30-06 dies for cast boolits

[opentop]

I’m planning on casting for 30-30 and 30-06 which brings me to a question on dies. I saw RCBS cowboy 30-30 dies at midway that are designed for cast lead boolits. (Gawd I want to spell it that way all the time now[smilie=1:). At any rate, They state that they size the case a little larger and also has a roll crimp die, which I like. But I look at 30-06 dies and they don’t offer any such dies for cast boolits.

My question is, do I need different 30-06 dies to load cast boolits? Or will the dies I already have that load bullets with copper condoms work for cast?

[grumpy one]

You will almost certainly need to run some extra operations but the standard dies can form the backbone of your requirements. I add a Lyman M die, which expands the neck a little so it won't swage down my cast bullet, and I set the M die so it expands the case mouth slightly more, so the gas check will enter the case under hand pressure. That facilitates starting the bullet straight. Then I sometimes use a Lee FCD to undo the slight flaring caused by the last step on the M die. I don't always use the FCD though - only if I find a crimp is needed. In my case the cartridges will chamber without resistance despite the flaring from the last step on the M die. You may need to check that. If it's a problem, the FCD will fix it.

[opentop]

Thanks grumpy one. I have the Lee die set with the FCD.


I wonder if the 30-30 cowboy expander and seater die will work with 30-06? They are both 30 cal. As long as the case will enter the die with out interference, I don't see why it wouldn't work. I may have to dig into this a little ferther.

[NSP64]

opentop, The diameter of 30/30 is smaller(compared to 30/06) just behind the shoulder. so you can't neck size the 06 in the 30/30 die. But you might be able to move the expander to the 06 die body.:D

[grumpy one]

Thanks grumpy one. I have the Lee die set with the FCD.


I wonder if the 30-30 cowboy expander and seater die will work with 30-06? They are both 30 cal. As long as the case will enter the die with out interference, I don't see why it wouldn't work. I may have to dig into this a little ferther.

First, I don't think you can use a 30-30 seater for 30-06. The case needs to be centered by the seating die, and the 30-30 and 30-06 cases are different sizes and shapes.

I am not familiar with the cowboy dies. My guess is that they will work with cast bullets, but I personally don't much care for roll crimps on rifle cartridges. I've had some indications of assymetrically bulged case necks, which can cause poor bullet centering in the case, and poor case alignment in the chamber. On the other hand you do need some way to keep the bullet in the case neck if you need to extract a chambered round, which happens to me fairly often at the range when a cease-fire catches me by surprise. My solution is to use the FCD with bullets which engrave on chambering, and not use it otherwise unless it seems to improve accuracy.

The issue of how much neck tension you want to use controls whether you need an oversize neck sizing die or not. I usually shoot bullets of about 10.5 BHN, and they seem to prefer not too much neck tension or they swage down a bit during bullet seating. However if I neck-annealed my cases more frequently this probably wouldn't happen. It also probably wouldn't happen if I dídn't need to size my bullets at 0.311 for 30-06 and 0.312 for 30-30. The big, soft bullets and only semi-soft case necks seem to call for use of the M-die to relieve case neck tension the whole length of the case neck. The last step on the M die then steps up the last sixteenth of an inch of neck to match the OD of the gas check. I suspect those cowboy dies do something pretty similar.

I may switch to heat treating my bullets in the near future, and if that happens I probably won't have as much need to relieve neck tension. I'll still need to flare the case mouth though. Incidentally I find the last step on the M die is just right for gas check bullets, but for plain base I need to flare a bit more than the M die does. I use home-made expanding plugs for that.

[Shiloh]

I am using LEE dies for .30-30. Works fine. I have the deluxe set with the FL sizing die as well as the Neck Sizing die. I have a LEE .30 cal Factory Crimp Die that I use to just close the bell from the LEE universal case mouth expander die. I have had no problems using the neck size die only.
No problems with tight or sticky chamberings.

Shiloh

[Boerrancher]

+1 to every thing said here, esp the part about the roll crimp. I taper crimp all of my rifle rounds, esp my 30-30 and 44-40. I have also noted that many times with a roll crimp the crimp does not completely come out of the case, which indicates to me that the case mouth is scraping off part of my boolit before it ever gets to the bore. I have really noticed this a lot on low pressure roll crimped loads.

A few years back I did a little experiment with roll and taper crimped low pressure loads in both my 44-40 rifle and pistol. It seemed that the taper crimped loads shot better out of the rifle and about the same for the pistol, but I never was a very good shot with a pistol.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe