Sheep

[XBT]

Range maggots are now worth 1,300 each? I have a few in my field that are now up for sale.

Too bad there isn’t a train track nearby.

The Associated Press
SPANISH FORK -- Just eight sheep remain from a flock of 132 that was hit by a train after being chased to the tracks by a dog, the owners say.

Jim Jensen, one of four people who own the group of sheep, said 13 immediately survived the accident but five have since died, and, "There's a couple more of those -- two more at least -- that I'm not sure will make it."

The owners have been raising the registered Suffolk and Hampshire sheep for 20 years, entering them in livestock shows and selling them to 4-H and Future Farmers of America clubs.

It would cost up to $1,300 to replace each of the sheep, said Jensen, who works for Utah State University's extension service in Provo. The sheep, many of which were pregnant, were in a fenced area on Jensen's property on the night of the accident, he said. A dog owned by a resident in west Spanish Fork started to chase them.

To get away from the dog, the sheep ran through an electric fence, then onto nearby Union Pacific railroad tracks, where they were hit by a train.

The dog that chased the sheep was still in the area and police allowed the sheep owners to shoot it, Jensen said.

"You're responsible to take care of your own dog, to make sure it's tied or kenneled and not bother others," he said.

Questions remain about the liability. Jones blames both the dog owner and Union Pacific.

"It is their (Union Pacific's) responsibility to keep the tracks fenced and cattle guard in front of them," Jensen said.

A spokesman with the Omaha, Neb.-based railroad said the incident is under investigation.

"Typically, we do not have fences on our property," said Mark Davis, spokesman for Union Pacific. "Usually, responsibility for maintenance of these fences is that of the property owner."

[grumble]

That was one heckuva sheep dog! Imagine getting all those sheep lined up on the rails like that!

[KCSO]

In Nebraska you couldn't get $1300 if the cowboy was still attached. Those must have been some real special sheep.

[NVcurmudgeon]

I wonder if the kennel has any more of those dogs for sale.

[onceabull]

You guys are forgetting that these Utah sheep have a relationship with a University Emp.. and the UP will be considered to be a "deep Pockets" defendant..Onceabull

[Bret4207]

Anyone wanna come help me runu a spur from the CSX line to my back pasture?

[SharpsShooter]

Forget the lottery...Buy sheep!

[Scrounger]

Forget the lottery...Buy sheep!


A couple of board members here prefer to breed them...

[swheeler]

oh yes; Texas blondes- Houston hookers- Dallas debutants

[Johnch]

Sheep lie !! [smilie=l:

Johnch

[waksupi]

In Nebraska you couldn't get $1300 if the cowboy was still attached. Those must have been some real special sheep.

If they are attached, they aren't cowboys. They are sheep boys.

[versifier]

Up here, the owner of a dog that kills or "molests" (that's actually the legal term) any livestock is liable for triple damages to the owner. Young, purebred Hamp and Suffolk ewes from well known, proven flocks are easily worth up to $1000, especially if pregnant from a proven ram. With the rams, it depends on the age and how good his offspring have done in the show ring. They aren't little sheep, either. The rams can weigh over 300lbs, the ewes 170 and up. I don't think the prices are out of line, in fact, I think they got off easy by our standards - I'd have nailed the irresponsible SOB for at least $2500 each (plus court costs, vet bills, butcher bills for processing the carcasses, and my lawyer's fees) and THEN charged him a few hundred bucks more for both the labor and the emotional trauma for having to shoot and bury the dog, and the ammo and the labor of cleaning the gun after. If you gotta do it, do it up right.
Can you tell I've been there before? I didn't usually make out quite that well, mostly coyotes-with-collars (Shoot, Shovel and Shut up about it), but that case is public and well documented, and I can't help but cheer him on. I love dogs, more than I care for people (except for my kids, usually), but you have to be responsible for your dogs, and letting them off to run unsupervised is just not acceptable.
I don't know if I would hold the railroad liable, but the lawyers have got the bit in their teeth and the farmer's along for the ride now!

