Need Help with 357Sig.

[Rick N Bama]

Gentlemen, first off I would like to wish everyone prosperity in the coming year.

Guys I need a bit of help. I am the (somewhat) proud owner of a Springfield XD in 357Sig. Now this pistol has been a decent shooter using condoms, but in keeping with the purpose of this board, I would like to shoot cast in it.

A generous board member has kindly provided me with a large sample pack of boolits dropped from an RCBS 9MM-147 mold. The alloy chosen is a Foundry type mix, and the boolits are said to be harder than the lips of a backyard Woodpecker. With the mix he used, the boolits weigh ~143 grains.

Any ideas as to what powder & charge will do well for this cartridge?

The barrel slugs out to be just a fuzz over .355", so I've sized my boolits to .356" & lubed them with FWFL. Powders I currently have available are AA5, 7 & 9. H110, 2400, TiteGroup, Bullseye, Unique, Power Pistol & Red Dot.

I will appreciate any data you care to pass on to me.

Thanks to all,

Rick

[Tonto]

I'm looking for someone with experience with the 357Sig and cast as well. That short neck and the limitations of OAL make bullet choice very important. As stated in another thread, my first attempt at reloading this beast left me seating the bullet (LEE 9mm 120 TC w/std lube groove) a little deeeper on occasion when doing the final crimp operation

I suspect case length is very important, more so than usual and other brass related consistencies need careful attention in large lot reloading

I'm about to get a Lee factory crimp die with hopes that helps the seating issue, to use as a seperate step crimper

Just received a Bar-Sto 357Sig for my CZ75B in 40 but the slide and barrel need to go for fitting, the semi-drop in....didn't....but that will give me time to reload plenty of practice ammo as I perfect the technique and load

I will be curious to see what cast style performs best in the SIG, I like that 9mm 120 TC and I have the Lyman 147 and also to Devastator 125gr HP design, plus a few Lee RN designs in a couple of weights. Figure the lighter sligs give the best advantage in the 357SIG, plan on using linotype or a WW/Lino mix

[Rick N Bama]

I'm about to get a Lee factory crimp die with hopes that helps the seating issue, to use as a seperate step crimper

I will be curious to see what cast style performs best in the SIG, I like that 9mm 120 TC and I have the Lyman 147 and also to Devastator 125gr HP design, plus a few Lee RN designs in a couple of weights. Figure the lighter sligs give the best advantage in the 357SIG, plan on using linotype or a WW/Lino mix

I use Lee dies for this caliber, but I crimp with a Redding Taper Crimping Die. The Lee seater just didn't make it for me. Bullet setback is a problem with this round, but with the Redding die, it has simply ceased to be much of a factor. I have Lee FCDs in other calibers but not this one yet.

I have a sneaky feeling that boolits in the 125gr range will do best as have Jthings in that weight range, at least for me. Maybe I can arrange to get a few samples of your boolits to try?

Still looking for loading data.

Rick

[StarMetal]

Okay guys, this is very similar to my using a 30 Luger for cast. Yes my caliber and round is smaller, but in a way kind of like the 357 Sig, that is a little bottlenecked round with a very short neck and OAL. Deputy Al and I have found that you can use heavier cast bullets that weigh more then the original condom bullets. Yes they have to be seated into the powder space. This is so bad, as you're not going to load the cast to condom velocities, just to plink...or are you? Anyways the problem then is with this heavier cast bullet seated to an OAL that will work...where will the neck crimp onto the bullet? You want that crimp, be it taper or Lee factory crimp, or standard roll crimp to fall on a bullet band area. Thus you want to look for a heavier bullet that will present you with the crimping opportunities I just described. Then we'll go from there, ok?

Joe

[9.3X62AL]

Not so sure about a roll crimp with the 357 SIG, Joe. I believe the round gets its headspace on the case mouth, NOT the shoulder where it should in a fair and decent world. Taper crimp is the watchword with the 357 SIG, from what I've read. SIG-Sauer is DEAD SET against the use of reloaded ammo in their products, and since the company helped get this round off the ground--it wouldn't surprise me to hear that the complicated reloading regimen--by virtue of cartridge design elements--was intentional on their part.

In playing around with the 30 Luger and 30 Mauser, a taper crimp of the case mouth right into the drive band sidewall has done good work for me at holding the boolit in place--and removing the small flare that I put on the case mouth at the same time. I suspect that as cases get fired repeatedly and the case mouths work-harden, this ability to "friction-lock" boolits in place might start to degrade. I haven't seen that happen, though.

This last move was courtesy of the Hornady Bullet folks, in answer to a question about how to hold their 90 grain XTP HP in Starline cases--Hornady XTP's for the 30 pistols have no cannelure, but fat 30's for the 32 Mag and Hornady specialty bullets for the 30 Luger and 30 Mauser sure do. Surprised me, but the trick worked very well.

[Rick N Bama]

I've never seen nor heard of anyone using a roll crimp with this round. I too have read that it headspaces on the case mouth, so I don't think a roll crimp would work very well. The round really should headspace on the shoulder like a normal bottleneck round.

In the absence of any establised data I guess I'm on my own with this one?

Steve's Reloading Pages gives data for a 147gr boolit, so I'm thinking it was probably a cast that was used to collect said data. With that in mind, and a crude way of determing just how full I can fill the case, I've decided to load a few rounds with a charge of 5.2grs of Power Pistol and we'll see what happens.

