View Full Version : 25-20 '92 Winchester SRC - candidate for barrel relining?
12-26-2005, 10:27 PM
The candidate is a well worn 25-20 SRC half magazine '92 Winchester - 1907 - that I'd like to turn into a fun shooter. It's current bore looks like it has had quite a few rounds through it - with neglect apparent.
I think that whoever originally owned this well balanced little saddle gun must have enjoyed shooting it but did not care much about for taking care of it.
Shopping on Track of the Wolf's website I see that their .257, 1 in 14 barrel liners for 25-20 have an OD 7/16" - not a whole lot smaller than the original 25-20 '92 SRC barrel. The 32-20 liners (another attractive thought!) offered by the same outfit have a 1/2" OD - perhaps a more difficult fit yet?
I'm guessing that most of these liners are going into the heavier octagon rifle barrels other than into the thinner carbines - and wonder if these thin carbine barrels are suitable for lining.
Has anyone here ever had a thin carbine barrel relined? How did it work out, and, if so . . . if I may ask . . . who did the work for you?
My goal is to create another fun plinking device - and a new addition to my growing arsenal of close range Montana gopher plunkers.
I just found this site - this, my first post. After casting and shooting such for years - 22 Hornet to .577 Snider - it is great to find this terrific, and fun, resource.
Thanks for any suggestions regarding my potential 25-20 revamp - nice to meet everyone. I look forward to visiting more with y'all soon.
Snoqualmie River Valley - rural Western Washington [smilie=2:
12-27-2005, 06:05 AM
Jay, I have first hand knowledge of a 1920 vintage M92 25-20 rifle, round bbl, what was relined. It was the right choice of options. The gun still looks all original, but can now shoot again. Family heirloom of sorts, so the resources required to restore it were certainly worth in. sundog
12-27-2005, 08:49 AM
Thank you for your comments. Is the '92 your own, or, if not - do you happen to know who did the liner work?
12-27-2005, 10:06 PM
I think Sundog's very right about relining being the only way to get some of these old guns back perkin' again. I have an elderly friend who collects 1890 Winchester .22 pumps, and he's had a number of them relined. The finished work depends very much on who does the work, and whether you're willing to pay for the best grade work. Mostly who does the work, though, really. He's had work done that was so good you'd really have to look CLOSE to detect it, and others where the liner was obvious. I think (?) he's used at least 3 people for this work, and he had a falling out with one of them, but said he did do good work. He just didn't like the man's attitude. Welcome to dealing with gunsmiths, or anybody else for that matter, eh? I'll try to contact him and get some names for you if you like, but it's really just a matter of careful work, like all of gunsmithing, really. Then again, if you've ever done any crafting or gunsmithing yourself, you know that sometimes the magic's there, and some days it just rains. :???: I guess it all boils down, in the end, to the old Clint Eastwood comment, "Do you feel lucky?"
There's a variation in dia. and consistency of dia. in liners, as with anything mass produced, and this variation, along with the variation of the drills used to drill the barrels out for the liners, combine to make the whole thing a bit "iffy" if you're looking for an undetectable installation. If you're willing to pay for the extra work, a liner can be turned to a specific diameter, and the drill ground to an amenable and compatible diameter also. All this difference boils down to whether you mind seeing a slight "ring" around the liner when it's installed, which most of us really don't mind all that much.
The drills follow the original bore pretty well, and the more uniform the bore, the better the result. However, nobody drills out pristine bores for a liner, and I suspect that at least much of the size of the ring at the muzzle end is due to that factor, which no gunsmith can control of course, and which depends on the gun you give him to work with.
FWIW, all the guns he's had relined have shot very well, whether that little ring at the muzzle is visible or not. Hope this helps at least a little?
BTW, he's got the drill and extensions to reline himself now. He's a semi-retired 86 yr. old dentist who still likes a challenge, and his dental work has prepared him to do some real precision work. Also, one of the guys he's had do some restoration work for him no longer does this type of work now. Several folks advertise in the trade pubs, like Shotgun News and some of the glossies, and you just don't hear of many folks utilizing this too seldom seen benefit when it comes to making old guns perk again. I'll see what I can find out for you.
12-27-2005, 11:19 PM
Thanks for input. Yes - anything you may find out regarding recommended souls that I might "try my luck" with in tackling the job would be greatly appreciated.
One of the thoughts that I've had is that the small outside diameter of the carbine barrel itself might be an issue. It'd end up more liner than barrel towards the muzzle.
Good to hear of your retired Dentist friend. I'm fond of shooting the 1890 & Mod. 62 pumps as well, although have not had any of mine relined as yet. My favorite 1890 short is a bit brown in the barrel, but seems to shoot pretty well in spite of such. Of course with the cheap ammo available, not all rounds have to find their mark for the shooting to be fun.
However, with the 25-20 and the extra time and care involved in assembling the ammo, it would be well worth while to have a fine - new - bore to do it justice.
I was lucky enough to find a sharp bored original 32-20 Win. Mod 53 a little while back. That little gun has been such joy to shoot that it seems I should try and get this old SRC to do the same.
