what am I missing?

[pharmpoke]

Ok- I've been hanging out here, bought the Lyman manual, have my first bucket of grimy wheel weights(cigarette butts,transmissiion fluid, and all), a bar of linotype, and brick of lead. I have a Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter in 44mag and plan on hunting mule deer and antelope with it (I've already worked up some Hornady XTP's that will work fine) but would like to take a chance of catching the casting bug. I assume at hunting load velocity I'll need gas checked bullets. I'm leaning towards 240gr bullet weight range. I also shoot a S&W 686 and will want plinker 158gr swc bullets/loads for it. I have a camp chief 2 burner propane unit & dutch oven to smelt with. With Santa coming in a few weeks, help me with the rest of my list of needed items: welding gloves, safety goggles, cotton clothes, slotted skimmer spoon, candle wax for fluxing, ingot molds, dipper, furnace for casting, casting ladle, molds, mold handles, luber/sizer, lube, sizing dies, top punch, gas checks. What am I missing? I slugged my 44mag and measured .415/.430 grooves/lands??may have the two mixed up, but you get the point. I'm leaning to lyman or rcbs for the molds- what do you recommend as for bullet design and which size for this revolver. I don't want el-cheapo, but don't want Mrs. Claus to be ticked off either. Give me some recommendations for brands, etc., on all the stuff I need. Ball park me a figure of how much it will all cost for what I need to get started, or can I do without some of it? I know with reloading you can buy kits like the rockchucker. Are there kits for what I need also?

[44man]

Holy smokes, what a shopping list! 50% of the casting stuff you listed, you do not need.
Buy the Lee 310 gr, .44 boolit mold, load 21.5 gr of 296 behind it and the Federal 150 primer and go hunting.
Get back after supper.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Hey Pharmpoke long time no gab at! Before we go any further about what you will need you have to first melt the wheel weights down in ANOTHER container than what you will pour boolets from. You don`t need the dirt and scum and about anything contaminating the pot. About any thing that can sit on a burner will work, skim the crap off and pour the lead in ingots or an old muffin pan the wife won`t miss. Here are addresses to log on to to see what they have yourself. WWW.Midwayusa.com WWW.Grafs.com WWW.midsouthshooters.com WWW.natchezss.com All of these places list casting equipment, so you can compare prices. You don`t necessarly need gas checked boolet moulds, Lyman offers the most designs that don`t require checks. You can shoot unchecked slugs that require them but I`m told the accuracy isn`t as good. I agree with your bullet weight ideas for starters, you can add to these when you desire a change for whatever reason. You will need boolet lube for what you cast, LEE liquid alox is a good place to start with as cast bullets. LEE also has push thru sizers and tumble lube design bullet molds. Overall my advice is get catalogs from the above places. Melt the lead down to ingots. Then start small in the equipment getting your feet wet. If you decide to dipper pour your boolets I reccomend a Lyman ladle over any other. So do your homework first then start melting with a little more knowledge under your hat. Good luck my friend and welcome. :castmine: Robert

[bootsnthejeep]

My 686 was the first gun I ever handloaded for, and mine has been fed a steady diet of the lyman 358156 over 14 gr of 2400. Classic Skelton load. Gobbles em up and begs for more. I experimented with blue dot for a few loads, went back to 2400, but will do some more testing with other powders eventually. Its kind of a stout load, and the 4" barrel doesn't use the 2400 to its potential. But its still hard to beat out of a .357. The 358156 being a gas check bullet probably isn't the best choice for a "plinker" round, but for all around, I love it. For just plinking, would be awful hard to beat a six cavity Lee tumble lube full wadcutter. Just my .02

Boots

[pharmpoke]

44man- which stuff is not needed to start with? Also, I just sorted the wheel weights; discarding a dozen or so zinc and some iron squares. What a messy job- the stuff I got is covered with a pinkish gooey/sticky fluid (maybe transmission or brake) that is not water soluble and bottom of bucket had a yellowish goo on the bottom of it. Do I need to wash this stuff, or just smelt and burn it off. Also the stick on squares with the foam sticky backing- can they just go in the pot?

