Lubes and handgun velocities

[Curly James]

Okay, some of you wiser heads chime in here. I have been using the same .38 spl load for quite some time now, namely a Lee 160 grain rnfp, tumble lubed in JPW, 4.5 grains WW 231 and a WW SPP. This load is very accurate and has been giving an honest 810 fps from a four inch barrel. It also tended to shoot to point of aim in 38 cal fixed sight guns. This is my IDPA load, plinking load, woods walking load, etc. Last month, the night before a match, I walked into the loading room and realized I had used up my supply of the above load. (Gettin' old sucks, especially the not rememberin' stuff part). I had a small supply of cast, unsized, unlubed boolits, but did not have time to tumble lube them. I simply went to the Lyman and sized/lubed them with a homemade lube I have been using lately. Loaded up about 150 rounds on the Dillon and called it good. They worked fine and shot as well as my normal load. Now to the funny part. The other day I was trying out a new load and powder using the same boolit (tumble lubed with JPW) and while the new load did have some advantages (more economical, higher velocities) I wasn't convinced. There were a few rounds of the "emergency load" left in the range bag so I ran them over the chrony also. I was surprised to find that instead of the 810 fps I had been getting with my old load, they clocked in at an average of 903 fps. The only difference between my old reliable load and the Lyman lubed boolits was the lube. The lube in my Lyman lubrisizer was a mix of moly grease, beeswax, and parafin which I usually use for my "faster" cast boolit loads in my rifles and handguns. I am not surprised at a difference in velocity between lubes but 90 fps is somewhat significant to me in a 38 load. While I probably won't change from my old load I will try the new powder and load behind a moly/beeswax lubed boolit and see what the results are with velocity and accuracy. By the way, the new load is 3.8 grains of Hogdens Titegroup and did give about 40 more fps than WW 231. It might be interesting to see how the Titegroup does with the moly mix lube. Any ideas /comments guys, I know it wasn't very scientific but it is fun.

[357maximum]

You are surprised a real lube shoots faster than varnish ...why?:shock:


1. I would check your powder measure

2. You need more data (repeat the experiment in a controlled fasion)

3. Sounds like a good way to waste and afternoon to me :bigsmyl2:

[runfiverun]

the jpw is slippery stuff, i like to add some bees wax when i use it.
your boolits may have been slipping in the bbl some.
or just slipping outta the cases sooner and not building up the pressures.

[BABore]

It all depends on what makes you happy, accuracy wise and for convinence. If your looking for the most accurate load, and I'm talking one hole groups at 25 to 50 yards, then you treat lube just like you do powder. It's another variable to deal with. No one single lube is the absolute best for any given load, velocity, caliber, or otherwise. Same goes for alloy and any of the other variables involved. some look for "lack of leading" and call it good nuff. Myself and many others say BS!

[cajun shooter]

The lube is often over looked by many people. Also how much lube. Lube is just as important as powder, case, primer and so on. I myself have been guilty of using one lube for all. It's better to try something besides vanilla. I'm talking about accuracy loads not seven yard stuff, although the wrong lube here could and will produce leading.

[Curly James]

Nothing wrong with the powder measure, I always check before loading. And it could be a little more scientific so I will be setting up a little experiment soon.
Honestly though, I only use three lubes. Lee liquid alox, JPW, and that homemade stuff. The homemade stuff is there simply because it made so dang much. There is literally enough of that black stuff to last for years. Fortunately it works extraordinately well. None of the above lubes lead the bore as long as I stay within their respective limitations. The black homemade goop doesn't lead with rifle boolits at 2000 fps and surprisingly groups well in both rifle and handgun loads.
As far as 1 inch groups at 25 and 50 yards, jeez guys, I ain't that good with a four inch revolver. It was the amount that surprised me, 90 fps is, as I said, significant to me in a revolver. Maybe I am just simple minded but the only variable was the lube and I always thought the JPW did really well plus it allowed me to process a lot of boolits in a short time.
Has anyone else had similar experiences and just how much of a difference inn velocities did you have? The velocity is important mainly because I have to meet a certain power level in competition. We have an upcoming revolver match in which they will pull bullets and weigh them, chono loads, and weigh guns to ensure that the IDPA rules are being followed and the competition is fair and above board. I really don't see a problem with my loads but I have a feeling that some of the guys are going to be a little disapointed in their "magic" hardly any recoil" loads they currently compete with. And lets face it, a 160 grain soft lead boolit at 900 fps will handle most walking around duties. By the way, the power factor is computed by multiplying bullet weight and velocity. 125000 to meet the standards.

[44man]

Babore and Cajun are right on the money. Lube is as important as any other component. Some change all kinds of things with their loads and never test or change the lube.
Babore said it best---BS!

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!
I will agree with the lube variation. My 1893 made 1892 Winny SRC 44-40 will shoot a .433 220 grain (Saeco#443 about 40-1) right at 1 " less at 50 yarrds with a lube change. I was using LLA and it would run about 3-3 1/2 inches at 50 yards with 8 grains Unique. I then tried my home brew of 50-50 bearing grease and beeswax and the same load dropped to a constant 2" inches 50 yards... Sometimes much better but those may be me wobbling just right to throw the group into smaller clusters. I have also used a Parafin-bearing grease 50-50 mix which is near as good. One day I will run a test using Olive oil-beeswax 50/50... this mix works good with 2F whatever brand it is down here.
God Bless you all this New Year !

[MT Gianni]

Col. Harrison in Cast Bullets made note that the most accurate loads with a wadcutter frequently involve lubing only one groove with a good lube. Over lubing can diminish accuracy as well as inhibiting a burn that would add to your velocity. That is the beauty of our experiments.

[superior]

I'm gonna try synthetic axel grease and paraffin mix.

[bobthenailer]

i ran ito the velocity varation on a load i was useing for a 100 yard shoot the accuracy was the same but with zambeni red i got 67 fps higher velocity than the other lot lubed with lbt commercial . i rechecked those 2 loads by loading 2 test lots at the same time with everything else the same and chrono the loads this load would shoot a 25 shot group at 100yards of 2 1/4 inches out of my rpm xl in 357 mag