Another First Casting Session

[ddeaton]

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l86/ddeaton2/IMG_1888.jpg

I have the Pro Melt turned up to 800 and no wrinkles, but top band is rounded on most, not the sharp square edge. Am I dropping them from the mold too soon? I started leaving it sit for a little more time and really didnt see the results. I was too much in the groove and dumping boolits all over. I have a good amount that are fine, but most are rounded.

[Vly]

I see some boolits that are nicely filled out. Those are likely the ones you cast after the mold got up to the proper temperature. The rounded ones are likely from the cooler mold.

Casting in the north during winter can be tricky if you are in a cold environment. I cast in my garage with the door open enough for ventilation. If the outside temp is not at least 40F, I don't bother.

[ddeaton]

That is exactly what I was doing, in the shop out back, door and window cracked for vent, but did have the woodstove going. I am just happy so far with what I did. A little tweaking and it might work. It doesnt take long for the pot to empty, I was throwing a lot of scrap back in the pot as I was going along, probably dropped the temp too much. How full do you guys fill the Pro melt up?

[JohnH]

Which Pro Melt, the 10 or 20 pounder? I use both. Like you I add the sprues back to the melt. I also add ingots as well. I keep the pot full, never add more than 2 pounds of metal at a time. I also lay my ingots on the pot rim to preheat. When I scoop sprues back in, I will add a couple of large spoon fulls at a time. This part ain't no exact science. You get a feel for what the pot can handle in terms of bringing metal up to temp. The method I like best is to have both pots running, using two molds, casting with one mold from each pot, alternatiing between the two. You can run a pot to half full but it will take a bit to recover the melt and the mold will then need to be "reheated"

[ddeaton]

Are the cast iron molds more forgiving? Seems like the Lee cools down pretty quick. Do you really need to lay sprue side down on a moist towel. Seems like this sucks the preheat right out of the mold.

[JohnH]

Are the cast iron molds more forgiving? Seems like the Lee cools down pretty quick. Do you really need to lay sprue side down on a moist towel. Seems like this sucks the preheat right out of the mold.

I wouldn't call iron molds more or less forgiving, each material has it's own quirks. Iron being denser does hold it's heat better.

The purpose of cooling the sprue is to be able to open the mold more quickly to increase production and limit lead smears. If you are cooling the sprue, use a shallow dish, fill with water, lay in a washcloth and hang a corner over the edge. Touch the sprue to the dripping corner for cooling, you can see the color change of the metal when the temp changes and you can cool the sprue without over cooling and taking heat out of the mold. You may want a catch pan to keep water from dripping on the floor. At the working temperature of the room you describe I doubt you even need to use this method at this time of year. If you are working with one mold only, and choose to let the sprue air cool, watch for the color of the sprue to change before opening. This will keep lead smearing to a minimum. In addition use Bullplate Lube or Permatex high temp lube on the bottom of the sprue plate

Do you preheat your mold? Preheating will take a lot of work out of heating a mold by casting leaving you will more well filled out boolits earlier in the casting session.

[docone31]

It just looks like the mold is a little cool.
Those are shooters though.
Here is what I do with Lee Molds.
I heat up my melt. I use the bottom pour Lee 20lb pot. I set the mold on the melt. When the lead does not stick to the mold, I begin casting.
Like it was said in this thread, the colour of the sprue puddle will tell you when the sprue has "frozen". At this point, I cut the sprue.
I try to cast with my mold good and hot. Rarely do I need to cool it down. When that is the case, I just let it sit with no castings in it. I do not let my mold touch anything wet, or cool, during my molding.
I cut the sprue, drop the buttons directly into the pot, then dump the castings into water.
When I recharge the pot, usually my mold is good and hot. I just drop an ingot into the melt, and cast away. I do not let the pot get low at all. I actually count ingots as I cast. X amount of ingots, 1" of tin. Sometimes no tin, it depends on how the castings are looking at the time. I have gotten several entire batches of castings without adding any tin at all. I flux with Kitty Litter. Does great. All the crud attaches itself to the Kitty Litter. I occasionally push a pin in the nozzle when the flow slows down.
Those castings look like shooters. Just heat the mold more and you will have square corners.
Not too bad overall.

