Cast Boolits for auto loaders

[prs]

I have not cast lead boolits for auto loaders. Is there anything different or any special techniques for casting, sizing or lubing such to avoid leading or other problems in the common Glock or Colt 45 auto loaders? I was figuring n plain ww alloy at .452 and tumble lubed.

prs

[docone31]

When I load for my .45ACP, or 9mm., I try them slowly. I fit several to make sure they cycle from the mag to the chamber.
I also look at the depth of the powder vs the boolitt base, I load the 200gn RF Lee. I have not had any issues with that one, seems to be the most forgiving. The 9mm., I load the TC casting. It is a little pickier. I had to play with that one.
Other wise, it has been fairly simple for me. I have fired thousands of rounds with the .45ACP with only an handful of hangups, all in my wife's PT 1911.

[copdills]

+1 for what docone31 stated and I used a taper crimp on all my auto calibers and have no problem with the rds chambering

[Reddot]

Since I'm a newbie myself some of the anacronims are confusing. What is TC casting? I'm loading for a Glock 19 and a Keltec Sub2000.

[docone31]

Ah, TC is Truncated Cone. Personally, I like the design.

[prs]

Is there any unusual barrel leading issue with auto loaders and cast boolits? I am well aware that all copper traces should be cleaned before shooting lead alloy. It was suggested to me that the button rifeling in the auto loader barrels did not agee with lead boolits. That struck me as very odd and probably mis-information. Whatchathink?

prs

[crabo]

I always make up some dummy rounds without primers and powders. I can then cycle them through the gun, make sure they feed, and not worry about them going bang. A bang in the house is not a good thing.

You can make sure you don't size them too large to chamber, or seated too long to feed through the magazine.

[docone31]

It is about sizing, and lube. I doubt you can exceed the VNE of the casting.
Sizing.

[Clark Savage Jr]

Is there any unusual barrel leading issue with auto loaders and cast boolits? I am well aware that all copper traces should be cleaned before shooting lead alloy. It was suggested to me that the button rifeling in the auto loader barrels did not agee with lead boolits. That struck me as very odd and probably mis-information. Whatchathink?

prs

I have fired hundreds of WW boolits through my early Detonics Combatmaster with never a trace of leading. Recently, I got a new Detonics 9-11-01. I figured to break the barrel in easy by starting off with mid-load LRN (lead round nose). After fifty rounds I looked at the barrel. It looked like the interior of a limestone cave!

That night I scrubbed lead until I was pooped. I probably should have just waited until my next trip to the range and fired a box of jacketed rounds to clear out the leading.

So, I think it depends on the smoothness of the barrel. An older barrel that is shot in well might digest WW boolits better than a new one that still has tool marks. Then again, I might be all wet. In that case, never mind. . . [smilie=1:

[Shooter6br]

I load for my 45acp AMT gov Model. I use a Lee Round nose 230 grainer. Two things you need. One a case gage I use a Dillion. Number 2 a Lee crimp die. It re sizes the loaded round. I never have any failures

[yondering]

It re sizes the loaded round. I never have any failures

What's up with that Lee die? I've seen those before, and it doesn't make sense to me. If the case is sized correctly in the first place, and the boolit isn't oversized, there's no need to size the loaded round. Also, since brass has more "spring" than lead, I would expect that sizing a loaded round would reduce case tension on the boolit, which is a bad thing.

[Winger Ed.]

I'm not real familiar with Lee molds & stuff, but I would think that #2 die does the job of a taper crimp die and finishes ironing out any bulge from a roll crimp (long case), or the remainder of a flair left by the mouth flaring die (short case).

..

I've loaded & shot several thousand of that squatty looking, rounded nose, 190 gr. RCBS
and the TC cone Lee 200gr. target bullets. They both do real, real well.

