Off-centered "nipples" from sprue holes. Will this affect accuracy?

[Airweight38]

So I have this old single-cavity Lee aluminum mold for pouring .358 160gr DEWCs. It was my Dad's and to the best of my knowledge, the last time it was used was about 30 years ago. It looks pretty clean, but when the sprue plate is closed, it's hole is off-centered.

Anyway, I poured a little over 500 DEWCs with this guy and I was getting ready to lube and size them when I noticed that several (~40%) have little nipples sticking up from the sprue hole. We're talking maybe 1/16", but well off-centered. Will this affect the accuracy of this round enough to worry about (I target practice @ 50'). How worried do I need to be about this? Obviously, I don't need 1" groups at 1000 yards, but still, I don't want rocks, either.

When I was pouring, I tried making a conscious effort to eliminate these. 60% of the time, I was able to knock it off clean with the sprue plate. I tried hitting it later, and earlier, thinking the curing of the Pb might be key, but I couldn't do it with enough consistency to establish rhyme or reason.

This wouldn't be much of an issue, if I could at least get these to occur on the center of the bullet, which brings me to mold cleanliness, I guess, since maybe the sprue plate will probably center better if the mold is cleaner and closed tighter (though I really don't have much of a seam). I tried knocking some of the junk off of the mold with a brass toothbrush. That seemed to help, but I read in a thread on here something about boiling them in soapy water? Does this work? And what kind of soap should I use?

Lots of questions, sorry for rambling. But mostly I want to know:

1) How much these will affect accuracy, if at all, and:

2) What's the best way to clean the mold. If boiling in soapy water really works, what kind of soap should I use.

and finally,

3) Any other advice?

Thanks in advance for any help!

/Jason

[docone31]

You know, I bet when you size them, those Nipples go away.
If not, there won't be that much left over.
I bet the load does not notice it.

[Airweight38]

Trouble is, they are on the end of the bullet...since the sizing only does the sides, I don't think they'll go away...

[RayinNH]

Airweight, I think what is infered is that the top punch will push the nipples in...Ray

[montana_charlie]

which brings me to mold cleanliness, I guess, since maybe the sprue plate will probably center better if the mold is cleaner and closed tighter (though I really don't have much of a seam). I tried knocking some of the junk off of the mold with a brass toothbrush.
It sounds like there was a lot...and you took off part of it.
A mould is either clean...or it isn't.

That seemed to help, but I read in a thread on here something about boiling them in soapy water? Does this work? And what kind of soap should I use?
Boiling on soapy water is good for removing oil...placed on the mould by the factory, or to prevent corrosion between uses.

If you have a build-up of 'crusty stuff' it is probably from burnt-on wax...not uncommon when a caster thinks wax should work on a bullet mould because it works in bullet lube.

You probably need a solvent, combined with elbow grease, to dissolve that stuff and get it off.
CM

[Airweight38]

I think these are substantial enough that they won't easily smash... See attachment.

[docone31]

WT heck?
I can see where a sizer will not mash them down.
Diagnosis time.
It looks like the sprue plate might be a touch high?

[Airweight38]

I thought the same thing, but I don't have any flashing around the bottoms...I've taken the plate off and cleaned both it and the top of the mold with a brass wire brush. I only have build-up around the sprue hole... it's just like it's curing too fast to knock off clean?

[RayinNH]

Wow! Assuming your mold doesn't have lead clinging to the sides preventing sprue plate closing, I would file some of the metal off of the sprue plate ear that acts as a stop. File until sprue hole is centered over cavity. If this is the original sprue plate it must have gotten by QC...Ray

[jhrosier]

Two choices:

Lead is recyclable, melt them , fix the mould and try again.

Point the defect to the muzzle and load them. They will probably shoot well. Defects on boolit noses have very little effect on accuracy.

Jack

[runfiverun]

those aren't off center those are off boolit.
your sprue cutter is either not closing enough or too much.

[docone31]

Just cast them the other way. That way the sprue will be on top.

[snuffy]

A touch high? Maybe, but how that mold even filled out that well with the sprue hole that far off center? I wonder if the bend in the edge of the sprue plate is somehow off, not hitting the mold block soon enough, going past center.

