Is a boolit by any other name still as sweet?

[JohnH]

I'd like to have a discussion about how we percieve and use bullets. Truth is there are lots of bullet designs out there. If you are here, you've prolly played with most of 'em. If you are here you prolly see yourself on a journey of sorts. If you are here you've prolly weighed the question "Do I use cast or jacketed for this?" An inquiring mind would like to know the answer and how you arrived at it.

At one point in time I would have considered myself a purist, shooting only jacketed. My thinking was that jacketed were designed for the high performance of smokless powders and cast was good at best for pistol plinkin'.

At one point in time, I would have considered myself a purist, shooting only what I cast regardless of the chambering. In fact, the last 7 years of my shooting has primarliy been centered around firearms/chamberings that are considered cast shooters, or have a history of being used as such.

I've come to a place where I've neither pride nor prejudice about what kind of projectile I'm launching. I've become very purpose oriented, letting the ends dictate the means. I deer hunted with my Encore 243 barrel (Pro Hunter) this year using using Remingtons 100 grain Core Loct. I've shot two deer thus far one at 225 yards one at 35 yards. Performance was exactly what one would expect from a jacketed bullet....bang flop. I used the 243 as I've gone prairie dog shooting the last two years with it and felt very confident of being able to make any reasonable shot presented. It worked. It's possible at this point I may never use anything else as a primary deer rifle.

My experience shooten' p'dogs really opened my eyes to the radical difference in performance between cast and jacketed. I took my 25-06 along using the RCBS 257120 and driving it at 1800 fps. Solid hit's out to 150-180 yards were easy enough, 4 shots to the hit on average in 30 MPH winds. But I was doing that at 300+ with the Nosler .243 55 grainer launched at 3670 (from a 28" tube, Size Does Matter ;) ) If I ever go p'doggin' again, I doubt there'll be any cast boolits along for the trip.

I've used cast in past to hunt deer with and have been quite successful, taking 4 deer using the RCBS 35-200 in a 357 Maximum, a 265 grainer in a 44 Magnum carbine and a 265 grainer from a 38-55. All those were shot at ranges of 25-40 yards and performance was exellent. I certainly wouldn't consider myself undergunned with any of them or several other chamberings using cast only. Cast is more than up to the task, one just has to take into account the limitations it imposes.

All of my plinking is done with cast, regardless of rifle or handgun. But in future, my defensive guns will be loaded with either XTP's in handguns or good quality soft point/hollwpoints in rifle. I've done enough of my own testing and read enough other testing that I"ve no doubt that some very good high performance bullets are out there, and I'm cheating myself by not taking advantage of them.

Have I relegated cast back to "good only for plinkin' " status? Not at all. Two of my shooten' buddies and I have taken to shooten' clays at 100 yards standing, 200 yards off the bench. The point of shooting is hitting, and there is no substitute for hitting with the first shot. Shootin' tin cans at 25 yards is plinkin' shooten 'em offhand at 100 is serious work.

So there it is, my cast/jacketed evolution. Where are you at in yours?

[454PB]

For me, it's interesting that jacketed bullets have only been around for a 100 years. Yet mankind has been killing animals for food using lead boolits for about 500 years.

[DLCTEX]

I have just begun my journey into using cast for hunting, having taken my first cast boolit deer and some prairie dogs so far. I will have to try paper patching and hollowpointing, different alloys and loads, and possibly some other as yet unknown things, and these in a variety of ways before it ends, if it ever does. I have reached a point where I shoot to cast, I guess that means I have crossed over to the dark side.I will not return. DALE

[legend]

johnh,

my journey has been very similar;i wont bore you with it,just that it began in 1960 watching my father cast with a local vermont state police friend.both are gone now however i still remember that day and my facination with "the silver stream".

i have had a large amount of success in my shooting life,several state championships in archery,several in trapshooting,many in long range pistols,pin shooting,etc. once i learned how to play these games and had success i was instantly on to something else i did not know how to do....a quest perhaps?

when i found this board i would have said my knowledge would have been about a 7 on a 1-10 scale about cast boolits,i however found i was truly about a 3....
and boy has this been fun since!
i still learn every day from this site,i believe i have found a home here;i think my search is over.

thanks to all for shareing YOUR knowledge with an old guy.

[Tom W.]

In my 7mm Rem mag I shoot jacketed, because I have quite a few that were given to me. I shoot cast in most of my 30 calibers without a second thought, altho I have yet to shoot any from my .308 yet, just due to the fact that I haven't any loaded up yet. All of my pistols and revolvers shoot cast......

[35remington]

I've come to the conclusion that jacketed bullets and small game loads don't belong anywhere near each other.

For small game use and around the farm critter control, a .25-20 or a downloaded '06 or .257 Roberts loaded with cast make the best hunting and pest control rifles imaginable. Most opportunities are well within 150 yards.

