Lee Liquid Alox

[shepherddogs]

Just got through loading some wadcutters coated in liquid Alox. Let me say it was a real d--n mess. I think I got too much on them. The stuff comes out of the bottle like molasses or somthing so I cut the 2nd batch with mineral spirits. The cut batch was way neater than the first one but now I wonder if I have enough on the bullets. Is there some rule of thumb to go by? Is a very light laquer like coating enough? Just enough to give the bullets a tinge of yellow? If I give up on the LLA and get a lubricator sizer, can I still use the TumbleLube molds? Thanks for any advice.

[Lead melter]

Well, there are several ways to look at it. I cut my alox 50/50 with mineral spirits and apply several coats with dry time between. Ranch Dog (another forum member and boolit designer) dips his slugs in the stuff full strength. Other folks here use just about any alox/mineral spirits proportion that can be named. What works for one might work for another if we tried it.
Fact is, a light coat like a varnish is probably good enough for low velocity (38 Special) rounds, while more is needed for higher speed. RD likes to really sling his slugs and needs a bit more than a boolit at 1200-1400 fps.
Try the LLA as is, then try using different amounts and see how your results are. Some love it, some hate it, but it works for a lot of us.

If you do the lubrisizer thing, there is no law stopping you from using the TL Lee molds. Ranch Dog molds have lube grooves very similar to the Lee factory TL molds.

Good luck, and welcome to the forum!

[shooting on a shoestring]

I'll add that I bought a toaster oven at a Goodwill store to cut the dry time on LLA to about 10 to 15 minutes.

I also find that toasting boolits after they have been water quenched is a quick way to dry them. Of course I don't heat them enough to change their hardness, just to assist the water in evaporating.

I've also gone to lightly coating all my rifle boolits with a thin mixture of LLA and mineral spirits, then gas checking and lubing in my Lyman 45. The LLA is actually a corrsion inhibitor that just so happens to double as a boolit lube. Some of my rifle rounds started showing some oxidation on the boolits. The LLA eliminates that.

By the way welcome.

[HotLead]

I've been using the Lee Liquid Alox for several years on all my home-made boolits, both TL and conventional designs, and I also coat the ready-mades I buy that are already conventionally lubed. LLA seems to vary in viscosity depending on how long it's been on the dealer's shelf.

When necessary, I thin it with mineral spirits to about the same consistency as Karo dark syrup for the first go-round. It doesn't take much! I use a square Glad plastic container, and only do a single layer at a time. Roll 'em around until they're coated evenly, and set 'em upright on waxed paper until they dry. I don't mind a thick coat, because when I shove 'em through a Lee sizer, the excess gets pushed into the grooves. Even after going through the sizer, you can still feel a trace amount of LLA on the bands.

After sizing, I usually give 'em a second thin coat with thinned-out LLA. All that's needed is a very thin, yellowish coating on the bands. This very thin coating is what I also give to all the ready-mades I buy.

Round-nose boolits allow the LLA to run down just fine, but flat-nose boolits need to have their noses blotted dry. If you don't, the LLA will puddle and dry on them, and then it will gradually build up on your bullet seater and screw up your seating depths.

If I'm going to carry rounds in my pocket, I first wash off the LLA with laquer thinner so pocket lint and dirt don't stick to the exposed boolits. Mineral spirits takes too long to dry, and I don't want it creeping down into the cartridge. If I'm loading from the box at the range, I don't bother washing it off. Roll crimping does squeeze LLA out of the groove of heavily coated bullets, and needs to be cleaned off before sticking 'em in your wheelgun.

[HotLead]

I guess we never really answered shepherddogs' question about the very thin laquer-like coating. Yes, that's all that is really needed. I just like the extra, is all. I've shot lots of very, very thinly-coated boolits, and I've had nary a problem with leading.

[shepherddogs]

Thanks for the replies. Just for kicks, what would happen if you shot 38 wadcutters made from straight WWs at around 900 fps with NO lube. Mild leading or no? High pressure?

[Three44s]

A big welcome Shepherddogs!!

A big lead mess ........ to answer your latest question.