[NSP64]

Good first go! You will get the hang of it. They look like shooters.

[cajun shooter]

Deaton, I sure don't know about casting in the cold north. Was out casting yesterday and it's 80 degrees here. I fill my pro melt up to within 1/2 in of the top. I run my temp at 750 and leave the 6 banger on top while it's coming to temp. I also let the pot level come down and don't add to it as I'm casting. I think you are keeping it too full. When it's about 3/4 empty I then add the lead to fill it back up. Does it take awhile, yes. But by this time I'm ready for a short break. You will be suprised at the amount of bullets you can cast before that pot goes down. This keeps the pot at an even temp and also the bullets that are cast will all look good. When I'm finished with a session I fill the pot up to the top and let it come to temp before shutting down, that way when I start a new session the pot is ready.

[Thumbcocker]

I use graphite based mould prep by Rapine on all my moulds. I think it helps with fill out.

[Tom Herman]

I have the Pro Melt turned up to 800 and no wrinkles, but top band is rounded on most, not the sharp square edge. Am I dropping them from the mold too soon? I started leaving it sit for a little more time and really didnt see the results. I was too much in the groove and dumping boolits all over. I have a good amount that are fine, but most are rounded.



Keep up the good work, and don't get discouraged! Your bullets look GREAT for a first attempt! You do have a lot of good shooters in there. We've all been there, and done that. Casting, like most other things, is an art and not an exact science.
My first comment is: What kind of mold are you using (make/model), and how clean is it?
I get rounded bullets if I use a mold that hasn't been cleaned very well.
I take my molds outside and spray them with a carburetor cleaner. Then I put several on one of they eyes of the electric stove, and turn it on to about a "3", and that preheats the molds for me.
I use several molds when I cast. I don't have any duplicates, so I will usually cast with two or three molds, and rotate them. That way, two are resting and cooling while I'm working the third. I get a bunch of bullets this way, and stockpile for calibers that I'm not shooting at the moment.
I drop the bullets into a 5 gallon bucket about half full with water. A collander is in the bottom to catch most of the bullets and keep them off the bottom.
I never add material back to the pot until the pot gets about an inch from the bottom. Adding material back in at any point is OK, but you need to re-flux the pot at that point. That's the only hard and fast rule!
Temps here run 750-800 degrees, except when I run .455 Webley... It likes it hot, and the mold won't cast worth a flip unless I'm running well over 800 degrees... You'll figure out what your molds like in time. I'd go hotter than cooler, and use that as a starting point.
Good Luck!

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[Echo]

IMHO, it looks like you need a little tin in your alloy. Many rounded corners, and the bases not square. Tin lowers the surface tension of the liquid alloy, allowing it to fill the corners. And I mean a little - no more than 3% by weight, and 2% is probably enough. Lead-free solder is available from Grainger for a good price, or mix in some type metal (lino-, mono-stereo-, foundry-, whatever) using grade-school math to come up with 2-3% tin.

Are you using a ladle, or bottom-pour? Whatever, make sure there is a puddle of alloy on top of the sprue plate to provide a reservoir of alloy - as the alloy in the mold cools, it shrinks and draws down from the reservoir. If no reservoir, round-cornered bases...

[Hardcast416taylor]

I feel the main problem is temp. Being as I am a little farther North of you I know the cold weather casting blues (pun intended)! I pre-heat my iron moulds twice, first by laying them on top the pot during inital melt. Secondly, when lead is at pour temp. I dip a corner of the mould into the lead for about 20-30 sec. I get a better head start on good boolits sooner. I also agree with EasyEd about possibly a bit more tin added may help and or a bit more temp. also. :castmine: Robert

[ddeaton]

I use graphite based mould prep by Rapine on all my moulds. I think it helps with fill out.