For a few days during the big game season, sure, jacketed may have some advantages. A very few. In my .35 Remington, near none at all.

For rabbit, squirrel, possum, raccoon, etc. etc. jacketed has no advantage whatsoever, and liabilities when it comes to destruction of the eating part of rabbit and squirrel. At least, how I load them.

Besides, cast is way cheaper and there's no proprietary pride of craftsmanship with a jacketed bullet. Somebody else made it, not me.

The bulk of my shooting is with the lead bullet, and with the cost of jacketed bullets that's likely always to be so.

That means that for occasional use jacketed are fine, but they're not the real workhorse lead bullet loads are. Lead bullet loads are daily shooters for me. Jacketed ain't in the same league as to familiarity and load development. I lavish far more attention and care in developing a cast bullet load than a jacketed bullet load, because that sucker's gonna get SHOT.

The most sophisticated loads I shoot are lead bullet loads. They have far more possibilities than jacketed bullets as to development and tinkering. That's gonna come as a shock to some, but it's true.

[runfiverun]

when you start working with cast boolits you really start to learn how a gun really works and what you should be doing to make it shoot.
once you figure out what you need to be looking at, shooting flgc's becomes much easier too.
with that said over 90% of my shooting is done with cast,and the bulk of my shooting is rifles.
in fact my pistol casting is done by the wife and kids. except for my super-mags.

[Boerrancher]

I always shot cast in my handgun cartridges. As a kid I grew up packing a Marlin 94c in a 357 that was given to me by a good friend of my fathers. At the age of 7 I was packing my Marlin around when I would check the cattle or walk/ride the fence lines. It was good for busting coyotes out to 100 yards or so. This is the gun I started casting for soon after it was given to me, because dad got tired of keeping me in ammo.

I never gave cast a though for anything over about 1800 fps, because dad and his friend said it was near impossible to do. I shot a few light cast loads out of mil surp 06's at turtles on the river banks but never did any serious shooting with cast. All of my hunting was done with jacketed bullets, except for the lead I shot out of my 22 at small game. Minute of paper plate was all I ever expected out of a cast boolit. Some of my hand guns shot them good and all of my rifles chambered for handgun rounds shot cast real well, but once again I didn't care as long as I could smack a coyote out to 200 yds with my larger cal rifles.

A little over a year ago I found this site, and my opinion of cast boolits changed forever, and so did my world. I found out I could easily get 2500+ fps out of a cast boolit out of a 30-06 and still shoot MOA three shot groups. I also found out the old Mod 94 30-30 that had been sitting in the back of my safe for over 10 years because it wouldn't hit a 5 gal bucket every time at 100 yards, will shoot a cast boolit as fast as I can a jacketed one and it will shoot sub MOA groups for 3 shots.

I use to consider using a cast boolit for anything other than plinking to be a huge handicap. Now with some rifles like my 30-30 it is an advantage. I don't consider a 180 gr cast boolit at 2500 fps out of my 30-06 to be a handicap either. That is about as fast as I can shoot a jacketed bullet of the same weight out of an 06, and they do expand on deer and other large game. This year all I hunted with was cast, and while some of my friends thought I was doing it to go primitive, I did it because I knew better.

Will I ever shoot a 165 gr cast boolit out of my 300 win mag with 85.5 grs of AA3100 pushing it like I do with the same wt in a condom bullet? No, of course not. But I do know that I can push a 200 gr cast out of it at 2700 fps with out any problems, so I can still safely Kill at a distance any critter that lives in North America, but I am not worried about that until after I shoot up the couple hundred pounds of 165 gr Sierra Game Kings that I have stored up. I am not going to give up completely on condom bullets, but for most of my needs around here, a cast boolit will serve me just as well and in some cases better.

Merry Christmas from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[waksupi]

I have used cast boolits for so many years, hunting and plinking, that I now view jacketed bullets as something to not be trusted when something really needs to die.

[montana_charlie]

When I got the bug to shoot muzzleloaders, I learned to cast round ball and Maxi-Ball because they were the 'proper' bullets for that endeavor. Because I was shooting in matches, I would only accept 'perfect' bullets.

Now that my interest has turned to a Sharps rifle, I have (again) taken up bullet casting...because cast bullets are the 'proper' fodder for the new game. Again, only 'perfect' bullets are acceptable because they are used for placing small groups of holes in paper targets.

Except for shotgun shells and rimfire, I haven't bought a round of factory loaded ammunition in 35 years. But I use jacketed bullets in my hunting guns for the same reason the military uses them. They are uniform, reliable, and (once loaded) maintenance-free.
They feed reliably in the intended firearm, do not attract dirt and grit into a soft lubricant, and are not subject to damage due to careless handling.
And (perhaps most important), they are 'engineered' to perform in a certain way on the intended target...and do so in a reliable and predictable manner.