I use LLA thinned with mineral spirits ...... and yes, all that's needed is a thin "yellow" layer.

But I prefer to run my slugs as cast and lube and dry them twice with the mineral spirit thinned LLA ..... base first on wax paper ....... 24hours in warm weather .........

And I have one other wild idea with LLA ........ sometimes between LLA treatments .... I run them into a zip lock bag with a bit of powdered Moly (like a shake and bake treatment for your steaks etc.) ..........

NOW that makes yer mitts very black ........... but it all washes off ........... and that which does not ........

WEARS OFF!!! ............ LOL!!

Three 44s

[azrednek]

If I give up on the LLA and get a lubricator sizer, can I still use the TumbleLube molds? Thanks for any advice.

A quick answer to your question is yes. I've lubed tumble lube style boolits both conventionally with a lubricator-sizer and LLA. I did see a very slight improvement in accuracy with the Lee TL style 148 gr double end wad cutter using the LLA compared to those that were lubed with a hard lube. Other 38 cal and 45 TL style boolits I couldn't see a difference on paper between the two lubes.

[shotman]

If you heat it it works better not sticky. rick

[waksupi]

Oh, yeah, I think you may get some mild leading................

[crabo]

I put the boolits in a ziplock bag, pour in a little LLA, remove most of the air and roll them around. I spread out a piece of wax paper and then stand them up on their bases.

I try to do it after my wife goes to bed, or is gone. I have been banished to the garage for the next time I do it.

[DLCTEX]

I use a thinned coat of LLA and then a coat of Johnson's paste wax. The JPW dries to a harder coat and is much neater/cleaner to handle. Got this tip from board members and like it. Works on regular lube groove boolits also.

[buffdriver]

I am new to casting and have tried some experiments with LLA. "Thin" is a relative term, and my first batch of 50 (unsized, by the way) leaded badly in my 1911.

For my next batch, I applied a second, heavier coating of LLA. I would say that in both cases, I have thinned it by 10% with mineral spirits, and also heated the bottle in a sink of hot water. It was very easy to apply. This time, I had no leading whatsoever!

To further the experiment, I did a batch of 50 using Rooster Jacket paper patch and bullet lube. It dries hard and clear, but it's really slimy when tumbling the bullets. It also doesn't smell as good as LLA. :-D

My next batch will be sized with my Lee .452 sizer. Not certain whether I will apply a final coat of LLA after the sizing.

The experiments continue!

Regards,

BuffDriver

[shepherddogs]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm gonna lube em lightly and keep em under about 925 fps. If they lead up my barrels I guess I'll be in the market for a sizer luber. A heavy coat of LLA is just too messy. I let em sit for over a week and they were still like chewing gum on Texas asphalt.

[Lead melter]

My next batch will be sized with my Lee .452 sizer. Not certain whether I will apply a final coat of LLA after the sizing.

The experiments continue!

Regards,

BuffDriver

Never one to stop experiments, but experience has shown that a second coat of LLA after sizing is just about mandatory.Try some with and without a 2nd coat and see how it works for you.

By the way, welcome to the forum. Pull up a log and sit down by the fire.:drinks:

[Sprue]

When I used to use LLA here's the procedure that that was best suited for me.

Place entire alox bottle under hot running water till thinned. Shaking the bottle during heating will tell you when its thin enough.

In a salad sized plastic bowl I dumped in approx 200 boolits. Then put about 12-15 drops of alox. Shake, twirl and spin (for a couple mins) the boolits till they are coated.

Next I dumped them into a pan or another bowl and let them lay (untouched) for 24 hrs. In that 24 hr period I would agitate them every now and then, again without touching them.

Once dried, they will always be semi tacky but nothing to fuss about.

I never considered alox as being messy.

Now backing up a bit, if you are going to size the boolits (Lee sizer) before giving them a coat of alox here is what I did.

If you have say 200 boolits cast and ready for sizing just place them in a bowl or pan and take them to your sizing station. Prior to sizing them I would give them a squirt of wd40 to act as lubrication just to run the m through the sizer. Once you have them all sized I used the method described above. You can judge by feel, when you need to give them a shot of wd.

