Custom Mould Problem

[Gellot Wilde]

Just received a custom mould from a reputable US manufacturer and was loking forward to some casting this afternoon.

When the mould arrived, the test bullet was left in the mould but surprisingly wouldn't drop, even after repeated tapping.

Not to be deterred (I wondered if some oil had gotten down the back holding it in a little tighter) I cleaned the mould and got to casting.

Using a 30:1 mix, the bullets stuck everytime in the same side (sprue plate hinge pin side) and virtually needed to be hammered out. Tapping on the hinge pin did nothing, I eneded up having to tap on the end of the block before the bullet would drop.

I had a similar problem a while back with a new RCBS mould, in fact two, both turned out to be faulty...burrs on the grease-grooves.

Am I misssing something here, anything at all?

I have been casting for a good few years now (over 15) and have rarely had this kind of problem.

I normally use mould prep, but on this one it advises not to use it, especially in the cavity.

Any ideas to help me out guys....?

[longbow]

It may be as simple as you last problem ~ burrs around the cavities. It doesn't take much! Or it could be the cavities are a little off center, again, it doesn't take much.

Are these aluminum or iron blocks?

If it is an expensive mould (custom usually are) and it is a real problem to use it may be best to inform the manufacturer and possibly send it back. Once you mess with it they won't fix it.

Mould release or smoking would be my next route. It may help and with a bit of casting things may improve.

If it is still a problem it is likely small burrs. I have used a hard pin (shank of a small drill bit) and lightly dragged it around the cavities holding at a slight angle to the cavity edge to force any small burrs outwards. If the mould is aluminum you have to be very careful. This does not remove any material and if done carefully will not remove the crisp edge from the cavity split.

If that doesn't work I would then lap it with very fine lapping compound like JB bore paste. I have lapped moulds with valve lapping compound but you have to be very careful or you will open the mould up too much. All you are looking for is to remove any small burrs on sharp edges.

Lots of good info here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=32584

and there are mould lapping articles here:

http://www.castpics.net/

Longbow

[HeavyMetal]

Checking for burrs a good tip.

Then I'd take a very sharp No. 2 pencil and trace the lube groove "shoulders" with it and try casting again!

[Gellot Wilde]

Thank you very much for that fast replies and the links, it's very much appreciated especially as I'm pulling my hair out here.

These are iron blocks, $150.00 iron blocks so I'm pretty surprised that it needs such force for the bullet to drop, you would have thought it would have been easy from the word go. I think at that sort of money it would be sense as you say to get in touch with the manufacturer to see if he wants it back before I set about modifying it.

These little things are sent to test us as they say. :-?

[montana_charlie]

I would also suggest that you contact the maker for advice, or rework. If it's truly a 'custom' mould, I wouldn't even trim off burrs before talking with the maker.

But, while you're waiting for his reply, try changing your casting rythmn by letting the bullet stay in the mould a while longer before cutting the sprue and trying to dump it out.
Then, tap the handle hinge firmly a time or two before opening the blocks.

I agree that it 'sounds' rather pointless and ineffectual, but it sometimes helps.
CM

[Gellot Wilde]

Yeah good advice Charlie, tried changing my casting rythmn but to no avail, like you say it does sometimes help but not in this instance.

Gonna give it another go in the morning then it's gonna have to go back if it don't drop clean.

It truely is a custom mould.....I'm just not saying who's in case it's me been a total idiot.

[badgeredd]

Yeah good advice Charlie, tried changing my casting rythmn but to no avail, like you say it does sometimes help but not in this instance.

Gonna give it another go in the morning then it's gonna have to go back if it don't drop clean.

It truely is a custom mould.....I'm just not saying who's in case it's me been a total idiot.

GW,

I'd like to know how this turns out for you, either way. If the manufacturer takes it back and does so cheerfully and makes it right, I'd like to know for future reference. If he doesn't take it back cheerfully to make it right, I'd DEFINITELY like to know.

I imagine it is frustrating but I know things can be overlooked and the way it is corrected will make a difference to me if I want to order from the same person/manufacturer.

Good luck with it.

Edd

[Gellot Wilde]

Thanks for that Edd, I'll certainly keep you all posted how this turns out either way. I tend to err on the side of 'it must be me' before doubting the skill of a good mould maker, it still could be. This here mould has travelled a long way to get to me and it's a long way to send it back so before I do that I obviously need to explore a few different ideas thanks to the good suggestions on here.

When I had the same type of problem with the RCBS moulds, I got to speak with RCBS who said 'well they need a break-in period'....ok, new one on me but this is RCBS! As I had got the moulds through Buffalo Arms, I spoke with their mould making guy and told him what RCBS had said...he just laughed. He said that the first bullet you ever drop from a new mould is gonna be the best one ever, after that it's all called wear. He also said that the bullet should drop when the mould is opened or with a minimum of a couple of taps with the mould mallet. Both moulds turned out to be faulty and not my casting routine...I did try all sorts with them, even different alloys and temps...but with no luck at all. Buffalo Arms were brilliant as usual, they even apologised for the inconvenience which was very kind, especially as it was RCBS's moulds at fault....it's a good company Mr. Gullo runs there.

Thanks again to all for your imput, it's all been of use to me for sure.

[Gellot Wilde]

After another attempt yesterday to cast, I was slightly more successful but had to whack it pretty hard on the hinge pin an opposing side to get the bullet to drop. I also noticed that the mould wasn't shutting properly, even after a tap with the mould mallet.

Got in touch with the mould maker who replied instantly. I cannot fault the response times at all or the helpfulness responses, very good indeed. The sugestion is to use wire wool on a bore brush in the mould cavity to help release the bullet easier without so much use of the mallet.

To get the mould to close properly he suggested closing it tightly on the handles and then hitting it on one side (obviously on the front of the handles where they meet the mould) with the mould mallet. I tried this last night and bingo, after several hard smacks with the mallet it now shuts nice and tight with no daylight showing as before.

I guess I'm just not brutal enough but then all my other production moulds have never needed the mallet treatment to close them....I must have been lucky. So hopefully after I've had the steel wool in, it should be ok.

I have to admit this is the first custom mould I have ever bought I just didn't expect to have to use the mallet as much and certainly didn't expect the bullet to stick like sh!t to a blanket. With all my other moulds I rarely have to use the mallet, just a gloved hand for cutting the sprue and the bullets just fall out when the moulds are open. I have one Lyman .45 480gn mould which sticks a bit but a quick tap with my hand and the bullet drops!

Rightly or wrongly I thought a custom mould was the best you could get and all these teething probs would have been dealt with before it was sent out? Maybe I'm just expecting too much guys?

The saga continues. :coffeecom

[Catshooter]

Gellot,

I have alot of experiense with Lee customs, limited with NEI, none with anyone else's. All moulds are made by humans, thus subjet to error. A custom isn't made to a higher standard, there are just made to a non-standard (for the maker) design.

Good luck with this one. Chances are that whoever the maker is they will stand behind their work.


Cat

[Heavy lead]

The first custom mould I ever had I hated at first. I used a piece of sos pad (wetted with hot water after I pre-heated it with almost boiling water) around a appropriate size bronze bore brush and a cordless drill (disclaimer: I'm a very impatient person, and sometimes do things in haste). After that it became my favorite mould. My favorite and most accurate rifle was like this too, hated it at first, had to break it in and be patient, I love it now.
Good Luck, hope things work right, if they don't I'm sure the maker will make it right.

[DLCTEX]

If I pay $150 for a mold it had better drop boolits like butter and close without having to be whacked, or I'm going to be looking for a refund. Otherwise I'll just order from Lee if I'm going to have to leement it to get it to cast.

[Gellot Wilde]

Well Dale I'm kinda of the same opinion, when you add the over-the-pond postage it's getting closer to a $180 mould. I've sent some photos and am waiting on a respose, took them with the mould at casting temp and you can clearly see the light getting through as it just won't close properly no matter how hard I try.

Cat, yeah I hear ya, maybe I was wrong to expect a higher standard than say Lyman or RCBS but I certainly wasn't expecting a lower standard for twice as much money.

At this stage I'm totally underwhelmed by the whole 'custom' experience. :cry:

[Gellot Wilde]

The first custom mould I ever had I hated at first. I used a piece of sos pad (wetted with hot water after I pre-heated it with almost boiling water) around a appropriate size bronze bore brush and a cordless drill (disclaimer: I'm a very impatient person, and sometimes do things in haste). After that it became my favorite mould. My favorite and most accurate rifle was like this too, hated it at first, had to break it in and be patient, I love it now.
Good Luck, hope things work right, if they don't I'm sure the maker will make it right.


That's funny, yeah I'm like that to the letter, have gotten a bit better with age. Same with the rifle, my most accurate BPCR I hated it the first time I took it out, now I love it and do pretty well with it if I may be so bold as to claim that. [smilie=1:

Thanks for the kind words, your post struck a chord with me. :-D

[e15cap]

if you run your finger along the edge of the bullet cavity you can feel the burr. Lay a jewelers file Flat on the mold block and hold it down with the tip of your finger. Slide it back and forth across the block, change directions, and you should remove the burrs that occur during manufacturing. Using the highest magnification you can get, inspect the edge of the cavity where the bullet hangs up and check for a burr. When you find it, and you will, use a needle file and very gently and carefully insert the file into the cavity and pull towards you. Not hard as all you want to do is remove the burr, not enlarge the cavity. Try tapping the alignment pins in as you may have a problem there also. Test by taking off the handles and wringing the blocks, twist them, should not be any movement.
Don't be too hard on your mold maker. any machining process will leave some burr, can't be helped. I routinely tap all of my molds, closed, to ensure consistant closing.
Hope this helps, Roger

[Gellot Wilde]

Well it's good news for me today, a replacement is on it's way, and has instructed me to throw the other in the bin!

How's that for service, as you can imagine I'm very pleased.

Thanks again for all the very useful info & ideas fellas.

[clintsfolly]

please let us know who gives this good service? have fun clint