When I wished to introduce an element of 'challenge' into my hunting, I switched to a single-shot rifle. But it fires the same 7mm Mag. cartridge as it's magazine-fed predecessor.
I did not consider it to be a useful 'challenge' to switch to a less durable and less predictable bullet type.

Perhaps it's true that man has used lead bullets for 500 years...and copper clad for only 100. But man used rocks for thousands of years.
That duration does not convince anyone that rocks are better than bullets.

CM

[1Shirt]

I am sort of a mix of "all of the above" I guess. Plinking at P-dogs w/hornet or 222 out to 200 is kind of fun but about the extent of boolit cap, and beyond 200 it is jacketed. For paper punchin, with rare exception, I am shooting cast and will continue to do so, because it is less expensive and more of a challenge than with jacketed. As to hunting, if the range is going to be 100 or less, and I know that for sure, am inclined to shoot cast, probably in the 1800-2000 bracket in 30, and in 1400-1500 in 444 and 45-70. There is just something about doing as much of it yourself as possible that keeps me casting and shooting cast. I can't make case, primer, or powder, but can make the boolit & gas check, and that makes it much more reloading than if I am shooting jacketed. On top of that , the more I shoot cast, (which is a considerable amount), the more I realize that what I know about it is small in comparison to so many others. That is why this forum is so good for old duffers like me. My dad used to say "any day you don't learn something is a day wasted", and with this forum, I am always learning something.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[eka]

Only a small percentage of my shooting activity involves hunting. I prefer to hunt with cast, but would use a jacketed bullet if it was the logical and required choice for the caliber and situation. Most of my shooting is done for the pure and simple fun of it. Most of that involves shooting groups at various ranges. I find that I have the most fun when I am experimenting with my homemade boolits. I have always enjoyed taking the path less traveled and making cast boolits my primary choice qualifies for that. I mostly like old guns. I keep my loads mild out of respect for these old treasures and cast helps me do that. And did I mention I am cheap. And did I also mention that I absolutely hate cleaning copper. Cast has really helped me take my shooting and reloading to a whole different level. Take cast boolits out of the equation and I am 100% sure I would not enjoy this hobby nearly as much. Matter of fact, I think I'd be downright bored. The one thing I try very hard to never do is take an elitist attitude with anyone that doesn't cast or reload. I'm just glad to be in on the fun and have you guys to chew the fat with. :-D

Keith

[Bret4207]

For myself I wouldn't hesitate to use cast when hunting anything in my area. I know that given the proper design and decent velocity I'll get through and through penetration and that shot placement is king. For my boys it's different. Judgment and patience comes with age and experience, so I try to work around the downsides of their age and use appropriate loadings. Since my oldest prefers a 250 Savage Ruger ultra light due to it's weight, I use a Nosler Partition. If he ever starts using a 35 then maybe I'll trust him with cast. Till then, I depend more on velocity and expansion than metplat and penetration.

[Wicky]

When I first started using boolits it was for my handguns, my 686 in particular, for action shooting and later in my 44 mag for silhouette and my 45LC for Western Action. I think my Win 94 was the first longarm I had used boolits in all my other rifles used j bullets.
My 310 started me on the cast boolit path for rifles - I used 32 cal 100gn hornadys bumped to fit - they shot like C**P!
Then thanks to this forum I am loading my 303, 308, 45/70 and 404 with boolits.
Most of the hunting here is confined to bigger stuff as the rabbits were wiped out by the drought and the Calicivirus (a virus that attacks the bunnies major organs and causes them to haemorrhage internally)
We shoot the odd Kangaroo but not that often. Mainly Horses, Donkeys and Camels so the 30 cals and up are ideal.
I still use J bullets but the lead stuff is far more fun.
I am trying to organise another trip up to the Top End (Northern Australia) to hunt Buffalo and Pigs with Cast as I have used J bullets in the past and have had a great time.

[Old Ironsights]

Purpose driven. Cloverleafs don't impress me outside of Muzzy Competitions.

What matters to me is consistent Lethality & Combat/Hunting accuracy.

[jerrold]

Purist?? I don't know what it takes to qualify.
I have my center fire rifles that are designed to shoot jacketed bullets and smokeless powder. From my time shooting "benchrest" group competition I grew to realize that the only interesting rifle is an accurate rifle. I never "plink" as such, but test and develop loads for jacketed bullets along with a little hunting.
Casting lead is reserved for the rifle that is appropriate, in my case a 45-2.4 and a couple muzzle loaders. The 45-2.4 has never had smokeless powder or jacketed bullets in it.
The two disciplines are separate to me and never mixed