I've changed to a 11 or 12 pound spring in order to use them in a Colt 1911.
These things aren't powerful enough to cycle a .45 with the full pressure main spring made for 230 grain factory ammo.
I figure, 'Its a piece of paper, how hard do ya need to hit it for the bullet to make a hole all the way through'?
I keep reducing my target loads until they almost always cycle the action, them bump it up about 1 grain.
Not much recoil, almost no wear & tear on the pistol, and they are very, very accurate.

For the .45, I've ended up with 6 grains of Unique, and for lube- its all the old crayons & candles I can find.
Melt the mess in a old pot and thin it with axle grease to get it it 'just right'.
I don't try to mold it into sticks for the lubepress.
While sizing, when the lube runs out, I just take off the top cap, and pour in some more.

[prs]

I just discussed these responses with the Pard who mentined teh leading problems. He is not going by first hand information, but he is of the understanding that excessive leading with cast boolits is a very limiting factor with Glock and H.K barrels that have "polygonal rifling". As best as I can tell from his desctription that is a type of riflilng that is not cut, but rather formed with a drawn button or formed by forging onto a mandrel and is a smooth pattern of twist. I am not familiar with any of that detail. I figure with Felix lube or/and tumble lube plus good boolit fit and reasonable velocity, the leading should be well controlled -- then again, auto loaders are not my typical "bag" ( I prefer revlvers and mostly with black powder) -- I only own one, a Glock 23 compact that I do not shoot well with and thus its a "safe dweller". But I figure if I cast for it and shoot it enough, I can conquer its odd to me POA/POI and such.

prs

[deltaenterprizes]

What's up with that Lee die? I've seen those before, and it doesn't make sense to me. If the case is sized correctly in the first place, and the boolit isn't oversized, there's no need to size the loaded round. Also, since brass has more "spring" than lead, I would expect that sizing a loaded round would reduce case tension on the boolit, which is a bad thing.

You are 100% correct! I have seen bullets that will spin inside the case after using one of those dies.

[billyb]

Is there any unusual barrel leading issue with auto loaders and cast boolits? I am well aware that all copper traces should be cleaned before shooting lead alloy. It was suggested to me that the button rifeling in the auto loader barrels did not agee with lead boolits. That struck me as very odd and probably mis-information. Whatchathink?

prs

I have been shooting lead boolits in semi-autos for 30+ years with no problems. PRS auto's have shallow rifleing and one school of thought is you need a harder boolit to hold in the shallow rifleing. I have not found it necessary to have harder boolits. I use a close alloy to #2. Glock says not to use cast in thier guns,some people do with no problems. I use after market barrels in my 9mm,and 40 glocks. Bill

[KYCaster]

I just discussed these responses with the Pard who mentined teh leading problems. He is not going by first hand information, but he is of the understanding that excessive leading with cast boolits is a very limiting factor with Glock and H.K barrels that have "polygonal rifling". As best as I can tell from his desctription that is a type of riflilng that is not cut, but rather formed with a drawn button or formed by forging onto a mandrel and is a smooth pattern of twist. I am not familiar with any of that detail. I figure with Felix lube or/and tumble lube plus good boolit fit and reasonable velocity, the leading should be well controlled -- then again, auto loaders are not my typical "bag" ( I prefer revlvers and mostly with black powder) -- I only own one, a Glock 23 compact that I do not shoot well with and thus its a "safe dweller". But I figure if I cast for it and shoot it enough, I can conquer its odd to me POA/POI and such.

prs




prs, check out the "The truth about Glock and cast" sticky in the "Wheelguns Pistols and Handcannons" section here. It covers the subject pretty well.

Bottom line is Glock has a problem with unsupported chamber, generous chamber dimensions and "firing out of battery". It happens with jacketed as well as lead. The problem is compounded by reloads that leave lube and lead residue in the chamber to prevent fully chambering.