This mold is the Lee group buy HG28 and is new. I use the Rapine mold prep also, as I have always used it on round balls. I am not going to cool the sprue next time, I think the mold was cooling down after each drop. I like the idea of alternating 2 molds. I am going to do this also.

Why do you drop the boolits into water, other than to cool them faster. Does it harden them a tad more?

[ddeaton]

I use graphite based mould prep by Rapine on all my moulds. I think it helps with fill out.

This mold is the Lee group buy HG28 and is new. I use the Rapine mold prep also, as I have always used it on round balls. I am not going to cool the sprue next time, I think the mold was cooling down after each drop. I like the idea of alternating 2 molds. I am going to do this also.

Why do you drop the boolits into water, other than to cool them faster? Does it harden them a tad more?

[JohnH]

Yes, dropping them into water will harden them, the amount of gained hardness will depend on the temperature differential between the boolit and the water. Using an oven to heat treat is a better method as it offers more control over the process. Typically, water dropping form the mold will produce +/- 18BHN, oven treating is capable of reaching 30 BHN though 21-22 is more likely the norm.

That said, boolits that are 12-15 BHN are more than hard enough for our demands. Air cooled WW will typically reach 9-12 BHN and will perform better than adaquately.

[ddeaton]

Yes, dropping them into water will harden them, the amount of gained hardness will depend on the temperature differential between the boolit and the water. Using an oven to heat treat is a better method as it offers more control over the process. Typically, water dropping form the mold will produce +/- 18BHN, oven treating is capable of reaching 30 BHN though 21-22 is more likely the norm.

That said, boolits that are 12-15 BHN are more than hard enough for our demands. Air cooled WW will typically reach 9-12 BHN and will perform better than adaquately.

John, thanks. Great info. I am going to print this thread for reference

[454PB]

Your mould is not hot enough. I cast at 725 to 750, and fast enough that the boolits are lightly frosted. Quit cooling the mould, and start casting faster. After 30 or so cycles, you will start seeing improvement in fillout, and frost developing on the boolits. Then, either start using two moulds or use the damp sponge/cloth method to control mould temperature.

[ddeaton]

Your mould is not hot enough. I cast at 725 to 750, and fast enough that the boolits are lightly frosted. Quit cooling the mould, and start casting faster. After 30 or so cycles, you will start seeing improvement in fillout, and frost developing on the boolits. Then, either start using two moulds or use the damp sponge/cloth method to control mould temperature.

Yea, I was fumbling around quite a bit. I was trying to cast fast, but was trying to get in the groove and do everything right. I am going to ditch the wet towel on this next try, and maybe try 2 molds.

How fast should the lead flow from the spicket? I tweaked it back a bit and it may have been flowing a tad slow also. I noticed if I didnt hit the opening in the sprue just right, it took longer for the lead to flow into the mold. I guess if the mold is hot enough this shouldnt matter. I had it flowing faster at the start, but was really piling up the excess sprue. Do you guys pour enough to connect the sprues, or try and keep it in seperate puddles? I know the more you waste the faster the pot will empty.

Thanks again for all the tips, it really helps
And Merry Christmas to all

[94Doug]

I agree with the hotter temp. I think maybe your first few casts you could hold the boolits in the mould a little longer too, it might help bring the temp of the mould up a bit faster. It is very true that each mould is different, they each seem to have a mind of their own.

[bbs70]

I cast 252 G Boolits for a 45LC.
I just acquired my first Lee mold last week and have run about 3000 Boolits so far.
I'm laid off during winter months and want to cast as many Boolits as possible because I won't have the time in the summer months.