[jack19512]

Holy smokes, what a shopping list! 50% of the casting stuff you listed, you do not need.







:mrgreen: I'm gonna give my penny's worth and I guess that's about all my advice is worth but if I were to start out casting tomorrow with the way things are now and are going to get I would keep it just as simple as I could. Unless of course you have plenty of lead put away somewhere because my lead supply sources has totally dried up. But luckily I have enough lead put up to last me my lifetime.

I have the Lee 310 RF and the Lee 240 SWC two cavity molds and as far as I am concerned that's all I need for the amount of shooting I do. I know a lot of people add things to their wheel weights for what ever reason but ever since I started casting I have used straight wheel weights and have never had to add anything.

I have never had others cast boolits to compare mine to and 44man on this forum is the only person that has examined and shot mine so maybe he can tell you if they are acceptable or not.

As far as the GC goes I could be wrong, and of course it does matter how fast you push the boolit and what ever but I don't think you necessarily need it. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong about this.

I have the two cavity molds and you could always do what I did and alter one of the boolit cavities so you would have the option of a GC boolit and a no GC boolit. I use the 296 powder in all of my 44 mag loads also. Here is a pic of what I have used for quite a while now and have smelted a lot of lead with this setup. Make sure to use a pan that will withstand the heat and weight of the lead.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/jack19512/DCP01460.jpg

Yes I know, it's slow, it's ugly, but it has worked really good for me.

[docone31]

Wow, it is lead, just melt it. With low melting temp, the zinc will float, the iron will float. If you crank it up, it will blend in except for the iron.
You will need a way to make ingots. I prefer cupcake tins. Old ones. New ones need to be left outside, clean, to rust. The lead won't stick to rust.
I do not use gloves, I ingot seperately from my casting. I use a bottom pour pot and make sure I turn the valve on starting, and turning off. I use Lee molds, Lee sizing dies, I drop into a large bucket of water on each cast. I make my lube.
The liquids in the bucket on the lead will burn off making flux. I use a cheap soup ladle to pour the ingots, tweezers to pluck the clips. I stir with a wood dowel, 3/16".
Lee molds are about 20$, and I get superior results with them. The sizing dies are about the same. Go .002 over groove for sizing to start.
It is much simpler than it seems. Save the Lino for later, same with the lead.. Just melt the wheel weights, and cast away. Keep the mold hot untill you get the feel for it, then you will know the "sweet spot".
Don't put wet wheel weights into the pot! It will generate steam and go POP! Not fun. Don't drop the added material into the melt. It will go SPLASH! Not fun.
Get an old broomstick and cut it 10" long. It makes a good sprue plate pusher.
Lee makes a fantastic .357 mold, and great .44mag molds. Inexpensive and I get great results with mine. Just follow their directions, they work.
I got the ladles, and they just sit there. The molds come with handles. The sizing dies are very simple, and work.
Keep it simple, have a ball, and plink away.

[jack19512]

Do I need to wash this stuff, or just smelt and burn it off. Also the stick on squares with the foam sticky backing- can they just go in the pot?






I don't wash anything, just throw it into the pot. This done outdoors of course. Again, I could be wrong but the stick on weights should be pure lead and unless I wanted to change the hardness of my boolits I keep them separated from the wheel weights. If you don't have but a few it probably won't matter that much.

[454PB]

There's nothing wrong with safety equipment. If you feel better wearing a respirator, goggles, welding gloves, and logger's boots that's fine. I guess I spent too many years under OSHA's thumb and express my discust by being a "casting rebel".

My casting uniform consists of light work gloves. cotton jeans and a long sleeve shirt. I've been casting that way for 38 years and no injuries, except for the times I failed to wear the gloves because it was too hot and got a few minor burns from lead splash.