Jerry

[prs]

Thanks guys! Y'all be a great resorce. Jerry, I am on my way to check out the info you suggested.

prs

[Ozarki]

I have been shooting lead in autoloaders for years. My wife decided she wanted a glock #43After several rounds of lead its polygonal rifling was so messed up it took several hours of scrubbing to get it out. I put a Lone Wolf barrel in it and all the problens went away.

[medicstimpy]

I don't own a Glock so can't say from experience. I have several friends who are split 50/50 on the firing lead out of the Polygonal barrel. I guess it depends on their alloy and lube and load for the 50% who have good results.

Basically the only semi-auto that you definately cannot shoot lead out of is the Desert Eagle 44 and 50. Both because of the polygonal barrel and the gas ports. I have tried some LSWC in my DE44 and was amazed with the accuracy with the extremely hot load for a lead bullet. Because of the nature of the round and pressures involved, I decided just to play it safe and shoot only copper plated or jacketed through this gun.

Same as the AR. People are always saying, don't shoot lead out of an AR but a couple thousand rounds later and still no problems or lead fouling of the gas system.

[superior]

Am I missing something here? I was always under the impression that a straight wall case, rimless cartridge should never be crimped as it headspaces on the case mouth. Am I wrong?

[yondering]

Am I missing something here? I was always under the impression that a straight wall case, rimless cartridge should never be crimped as it headspaces on the case mouth. Am I wrong?

They should never be roll crimped. They do use a taper crimp, in most cases.

Edit: The exception to this would be revolvers using moon clips for headspace, instead of the case mouth. Those cartridges can use a roll crimp.

[medicstimpy]

Am I missing something here? I was always under the impression that a straight wall case, rimless cartridge should never be crimped as it headspaces on the case mouth. Am I wrong?

Depends on the gun. My 1911's function fine with just the bullet seater die and no taper crimp. For my XD45 and LSWC boolits, it has to be taper crimped ever so slightly to be able to feed the LSWC's. So I just crimp all my 45's.

9mm I taper crimp them all, again so as to guarantee feeding in all the different types of 9mm firearms I shoot.

As the other user mentioned, this is a TAPER crimp, not a ROLL crimp as used with revolver and lever action cartridges and loads.

Hope that helps.

[Hipshot]

SHOOTING RELOADS IN A GLOCK WILL VOID THE WARRANTEE !---------The bottom of the case head is unsupported which can lead to case head seperation, thus blowing up the gun or at least blowing the magazine (clip) out the bottom of the gun !

SHOOTING CAST BULLETS IN A GLOCK WILL VOID THE WARRANTEE !-------For reasons I don't understand, because I never tried it, lead will build up on the polygonal rifleing and eventually lead to increased pressure leading to the above mentioned problems !

Read the warrantee card that came with the gun !!!

Hipshot

[defib]

SHOOTING RELOADS IN A GLOCK WILL VOID THE WARRANTEE !---------The bottom of the case head is unsupported which can lead to case head seperation, thus blowing up the gun or at least blowing the magazine (clip) out the bottom of the gun !

SHOOTING CAST BULLETS IN A GLOCK WILL VOID THE WARRANTEE !-------For reasons I don't understand, because I never tried it, lead will build up on the polygonal rifleing and eventually lead to increased pressure leading to the above mentioned problems !


Ok I didn't get a warranty, I bought my glock used . lots of manufacturers will void a warranty if reloads are used. My question is can cast boolits be used in a glock 40cal if you keep it clean of lead buildup? I've heard yes and no.

[jhrosier]

..... My question is can cast boolits be used in a glock 40cal if you keep it clean of lead buildup? I've heard yes and no.
The answer is, "Yes, but...."

You can go from a no-lead condition to heavily leaded in less than a magazine full of rounds. If you are going to shoot lead boolits in a Glock, buy an after market barrel with standard rifling and you will probably have no problems. I carried my suggestion one step further and replaced my Glock with a Sig and haven't had a moment of regret. There are far too many blown-up .40 S&W Glocks for any sensible person to ignore, and very few logical explanations of the phenomenon.

Jack