When I cast I tend to be like everyone else, I get into the groove and want to see how many I can cast per pot.
I have a 20 pound pot and I tend to go a little faster than I should.
Just getting carried away in my old age.:-D

I drop my Boolits in a 5 gal bucket half full of water and the sprues in a seperate bucket of water.
I use a piece of oak to open the sprue cutter and I found out if I dip the oak into the bucket of water ( just enough to moisten the wood ) every couple of minutes and rest it on the sprues before I open the mold that it practically does away with lead smearing on my mold.
Since I keep the oak in my hand when casting and it saves me time and I can cast faster.

It doesn't seem to affect the temp of the mold and I tend to run the pot of metal a little warm to keep the mold hot.

Still not sure if I like the Lee mold though, am thinking about a Lyman mold.

Just my .2 worth

[ddeaton]

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l86/ddeaton2/IMG_1890.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l86/ddeaton2/IMG_1889-1.jpg

Ok, my second session went a lot better. I notice the sprue was a lot easier to cut once the mold got up to temp and even seen some smearing when I tried to cut too soon. Boolits frosted up after the mold got hot. I have read that this is ok? Can you cast with good fill and not get the frost? Is this because I am too hot on the lead pot now? I had it cranked up to 800 on the dial today, no thermometer to check with yet. Merry Christmas

[HeavyMetal]

Those boolits look much better!

Yes you can cast without "frosting" but it is a little more difficult.

This is one of the reasons I use two molds in tandum. MY speed is such that I can fill and set down one 6 banger pick up and fill the second and by the time I set it down the first is just right and ready to open.

Timing on two molds is much easier to get the "rythem" on and with practise much easier to "fall" back into each time you cast.

As long as your boolits look like the one's in the photo Keep on casting!

Now I'll throw in the "monkey" wrench and ask if you've weighed them yet?

Some guys like every one to be within a half grain of each other (good for rifle) but with pistol I have alway felt a"spread" of a couple grains is easy to obtain and you won't be able to tell the difference.

I only weigh to find the extremely light and/or heavy boolits. These are usually 5 to 6 grains or more lighter or heavier than the average for a particular lot of alloy.

These "off" boolits are resonsible for more flyers than I think the average caster realizes.

I wouldn't worry about weights for awhile but some day check it out.

[ddeaton]

Those boolits look much better!

Yes you can cast without "frosting" but it is a little more difficult.

This is one of the reasons I use two molds in tandum. MY speed is such that I can fill and set down one 6 banger pick up and fill the second and by the time I set it down the first is just right and ready to open.

Timing on two molds is much easier to get the "rythem" on and with practise much easier to "fall" back into each time you cast.

As long as your boolits look like the one's in the photo Keep on casting!

Now I'll throw in the "monkey" wrench and ask if you've weighed them yet?

Some guys like every one to be within a half grain of each other (good for rifle) but with pistol I have alway felt a"spread" of a couple grains is easy to obtain and you won't be able to tell the difference.

I only weigh to find the extremely light and/or heavy boolits. These are usually 5 to 6 grains or more lighter or heavier than the average for a particular lot of alloy.

These "off" boolits are resonsible for more flyers than I think the average caster realizes.

I wouldn't worry about weights for awhile but some day check it out.

No, I havent weighed them yet. I am going to weigh and set up my sizer tomorrow. I will post the results and take some pics after lube and size. I am liking this so far and I can see where it will become a little easier when the weather warms.

[opentop]

Looks like some good looking boolits in that pile. I see a few with rounded bases, but I also see a lot of shooters in that pile.



Do you guys pour enough to connect the sprues, or try and keep it in seperate puddles? I know the more you waste the faster the pot will empty.


Connect the spures, it saves time and will also come off on one big piece. It's to hard to make six little spures come out.

Keep up the good work

[ddeaton]

Looks like some good looking boolits in that pile. I see a few with rounded bases, but I also see a lot of shooters in that pile.





Connect the spures, it saves time and will also come off on one big piece. It's to hard to make six little spures come out.

Keep up the good work


Opentop, I am going to sort and weigh today, then try to size and lube. Where do you shoot at? I am in Millville, small world