hollow point mold question

[colbyjack]

om im going to attempt to make a HP mold. any tips???? looking at taking a 230 grain RN .452 bullet mold and making it happen. what size of HP hole? should the pin be tapered where it goes in the bullet? any tips on centering this thing? im assuming i should drill from the bottom into the bullet. not from the bullet out the bottom of the mold. any tips or any threads or how to's point me. thanks and if it dont work all im out is a vintage lyman mould right..... :Fire::drinks::castmine::coffee: -chris

[runfiverun]

tapered is the way to go seals better.
i had pretty good luck with a taper up to bout 5-16" when i tried this.
for what you are gonna do with these you can go bigger.
even up to 3/8 ths.
should knock off 20 grs or so unlesss you go down to your driving band but i don't think i would go quite that deep.
if they are a tad off center your paper targets at 6 inches wont really know the diff.
lmao. you got the tools go for it.

[docone31]

Listen to me, Colby, I can tell by the questions you ask, it will be a first time.
It must be precise.
There are a lot of folks here who will step in, and really give pointers that are valid. If you are like me, it will have been done by now and I will have decommisioned a mold.
I seriously hope you can make it happen. I know I would want bragging rights on something like that.
A tip I have, for what it is worth, I have a bottom pour pot. I would make the Hollow Point mandrel and ball, the height I needed to get a good pour. Instead of using the Lee mold rest, I could use the ball on the mandrel instead.
That is my would like to do.
It does sound like you have picked a great mold to start with. I am guessing you will end up with about 200gns when done. My 1911 loves 200gn cast boolitts.
She fires better with the 200grainers than the 230gn. Smaller groups.
Great luck, and when you succeed, get some photos up. Especially the in progress ones.
I would sure like to see.
I remember how nervous I was when I chambered my first barrel! Came out ok. It is my favourite rifle to date, except for my Enfield.
Great luck.

[KYCaster]

I think Buckshot wrote up a good tutorial, with pics, on the process. A search should bring up lots of info.

Jerry

[mtgrs737]

I would send it to Buckshot or Evan at www.hollowpointmold.com to have it done. If you don't have the right tools it may be a waste of a good mould.

[Winger Ed.]

Make yourself a pointed pin/mandrel that will snuggley fit into the closed mold.
Weld or thread it onto a base that can be clamped to your drill press table.
Any type of round stock, or even a cut off piece of a bolt will work.
If ya don't have acces to lathes, milling machines, etc., a home shop drill press will work.
(Not knowing what ya got in your shop- This may be a good excuse to buy more power tools)
Even a wooden rod & base should work since you're only going to use it once.

Chuck up the drill bit you plan to drill the hole in the bottom of the mold with & turn it on.
Move your mandrel/base around to get it centered up, and clamp it down.
This works sort of like those cone looking thing you line scope mounts with.

You will now have the center of the mold lined up.
Put the mold over the mandrel, clamp with one hand, and drill your hole with the other.
It should center up perfectly.

[Buckshot]

.............colbyjack, nothing beats a try but a failure :drinks: and THAT is a learning experience also. It would be nice to know what kind of equipment you have to work with before going into some detailed explaination of 'ways' to do it. Some better then others.

It will also depend upon what your intentions are for the finished mould. If it's for hunting then the possibilities of longer ranges become a factor, so accuracy in execution is much more important. For the 45 RN you're talking about I suspect it may be defensive? If that's the case then historicly the range will be well less then 25 yards, but even a fairly cockeyed job will be accurate enough, from a good gun to take care of business.

If you look at the Speer 45 cal 200gr Flying Ashtray, a 1/4" bit would work well :drinks: However if that 45 slug is to be used in an autoloader, take a good look at where and how the bullet's nose rides the feedramp up into the chamber. That can be helpfull for how big you can go. Lets say that 45 WILL work with a 1/4" hole in the nose. You will have to grind a taper onto the HP pin at some point fairly quick. However, you can stand a 'bit of parallel sides to the pin so you get a nice wide cup in the nose to initiate expansion.

Then you'll have to start the taper at a bit less then 0.100" deep. Too much parallel length and the shrinking lead can get ahold of the pin and make it tough to get out. You'll need to have an accurate means to turn the taper on the pin. If it's lopsided it'll be difficult if not impossible to get it out of the boolit cast onto it:-)

The human eye is a pretty amazing measureing intrument, and if this slug is for short range defensive work you could almost eyeball the drill bit to center in the nose of this short fat cavity. However I would NOT depend on a hand held drill motor to drill it. I've had a couple people send in a few such moulds to be repaired. One was memorable in the amount of angle the person had on the bit as they drilled the hole. Some kind of drill press would be my bare minimum equipment requirement, but without knowing what'cha got I can't really suggest a way to git'er done.

................Buckshot

[GLL]

Chris:

Save yourself some tears and perhaps a bit of profanity as well ! :) :)

Box it up and send it to Rick !

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/48F5B23791A6340/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/764FE0DF38E319D/standard.jpg

[LIMPINGJ]

Ohhh Pretty Pictures

[colbyjack]

got a smithy, have 2 bridgeports but one isnt hooked up, and the other got to put the new motor on, power feed table, and DRO. so probably be using the smithy.

the bullet will just be for the heck of it deffensive that i hope to never have to use. i just was courious to which in to do it from and whats the best way to do it.

im not doing it my buddy joe site member pappaj is. well i have told him yet... lol i thought id get some feed back first. also bucjshot just courious what will you charge me for you to do it?

i got plenty of rod different sizes 8620 material got some nice round chunks of 1045 also. -chris

[Ben]

Chris:

Save yourself some tears and perhaps a bit of profanity as well ! :) :)

Box it up and send it to Rick !

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/48F5B23791A6340/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/764FE0DF38E319D/standard.jpg
______________________________

Ditto, Ditto, Ditto to your comments Jerry ! ! !

Ben

[32Special]

Okay, who is Rick? I mean the guy referenced in the posts above, and how do you reach him??

[Ben]

You'll reach him by finding one of his post.
He is " Buckshot ".

You can communicate with him by PM.

Ben

[runfiverun]

unless he meant red river rick he does good work too.

[GLL]

Rick is indeed "Buckshot" ! :)

Jerry

[Buckshot]

...............colbyjack, since you have a lathe you can do it. It isn't magic. Regardless how high tech and how precise you equipment is, the most important thing is an accurate setup. It's like a computer in that garbage in (setup) results in garbage out (a usless ruined result). So that covers the basic aspect of you and your machine. In the past 4 years I've been doing this I've probably easily HP'ed 100 moulds, and have had maybe twice that number pass thorugh my hands for HPing and other work.

http://www.fototime.com/2E52E1F832F7ACF/standard.jpg

ABOVE Checking blocks and cavity on a granite surface plate. I can pretty well guarentee that the cavity is NOT going to be on axis with the mould blocks' exterior. It can be tilted along or across the mould parting line as one reference, let alone the exterior of the blocks. With that in mind it's best to run your setup on the nose portion of the cavity as resonably close to the meplat as possible. I have also seen very few moulds where you will NOT see a 'bounce' across the parting line. So long as it's equal on the other side and not much over a thousandth or a thou and a half max, you'll be fine.

You'll need a 2 or 4 jaw independant chuck, or a faceplate to hold the blocks. Before clamping the blocks, referenceing the above mentioned 'bounce' and earlier precision setup, be sure the blocks are in good shape. They should show no light between the block halves and the blocks should not have any movement between them.

http://www.fototime.com/6684CE3056F7995/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/002631191054A36/standard.jpg http://www.fototime.com/2235C21F3A083BE/standard.jpg

The LEFT is a setup on a faceplate with the mould held in a toolmaker's vise accurate to .0002". CENTERThe faceplate setup being indicated on the lathe. RIGHT Indicating the cavity utilizing a 4 jaw chuck. The 4 jaw is the easiest approch. I use a .0005" indicating TI. I tried a .0001" TI and it was lunicy, as I was chasing tenths all over the place for no real advantage. Once setup so the needle is indicating a tiny deflection across the parting lines only and you're satisfied, you're ready to drill the hole. Previously you should have selected a centerdrill that will reach through the cavity without interfering, to drill the guide hole for the actual bit you'll use.

http://www.fototime.com/4F570981026E8CC/standard.jpg

The scary part :-) When I did my first one it took SOME time from the point of being sure of my setup and working up the nerve to actually stick the drill bit in to do it's thing. In fact I checked and re-checked the setup a couple times, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's not so stressfull any longer! I usually use 6" long bits to drill the hole, and then later use portions of the shank to make the HP pins.

There are several ways to hold the HP pin and to retain the assembly on the base of the mould blocks, and they all work well, and pretty much the same. I'll leave that design up to you :-)

.................Buckshot

[beagle]

Think I'd go with a .156" pin in that mould. Don't go too big. I've always used the rule of thumb of 1/3 the diameter of the bullet rounded off to the nearest bigger common sized bit.

On Lyman/Ideal moulds, measure and eyeball the mould blocks carefully. Sometimes, the blocks are not "square" and a little external machining is required to get them square. Might as well not have any errors induced into teh work up front.

Also, eyeball the cavity carefully as to being square with the block. We have found many that will be off a bit and this screws things up.

Our later HP mods used a "stepped" pin. With a pin the size you're after, you won't have problems with the drill "walking" as you drill but doing .22s and .25s, we've found it best to dial in the cavity on a mill and reverse and come in to the bottom with say, a 125" to about 1/4" from the cavity. Then reverse and come in through the cavity with a .070" or .090" whatever we intend the cavity to be. This eliminates the walking. A careful reaming job then makes the pin channel smooth.

Go for it and you'll have a good mould to use for the rest of your life./beagle

[quack1]

Reading these posts brings up another question-how deep should a hollow point cavity be in relation to the caliber of the boolet for best expansion? I always figured no deeper than the crimp groove or first driving band. What do you guys think?

[beagle]

I've always used the rule of thumb of half the bullet length. Seems to work pretty well on the ones that I've done./beagle