[wills]

http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE56/htm/56_02007.htm

http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE56/htm/56_02008.htm

http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE56/htm/56_02009.htm

http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE56/htm/56_02010.htm

http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE56/htm/56_02011.htm

http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE56/htm/56_01013.htm

http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE56/56_01.htm

[Shepherd2]

I don't think $1300 is enough for a good quality purebred animal especially a ewe (female). If you loose an animal that is 2 or 3 years old that will probably have twin lambs or better
every year until she was 10-12 years old or older you've lost a lot of income. Not every lamb is going be be a winner but many will be and the rest will still bring good money at the sale barn.

Here in Ohio we are only paid the fair market value for an animal that is killed or "molested" by coyotes or dogs. That value is determined by the county commissioners who probably call the county extension agent (a sheep owner in this county). I've had one commercial lamb killed by coyotes and I received the fair market value on my claim.

If I ever have a purebred animal killed by a coyote or dog I'm sure I'll have a fight on my hands. We've got a lot of years in those animals not to mention expense. I'll most likely have to get the lawyer involved (another sheep owner).

Just so you don't get me wrong, the sheep owner has to be responsible for safe guarding his animals too. I build fences that will keep my sheep and cattle in and hopefully predators out. We live in a coyote rich area and I run guard dogs with my purebred and commercial flocks. That ain't cheap. I also believe that adhereing to the 3 Ss (Shoot, Shovel and Shut Up) is a way of safeguarding my livestock.

[wills]

How much do you pay for an animal like that?


"Here in Ohio we are only paid the fair market value for an animal that is killed or "molested" by coyotes or dogs. " If your sheep is killed by coyotes, who pays you for it?

[Shepherd2]

Wills - It's hard to but a value on our purebred brood ewes. They are the ones that I think are worth more than $1300. I've got 15 years worth of work and expense in developing them. I'm not going to throw dollar amounts around but you can pay as much for a good ewe lamb as you might for a good heifer calf. If I loose a ewe that gives me a high percentage of good saleable ewe lambs we're out all the income from that ewe over her lifespan.

Who pays for the sheep killed by coyotes? The taxpayer, of course. Each county has a fund to pay for livestock killed by dogs and predators. Some of the county money comes from the sale of dog licenses, some from the state because the coyotes being wildlife belong to them and I think there may be some federal money in there too. The county basically pays based on the county dog warden's determination because in this county we all know the state wildlife officer is going to say the evidence in inconclusive. Been there. He's just a formality but you need his signature on a form to get paid. I do know they distinquish between dog and predator kills as far the payments go. Filing claims for coyote or dog kills is not how I like to sell sheep.

[floodgate]

A neighbor has a good-sized flock of Navajo-Churro sheep she shows and raises with her 4-H'ers for wool and pelts. She got a guard llama (a neutered male works best), and was wondering if it was really doing any good. Then one day she heard a commotion and went out to see a couple of the local "Houndsmen" (they "run" deer for sport) lifting a couple of Rottweilers or Pit Bulls (I fergit which) over the fence to "play" with the sheep. The llama woke from its doze, ran over, and with those BIG flat feet stomped one dog flat dead, and then kicked the other one back over the fence, about half-dead. The "houndsmen" started to raise a ruckus about her big brutal whatever-it-was killing their precious dogs. About then her husband came up with his 30&30 - he's an Apache, and looks it; they got VERY quiet, collected their dog carcasses and took off.

Around here, the law says if you have sheep and they are properly fenced, any dog on your land is dead meat if it is "molesting" your livestock (and YOUR word is good on that), and the deputies and wardens will back you up.

[Shepherd2]

Ohio is about the same as far as dogs molesting livestock goes. If the animals are where they are suppose to be and a dog comes along and agitates them in any way he's fair game.

I've heard a lot of good stories about llamas as guard animals but I've never had the urge to try them out. Guard dogs have worked very well for us.