I do cringe when I see people casting while sitting at the bench. I prefer to be able to exit quickly if Murphy visits.

[pharmpoke]

Now I'm getting psyched up to really do this. Just curious- about how many (just give he a guestimate) pounds of clean ingots and how many 240gr bullets could one expect to get from a 5 gallon bucketful of dirty old wheel weights? Also, it's starting to get serious about winter temperatures here in Wyoming this week (20-30 degrees); would I be better to wait for a warm spell to try this, or just bundle up and give it a go? I know the smelting needs to be done outside, what about the casting?

[jack19512]

Just curious- about how many (just give he a guestimate) pounds of clean ingots and how many 240gr bullets could one expect to get from a 5 gallon bucketful of dirty old wheel weights? Also, it's starting to get serious about winter temperatures here in Wyoming this week (20-30 degrees); would I be better to wait for a warm spell to try this, or just bundle up and give it a go? I know the smelting needs to be done outside, what about the casting?




This is kinda rough estimate but I generally get one bucket of ingots from two buckets of wheel weights. Not sure about any one else but I smelt outside but do my boolit casting inside. I'm not smart enough to help you with the"how many 240gr bullets" thing but it should be quite a few. :-D

[jack19512]

I should add also that it does matter how much garbage there is mixed in with your weights too. I was given a 5 gallon bucket of weights a while back and after cleaning out all of the garbage I had 1/2 bucket of weights. :( But they were free so :-D.

[John D]

7000 gr= 1#. So 7000 divided 240 gr (boolit) = 29 boolits/#. So, if a 5 gal. bucket has 100 lbs. of ingots , that comes out to 2900 boolits, if my math is correct.

[jack19512]

7000 gr= 1#. So 7000 divided 240 gr (boolit) = 29 boolits/#. So, if a 5 gal. bucket has 100 lbs. of ingots , that comes out to 2900 boolits, if my math is correct.





You beat me to it. I weighed a pound of my 240 gr. SWC's and it took 29 of them.:mrgreen:

[shooting on a shoestring]

I use a gasoline coleman stove, move it outside for smelting WWs, inside my well ventilated garage (door up, fan on) for casting boolits.

Start out with a plain base SWC mould, find the recipe on this forum for Felix lube. You can get the Lee push through sizers that go on your reloading press (.001" to .002" over your throat diameters), and then simply use your fingers to smear the lube into the grooves. Or plop down about $100 for a Lubrisizer to do the sizing and lubing.

I use a cast iron plumbers pot for melting, and pour with a Lyman ladle, break sprues with a Home Depot rubber/plastic headed mallet.

Just do it. The more you do it the more you'll learn to do it better. Then you'll see what tools you want to improve your set-up.

[44man]

OH CRAP, I wrote for a half hour and lost it all. I will do it again later.

[KYCaster]

OH CRAP, I wrote for a half hour and lost it all. I will do it again later.

Man, I hate when that happens.

Pharmpoke...Smelting isn't a big deal in the winter if you don't mind working out in the cold.

Make a sheet metal sleeve to put around your smelter to block the wind and reflect the heat back to the pot. Leave a gap at the bottom to provide combustion air for the burner.

Remember that when you bring the cold ingots inside, moisture will condense on them and they need to be completely dry before you put them in your casting pot.

And welcome to the forum. Enjoy your new hobby.

Jerry

[wmitty]

If you go with the Lee pushthru die for sizing you get a bottle of liquid alox lube for tumble lubing the boolets, which is an easy way to go when you first start casting. Instructions are on the bottle; and even if you decide to get a lubrisizer later you will still use the push thru die to size boolets and seat gas checks so you don't break the handle on the lubrisizer. (just my opinion).




















lee

[Wayne Smith]

44Man, if you are going to write that much do it in Word and then paste it here. Works for me, anyway. That way I have it saved if it disappears.