If you load that sprue to the front, it shouldn't make much difference @ 50 ft. Much past that, it could be enough off balance to make them wobble. By no means should it be loaded base down. That would surely affect the base enough to leave the barrel with a wobble. The base of a boolit needs to be near perfect, no nicks, cuts, or off center sprues.

[Bret4207]

You need to dress your sprue plate flat and sharp. Then you need to make sure it's laying flat on the mould top. Then if you want adjust the stop so the hole is centered. I'd also try the BruceB cooling method where you touch the sprue to a damp rag. I find with a sharp sprue plate and level blocks this gets rid of lumps and holes.

An off center sprue on it's own doesn't affect a boolit much at all in most cases. I have purposely cast with the sprue off center on some small diameter woulds as recommended many years ago in Handloader and found no ill effects.

[Junior1942]

those aren't off center those are off boolit.
your sprue cutter is either not closing enough or too much.+1 on a sprue cutter problem.

[montana_charlie]

Holy Crap!
If that is the sprue plate which is supposed to be on that mould, something is seriously wrong.

Where does the sprue 'nipple' appear on the bullet in relation to the seam?
If it is 'on the seam', the sprue plate is too long, or too short.
(distance between the hole and the pivot screw)

If the nipples are on 'one side' of the bullet, the plate is not closing to the right point.
Would you need to close the plate more to center the hole...or not close it so far?

CM

[Echo]

What they said...

[MT Gianni]

I would mike the bullets to see if you have a mold closing problem. I think it is sprue plate as others have said and if they measure .357-.360 that will bring it out.

[grouch]

Try cutting the sprue with a gloved hand or pot holder to see if that helps the lump. It won't centre the cut but may reduce the lump.

[Airweight38]

So I got my mold out and started taking a really good look at it. There was a tab that bent down on the sprue plate that stopped against the side of the mold. I was thinking about bending it out farther so that the sprue plate could pivot further, in order to align the hole, but it was already hitting almost on the corner of the mold block.

Which is when I decided to turn it the *other* way and it laid perfectly flat against the side of the mold block, causing the sprue hole to perfectly center over the cavity. :holysheep

My mold block was in backwards, and since this was my first cast, I didn't know any better.

I am officially retarded.

Sorry for wasting you guys' time. [smilie=s: I'll go crawl under a rock now.

[docone31]

You now belong to the club!
Welcome.
Like, I never did stuff like that.

[jhrosier]

....

My mold block was in backwards, and since this was my first cast, I didn't know any better.
.....

Experience is what you get when you don't get what you expected.:bigsmyl2:


The best part of doing dumb stuff is that you don't have to worry about hurting anyone's feelings when you laugh at yourself.

There used to be a thread around here somewhere about all of the dumb things that we have done (and admit to), but some dummy lost it.

Trust me, you are in very good company here.:oops:

In case nobody mentioned it, If you wear a glove and cut the sprue by hand, remember to put it back on after you answer the phone. Don't ask me how I know.


Jack

[Airweight38]

This is the first time I've seen mentioned cutting the sprue by hand. Everything I've read so far indicates that I should use a hardwood tool handle to smack it open.

Why would I want to wear a glove and do it by hand? Is it easier on the mold?

[mainiac]

I have done some stupid things that you wouldnt beleave,such as,,,,,,,,,,naw, I aint admittin to nuthin!

[jhrosier]

......
Why would I want to wear a glove and do it by hand? Is it easier on the mold?

I've always felt that not hitting the mould would help it last longer.
It seems that it might eventually loosen things up.
It works well with 1 or 2 cavity moulds for me but the big old lyman 4 cavity moulds need a tap to break the sprue furthest from the hinge.
The glove also keeps the occasional splatters off the skin so I use it even with the 4 cavity moulds.

Jack

[DLCTEX]

I have a mold that lets the sprue plate ride up and leave a bump. If I tighten the plate any tighter, it binds. I open the sprue cutter with a gloved hand and by applying downward pressure the bump is eliminated.

[Boerrancher]

My mold block was in backwards, and since this was my first cast, I didn't know any better.

I am officially retarded.

Sorry for wasting you guys' time. [smilie=s: I'll go crawl under a rock now.