[Ron]

The law over here is the same, any dog found bothering sheep or cattle is, if found by the land owner, liable to be on the receiving end of a 12 guage. Our good breeding sheep are of the Merino breed and sell for small fortunes here, aus$4000.00 and upwards.

Re the Lamas guarding sheep, I know of a farmer who uses Alpaca's for the same job. They are very good with dogs and foxes but don't get too close to them when they are upset, they spit like a camel, it stinks and they are very accurate with it as well.

Ron.

FESTINA LENTE

[Scrounger]

Not to mention any names, but I sure hope one of our friends from Texas is following this thread on Llamas and Alpacas, wouldn't want to see him get hurt... They can be mean SOBs and in addition to those feet, they have multiple sets of sharp teeth.

[wills]

www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=90228
Cheap Sheep

or

http://us.st11.yimg.com/store1.yimg.com/I/thegag_1878_14426750

[floodgate]

Another neighbor had a guard llama, and decided she wanted a couple of goats, so next season we gave her a pair of excess Nubian kids. They ran with the llama, and he taught them to spit; they couldn't hawk up a good 'un like he could, but they sure tried - was hilarious to watch!

floodgate

[wills]

It is remarkable that the legislature has authorized payment for sheep killed by Coyotes

[carpetman]

The Railroad is lucky it wasn't one of Waksupis favorite sheep. Can you imagine the added fees for what would it be called--emotional deprivation,I'm sure it would require extensive counselling by Dr Phil and who knows what else.

[Scrounger]

www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=90228
Cheap Sheep

CarpetMan has one of these as a hood ornament on his ATV...
or

http://us.st11.yimg.com/store1.yimg.com/I/thegag_1878_14426750
His favorite

[45 2.1]

Maybe thats not a hood ornament, perhaps it is the ATV.

[Scrounger]

Maybe thats not a hood ornament, perhaps it is the ATV.

In re-checking the picture, I see I was wrong. The sheep is riding the ATV with him. And she is sitting in front of him....

[wills]

The Railroad is lucky it wasn't one of Waksupis favorite sheep. Can you imagine the added fees for what would it be called--emotional deprivation,I'm sure it would require extensive counselling by Dr Phil and who knows what else.
It is called loss of consortium, though it is probably not an element of damages for the loss of a non human “companion”, but you never know. The law of other jurisdictions seems strange to me. I would have never imagined a jurisdiction that would pay a livestock producer for livestock lost to predators Apparently the folks up north are much more “fond” of their sheep.
Interesting reading to find the railroad in Utah is required to fence its right of way to keep stock out. Things are different here.
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/txconst/articles/cn001000.html
Article 10 - RAILROADS
Section 2 - PUBLIC HIGHWAYS; COMMON CARRIERS; REGULATION OF TARIFFS, CORRECTION OF ABUSES, AND PREVENTION OF DISCRIMINATION AND EXTORTION; MEANS AND AGENCIES
Railroads heretofore constructed or which may hereafter be constructed in this state are hereby declared public highways, and railroad companies, common carriers. The Legislature shall pass laws to regulate railroad, freight and passenger tariffs, to correct abuses and prevent unjust discrimination and extortion in the rates of freight and passenger tariffs on the different railroads in this state, and enforce the same by adequate penalties; and to the further accomplishment of these objects and purposes, may provide and establish all requisite means and agencies invested with such powers as may be deemed adequate and advisable. (Amended Nov. 4, 1890.)

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/AG/content/htm/ag.006.00.000143.00.htm#143.001.00


AGRICULTURE CODE

CHAPTER 143. FENCES[0]; RANGE RESTRICTIONS

SUBCHAPTER A. FENCING OF CULTIVATED LAND


§ 143.001. SUFFICIENT FENCE[0] REQUIRED. Except as provided by this chapter for an area in which a local option stock law[0] has been adopted, each gardener or farmer shall make a sufficient fence[0] around cleared land in cultivation that is at least five feet high and will prevent hogs from passing through.

Acts 1981, 67th Leg., p. 1339, ch. 388, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1981.