Wish me luck.

Rick

[versifier]

Never having loaded any bottleneck pistol cases, I figured I'd ask just to complicate matters. Is it feasable to use neck sizing so that it forces the case to headspace on the shoulder instead of the neck, or will that cause feeding problems from too fat cases? :?:

[StarMetal]

That's what I say, size it to headspace on the shoulder. The Tokarev and 30 Luger don't have any problems headspacing off the shoulder.

Deputy Al

Telling ya, you need to get that factory crimp die for your 30 luger/Tokie rounds, better then taper crimp in my opinion.

Joe

[Rick N Bama]

Quite frankly I don't have a clue as to what would happen if the case was only neck sized. First thing I would think I would have to get someone to make such a die as I've never seen such as animal in pistol dies. Also the neck is so short that I don't see any way that it could be done with the standard FL die without some body sizing taking place.

Rick






Never having loaded any bottleneck pistol cases, I figured I'd ask just to complicate matters. Is it feasable to use neck sizing so that it forces the case to headspace on the shoulder instead of the neck, or will that cause feeding problems from too fat cases? :?:

[StarMetal]

Now hold on there a minute. You don't want a die that just neck sizes it, you want to make sure it chambers easily and the pistol functions. What you want to do is back off your full lenght sizer so that it just sizes down to the neck/shoulder junction. You can paint of a cases neck/shoulder with a black felt marker and size it and see where the dies sizes it too. Just , just, just at the neck/shoulder junction....you don't want to push that shoulder back any. That should headspace you off the case mouth. Might want to make sure you don't have any too long cases to make sure they aren't headspacing off the mouths too.

Joe

[weakhand luke]

I wonder if there's been any headway in selecting the "best" cast bullet for the 357SIG? I'm just starting into 9mm, and haven't selected a mould yet.

Thanks,

Also, although it does slow the process a bit, I've found that performing a "first sizing" with my carbide .40S+W die eases the resizing process a bit and you don't need to lube the cases. It's an easy step to build into the process.

[johnly]

I have a 357 Sig that I built on a Springfield Armory P9 frame. AA #9 is the go to powder for the 357 Sig as it offers both speed and accuracy.

I haven't shot cast in mine, but have a fair number of loads chronographed in my gun. In most cases my gun will digest any published maximum load, except those listed by IMR. My gun hits max about 20% under their listed maximum lcharge weight for both 800X and SR4756, but my measured velocities match up with theirs.

Drop me a PM and I'll send you my loading data.

John

[Rick N Bama]

Dang, you guys just had to bring this thread back to life didn't you!

I never did get around to shooting any cast in my XD due to trading the gun off almost 2 years ago. Big mistake! I wound up trading it for a Beretta 92FS & I knew the moment I handed the gun over that I had just screwed up! The XD was a solid 2" shooter with J-Words and I've yet to achieve that sort of accuracy with this *** Beretta. Maybe someday I'll be able to get myself another XD in 357Sig. Great gun in a great caliber!

Rick

[Oneshot]

You must realize that the 357 Sig was not made to shoot a 9mm bullet. The long narrow sloped bullet that works so well in the 9 doesnt fit or head space properly. Instead you need a bullet with a short blunt nose.

The bullet manufactures made a new bullet just to fit the Sig. I have real good luck with a truncated cone bullet. The regular 9mm wouldn't feed, headspace or shoot properly. Look for short fat noses. I would give more info on mine but I buy it locally and do not know how much he sells nationally. If you ask I will give his info so you could call and talk to him.

That doesn't help with mould selection tho.

[Ol'Scudder]

Sounds like you have some of the same problems i have, Rick - lots of grandkids on my part, and too many other projects. Anyways, this Realguns website is run by a guy that did a pretty convincing test on his 229 Sig when he bought a new barrel for it in 357 Sig and tried shooting cast boolits- accompanied with misfires.

I have the 229 also, and have installed the 357 barrel on it some time ago, but haven't as yet fired any boolits in it. Before i do, i intend to run the same kind of tests with the dial indicator that he did. Looks to me like it's intended to headspace on the shoulder. Hope you folks find this useful.

http://www.realguns.com/archives/001.htm

[shotstring]

Most people have had the best luck in 357 Sig using either Power Pistol or AA#9, with AA#9 getting the nod not only because it shoots hard and it shoots accurate, but also because it fills the case, both eliminating the possibility of a double charge but more importantly because it resists the boolit slipping down inside the case. If the latter happens, you can get a dangerous pressure spike.

[Rick N Bama]

AA9 didn't work for me at all with J-Hickies due to most of it burning just as it exited the barrel. IOW, there was a large flash & boom just outside the gun. I had great results using a 125gr JHP bullet make by the Zero Bullet Co. IIRC I used Power Pistol, dang I wish I had that gun back.

Ol'Scudder........we have 6 Grandchildren ages 7 down to 5 months & yes, they keep us busy!

Rick

[johnly]

Rick,

10.5 grains of AA#9 with a 147 grain Hornady XTP clocked 1070 in my 357 Sig and shot quite well. I've also been working in some Lil'Gun loads as it works quite well in my Marlin 357 and 38 Super. I picked up a pound of Power Pistol, but haven't tried it as yet.

John

[Scrounger]

You guys need some brass? I know I have 500 around here and I'm pretty sure there's another thousand hiding somewhere.

[weakhand luke]

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