Lee 356-124-TL...And Other Questions

[jdgabbard]

Alright guys. Just bought the two cavity mold. Plan on casting with WW + .5% tin to load in a Ruger PC9 Carbine. Never loaded 9mm before. So I bought dies a few months back, got some bulk once fired brass, and finally talked the local "good ole boy" reloading supplies shop to order the mold for me. Picked it up a couple of days ago and cast up about a hundred boolits. First I need to get a few questions answered, before I hit the reloading bench.

1) As far as weight goes, these things are weighing about 123g on the average. Ok to just use the 120g load data out of the lyman manual?

2) Sized and deprimed the cases I bought. Aterwards I turned around and tried to trim them. I find it better to make sure they are all in spec. When I tried to stick the trimmer rod thing (lee brand) into the end of the case it is too big to fit in the hole. I checked...yes it is for 9mm. Put it in a drill and lightly sand or file to bring down the diameter?

3) Since this is going to be loaded in a carbine, I am generally worried about leading. The TL boolits do not have much for lube grooves. I think this one has three. I just don't want to be scrubbing lead out of 16 inches of rifle bore. Anyone used this boolit in a 16 inch carbine before? Did it lead?

4) When seating this boolit, to you seat it to where the rim is just below the top of the front driving band? Then a light taper crimp? (Gimme a break, never loaded anything but rimmed revolver...)

5) The LEE TL Alox is super messy. What do you guys use to clean this stuff off of the loaded boolits?

[docone31]

I have that mold, and it is sweet!
I have used the 125gn data. I do not crimp, I set the die just before it crimps.
I also pan lube. Messy, but, I do not get leading. I size to .356.
My loads project a little out of the case. I loaded a case, then fit it to the chamber. I kept doing this untill I got what I thought was a good fit. I set it there now every time.
Good luck with the carbine. I water quench my wheel weight. A great shooting boolitt.

[mooman76]

3g isn't going to make a noticeable difference. Some use mineral spirits or turpintine to cleen the lube off or some just leave it, your choice. You could when you lube them be mare careful. It's more time consuming but just put a little LLA on wax paper and rol the bullets int the LLA with a small straight edge pice of wood. Then pick them up and let dry that way it keeps the lube off the top part. You could also try Johnson Paste wax. It works about the same and is less messy.

[jdgabbard]

docone31, what type of lube you using for pan lubing? Right now I have some 1 pt beeswax to 1 part Paraffin to 1/2 jar Vaseline. Think it might work ok...but just doesn't leave much lube on TL boolits. I tried it on some of my 358-158-SWC-TL boolits....I didn't even load them as it just didn't seem like enough lube. Whats your thoughts on this?

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

The 3 grain difference from your bullet to the loading manual is not a problem - just start low and work up.

With 9mm the seating depth can be more critical than a revolver round because you're almost always running near 100% density. Of course I've never found published load data specifically for Lee bullets. So I will call Lyman or RCBS or whoever makes the bullet that is in the recipe that I intend to use. I get the bullet length from them, then calculate the seating depth based on the OAL in the recipe. Then using that seating depth, I calculate the new OAL for my Lee bullets and load to that.

I have not had a problem with the Lee tumble lube SO LONG AS I LET IT DRY SUFFICIENTLY. Depending on temp and humidity it can take a few hours to all day.

If you want to fix your problems with messy stuf while loading smokeless just take up Blackpowder. You smokeless powder messes will be instantly cured! The only thing that changes will be your perspective.

[jack19512]

Put it in a drill and lightly sand or file to bring down the diameter?








I don't think I would do that. I have several of the lee case trimmers and have never had a problem. There might be something else going on. Did you try to trim the case before you sized it?

[jdgabbard]

I don't think I would do that. I have several of the lee case trimmers and have never had a problem. There might be something else going on. Did you try to trim the case before you sized it?

No. I am decapping with a standard 9mm sizing die, so it is necessary to trim after sizing. I thought it was a little weird too. I started into the flash hole, then as soon as the thickest part of the trimmer goes to enter the case mouth it locks up solid. I mean if you try and turn it the case will slip out of the shell holder. It locks up that tight. I think it was just left too big, thats why I suggested trying to lathe turn it on a poor man's lathe.

Any other suggestions?

[TAWILDCATT]

trim after sizing if the pilot wont fit .course I have never trimmed pistol cases.
and









trim before sizing.course I have never trimmed pistol cases.
who cant find loads for lee lead bullets.get LEEs reloading book.I counted 20 loads min.
jdgabbard why waste tin you dont need it .WW has enuf in it.

if you dont want mess with tumble lube just put the lube in small container and dip them and set on base on wax paper.:coffee:[smilie=1:.











ihave loaded for 70 yrs.

[TAWILDCATT]

trim before sizing.course I have never trimmed pistol cases.
who cant find loads for lee lead bullets.get LEEs reloading book.I counted 20 loads min.
jdgabbard why waste tin you dont need it .WW has enuf in it.
I have loaded for 70 yrs.
if you dont want mess with tumble lube just put the lube in small container and dip them and set on base on wax paper.:coffee:[smilie=1:.

[HeavyMetal]

What brand case's do you have?

I've been reloading 9 mm for 25 years and some case's are tighter than others and will cause the trimming rod to stick! I have also had this issue with 357 case's and some 44's although very rarely!

