Smelting Question - Lighting Flux Fumes?!

[Airweight38]

From the "Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook" (circa 1975):

"Tin is separated during the melting process because it is lighter than lead, thus floating to the top. To put this tin back into your bullet alloy, you must flux the metal in the pot. This is a simple operation. All you do is drop a small bit of bullet lubricant or beeswax into the metal. It will melt and begin to smoke.

Immediately light a match and ignite the gas rising from the surface, then stir the mixture repeatedly, working the floating tin through the lead beneath it."

Okay, here's my question. Why, why, why do they say to light the fumes? I tried it today and it didn't work. However, I found that if I put a big enough chunk of flux in (about the size of a small gumball), it caught fire for a minute. What's the deal?

Just curious.

Thanks,

Jason

[docone31]

Mostly, it seems to me, lighting the flux kills the odor. I have never lit it, I kinda like the smell of superheated beeswax.
Doesn't really help the flux, or so it seems to me. Just kills the odor.

[2muchstuf]

I light it up just to get rid of the smoke.
Mostly, I use an oak stick about 3/4" by 1/2", seems to work just fine.
2

[Bent Ramrod]

There's either lighting the fumes or smelling up the area with the fumes. If you use aromatherapy scented candle wax for flux, you might not want to light the fumes. Otherwise, especially if you use bullet lube mixtures for flux, you will have a pretty smelly time of it.

Remember also that heavy hydrocarbon fumes eventually precipitate out of the air to coat all available surfaces, including the insides of lungs. That stuff isn't very water soluble, so it's liable to stay in the lungs for quite some time.

I light a candle and hold it horizontally to allow the wax to drip in the pot. I stir with the other hand and light the fumes with the candle as they come out of the pot. By raising or lowering the candle, I can increase or decrease the amount of wax dripping in for flux, as well as relighting the candle from the flames in the pot if it happens to go out. When fluxing is done, I raise the candle, blow it out, and stir until the flames go out in the pot. The metal is then ready to go.

When the candle gets to short to do this without singeing gloves or hands, I melt it onto a metal holder and continue until it is too short to bother with. By then, it's short enough for the classic throw-the-lump-in-the-pot routine, and it's time for a new candle.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Hi, You have to use enough of the flux so that there is something to burn. I use a 3/8 inch slice of an ordinary candle. It starts smoking right away and that's when I toss in the lighted match. It usually catches fire immediately. The purpose in doing that is to reduce the smoke which stinks...and will stink up the whole house. Its better to cast or smelt in a well ventilated area anyway. Outdoors is ok, but watch out for rain or the kid next door waving his water pistol. You don't want a visit from the Tinsel Fairy. There's lots of alternative possible flux agents that work; Marvelux (which doesn't smoke or smell) sold in different size cans, oiled sawdust, wax sealing rings (for toilets), pine sticks, and bullet lube which is expensive are just some of things that will work. As for when to flux, usually when the melt starts to pour "stringy" or "clingy" or when there is a lot of crud/oxide floating around on the top of the melt, or if bullets start ot appear with crud showing on them. Some casters flux often, sometimes every ten, twenty or 25 pours, or more. Thats something you have to decide. Be sure to use the opportunity to clean/scrape the sides and bottom of the pot to get as much of what doesn't belong there to rise to the top, stir and skim the melt before going back to the pouring. Enjoy the casting and good shooting. LLS

[Airweight38]

I'm seeing posts about aromatherapy candles and toilet wax rings.

Is this a just-as-good way to flux? Because if it is, I will happily stop spending six dollars per tube on this Lyman Bullet Lube stuff. Maybe go buy a new camping stove or something. :)

Incidentally, I smelt outside and upwind, so the odor doesn't bother me so much, so that isn't so much of a factor on my end.

[Railbuggy]

I dident have any flux yesterday so I used gun oil.At 800%,it lit it self.

[crabo]

I'm seeing posts about aromatherapy candles and toilet wax rings.

Is this a just-as-good way to flux? Because if it is, I will happily stop spending six dollars per tube on this Lyman Bullet Lube stuff. Maybe go buy a new camping stove or something. :)

Incidentally, I smelt outside and upwind, so the odor doesn't bother me so much, so that isn't so much of a factor on my end.

Man, you need to stop using that $6 a tube stuff for everything! Tell us what you are casting for and you will get a lot of good suggestions on how to make your money go farther. Check at Lar's at the bottom of the page.

Good products, great prices.

[Heavy lead]

Man, you need to stop using that $6 a tube stuff for everything! Tell us what you are casting for and you will get a lot of good suggestions on how to make your money go farther. Check at Lar's at the bottom of the page.

Good products, great prices.

+1 I don't have time to make my own lube like some. Lars stuff is just as good and in my opinion better (I use BAC and love it) and tons cheaper, great service too.

[timkelley]

I use a 3/4 inch cutoff from a Douglas Fir or Pine board, in other words a stick, to stir with and some sawdust (again Fir or Pine) as flux. No need to spend a lot of money.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Okay, now you`ve seen and read about everything from soup to nuts for fluxing your pot. Believe me I tried most everything too right up to, but not, cat litter. I still fall back to using 3 main types of fluxing. First is a bit of candle wax , it is exciting to watch it self-ignite when stirring a hot pot! Secondly I add reject bullets that were lubed before seeing their flaws. I use a large spoon to add the bullets back into the pot slowly to avoid being silver freckled. And lastly I use marvaflux, simply because it doesn`t smoke or burn and because I have been given about 10 lbs of it from other casters or from gifts. A friend recently gave me about 6 lbs of a homemade lube that is beeswax and parafin mostly, it turned out to be what he didn`t want in a lube. So I may start using some of that for flux next melt.. Basically what I and everybody else is saying here is use what you may have, odds are it has already been used before by somebody. On the topic of when to flux, myself, I flux about every 25 to 30 pours. It may not always be the same amt. of pours between fluxing but it still gets done. Good casting! :castmine: Robert

[FirstBrit]

I'm seeing posts about aromatherapy candles and toilet wax rings.

Is this a just-as-good way to flux? Because if it is, I will happily stop spending six dollars per tube on this Lyman Bullet Lube stuff. Maybe go buy a new camping stove or something. :)

Incidentally, I smelt outside and upwind, so the odor doesn't bother me so much, so that isn't so much of a factor on my end.

An economical alternative to bullet lube is plain vanilla bar soap like Ivory. Bar soap like Ivory will not create fumes or smoke - the melting point is too high. Small pieces on the surface of your melt will sizzle initially, this is just simply the residual moisture boiling off. When stirred into the melt it will separate dross nicely. If you use too much or your alloy is very clean to start with the dross will be like a gooey mess of tar. Used just right and you'll have a greyish crumbly mix. Unscented soaps are probably better than the ones with fragrance, but thats probably just a matter of taste.

Best regards,
FirstBrit, Germany.

[Tom Herman]

I light it up just to get rid of the smoke.
Mostly, I use an oak stick about 3/4" by 1/2", seems to work just fine.
2

I use a gas torch to ignite the wax, flux, bullet lube, or whatever it is that's smoking in the melt.
It's easier to see what's going on in the pot through flames than thick smoke.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[Airweight38]

Man, you need to stop using that $6 a tube stuff for everything! Tell us what you are casting for and you will get a lot of good suggestions on how to make your money go farther. .

Well,

Right now I'm smelting ~160gr .358 DEWCs to shoot as .38SPL. Like I said, I'm new to casting, so yesterday was my first experience actually doing it.

In the past, I've lubed bullets others have cast and given to me using Lee Liquid Alox and I love the stuff. Way easier than caking or whatever. But that, again is like $6/bottle, so I could go for something to use in place of that as well. I'm using a Lee sizer ($18) to bring derelicts down to .358.

And like I said, I used the Lyman stuff for flux, but after reading this thread, I'm starting to consider wax toilet rings because there is a LOT of wax in one, and they cost like $4, if memory serves. I would also think they would be purer (less polluted) than soap or candles? Seems like there are a lot of choices. I'm a big believer in Occam's Razor when it comes to reloading.

Anyway, I also have a mold for .44Magnum, which I will eventually pour as well (and start using gas checks) and I'd like to get a 6-cavity for heavier .358 FPs or SWCs as well to shoot in my .357.

[Gunslinger]

I've had candles ignite on their own! Is this cause the melt is too hot :coffeecom?? Most often it fumes and I just let it smoke!

[Junior1942]

I haven't used flux in about 20 years, and my bullets come out just fine. Fluxing bullet alloy to keep the tin in solution is like fluxing sea water to keep the salt in solution--or so I was told long ago by a metalurgist. But if you think a smoke offering to the gods of the silver stream might help, go ahead as it can't hurt.

[SharpsShooter]

An oak or pine slat stick works fine. No lube, candle, parafin, sawdust or tongue of bat required. Stir slowly, scrape the sides of the pot,skim off the dross and get to casting

SS