[cabezaverde]

If you want to hunt with the gun, give the Ranch Dog .432 265 RF mold a look before you buy any molds. Also, size them to fit your cylinder throats rather than the bore.

[pharmpoke]

I know some of you are just shaking your head at my ignorance/naivity, but I've got more questions. I can just push by hand a .430 slug through the cylinder throats(with one cylinder a little tighter) and previously posted the slugged bore dimensions (.415/.430), so do I buy a .431 mold and sizing die? If you can buy a mold the size you want the bullets, why do you need to size them through a sizing die? How would a cast 430 be sized at all through a .431 die? Also- If I understand correctly I can use sizing dies in my rcbs reloading press and don't need a separate sizing press, but I can't lube with the reloading press? Is the tumble lubing any better/worse than lubing the grooves through a press? I also read about the pan lubing. Which is faster, easier, less messy, better results (which I assume is less/no barrel leading)? I think Mrs Claus could spare $100 for the lubri/sizer if it's worth it. Thanks for the replies!

[44man]

I will have to get back to you. Bioman shot a nice doe this afternoon with his .44 Ruger. I have to help him.

[Maven]

pharmpoke, You can thread Lee Precision's bullet sizer dies into your press, but not the Lyman or RCBS dies (interchangeable). As for the .431" diameter that you'll need, you can easily lap one out to .431". Look for a sticky on one of our forums on the subject or go to the Castpics site (see bottom of the screen for a link) and read about how to do it there. Btw, I purchase a Ruger SBH about a year and a half ago and found that it needed a .431 CB as well. As for sizing in a Lee die & tumble lubing v. a Lyman/RCBS-, Star- machine, tumble lubing is faster, less expensive and quite effective, but also messy. Moreover, Lar45 sells a version of liquid alox for a fraction of what Lee Precision charges (link at the bottom of the screen).

[cabezaverde]

I know some of you are just shaking your head at my ignorance/naivity, but I've got more questions. I can just push by hand a .430 slug through the cylinder throats(with one cylinder a little tighter) and previously posted the slugged bore dimensions (.415/.430), so do I buy a .431 mold and sizing die? If you can buy a mold the size you want the bullets, why do you need to size them through a sizing die? How would a cast 430 be sized at all through a .431 die? Also- If I understand correctly I can use sizing dies in my rcbs reloading press and don't need a separate sizing press, but I can't lube with the reloading press? Is the tumble lubing any better/worse than lubing the grooves through a press? I also read about the pan lubing. Which is faster, easier, less messy, better results (which I assume is less/no barrel leading)? I think Mrs Claus could spare $100 for the lubri/sizer if it's worth it. Thanks for the replies!


You will want to size 431 or 432.

Molds sizes quoted by the manufacturers are a best guest. The real size depends on the particular mold, the alloy, your casting techniques, and which way the wind is blowing.

That is why I suggested the .432 Ranch Dog mold. Ranch Dog also sells a very reasonably priced custom .432 Lee push thorugh sizer. BTW, I don't work for Ranch Dog, I am just very happy with the way my SBH shoots with this bullet.

Sizing down a little is not a problem, but making an undersized bullet shoot well is very difficult.

[jack19512]

It's possible that you might be able to shoot them as cast without having to size them. I use the Lee molds and shoot mine without sizing and they do fine. I would at least check into it before buying a bunch of stuff you may not even need.