If you have mixed case's and they all stick, yep, check the rod diameter! Doesn't mean your sizing die isn't to tight, that can be the problem as well, it just means after you check the rod check everything else!

[jdgabbard]

Cases are Rem and Win. They don't look to be out of spec, but I like to trim them down just to be safe. The reason I use tin is because the WW aloy I have is just a tad soft. And I don't care for the tumble lube because it is:

1) Messy

2) Doesn't leave much lube in the grooves.

3) I don't trust the minute amount of lube to work very well in a 16" barrel.

I get more consistent loads on every other pistol caliber when I trim. I think this is mostly to do with the consistent crimp. I.e. - Each loaded round is crimped exactly like the one before or after.

[Treeman]

I use 124-125 grain data. Watch your seating depth. TL works great. LLA WORKS GREAT!!!!!! I know lots of people just can't seem to bring themselves to trust it but it works. On everything. All I lube with is LLA. I don't have leading issues in any of my guns.(Well I just lied- I have one .22rimfire that likes to fill one groove with lead-I'm thinking of using LLA on .22 ammo for that gun.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

who cant find loads for lee lead bullets.get LEEs reloading book.I counted 20 loads min.

Lee's reloading books contain data specific for Lee's molds? I know they have generic data for "cast bullets". But never seen any load developed specifically for a Lee cast bullet (pistol) - not like Lyman manuals have anyway.

[Ricochet]

Lee's book contains loads gathered from other sources.

If you want data developed specifically for those boolits, you're going to have to do it yourself. With any published data, you should start low, work up and basically develop it yourself anyway. Published data are reasonable suggestions to start with.

[r6487]

I would make the assumption that if the trimmer pilot locks up when attempting to trim "after sizing" what you have done is re-sized the case and the case mouth is undersized--that is why straight walled caliber die sets usually have 3 dies--one being to bell the case mouth adequately to begin seating the bullet. If you decide you need the case decapped prior to trimming I would latch onto an RCBS Universal decapping die, which will decap the cases without resizing them. As for the 123 gr weight, keep in mind that a heavier bullet substituted for a given load (with a slightly lighter bullet) will give you a little higher pressures. I have loaded tons of 9mm for pistols and 3 Fullauto smg's. Using 125 grain loads with your 123 gr bullet will do just fine. Using the 123 gr with a published 120 gr load will give a little higher pressure.

[SCIBUL]

Hello.
Don't loose your time to trim the cases. Pistol ones aren't revolver ones ! I mean that pistol cases, and especially 9x19 aren't straight walls but conical They are only straight when they just have been fired. If you sized them before try to trim, the pilot won't fit. The second particularity is that pistol cases never increase in lenght. This is due to the alimentation system that generaly "compress" (I don't know if this is the exact term :-?) the brass. Try to find several used cases and measure them, you will find they are a bit shorter. Hope this will help.

[jdgabbard]

The second particularity is that pistol cases never increase in lenght. This is due to the alimentation system that generaly "compress" (I don't know if this is the exact term :-?) the brass. Try to find several used cases and measure them, you will find they are a bit shorter. Hope this will help.

Scibul, your wrong. I can show you plenty of Cases that I personally have trimmed because they have stretched. They may not stretch much from firing to firing, but they DO stretch. Enough to give inconsistent crimps.

[SCIBUL]

Wow !
I was sure for instance ! This kind of things occured in the 2 9para pistols I had and in the .45 a always have. But, do you crimp your ammunitions ? I don't with semi-auto ones... Mmmmmmm that makes me perplexed. Real sorry if I misled you.

[jdgabbard]

I give auto cartridges a extremely light taper crimp, and I give revolver cartridges a light roll crimp. I've had 38spl cases that needed an 1/8 inch trimmed off to be proper length. Yet they seem to still have thick enough walls to be useful. This was on some old Rem brass an old timer gave me. Pistol cases may not stretch much, even less with light cast loads, but they do stretch. The stretching is caused by the excessive headspace. Which to an extent most factory firearms have. A look at any revolver will show that when a round is in the chamber aligned with the barrel that it will move back and forth a slight amount. Most autos suffer from this same issue.

Once fired the case moves back, fully seating itself against the bolt/breach face, pressure goes up and the case expands, the boolit moves forward. It is a combination of these things that cause cases to stretch. Take a look at any reloading manual for a more in depth look at why this happens. The the skinny on it is, that it does happen. Even in pistol cartridges. Why would they sell trimmer rods for pistol cartridges if it didn't ever happen?

[Treeman]

Straightwalled cases tend to stretch little in normal loadings (But they can and do stretch). Straight walled cases that headspace on the rim can actually shorten-this is a fairly common phenomena in the.45 acp.

[jdgabbard]

Straightwalled cases tend to stretch little in normal loadings (But they can and do stretch). Straight walled cases that headspace on the rim can actually shorten-this is a fairly common phenomena in the.45 acp.

I am assuming you mean the case mouth? If they chamber on the rim I would see it as quite the opposite.

[OBXPilgrim]

If you run the long cases into your die to bell the case mouth - adjust the die where the sizing portion goes into the mouth but short of flaring it. The sizer (1st die) swages it down to size but the mouth is too small for the trimmer plug to go in on some brands of brass.

Part way into the flaring die will open it up enough to get the pilot in it.

Just went through the same thing with some 45 acp brass this weekend.