Since it was your first cast you didn't know better so that one just gets chalked up to lack of experience, and I am sure you will probably not make the same mistake again, and if you do, you will know how to fix it right off the bat. As far as wasting anyone's time, most of us are here to learn something new while we kill time, so nothing was wasted. Besides, I am sure most others here are like me, I enjoy a good mystery.

As far as being , "officially retarded." If you search some of the threads I have started you will see some of the boneheaded stuff I have done, and I have been casting, handloading, and shooting for over 30 years. When you have been casting for 30 years and do this, same thing again then you can officially declare yourself retarded.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[docone31]

You mean, same things twice, expecting different results?
Been there, done that, wore the T-shirt, ripped it, tossed it, got it out an wore it again!
You, and no one else has wasted my time.
I use the forum as a break from my shop work, casting break, and in general having someone else to talk to besides my wife. She has a life also.
You sure did not waste my time.

[montana_charlie]

So I have this old single-cavity Lee aluminum mold for pouring .358 160gr DEWCs.

Anyway, I poured a little over 500 DEWCs
So now that you have reversed whatever it was that was backward, inside out, or upside down...you have 500 DEWCs to do over...huh?

And...Yes, Grasshopper. They DO need to be redone...

CM

[shotman]

OK this time

[Phil]

Before scrapping them, I'd load twenty or so with the sprue UP, and shoot them. At fifty feet I don't think you will be able to tell a difference unless you are a championship class shot.

Cheers,

Phil

[Bret4207]

You're going to have to try a lot harder than that to get the "retarded" title! It's just the learning phase. Instead of looking at it as a dumb mistake, take comfort in the fact YOU figured it out!

[T-Bird]

LoL I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that does stuff like that. Shoot straight, T-Bird

[Willbird]

I have seen sprue plates made intentionally so the sprue was over very close to the OD of the bullet, and I have placed the plate by hand so that they will come out that way, some people feel the off center position allows a smaller sprue hole. From a Ransom rest with a pistol that would shoot 1.5" groups at fifty yards I could not attribute any accuracy loss or gain to an off center sprue. My sprues were flush however, not sticking up.

Bill

[DLCTEX]

Airweight: I like to use gloves (heavy leather) when molding boolits. By cutting the sprue with my hand, rather than hitting it with a club or mallet, I get a better feel of how the sprue is cutting. This helps with timing the cut and saves the molds from abuse. A hard cut is easily made by grabbing the mold and using the heel of the hand to push against the sprue plate. This does not transmit the heat through if done quickly, even if running the mold very hot. I preheat the mold so even the first sprues are easily cut. DALE

[missionary5155]

Good morning Hey do not beat yourself up to badly ! There are several threads about this sight that deal with "Dumb" things we all have done at one time or another. That is what learnng is al about.....
GOD BLESS YOU THIS COMING NEW YEAR !

[leftiye]

Naw, don't worry, there's even better snafus comin' down the road.

[Airweight38]

LOL I can't wait! :shock:

[OBXPilgrim]

My mold block was in backwards, and since this was my first cast, I didn't know any better.

I am officially retarded.

[smilie=s: I'll go crawl under a rock now.

Way to hard on yourself - actually I think you've found the holy grail of the casting world.

Seldom talked about except in hushed voices in the back of gun shops & between strings of rifle matches, it appears you have accidentally happened upon the ultra rare mold modifications of the Asperly Aimless.

Since your post count shows you to be fairly new to the forum, I'll post the link to a wealth of knowledge that has inspired dozens at this site.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=19413&highlight=Aimless

I think the mods you made would make the story complete :kidding:

[jhrosier]

... a wealth of knowledge that has inspired dozens at this site....

I'm still having bad dreams and it's been over a year since I read that.:veryconfu

Jack

[Phil]

Yes, I should have seen that sooner. That modification was made to the Asperly by none other than Harlow Parkenfarker. May he rest in piece.

Cheers,

Phil

[Dale53]

Airweight38;
Actually, by "manning up" and telling us what the problem really is maybe one or two of us also learned something. There is NOTHING wrong with making a mistake - it's only when you continue to do the same thing wrong that it becomes "retarded":veryconfu.

Welcome to the club:mrgreen:

Dale53

[leftiye]

A little salt maybe?