Thanks again - and for any further info that might turn up.
12-28-2005, 05:52 AM
Lee Shaver. Just google his name and you'll find him. sundog
12-28-2005, 06:43 AM
Thank you very much, Sundog!
I'll look him up-
12-29-2005, 06:17 PM
Another one to check with is John Taylor Machine Works (I think) in your neck of the woods.
I've corresponded with him in the past about relining a 38-55 Octagon barrel I have for a Winchester '94.
12-29-2005, 07:41 PM
I can't offer a current name, but a quality reline job should be no problem, ask for references. Nearly 40 years ago I had a M 92 .25/20 round barrel carbine relined by Ward Koozer in Oregon. The only visible evidence was a barely visible ring at the muzzle, and it was perfectly centered. The carbine shot very well, and the chamber was good. the only downside was that Mr. Koozer had my rifle for nearly a year!
12-30-2005, 06:23 PM
Thank you very much for the information and tips. It looks like the reline of this 25-20 certainly should be do-able. I'll fire a follow up as the pproject progresses.
BTW, NV curmudgeon - back in 1970 I had a Ward Koozer rebored 45-70 '86 Winchester. Took it to Kodiak Island with me while in the CG up there. Ward did very nice work, although that one took about a year as well.
12-31-2005, 02:13 PM
Have you checked with Numrich Gun Parts to see if they have a barrel for it?
That would be a lot faster than a reline job, unless you are prepared to do it yourself.
I'm relining an octagon M94 Marlin right now. Yes the carbine can be relined, but you need a good lathe and a good rest to do the job. You can drill about 1/2" to 3/4" and then you have to pull the drill and clean and lube and go at it again. It takes about 1 1/2 hours just to drill the hole. I generally then check the bore for straight and set the liner with acraglass dyed black. If you change from 25 to 32 you may need new ctg guides. Sometimes they will feed ok and sometimes not. I have had re-lined barrels shoot better than new factory guns, it all depends how carefull you work. I am NOT doing re lines for a business at this time. I do one now and again for a freind who is NOT in a hurry. My last big reline project was a complete restoration on a Ballard #5 Pacific in 38-55. Re lined, new stock, and re fit breech block and replace all pins. It took two years, but the gun is now as tight as new and will shoot into 1 1/2" at 100 yards with Ballard Peep and BPC. If you try the job yourself you will need a chambering reamer (65.00) a deep hole drill/piloted (35.00) without extension and the use of a lathe. I would not try the thin carbine bbl without a lathe, but for a heavy barrel 22 you can get by with a 1/2" drill and patience. I think Doc Carlson at Upper Missouri in Crofton, NE still does this and the last time I checked he was charging $125.00 with a 3 mo turn around. (402-388-4844)
01-02-2006, 09:33 AM
Thank you very much fellas for the info and thanks to KCSO the technical input.
I fire an update as things progess on this little 25.
All the Best for the New Year!
Have you tried to see how the rifle shoots as is? I have a M92 in 25 WCF that was made in 1901. It took me the better part of a day to get the bore cleaned. The end result was a dark bore with what appears to be diminished rifling. The first loads I shot in it where the 86gr Remingtons and they shot quite well, much to my suprise around 1" at 50 yards with a tang sight and minimal load development. I've since started using cast bullets sized to .2585 to fill the bore fully and it shoots like a top, ugly bore and all.
Not trying to discourage what you want to do, but I would do some shooting with it first to see if it needs relining.
01-02-2006, 10:31 PM
Same statement as that of kciH. I have a Marlin 27-S pump in 25-20 that has a pretty casual bore, but it shoots the Speer 75 FP's pretty well.
01-03-2006, 09:57 PM
Thanks kciH & Deputy Al,
You know, I have not really wrung this old bore out to see how it might do. I've been relying on long past experience with this caliber. I had a '92 25-20 30 years ago with an ify looking dark bore. Back then my efforts centered around a .257 sizer die and lyman die 257420gc. The available information then was pretty scetchy - plus, back then we were only talking about a $100.00 gun. When my 25-20 did'nt shoot, it was just spun off without asking any more questions. I never even slugged the bore.
Having this Cast Boolits Forum changes everything.
Will send an update with result of efforts with the original bore. I have a like new lyman 258312GC mold, a .258 sizer die, and some Rem. factory 86 grainers and load data from this site and others - we'll see.
Thanks again to all,
01-04-2006, 08:08 AM
I spent a bit of time with my Marlin 94CL in 25-20 this year, using Lyman #'s 257420 and 257312 to contrast results with the 75 Speer "redcoats". Castings did not impress until I did some major tweaking with "312", involving neck sizing, pistol primers, and very close/even case trims. Just for grins, yesterday I fired some of the j-word Speers from this rifle, and sure enough they grouped very well as they had before--but every 10-shot group showed 1-3 fliers that spoiled the 1.25"-1.5" @ 100 yard clusters. I think there's a rifle problem, in other words--Buckshot, who looked on yesterday, called it "levergunitis". There's some work to do, in other words.
Best of luck with that critter.
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