[44man]

Well, let's see if I remember anything. I shot Jacks boolits and they are well made and accurate.
For hunting the Lee 310 and the RD 265 are both good. The Lyman 429421 and the RCBS 250 gr semi wad cutters are good too.
Don't worry about cleaning WW's unless they have water on them. If wet, put them in a cold smelter to start. The oil will burn off and the crud will float to the top.
Smelt outside and cast in the garage. You don't need welders gloves or goggles. Glasses of some kind are enough and plain leather gloves if you need them. I have cast for around 57 years without a problem.
The Lee sizer is all you need. You can lap it to .431 but try .430 first. it might shoot good.
Use a soft lube like Felix or buy some from Lar45 so you can pan lube or smear it in the grooves by hand and run through the sizer to remove excess. I don't like hard lubes. I HATE Lee liquid Alox.
You do not need gas checks unless the boolit you choose was designed for them. PB works just fine in revolvers. Some of my best groups are with PB.
If you have stick on weights, sort them out to keep batches of alloy as consistent as you can. The stick on's are soft and you can use them to alloy a 50-50 mix if you want. A 50-50 mix should be water dropped to harden them so seating does not size them. Let them sit at least a week before loading.
You don't need any expansion with the .44 and the boolits I listed.
I know I am forgetting a lot, but a lot of the guys have right answers except about Lee Alox. Worst groups and more leading then I want. It might work for pipsqueek loads but not for me.

[jack19512]

44man

I can't remember if I asked or if you might have mentioned but did you size my boolits before shooting or shoot them as cast?

[wmitty]

I realize 44man is not enthusiastic (to state things mildly) about liquid alox as an alternative lube and I also know he is a way more better shot than I with revolvers.

I still think there is a place for LLA as a lube for revolver boolets primarily because a guy doesn't have to come up with the funds for a lubrisizer right off the bat when he decides to try casting. Its not the best way, but fellers, some of us aren't as financially gifted as others of us. I'm happy for those who can jump in and buy a Star sizer right up front and not blink an eye. I'm just not able to go that route and I think there are some more of us who are in the same boat.

No offense meant to anyone!

[pharmpoke]

At what velocity do gas checks become necessary then? Or with proper bullet size for specific gun and proper lube, gas checks aren't needed at all?

[MT Gianni]

I believe that gas checks are a necessity at most rifle velocities. They help revolver accuracy in many cases. To answer your last question you also have to figure in fps and bullet hardness. They help to keep a square base which may be the most important point of accuracy.

[Hang Fire]

Now I'm getting psyched up to really do this. Just curious- about how many (just give he a guestimate) pounds of clean ingots and how many 240gr bullets could one expect to get from a 5 gallon bucketful of dirty old wheel weights? Also, it's starting to get serious about winter temperatures here in Wyoming this week (20-30 degrees); would I be better to wait for a warm spell to try this, or just bundle up and give it a go? I know the smelting needs to be done outside, what about the casting?

Weigh the bucket of wheel weights, deduct actual or guessed weight of bucket, deduct around 10 percent of final WW weight total for wastage (clips and crap) to obtain a rough guestmate total of usable WW.

There is 7000 grains in one pound, so you should get roughly 29 of the 240 grain bullets per pound.

Probably a good idea to do your ingot casting outside with a sufficient heat source as can get very smelly sometimes. I do all my bullet casting in the garage with no worry about lead fumes as at normal casting temps lead does not gas off. I am more aware of and leery of the dust from dross etc and wash my hands after casting or melting of WW into ingots.

Just always remember safety first. with IMO, eye wear tops in that department. Not overly simplifying, but bullet casting sounds a lot more complicated and involved than it actually is, once you get into it, will almost become second nature without much thought (aside from safety) to the process.

What part of Wyoming do you reside? Those WY winters can be rough.

Worked in the oil patch and we lived in rural part of AK for seven years and never felt threatened by the weather, when got transferred to WY, more than a few times was very spooked by it. In the 1970s-80s we lived in Cody and Rawlins, then got transferred to CA in 1986 before back to Cody in 1991. When at that time, wife said enough was enough of always moving around, so I took early retirement package. We then retired to AZ and been here on the Colorado River for 17 years.

[Hang Fire]

At what velocity do gas checks become necessary then? Or with proper bullet size for specific gun and proper lube, gas checks aren't needed at all?

I shot full power loads with 240 grn. plain base WW cast for years in a Ruger Super Blackhawk with absolutely no leading and excellent accuracy.