§ 143.102. RUNNING AT LARGE ON HIGHWAY PROHIBITED. A
person who owns or has responsibility for the control of a horse,
mule, donkey, cow, bull, steer, hog, sheep, or goat may not
knowingly permit the animal to traverse or roam at large,
unattended, on the right-of-way of a highway.

Acts 1981, 67th Leg., p. 1350, ch. 388, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1981.


§ 143.103. IMMUNITY FROM LIABILITY. A person whose
vehicle strikes, kills, injures, or damages an unattended animal
running at large on a highway is not liable for damages to the
animal except as a finding of:
(1) gross negligence in the operation of the vehicle;
or
(2) wilful intent to strike, kill, injure, or damage
the animal.

[357tex]

I find it strange that the public would have to make good a business loss.
Here in texas a coyote gets a calf it's my loss.
Dogs are something else if you can find who they belong to. I end up shooting lots of lose running pets or dumped out pets. People buy some kind of stock dog as a pet and let it run lose during the day while at work.It gets bored and goes rambling and decides to play with my cows.I have come up on a cow having a calf and it hanging out the back of her and dogs running her in a circle.Or it has a new calf and they just want to smell it or eat its dung and the poor mommy cow ends up steping on and killing the calf.Just because some fool don't keep his dog up.Wild hogs are a mess here and I kill ouite a few, but I don't kill as many of them as I do pets.357 is enought gun. Rant over. :violin:

[wills]

Being "fond" of their stock they seem to pay a lot for the animals.
I didnt see any $1,300 sheep
http://www.producersandcargile.com/marketreports.htm

[waksupi]

The Railroad is lucky it wasn't one of Waksupis favorite sheep. Can you imagine the added fees for what would it be called--emotional deprivation,I'm sure it would require extensive counselling by Dr Phil and who knows what else.

Ray, not only do I not have a favorite sheep, I don't own any sheep, and come to think of it, don't even know anyone around here that has any. The Texas market has been buying all of them up in the northwest, as soon as they become available. No demand for them, in these parts.

[onceabull]

USDA-ARS U.S. Sheep Experiment Station ,Dubois,Idaho.. one of the intermountain west's entertainment destinations..(Yeah,it's darn close to Montana)------- Onceabull

[Scrounger]

I find it strange that the public would have to make good a business loss.
Here in texas a coyote gets a calf it's my loss.
Dogs are something else if you can find who they belong to. I end up shooting lots of lose running pets or dumped out pets. People buy some kind of stock dog as a pet and let it run lose during the day while at work.It gets bored and goes rambling and decides to play with my cows.I have come up on a cow having a calf and it hanging out the back of her and dogs running her in a circle.Or it has a new calf and they just want to smell it or eat its dung and the poor mommy cow ends up steping on and killing the calf.Just because some fool don't keep his dog up.Wild hogs are a mess here and I kill ouite a few, but I don't kill as many of them as I do pets.357 is enought gun. Rant over. :violin:

That's almost as strange as the government paying farmers not to grow wheat. In one of these posts someone alluded to the fact that some of the elected/appointed officials were sheep owners. 'Nuff said.

[357tex]

Scrounger
You are right I over looked that.

[carpetman]

Wills---You are not familar with loss of consortium from an animal loss-- that's because you practice in Texas. Now if you were a Montana lawyer you would probably be most familar with that law.

[wills]

ferae naturae

I like this quote

“Presumably Nicholson chose to stay at the Choke Canyon RV park, as opposed to a hotel, in rural South Texas because he wanted to enjoy the natural environment. His injury, although tragic, was incident to his enjoyment of the natural land. Nature, in Texas, is a rich mixture. A great deal of it is compatible with human happiness and safety. But some is not. Nature is not tamed in Texas and those who seek the outdoors are exposed to its dangers. A good deal of the vegetation in Texas stings, sticks or stinks. Any number of insects and animals can hurt, or even kill you”

http://www.4thcoa.courts.state.tx.us/opinions/HTMLopinion.asp?OpinionID=7590