I eventually moved on to a Luber/sizer. Later on I tried a batch of Felix Lube and have been using it ever since on all my pistol loads.

My two....


http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh266/spilihp_2007/IMG_1980.jpg

[Russel Nash]

I've heard that you can tumble the bullets or the loaded rounds in baby powder and that makes the stickiness go away.

[Junior1942]

I always use two coats of LLA. First on the as-cast bullets. Then sizing. Then again on the sized bullets. For much faster drying, put the lubed bullets in front of a fan. I took my Lyman 450 sizer-lubricator off my bench when I discovered LLA and Lee push-through sizers. (Nope, it ain't for sale.)

[Tom W.]

That stuff never really dries. I have coated the bullets with Midway Mica to keep them from sticking....I use a lot of LLA,and I bought one containet of the Mica Waaaaay back years ago when. Probably haven't used a teaspoon full yet.

[Gohon]

Never one to stop experiments, but experience has shown that a second coat of LLA after sizing is just about mandatory.

Good reason for that............ regular lubed slugs have lube completely filling the lube grooves. LLA will not fill the grooves full. Upon firing a regular lubed slug the upset will squeeze some of the lube out as it goes down the barrel. That will not happen with a LLA slug so yes, a second coat is mandatory.

I take one of these plastic containers that coffee comes in, fill it to withing about a 1/2 of the top with hot water, drop the bottle of LLA into it and snap the cover back on. In about 10-15 minutes the LLA will be as thin as running water. Just leave it in the coffee container until ready to use. Better than wasting hot water in the sink running over the bottle.

[wiljen]

A second coat is required unless you are shooting as cast. I find that for bullets I don't run through a size die, a second coat is not needed if the first coat is applied fairly liberally.

[NSP64]

It depends on the application. I size then lube with 90% LLA.(10% minerals spirit). One coat if pistol, two if rifle. All of my molds are standard grease groove, not TL.

[Recluse]

I have used an LLA mix for years with outstanding results. The key is patience. Not in how long you wait for the boolits to dry, but in how many boolits you try to lube at a time.

Most new casters it seems try to tumble lube their entire casting session in one tumble. Maybe some can do it successfully, but I know I've never been able to. All that results is one huge sticky mess that I end up remelting and recasting.

Instead, I take one of those margerine containers like country crock and fill the bottom with just one layer of cast boolits. Maybe a few on top of each other, but mainly just one layer. I then apply the LLA mixture by squirting a very thin "N" on the boolits. Tumble and swirl. Tumble and swirl. Tumble and swirl. Pour out on wax paper covered cookie sheet and repeat with new batch. Some like to stand their boolits on their butts, but not me. Only boolits I do that for are rifle boolits.

After first batch of tumbled boolits have dried, I run them through the push sizer. Then I repeat the tumble lube process. Yeah it take a couple of days, but result is boolits that are not sticky, have incredible accuracy (if you do the rest of your reloading and shooting right), have never leaded on me (if they are correct size to match the barrel grooves) and leave the barrel clean.

Mixture I use is to start off with a dollop of Johnson Paste Wax and melt it down at around 300 degrees in an aluminum pot. After it is melted I let it cook for about fifteen minutes, then add anough Lee Liquid Alox to turn the mixture the color of the LLA which is a dark brown. I continue to stir and cook the mixture, but have reduced the heat on the hot plate to Warm. As the mixture cools, I add just a splash of mineral spirits so that it will not dry hard or semi-solid when in cold temperatures. I then pour the mixture through a funnel into an old LLA bottle and label it. I use a toothpick to clear out the spout before use. Trick is to squirt a very light "N" on the layer of boolits being tumbled. Too much and you will have a sticky globby mess guaranteed.

First few times I cast and use LLA, I had a heckuva globby mess, gooped up seating dies and upset shooters at the range next to me because of all the smoke. Now days I have no glob, no mess, no gooped up seating dies and the shooters next to me at ranges have more smoke than I do while I just have better accuracy.:Fire: