Zinc Wheelweights

[38 Super Auto]

I did some sorting and smelting yesterday. I have found a new supplier for free wheel weights. It's fairly small, but regular. I was surprised about the number of zinc and steel wheelweights that I found. Anyway, I learned a few things and I wanted to share with some photos.

These photos are all zinc or steel wheelweights - all but three of these WWs are ferrous. Some of this has been reported before - my observations are:

1) Zinc or steel wheelweights are perceptibly lighter
2) When you scratch a steel WW, it only removes the paint. With a Zn WW, there is minimal penetration. With Pb alloy WWs, a screwdriver will penetrate deeper.
3) Zinc or steel WWs produce a higher pitched ring when dropped on concrete. Lead WW make more of a thud
4) A couple of them are marked with a Zn - some have a Fe (steel) with a number
5) Some of the Zn and steel WWs use a different method to attach weight metal to clip. I think due to zinc or steel's higher strength, they don't always bury the end of the clip into the WW metal. This is evident on the RH column of weights in the middle picture.
6) When you squeeze them with pliers, lead alloy WWs deform easily and Zn or steel WWs do not. refer to the RH photo

I think item #6 is the most important for me. I usually do other stuff during smelting and I check on the pot every 5 min or so. I use a slow flame on my cooker and I'd rather not hang aroung and suck up the noxious fumes emanating from the cauldron.

So what I did is spend about 20 min for 50# of WWs, checking each weight to make sure it deforms when squeezed with combination pliers. I slipped the jaw to the larger setting and squeezed each WW on the wire cutting (inside) jaws of the pliers. (see RH photo) As I mentioned the lead WWs deform easily and the Zn or steel WWs do not deform at all.

I know this isn't earthshaking, but I wanted to share for those casters who haven't encountered Zn or steel WWs in the mix. This test requires a little time, but it keeps me from worrying about ruining a batch of ingots with zinc.

Obviously, is is important to remove the zinc WWs before the smelt reaches the melting point of zinc ( approx 780F).


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/newattachment.php?f=8&poststarttime=1203898850&posthash=32adee6e8c62462adf1a8460b5557972

[Down South]

I counted 19 Zinc WW out of one bucket full of WW last week. There may have been a few more. I found the 19 skimming off clips.

[opentop]

I for one appreciate the information as I’m just getting into scrounging for wheel weights. So far my casting has been for BP only and I used lead pipe.

So thank you for posting so some of us newbies can learn a thing or two………or three

[Blammer]

so can we sticky this? as it's commonly asked and this is a good thread!

[454PB]

I've yet to run into a certified zinc wheelweight, but I have found quite a few steel ones. They are marked "Fe", and are easily verified with a magnet. Place the magnet on the end of the weight, because the clips are all steel.

[Whitespider]

I run into quite a few zinc, steel and plastic in the WWs I get from the GM dealership, but rare in the buckets I get from the independent tire stores.

[DLCTEX]

fe is the atomic symbol for iron, and that's what they are made of. DALE

[The Double D]

Don't forget to save your zinc wheelweights and send them to me... When I get home in April I will start casting them in my golf ball diameter mould for your mortars and cannons. 50/50 you pay postage.

[oldfartz]

Any way of getting zinc out of smelted lead ingots? Came up with new source only to find lots of zinc weights in it. Lucky, I saw something was wrong and stopped there. The top of the molten metal was FLUFFY, so I fluxed and skimmed only to remove half of what I had to begin with. It also had a deep purple color to it. Time to put Glasses on and inspect more closely before adding.

[Down South]

I just dump all of mine in the smelting pot. I do pick out the stick on WW and if I see a suspicious WW, I’ll pull it out of the mix. I smelt at a low temp. Just as soon as the melt liquidifies I start skimming the clips off. This is where I find my zinc WW's still unmelted. The Zinc WW melts at a higher temp and I keep my temp just hot enough to keep the regular WW liquid. I’ve even run test by throwing known zinc WW’s in the mix and watching them. They never melted.

Oldfartz, I’m new to casting and so far have never contaminated my melt with Zinc. I’ve read on this forum that the best way to remove zinc from the lead is to keep the melt at a temp just above what it takes to liquidfy the mix. Leave it undisturbed and the zinc crystals will float to the top and can be skimmed off.

[blysmelter]

The zinc ones (and steel) float, just skim them off. Has worked since they first turned up over here some 10years ago.

[Andy_P]

Melting zinc wheelweights is the Grand "Boogie Man" of casters, but even with the most casual of care is completely avoidable.

They melt well above the temperature of lead-based wheelweights and can easily be skimmed off. All you have to do, is skim as soon as the "slush" has gone to liquid - the zinc WW will be intact, and floating among the steel clips and other trash. Skim, and add more, or skim and ladle out into ingots and add more. Don't crank the heat up and go inside for a nap, because then you might melt some zinc.

I say might, because I once tried to melt some zinc wheelweights and was only able to do that after putting a handful of zinc and a handful of lead into an empty pot and cranking it to high for 20 minutes. 10 minutes after the lead had melted the zinc finally went slushy and five minutes after that had melted - barely.

[Pepe Ray]

Down South
That is wishful thinking!!
Once the Zinc is melted, you are screwed!! It becomes part of the alloy.
Would be akin to trying to separate the whisky from the ginger ale after it was poured.
Pepe Ray

[454PB]

fe is the atomic symbol for iron, and that's what they are made of. DALE

Yes, Fe is the symbol for iron, but put one of them on a grinding wheel and you'll see by the sparks that it is steel.

[38 Super Auto]

I've yet to run into a certified zinc wheelweight, but I have found quite a few steel ones. They are marked "Fe", and are easily verified with a magnet

454, you make a good point. I went and checked: of all the WWs in the photo, only three were zinc (two of these three had a 'Zn' in raised lettering on the WW.

I will go back and make some clarifications in my original post.

Thanks for the tip. :drinks:

[TexasJeff]

[QUOTE]I for one appreciate the information as I

[TexasJeff]

I for one appreciate the information as I’m just getting into scrounging for wheel weights. So far my casting has been for BP only and I used lead pipe.

So thank you for posting so some of us newbies can learn a thing or two………or three


so can we sticky this? as it's commonly asked and this is a good thread!

I'll second the thanks regarding the pictures and information.

I picked up an additional source of WW, and so far, I kid you not, almost HALF of the two buckets are zinc weights. I'm starting to get a nervous twitch every time I toss something in the smelting pot--wondering if it is zinc in drag, or some tranveszinctite wheel weight just waiting to ruin my batch.

And I'll WHOLEHEARTEDLY second the motion about making this particular thread a sticky. I'm in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, and thanks to all the flakes that have moved here, our tire shops and dealerships are becoming more flake-conscious.

We're gonna see more zinc wheel weights. Just a matter of time.

Jeff

[Potsy]

Brand new here. Just wanted to say hello to everyone.
I've been casting for about 4 years. Currently I'm casting for a .45 Colt, .45 ACP, and .357/.38
Hate to ask fool questions, and I'm sure it's on another thread somewhere, but what does zinc, melted in with your alloy, do that is so terrible?
I smelt down about 20lb at a time, I pick out the valve stems, used wads of Red Man, etc. beforehand. Then melt it at high heat on a coleman stove, then clean off the clips, plastic weights, etc. But I'm sure (looking at the pics above) that I've melted zinc in with my alloy.
Does zinc just cause consistency problems, or will it harm anything?

[copdills]

Thanks for the information , Great Help

[waksupi]

Welcome aboard Potsy, and all the other new guys. Enjoy yourselves, You will probably find more info than you know what to do with here!

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Again, The Question: what harm does zinc do? Selous writes in his book about 1880, that they always added zinc to their lead/tin alloy for hardness and to keep it from leading in BP ML rifles. We are talking 10 bore and up.

Rich

[prs]

I have only seen a couple of zinc weights so far. I agree with others that note success with maintaining a more modest smelting temp range. I want to keep my tin, so maybe it is a bit of a balancing act. My set-up is capable of melting zinc, but I let the melt get started slowly until I get a good pool of molten lead in the bottom, then I turn-up the heat and add bulk scrap. Once molten I reduce the heat to where it just stays liquid and I stir the flotsom looking for suspicious "stuff" such as unmelted weights. Once I am confident that no zinc has been missed, I turn it up and let the mix heat to where beeswax will just begin to flame off instead of smoke (it should smoke a bit before bursting into flame and not just flash into flame). Then I flux and skim, holding the pot at about that temp and reflux/skim again after 20 minutes. So far, so good - heaven forbid I should have to purchase a thermometer and keep notes ;-)

prs

[TAWILDCATT]

zinc does not pour as well and needs high heat.if you get good castings you can use it.it wont hurt the gun.the bullets will be light.they used to put zinc washers in special molds as gas checks or scrapers. :coffee:

[TexRebel]

if you think you have zinc in your alloy, some can be removed by melting at a temp around 650 deg, the zinc will float to the top and can be cleaned off, it will look crinkely, as for casting alloys with zinc in them, a temp of 800 or higher will do it, just do not over heat your mold, Aluminum molds are bad about warping, the boolits will be a little light but very hard, I do not recomend more than 5 % zinc if possable

[Mark Daiute]

Well, I finaly realized something. I had about 40 lbs. of lead go weird on me once. I was melting my lead over a fire in the fireplace when it got all gummy.

My furnaces are too old and tired to get hot enough to melt zinc. Probably a good thing. Evidently the pot in the fireplace was hot enough (for a while) to melt zinc. That pot is unbelievably heay, probably 50lbs. or more. Now I know that I have to get the fire hot enough to melt that zinc out.

[ForneyRider]

Has anyone seen this report: Annual_Report_of_the_State_Mineralogist.pdf?

They discuss a number of ways to separate zinc from lead.

Not sure any of the procedures are possible at home. One process involved using silver melted in the alloy, the zinc bonds to the silver, and then is removed. Another possibility was using steam, so that one is out. The silver and zinc can be separated through cupellation. yea, it sounded familar, but I still had to look it up. Cupellation is putting the zinc and silver in a clay or bone ash pot and heated. The zinc bonds to the pot and the precious metal, silver, is pure.

The report does say that zinc bonds to the lead preventing separation from smelting.

[boogerloo]

I have been buying lead at the local scrap dealer. Sometimes I find ingots. How can I tell if the ingots have zinc in them?
Kevin

[shotman]

it depends on what you want to do with the lead. zinc is ok for boolit making not for shotmakers. I you want to get most out it is a temp thing and takes some time to do. This is where you dont want any type of flux. I dont have the temps here now but this will give you an idea lead melts at around 600 tin around 650 zinc 750 -800 antimony 900 so you take a thermometer and heat the melt to 1000. Then start letting it cool down . At about 850 the antimony will float and look gummy skim that off into one batch. let temp drop to around 650 and the zinc will float skim that off . Let temp drop to 600 and the tin will float and dropping more will only be the lead that should keep a blue scum on it I guess that is why the symbol PB pure blue. The temps that i have posted is not perfect but you get the idea. I will get the temps and post . This does NOT make each pure but will get most to seperate. To get pure takes much more controled heat

[69daytona]

Save your zinc WW for putting in your radiator to help stop electrolisis, if you have an engine with cast iron block and aluminum heads they will get eaten up in time, the zinc is a sacraficial
anode, beats throwing them away.

[rv8chuck]

Boolit Master, Thanks for your excellent posting on identifing Zinc & steel wheelweights. Your process works great. I have found a number of Zinc and steel wheelweights in my buckets of wheelweights. I have also passed on your process to friends, some who have been casting for a number of years, everyone agrees that it is a great way to keep Zinc out of the casting pot. Thanks again

[PDshooter]

The zinc ones (and steel) float, just skim them off. Has worked since they first turned up over here some 10years ago.



+1........Same here!:castmine:

[Castnshoot]

Would putting stick on weights help if you have ingots alloyed with zinc? And, how much easier does a lead ww deform than a zinc ww?

[Refraktorius]

And, how much easier does a lead ww deform than a zinc ww?

When nipping it with a pair of side-cutting pliers, the lead-weight is easily marked at the edge. With zinc you really have to put an effort into making a mark.

Try it, once you've done it in real life, you'll never be in doubt.
(Find one marked "Zn" and use it as a reference)

[LqChrome]

yea we ran about 160# of ww on saturday,didnt find any zinc ones. Me and the guys wish we had some so we would KNOW what they look like. Ended up with about 115# of wwand stickons and scrap yeilded about another 100#

[zxcvbob]

I bought 100 pound bucket of WW's from the junk man two weeks ago. They have quite a few stick-on weights mixed it, which I thought were always pure lead. I picked a bunch of stick-ons out to melt down; put them in the stainless steel pot that I use for melting, then put them on the little burner. I went back to check on them 20 minutes later and there was a nice puddle of lead at the bottom, but they weren't melting very well. I gave 'em a stir and left them alone for another 20 minutes and they still weren't melting. I pulled a strip of weights out and tested them with a magnet and they stuck. Stick-on iron weights! The weights weren't melting down because half of them were iron. So I skimmed out all the weights that wouldn't melt, and I noticed that the puddle of lead looked like it had another small puddle of light metal floating on top. Zinc? Uh-oh. I turned off the heat and let it solidify in the pot.

After the Superbowl, I melted the lead again slowly. When it was just melted good, I was able to lift out that lighter piece that seemed to be floating on top. I thought maybe I was OK and it hadn't gotten hot enough to mix together. I let the rest get a little hotter to make sure it was melted thru and then gave it a stir -- cottage cheese. The stuff is definitely contaminated with zinc. The lead is useless for making bullets; maybe I can use if for ballast in a little Trebuchet I've been planning to build. I've got to clean all my equipment now to get every trace of zinc out of it. At least it was only about 6 or 8 pounds and not the whole 100 like it could have been if I melted it all together. And none of it got in my caster.

So not only are a lot of stick-on weights made of iron now, some of them were obviously zinc. I'm always on the watch for zinc clip-on weights, but this was something new.

[mtgrs737]

I do the same as Andy P does, just keep the temp down and the zinc will float to the top for skimming off with the clips. I know where to set my gas valve but I also have a thermometer, and I keep the melt under 700 degrees.

[FN in MT]

Had a buddy over today who has a 100+# plumbers pot. I had about 800#'s of WW's I wanted to alloy out into ingots.

Despite being careful the first pot was totally contaminated by zinc. Tough to watch the temperature once that pot starts to heat up!

So the rest of it I let the heat come up slow,imediately fluxed and skimmed as soon as it went from oatmeal to liquid. STILL found a few more zinc weights!

We found about 15#'s of ZINC in the first 500#'s. Screwed around so much looking for the zinc that I never got it all smelted out. What a Pain in the Ass! Didn't even get into the stick on wt's. Have about 150#'s of those.

Between running all over creation to find WW's, all the waste from the clips, NOW the zinc, then add in the TIME involved ......WW's are fast becoming.......hardly worth it.

FN in MT

[mtgrs737]

I smelted down 4 buckets today and got about 400 shiney ingots, it takes longer the way I do it but I don't get any zinc contamination. The zinc and steel weights just float to the top with the clips. Keep your temps down to 700 degrees or less and zinc is not a problem.

[10-x]

11378
Some of the "bad guys" to look out for. I turn on the radio and sort "ww's". 2 buckets and a box, Pb ww's in one, stick on Pb in another, steel and zinc in a box.:coffee:

[Eagle]

Hy everyone. I just scored my first bucket of WW. The good news is I got it for free. I was so excited. My girl thought I found gold or something. Any way before I start to melt these down I seperated all the steel ones out. Now that I have done that my question is what are the sticky WW made of and can I melt them down with the rest. Also I am planning on useing candle wax to flux with. How much do I use and do I have to cut it down in small pieces or just throw it in in big chunks.

[zxcvbob]

Eagle,
The stick-on weights used to be pure lead. Now, they can be just about anything, including iron or zinc -- enough zinc to ruin all your lead. You need to sort them; pull the iron and steel weights out with a magnet, throw out any that are stamped "ZN", and melt the rest slowly and carefully to keep it below 770 degrees.

[Jaybird62]

ZN wheel weights are starting to show up in the Middle Tennessee area. I've got a half galon of ZN weights after going through about four 5 gal. buckets of WW. I'm saving them to make fishing sinkers.

[armyrat1970]

Had a problem with zinc contamination in my pot before I got more info about casting with wws. It clogged it so bad it would not even pour. Got some good info from another site on how to clean. Empty your pot as much as you can. Get some hardwood charcoal, not briquets, and crush it down to bean or pea size. Fill your pot and crank up the heat to max. Let it burn down to ash. Dump it and all of the contamination should come out with the ash. Also, once it is really burnt down use something to clean your spout before you dump it, if you have a bottom pour spout as I do. I also took my valve rod and stuck it into the pot and twisted it back and forth from end to end to clean it. After dumping the ash I put a couple of more inches of the charcoal into the pot and once it really heated up I took the valve rod and kept twisting it around in the bottom cavity that feeds the spout and again cleaned the spout. I used a dental pick. My pot was clean and it was amazing how much junk was removed. I was smelting right in my pot and will never do that again.

[Tom Schafer]

I just smelted over 600 pounds of Wheel Weights.
I got one group of lead that was not lead but steel and some zinc.
I agree with you completely.
The underlying problem showing it's head, is the Government wanting to get rid of the lead.

Thought the government is supposed to work for its constituents, not the other way.
Tom

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

the new WW alloys are just another case of bureaucratic idleness. They have to figure out some campaign to justify a pay raise and a bigger office. They came to the conclusion that there are hordes of wild animals and birds just lining the roads out here in the west, just hoping a truck/car will flip a WW off so they can eat it. Sooooooooo, July of 2011 no more lead.
Anybody asks, that's why I am amassing a couple tons of ingots. Mike Venturino buys his alloy from a smelter in one ton lots each year, for his shooting. Since I cannot take that cost off of my taxes, I buy all the WW I can.

Rich
Buff Killer

[lead slead]

I got a bunch of lead from a mechanic I know and got a ton of ZN weights. This was a BMW dealer so maybe they are using more of that stuff than us made? I will have to start stocking up more I hate to buy the stuff when I can get it free but geez...if no more of these in 2011 the price will probably shoot up a lot.

[crashawk]

the comment about using silver to remove zinc, that's kinda funny. there is a lot of silver in lead as it come out of the ground and one of the methods they use to seperate the silver from the lead is to use zinc. same process, just reverse. :roll:

I've found a few zinc ww while processing, my old burner really doesn't get hot enough to melt the zinc unless I walk away and forget about it so they end up spooning off the top with the clips so that works for me. I may have gotten a zinc weight or two at some point melted though as I did have one batch of ingots act funny in my production pot. I had fluffy looking stuff floating and sticking to the sides of the pot, at first I thought my tin was coming out so I fluxed it. got lots of black crap out and some of the fluffy stuff was still there so I scraped it out. bullets poured good and they were not too hard so I guess it didn't hurt anything. at the end of that pour I turned my pot upside down and knocked it on the floor and got all the extra stuff that was sticking to the sides out and througholly cleaned it out. haven't had any more show up since so it must have been just a one time thing. but am I correct in assuming that under 5 percent won't really hurt anything if the bullet is not too hard for my application?

thanks.
Jason:castmine:

[PatMarlin]

Those zinks work well in for an anode in your radiator. I ground the finish off and set it on the top of the core just inside the raditor cap mouth. Works great.

[mold maker]

Does this work in all combinations of material in the radiator and engine? I'd sure hate to have to cuss the zinc for yet another reason.

[PatMarlin]

Yes it saves the other materials in your engine as a scrificial annode, like your aluminum for instance. It's the best job for the life of a less noble metal, and redeems itself as the scurge of cast boolit lead.

Best thing for your boat as well.

[Brick85]

The second time I ever cast anything, I had a propane camping stove and a junk-store iron pot. I dumped a bunch of WW into the pot and let it go. I wondered why a couple of them wouldn't go; it may have occurred to me that they weren't Pb, or maybe I just figured it was the paint, but either way I don't think I managed to get the few I had to melt. Though I do remember a bit of a purple-ish tint.

I then proceeded to use the round balls I'd cast in a BP revolver, with a bit of effort. . .



it depends on what you want to do with the lead. zinc is ok for boolit making not for shotmakers.

Do you cast your shot or use a tower? I think at some point I'd like to make my own shot (with the way the price of it's gone, it's not worthwhile to buy it). Is it ok for larger shot, say 00 buck, but not for, say, #8 bird?


the lead that should keep a blue scum on it I guess that is why the symbol PB pure blue.

No, the Pb is from the Latin word for lead, Plumbum (from which we get Plumber, they associated lead with pipes). Besides, if it were initials, PB would by definition have to mean Peanut Butter, not Plywood Bobsled, or Phoney Biceps, or Pure Blue. :)

So I guess one of my first lessons from all you casting pros is that I need to use a big pot to smelt out ingots (which I can get to a consistent hardness and composition if I really try), and then use the ingots to cast the actual bullets. I'm glad I don't have to figure all this stuff out myself! I always thought ingots were superfluous.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
In the early 1900's, pre 1969 when I started, some shooters would cast Zn bullets, they were much lighter, and could be pushed faster , acted like solids on game as did not expand.
Some of the more sienor members of the board would know more.:Fire:

[castingagain]

I'm new here and just learning the site, what a curve for me navigating,lol.
I'm casting again due to not wanting to pay the "Temporary" ,I hope, inflation in boolits
For fast sorting an anvil and a ball peen, smack,see a dent pull it toward you,no dent push it away. You can fly through all the ones your not sure of.

still questionable, I found long ago that having a vise handy when you have a questionable WW helps.
A quick twist of the vise handle and a sharp blow with a hammer and a PB will bend right over, A zinc will bend, but not much,try a little harder and it will snap, and if it don't bend at all, don't hit it harder or you will Bust your vise because it's a steel unit.
I shake my head sadly thinking of stick-ons made of anything but pure PB.
Love this site!

[castingagain]

Oooop's as to the last post, the cheap pot metal (not steel) ww's snapped too, were somewhat magnetic and showed a crystaline formation at the break.
(casting again)

[gwalchmai]

Hello. Anyone know by looking if these are zinc? They look like they're painted...

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u91/gwalchmai_munn/IMG_0331.jpg

[hammerhead357]

gwal, I don't think those are zink, as far as I know the zinkers are all have stamped lettering and numbers and have a zn on them but I am sure I haven't seen them all..
Wes

[SciFiJim]

Also it looks like those were cast onto the clip. I think that all of the zinc ones are riveted onto the clip. Test these with a pair of wire cutters and see if they are easily cut. If so, they are lead.

[Russel Nash]

These:

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u91/gwalchmai_munn/IMG_0331.jpg

I am thinking are aluminum.

I have also tried to cut wheelweights with a razor bladed utility knife. If the razor drops into the metal and can peel off a shaving, its lead.

If it takes a lot of effort to cut into, it's NOT lead, but some other metal, steel, aluminum or maybe zinc??

[zxcvbob]

I'm almost sure the "1.75 MC" weight is lead. Not sure about the others but they look like lead too. If you have weights that are marked "AL-MC" and look kind of plasticky, they are lead with a thick coat of (epoxy?) paint.

[inuhbad]

THanks for this tutorial guide...

I just went through another batch of wheel weights with wire cutter pliers. I've seen mostly the following 'Code' letters:

MC (Pretty sure it's lead)
MICRO (Almost always lead)
T (Pretty sure it's lead)
P (VERY soft, may be pure lead)
AL (Not sure but this seems like lead, a bit harder) with thick epoxy/paint type coat that flakes off under pressure.
AL-MC (Not sure but this seems like lead) with thick 'paint' coat that flakes off under pressure.
Zn DEFINITELY zinc.
Fe DEFINITELY steel.

I was curious about the AL ones in this batch... Does that mean they might have some Aluminum in them? Or are they lead? The seem to be a fairly soft metal, but then again, Aluminum IS a fairly soft metal.

Anybody have any idea what these 'Type' Code letters are or mean?

I know there's always the 'Float Test', but I'd like to weed out as many potential problems ahead of time as I possibly can before my next wheel weight smelting in a few days.

[zxcvbob]

I have run across a few aluminum weights, but I think the AL just means they are OK for aluminum wheels.

[inuhbad]

That makes more sense to me... The ones marked AL or AL-MC had a VERY different, thicker type of coating which would flake off when I bent the WW's with my hands. I figured if I could bend them with my hands and the wire cutter 'bit' into them fairly well (felt just a tad bit harder than the "T" marked lead weights), I assumed they're likely lead. Some of the longer ones I could bend until they 'snapped' in two.

I guess since I separated out all the obviously Steel & Zinc WW's, I'll just 'cook up' the batch now and skim off the floaters!

I like the extra confidence & reassurance I get from going through the whole bucket of WW's one by one, separating out the many different wheel weights!

ALSO - I FOUND SEVERAL ZINC STICK-ON WHEEL WEIGHTS!!!
I didn't know they made zinc stick-ons!

Initially I thought stick-ons were all nearly pure lead - at least that's what I was led to believe from reading the casting books and stuff online!!! Imagine my surprise when I saw several of them were marked 'Zn' and were DEFINITELY harder than the real lead stick-on WW's!!!

All in all, out of the whole batch of wheel weights, I'd estimate that only ~5% of them were Zinc/Steel weights - the whole rest of this most recent bucket were all various types of lead alloys.

[zxcvbob]

All the zinc weights I've found have been stick-ons. Also a bunch of them are steel. If try to melt down a batch of stick-on weights without at least pulling the steel weights out, you will end up getting the lead too hot before you get the trash skimmed out and the zincs will ruin it.

[woodsman1st]

Man am I ever glad I asked the question; valuable information is really pouring in here from all of you experienced boolit casters.

I am now in the process of sorting my WWs and my magnet has picked out a few steel WWs;
WILL MY MAGNET BE ATTRACTED TO THE ZINC WWS.
I have a couple of huge WWs that seem to be lead; but I am still highly suspicious of them; and the knife, side cutters and a file still leaves me in doubt; that's why I have brought out my magnet. The magnet does not work on them; but I don;t know if magnets are attracted to zink or not.

I am printing this entire conversation to put into my personal reloading book; for info that is difficult to find answers to. I find the answers and comments coming into this thread to be invaluable!
Thanks to all.
Ken

[zxcvbob]

All the zinc weights I've found said "Zn" on them. (I've heard that some of them say "Honda" instead of "Zn" but I haven't verified this)

If you pull out all the weights that are obviously zinc or steel, you should be able to melt what's left, slowly. Any zinc or aluminum weights will float on top when it's just melted and you give it a stir.

[Brick85]

Magnets are not attracted to zinc or most other metals, but if they're steel, iron, or nickel, or cobalt, watch out!

[Joe_Kidd]

OK I've read the thread..bottom line, IF I have some zinc in my my lead mix, the result will be difficulty pouring into my mold? New to this process and only casting for plinking at lower velocities at this point.

[alamogunr]

I picked up a couple of buckets of WW today. As a side note they cost $30/bucket. Total weight of the 2 buckets was 320 lbs. The owner told his guys to mound them up in the buckets. I'm not going to complain since I probably won't be getting any more after another shop fills the two buckets I left with them. If I get any kind of yield from these, I should have enough to last me the rest of my life. If not, I'll buy clean alloy. I'm getting too old to hoist these buckets around.

Back to the thread. I have sorted thru one bucket and am planning to weigh each pile of sorted material. Got dark so it will have to wait until tomorrow. I have a big pile of stick on weights. More than I've ever gotten from a bucket before. If I were estimating, I would say that these would weigh about 30-40 lbs. The zinc, iron, steel, rubber, etc. probably won't be over 5-6 lbs. I had never used the side cutters to test for zinc before. It is an eye opener. Some of the stick-ons that I culled, I would have sworn were zinc until I hit them with the side cutter. Most of what I had thrown out went back on the lead pile. Only a few of the clip-ons turned out to be zinc or possibly, steel(iron). I probably missed some that I threw in with the rest of the clip-ons, but watching the temp should get these.

John
W.TN

[MT Gianni]

OK I've read the thread..bottom line, IF I have some zinc in my my lead mix, the result will be difficulty pouring into my mold? New to this process and only casting for plinking at lower velocities at this point.

Joe, the results will be improper fillout. The bullets will have gaps, voids and holes.

[zxcvbob]

And it will pour like cottage cheese.

[alamogunr]

As I said in my post yesterday, I finished sorting the 2nd bucket of WW this morning. I weighed each pile.

Misc Trash incl. non-lead weights----- 11 lbs 3.5%
Stick-on weights-------------------------- 45 lbs 14%
Clip-on weights---------------------------262 lbs 83%

Total 318 lbs

I didn't use a magnet to differentiate between zinc and iron alloy weights. I wish I had. I believe all the iron alloy weights were stamped Fe. Some of the zinc weights were stamped Zn but not all. The non-metallic trash included with the non-lead weights couldn't have been more than ½ lb. These buckets were cleaner than just about any I have ever gotten. Very few butts, only 1 lug nut, a few sticky tags from tires and fewer rubber stems, etc than usual. The clip-on weights had a bigger % of large weights than usual. By large I mean about 4-6" long. I guess this shop has more truck(not semi) business than most shops.

I'm expecting about an 80% yield of clean ingots from these 2 buckets. The only time I've exceeded that was a couple of buckets that had quite a few very large weights mixed in. These were ¼ lb and some may have been ½ lb. This was from a shop that does a lot of "over the road truck" business.

I hope someone finds this interesting. I did.

John
W.TN

[TheCaptain]

Hi John (and everyone else too),

I found your post very interesting since I have been yielding around 80% as well !!! So, in my opinion, you are doing good. I am glad I am not the only one taking note of the yield. By keeping track, we will no doubt notice the "decline" of yield, as lead WW's are phased out. I am sure I don't have to preach to the choir here... WW's are already banned in Europe and as most know, the push is on to prohibit the use of lead WW's (and other lead products) in the USA. I hope and pray that the yield drops ever so slowly!!

With kind regards,

Kathie:Fire:

[RoyRogers]

Glad I found this thread (& the site). Bought my 1st WW today & got 1 1/2 5 gal buckets full for $20 but have no idea how much trash is in there. I'd say in all the buckets weight ~ 200#. Have my 1st mold, ladle, & flux on order from Midway. I'll be using a fish cooker, surplus pot, plumber's ladle & muffin tin for smelting. I have 3 1# bars of 50/50 and 3 of 95/5 solder. Assuming 75% yield of smelted metal, what else do I need? Pure lead? How much per 10# of WW? I know I won't need to use all my solder but how much would be in order? Sorry for all the newbie questions and yes I have been using the search feature & will continue to do so. If anyone can point me to a few good threads for newbie smelters I'd be grateful. The shop I bought my WW from does have one more bucket of weights - should I buy it or sort the batch I got today 1st to check for junk? They said I was the 5th person to call looking for weights today! Another shop I called said something similar and all the other shops that had weights wanted $25 per bucket.

Knowing me I'll get all the stuff to cast and the EPA or some other agency will outlaw lead entirely & I'll be stuck with a bunch of back breaking buckets of lead. :confused:

[Jim_Fleming]

Roy Rogers... When the EPA outlaws your lead, I'll dispose of every ounce of it for you, in a safe, sage, and proper manner... Give it to me. and I promise I won't charge you very much at all... :bigsmyl2:




Knowing me I'll get all the stuff to cast and the EPA or some other agency will outlaw lead entirely & I'll be stuck with a bunch of back breaking buckets of lead. :confused:

[phishroy]

Hello. Im new to bullet casting and I got my first pile of WW today, lucky I saw this thread.
I found so many steel, aluminum and zinc WW.
There were also some funky ones that I have never seen in my life.
They were like hollow plastic tubes, about ¼ inch thick and where stick ons. I cut one open and poured the content out, it was filled with lots of round ball pellets which I think are lead.

There were allot of zinc clip ons which did not have any Zn markings on them, I did the squeeze test.
Lots of stick on zinc as well.
A few aluminum ones.

Overall I think about 10% to 15%$ of the batch was not lead.

[ra_balke]

Humm... zink in Wheel weights again.
Shrug..

I have cast at least 100,000 bullets, over the last 40 years.

I mean, I don't like zink wheel weights, cause they are a pain to cast, but I have buckets of zink cast pistol bullets, and once you get the hang of casting zink, they cast ok.

Keep your mould squeeky clean.
Use brake cleaner to clean it, and a tooth brush.

Next, pencil in the entire mould cavity with a #2 pencil. The entire cavity !

CAST HOT !

What will happen is the zink bullet appears dirty, there is nothing you can do about that.

Also the zink will not want to fill out in the cavity.

So, use very hot lead.
Use a very hot mould.

Then, pour a good header puddle, and while the header puddle is liquid hot, drop the mould about an inch on to a wood surface, just to jar it a little. that will knock the hot lead into the tight places of the mould.

Once you get the hang of casting zink, they cast pretty well.

x

Dont use them for deer hunting cause the hardness and expancion characteristics are unknown.
For game, use lead tin, or good quality wheel weight metal, air cooled.

[rwt101]

I am new to the forum and just getting started to cast bullets. I was afraid that lead was going to be banned. I don't know how much I can afford to buy. I guess I will do what I can. Also do you think that lead bullets are going to be banned also?
Bob T

[armyrat1970]

I am new to the forum and just getting started to cast bullets. I was afraid that lead was going to be banned. I don't know how much I can afford to buy. I guess I will do what I can. Also do you think that lead bullets are going to be banned also?
Bob T

Welcome Bob T. With this new administration, who knows what will happen next. I suggest if you are getting into casting you try to find a good source for wheelweights, like a tire repair shop, and buy what you can. Roof jacks are usually pure lead if you run across any. If someone in the neighborhood is have a new roof put on stop and ask them if you can have to old roof jacks. If you get serious about casting you will never have enough alloy. The cheaper way to go would be any type of bullets you can find at the range and pick up. Any free lead you can aquire like roof jacks. Buying wheelweights from a repair shop and you can always buy online from places like MidWay USA. Of course that will cost a litle more but you can get some good alloy.
Again Welcome.

[Jim_Fleming]

Think about it this way Bob...

How much do you shoot a year? How old are you? Don't answer me publicly or privately, just do the math questions there in your home.

Once you get started reloading, you're very highly likely going to triple or quadruple your shooting, (if you've been reloading you probably already know that.)

Anyway, the point is do the math, Sir... How many of what kind of bullets are you likely to shoot in a years time. How many years do you think you're going to shoot...? Multiply and add the combined numbers up...

Me personally? I just bought FIVE HUNDRED (500) POUNDS of wheel weights... And that's not all that I have, by any stretch of the imagination.

LOL!

I also am very seriously interested in making a bullet trap for recycling my lead, just in case I run out...

P.S. Welcome to the best dang Reloading Forum on the 'Net...



I am new to the forum and just getting started to cast bullets. I was afraid that lead was going to be banned. I don't know how much I can afford to buy. I guess I will do what I can. Also do you think that lead bullets are going to be banned also?
Bob T

[Saint]

Has anyone ever tried sorting by using a voltmeter, i don't have any zinc ww to try it with but if anyone wants to try let us know how it turns out.

[Lee]

Voltmeter? That's a new one to me. If you get a bottle of muriatic acid from the hardware store(unless it too, is banned now!!) it will fizz like the bajasus on zinc but just bubble slightly on lead. Steel reaction will be somewhere in the middle, tending more like lead. Zinc in acid will make you sit up and take notice. I don't worry about steel, it floats on the melt, just skim it off, done. There's another posting running around about using sulfur to clean up a molten mess of zinc contaminated lead, sounds like it should work............Lee

[lwknight]

Has anyone ever tried sorting by using a voltmeter, i don't have any zinc ww to try it with but if anyone wants to try let us know how it turns out.

I would doubt that you would have any luck that way. I have no idea what readings to expect but I'm sure that the coatings would make it difficult to get an actual contact.
With 100s of WWs to test, any difficulty at all would be a tedious nightmare.

[Lee]

BTW, get a bottle of "The Works" toilet bowl cleaner. 20% hydrocloric acid and that will make the zinc jump up and take notice........
.
.
.(Ya know I ain't green, but the stuff mentioned above, IMHO, is probably one of the worst stufffs you could ever put down a drain.............

[giz189]

Hey Guys, I found this web site [http://hb-ok207.en.alibaba.com ] that lists a lot of pictures of ww's with the various letters and #'s on them and the composition of each. This is a ww manufacturer in China. Might help some.

[Dick Dastardly]

And, for fishing out those steel and iron pieces and the Zn weights with steel clips, I use a garage floor magnet. It really does a job at fishing out the steel. Then, I skim the remainder and flux the batch and make ingots.

DD-DLoS

[jbunny]

it's little johnny's turn who is waveing franticly in the back row.
i believe in the kiss principle. i use a sharp hard steel blade knife.
the knife will dig in the lead ones and not in the others. as long
as u can stay focus on which bucket is which. no more than 2 shots
of scotch when ur doing this.
jb

[David2011]

How about just looking for the rivets? I've yet to see a lead WW that had the clip riveted on or a Zn/Fe WW that didn't have the clip riveted on. Has anyone seen a zinc or iron/steel WW that had the clip cast into it?

David

[David2011]

OK, I haven't looked at this thread for a while. After looking back a ways it seems that some zinc is slipping in as stick-ons. They should be easily identified because they will be far harder to bend than lead stick-ons.

As noted earlier, weights marked AL are not aluminum. They have a plastic coating on them that goes away in the smelting process as do a lot of the newer WWs.

Smelt at about 650 degrees F by the thermometer and any that slip by will float to the top unmelted. As much as I hated to shell out for a thermometer, I have never regretted buying one. It makes casting much easier by eliminating a lot of guesswork. I also discovered that the thermostat on my furnace may have drifted quite a bit. I had adjusted it to match the thermometer about 2-1/2 years ago after giving the melt plenty of time to stabilize. Two nights ago I couldn't get the boolits to not wrinkle. When I checked it I found the melt to be 40-50 degrees cooler than where the thermostat was set.

David

[mold maker]

How about just looking for the rivets? I've yet to see a lead WW that had the clip riveted on or a Zn/Fe WW that didn't have the clip riveted on. Has anyone seen a zinc or iron/steel WW that had the clip cast into it?

David

Yes there are now some poured zinc weights. I have only found a couple, but they do exist. I was surprised at the lack of rivets.

[Bill*]

yup...found a few with no rivets also

[shooterg]

The only zinc weights I've found were cast - only rivets I've found were in steel weights. I had a PILE of WW I THOUGHT might be zinc , but after getting a good thermometer, found most were good stuff.

[David2011]

Thanks for the new info.

David

[leadman]

There are lead WW that look like they are riveted, but are cast. The clips must all have the holes now, so the lead goes thru it and kinda looks like it is riveted.

[saigafan2008]

My last batch of WW had more Fe and Zn w/o rivets than with rivets. And now I'm getting both Fe and Zn stick-on WWs in the bucket, too.

FYI, all but one of the WW's marked 5 grams was Zn or Fe, both stick-on and clip-on.

This is in Central Texas, YMMV...

Carl

[circle141]

I was in the diving weight business for twenty years, Sold 500, 000 lbs of lead
a year. When I would melt down WW's, the zinc weights were the last to melt.

I would pull them before they had a chance to melt. Also I found that lead with zinc in it could be helped by adding builders sand to the melt, Stir it in well, the
zinc will stick to the sand. Remove the sand, try again.



Mike Circle
circle141@msn.com
727-544-1295

[DLCTEX]

I have posted on other threads about zinc, but haven't on this one. I did some experimenting with zinc contamination and some of my observations are as follows. Zinc requires a lot more heat to melt. The most foolproof method to avoid contamination is to watch the melt and when the lead goes from slush to barely liquid, skim out any floaters. According to Lyman zinc will alloy with lead to about 2% only. Excess zinc will separate and float as a slush (oatmeal is an apt description) and can be skimmed off. The remainder is not very detrimental to casting good boolits. I have tested them for maleability by smashing them with a hammer on an anvil. The boolits compare closely with WW boolits. The color is more like the color of sterling silver (whitish). It generally requires a little more heat to get good fillout, but is less likely to frost. Many have proclaimed you will ruin your casting equipment if even a small amount of zinc slips into your melt. Not so. You may have to clean the spout of your bottom pour if you have a higher percent of zinc, but it is not any harder to get out than dirt from smelting WW in your casting pot. Moulds show no effect at all. If you contaminate your melt with zinc and want to throw it out, I'll pay the shipping if you'll send it to me. DALE
I will also say that contamination can be more of a problem for ladle casters than bottom pour guys, as the zinc floats and I have cast boolits until the level drops to where the zinc reaches the spout of the BP.

[1911Clone]

Zn DEFINITELY zinc.
Fe DEFINITELY steel.

I was curious about the AL ones in this batch... Does that mean they might have some Aluminum in them? Or are they lead? The seem to be a fairly soft metal, but then again, Aluminum IS a fairly soft metal.

Anybody have any idea what these 'Type' Code letters are or mean?

[/QUOTE]

AL means that are for use on Aluminum rims. Come on guys, Light aluminum being used for wheel wright? I don't think so.

[ubetcha]

some of the codes on some ww indicate the style of rim the can fit on.For instance,most GM alloy rims use a ww with a MC on them.Other designs use AL,AN etc.I always check the ww two different ways.One by melting at a low temp and the other before melting by trying to cut it with a side cutters.
Zinc and steel can hardly be cut or even make dent while lead cuts fairly easy

[Colt .45]

Slightly off topic; Ive been going around to garages around here to try and get used wheel weights to get my lead stock up ( currently 130 lbs!). Today some schmuck tried to tell me that he had a guy paying him FIVE DOLLARS A POUND for lead wheel weights. uhh yeah :veryconfu next place on the list...

for clarification all the local scrap dealers quoted me their buying price of 40C a lb and 1$ selling per lb.

[SciFiJim]

You should have offered to sell him all he wants at $2.50 a pound. That way he could double his money without having to do any work.

[PatMarlin]

Yeah and Rosie O. just became the next Miss America ..:mrgreen:

[M4Sherman]

Good to know! I will be picking up mine from a local tire shop and will have to sort them so this give me a decent way to ID all of those pesky buggers.

[hiram1]

hi to you bro hope your doing well london ar 339

[danyboy]

Casted some bullets yesterday and last batch gave me a hell of a hard time. Probably got some zinc into it cause after reading this topic, I found the alloy quite sticky and I just couldn't pour it into the mold (Lyman 150gr., .266 double mold for sweedish 6.5 x 55). I don't have a thermometer but I tried everything to make it work. I will get rid of what I left in the pot yesterday and make sure I ain't got any Zinc wheel wheight in the pot from now on.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
OK- just a thought ,cast Zn bullets- SEE MOLD MAINTENANCE & DESINE - TREAD ON MAKING A MOLD.
Also my research thread on casting Zn.

[lenco12]

I've yet to run into a certified zinc wheelweight, but I have found quite a few steel ones. They are marked "Fe", and are easily verified with a magnet. Place the magnet on the end of the weight, because the clips are all steel.

I run into quite a few zinc, steel and plastic in the WWs I get from the GM dealership, but rare in the buckets I get from the independent tire stores.

[luvtn]

Hi,
For those of us who pick up the ww from the road look in the outside lane where vehicles stop fairly rapidly at a stop light. Every few days you will find several. In less than a week I've found a couple of pounds as I walk the 1.3 miles to work and back. Good exercise and made sweeter by finding lead.
luvtn

[2wheelDuke]

I've got some stick-on ww's from my last batch that were definitely zinc. I had some suspicions about some of the clip on's I've picked up from the roads while out running.

They have a different, glittery grey look to them, like a metallic paint coat on them. I can still cut them with a sidecutters easily.

I found one clip on ww that's actually marked zn. My hand is strong enough that I can clip 1/4-20 allthread with my lineman pliers, but I can't do much to that zn marked ww with a sidecutters.

I'm waiting until I have enough to try smelting still. Lead isn't easy to come by here. I'm in a densely packed suburban sprawl that spans 3 counties. There's tons of tire shops, but every one I've gone to says they already have a deal with somebody that gets their ww's.

[SciFiJim]

They have a different, glittery grey look to them, like a metallic paint coat on them. I can still cut them with a sidecutters easily.

Those are lead. They have been painted to make them look pretty on the fancy car tires.


I found one clip on ww that's actually marked zn. My hand is strong enough that I can clip 1/4-20 allthread with my lineman pliers, but I can't do much to that zn marked ww with a sidecutters.

Use this as your guide. All zinc WWs are that hard.

[old turtle]

38 SuperAuto,
I used pliers just as you show and it worked very well. The 80pounds of ww's had a few Fe and quite a few of the Zn. When I had a weight which was not marked and I could not dent it or it was questionable I put it with the zinc. Results were good.

[2wheelDuke]

Those are lead. They have been painted to make them look pretty on the fancy car tires.



Use this as your guide. All zinc WWs are that hard.


That's basically what I did. I also had lots of little "tips" of those kind of WW that came from the tire shop. They clip the WW with a dikes if they need less weight I guess when they're balancing sometimes.

I smelted my puny collection of WW's down last night and wound up with about 30 pounds.

I thought I'd sorted the stickons well, but a few zinc still sneaked in. I skimmed them off with the burning, sticky dross from the glue.

Somebody already posted a pic of them, they're rectangular with beveled sides and an "S" cast into them.

[badbob454]

an 's' cast into them where ? i dont remember seeing those

[mattbowen]

38 Super Auto;

Thanks for the warning, I am very new to casting and didn't know anything about the Zink, or steel ww. I just picked up about 70 lbs. of ww and would have just started melting them down to make some more ingets.

Thanks again.

Matt

[arjacobson]

These:

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u91/gwalchmai_munn/IMG_0331.jpg

I am thinking are aluminum.

I have also tried to cut wheelweights with a razor bladed utility knife. If the razor drops into the metal and can peel off a shaving, its lead.

If it takes a lot of effort to cut into, it's NOT lead, but some other metal, steel, aluminum or maybe zinc??

I had some just like it (the ones marked 25 and 35) They were zinc!!! The bottom weight in the picture looks like lead and the other one I have no idea. I have noticed that most of the zinc weights I get that are NOT marked zn have only one number and no other markings-hope this helps a bit

[hgiigh33]

i have a quick question. On the strips of lead with the sticky foam on the back, how do you remove this foam stuff efficiently. it takes me like 5 minutes to get all that junk off of one strip of abut 10 with my hands. any better ways?

[stainless1911]

I prep my lead in a cast iron skillet, then pour it into ingots for my bullet making pot. Just throw them in, and let it burn off.

[hgiigh33]

what do you use to heat the skillet?
and would it be bad to throw it into my lee production pot IV without prepping it first? i had actually planned to just dump it into the lee pot, scoop out all the trash that floated to the top with a spoon with bottom holes, and then pour that into a mini muffin pan to make small mini muffin ingots that i would then use for good melting.

[hgiigh33]

oh and also, im really new to melting and i have a question. If you put in a one pound lead bar, but you only use say 2 ounces, what do you do with the rest of the lead that is left in the bottom of the pot? will it harden there and never be able to get out? can you just leave it and when your ready to melt again its just there, ready to be melted?

[zxcvbob]

i have a quick question. On the strips of lead with the sticky foam on the back, how do you remove this foam stuff efficiently. it takes me like 5 minutes to get all that junk off of one strip of abut 10 with my hands. any better ways?

You leave it and let it burn off. (they are not dirty, they are just prefluxed)

[SciFiJim]

what do you use to heat the skillet?
and would it be bad to throw it into my lee production pot IV without prepping it first? i had actually planned to just dump it into the lee pot, scoop out all the trash that floated to the top with a spoon with bottom holes, and then pour that into a mini muffin pan to make small mini muffin ingots that i would then use for good melting.

Don't use your bottom pour pot to render WWs. That introduces crud to the pour spout and causes drips.
This is what I use. I got the pot at the Goodwill store for a buck. It's 3 quarts and made out of stainless steel. A full pot of WWs will melt down to a third of a pot of lead. I wouldn't fill it any more than that because of the weight on the BBQ (its braced but still...)
http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt47/SciFiJim_photobucket/Castingsetup.jpg

I don't use the BBQ to cook with. The burners finally burned out and my kids bought me a really nice replacement.

[mold maker]

A magnet will attract the iron weight tips, and lots of the zinc has a Z or Zn on them.
A set of pliers with the wire cutting gap at the jaws will tell you what you have. Good lead WWs will mark easily, while the junk WWs don't mark at all. The pliers work on the stickons also.
The foam rubber and glue will stink to high heaven, but a pot with a lid and some candle wax or a spoonful of used oil, will allow melting of the stickon weights. When you open the pot be ready to ignite the fumes and expect a poooof. Let the flames die and stir well. This brings all the trash and dross to the surface to be removed.
I forgot to mention this MUST be done outside. Burning the smoke really reduces the stink factor, and gets rid of a lot of the smoke.

[PatMarlin]

I need some Zink. If someone would like to trade for some CFF that would be good.

Also- has anyone been following the elimination of zink in new engine oils and possibly potential lubrication problems without it?

I saw a quick note somewheres about that and have not followed up on it.

[2wheelDuke]

I need some Zink. If someone would like to trade for some CFF that would be good.

Also- has anyone been following the elimination of zink in new engine oils and possibly potential lubrication problems without it?

I saw a quick note somewheres about that and have not followed up on it.

I've got a little bit I've been sorting out. I haven't weighed it, but it's probably a couple pounds tops.

[Suo Gan]

The weights I have that have "MC" on them are painted lead. The two in the middle look like they are steel, and the top is probably zinc. I do not think aluminum is used as ww material, at least I have never seen any, seems like it would be too light and cost more to make than steel, which begs the question of its use. Get a big pair of linemans pliers and try to cut into the wieghts you suspect, the zinc weights will dent with a lot of force, the lead of course will cut easily.

As to the guys question asking about rendering in his lead pot, I have done it that way, and so have many others. It will clog up your bottom pour spout eventually. When I did it, I just used a dipper to get the molten lead out rather than the spout which saved the spout getting gummed up for the most part, but if you do enough the entire pot will need to be cleaned. Just flux the melt real good when you are rendering, I only use sawdust these days and it works great. Do not force sawdust under the surface, just let it cook and smolder for awhile and then stir it. You can leave lead in the pot to be left to freeze and then remelt next time, or take it all out and pour into ingots. Just go along by trial and error and get your feet wet, don't be scared, don't worry you are doing it all wrong. You probably will, but there is only so much that can be read and learned, the rest requires you to just do it, over and over. Make sure you are wearing a pair of goggles over your eyeballs.

And keep the immortal words of my shop teacher in mind as you go, "HEY, HEY, HEY!!!! WO, WO, WO!!! WHAT IN GODS GREEN EARTH ARE YOU DOING THERE????!!!!" or my trig teacher, "JUST DO IT! HOW ARE YOU GOING TO LEARN IF YOU DON'T DO IT?" or my drill sergeant "FOR CRIS SAKES DO I HAFTA COME DOWN THERE AND SHOW YOU HOW TO DIDDLE YOURSELF TOO????" or dad, "FOR THE NINE THOUSANDTH TIME, YOU GOTTA LEARN! I AINT GONNA BE AROUND FOREVER TO SHOW YOU THESE THINGS!!!" or .....

[rhoggman]

So I am new to casting, and on my first try, I'm sure I melted some zinc in with my lead. If you get it hot enough it seems to make fine boolits. Just wondering what the big stink is? My boolits are definitely not brittle so I am guessing there is enough lead not to significantly affect it. My 310 grain 44 Mag Lee (C430-310-RF) molds are yielding 303.4 gr boolits. Would that much of a difference be detrimental in any kind of way?

I'll likely be using these for hunting, so I am not really worried if they are a little hard. They could be 100% PURE LEAD and I'm sure they would still blow right through a Virginia whitetail without slowing down a whole lot. As long as they are accurate I'm not sure how much I should care. Perhaps a wise boolit casting sage could school my infantile brain.

I was using an ice cream scooper to get out the dross and clips.... It melted too:) I can still scratch the boolits with my fingernail.

[Bulltipper]

Rhoggman, Don't sweat it, a little zinc in your boolits isn't a bad thing, they actually shoot a little cleaner if you are having leading issues. If you have a good lube you won't be having leading issues anyway. when zinc gets nasty is when you let the smelt run away with a bunch of zinc WW's in there and they all melt in. Apparently (according to my research and the LAPSC) zinc will only alloy with lead cleanly to about 2% zinc. after that it gets oatmealy and very colorful ( Beautiful blues and purples. The problem is then the different melting temps and the tendancy to clog your bottom pour at lower temps. After a few 5 gal buckets of WW sorting you will get really good at sorting. you can see the ones that are FE by shape and the sound they make. Zinc usually say ZN or have a symbol by the Mfr that will clue you in. They make a different sound too kind of a click (Iron makes a ping) Lead makes a "thock or a thud. I can tell what a WW is by the sound it makes when i fumble it...
Have Fun!

[toddn84]

on thing i noticed about the zinc stickies is that there is a very small, less than 1/32 of an inch, piece if metal connecting them. Whereas the lead stickies had atleast a full 1/16 of metal connecting them.

[Kyrifleman]

I just tried casting some ingots for the first time tonight. I found some zink weights floating on the mix and I pulled them out, but they crumbled and a little bit fell in the mix. I only melted enough to make 2 muffins and a little puck about 1/4" thick. Would a few crumbles in that much lead be enough to ruin my ingots, or not? Should I just try to cast them and find out for myself?

[parrott1969]

You should be fine.

[SciFiJim]

Doing some guestimation, if you have five pounds of lead total in the melt and use Bulltipper's 2% figure, you will be fine with up to 1.5 oz of zinc. If it just a few crumbles, like parrott1696 said, "you should be fine".

[HDS]

Sorted weights today, damned dirty ones, got through a few pounds before I gave up in disgust, really didn't like sitting there with the dust flying from these things.

I think I'll just melt it all down at low heat and sort away the floaters. Seems to be 50% zink or iron weights, the rest is half/half stick-ons/clipon lead.

[fred2892]

In the UK we have had a ban on lead wheel weights since 2005. It was surprising how fast the tyre yards scrap bin levels of lead wheel weghts reduced. A couple of years ago you could hope for at least 50% lead wheel weights in a scrap bucket. I finally gave up looking at the end of last year when a 35lb bucket produced a total of 5oz of lead. Wish i'd hoarded a lot more than i did.

[HDS]

The ban is EU wide so its hitting everyone.

[mold maker]

Pure Zinc sells for over a dollar a pound, same as lead. Are ya sure they aren't worth collecting.
I've been forcasting this in the USA for years. Now that I have 8+ cubic feet of WW in ingot form, I get grief over hoarding.
I still hoard and trade the zinc back for soft lead.

[smokemjoe]

I have 120 Lbs. of bad lead now from bad wts. Learned my lesson the hard way after 50 years, got to sort them now.

[badbob454]

I have 120 Lbs. of bad lead now from bad wts. Learned my lesson the hard way after 50 years, got to sort them now.

hey smokem joe check the lead forum for a de-zincing with sulphur i guess it works from what iv read

[zxcvbob]

I have about 10 pounds of zinc'd lead. I'm thinking of pouring a bunch of silver dollar sized (real silver dollars) mini-ingots and adding them one-per-batch to my 20# boolit pot. It should act as a hardener if I don't use too much. Most of my lead is too soft anyway.

[HDS]

I have 120 Lbs. of bad lead now from bad wts. Learned my lesson the hard way after 50 years, got to sort them now.

Smelted too hot? I hear keeping it to 650 will eliminate that problem. So I'm waiting for my thermometer before I start on this.

[gester01]

I have read through this (as of now) entire 7 pages of postings and I got quite a lot of good information to think about. So, as my very 1st post, I would like to say, "Thanks to all of you!".

[mold maker]

I have read through this (as of now) entire 7 pages of postings and I got quite a lot of good information to think about. So, as my very 1st post, I would like to say, "Thanks to all of you!".

Welcome to Ya gester01
There is more knowledge available on this site, than all the printed matter put together, and it's free. I cast the wrong way for over 3 decades, and struggled to get good bullets. Now with what I've learned here, my BOOLIT'S are simple to make, and near perfect all the time.
Ya do understand that, this is very habit forming? It's an addiction that really grows, with each boolit cast. Most of us here, are firmly in it's grip, and don't even remember, when it enslaved us. ;>)

[a.squibload]

First step: admit you have a problem.
Second step: get rid of the addicting substance (send lead to me for disposal).

OK, somebody had to say it.


Same here, I've spent a lot of time reading on this site, have learned a LOT.
casting is not as frustrating when you have the information to improve it.
Thanks everyone!

I'm saving zinc WWs, either to trade for lead or to use in case the lead disappears.

[metweezer]

Smelted too hot? I hear keeping it to 650 will eliminate that problem. So I'm waiting for my thermometer before I start on this.

The melting temperature for lead is 621.5 degrees F.
The melting temperature for zinc is 787.15 degrees F.
So yes, keeping your temperature at 650 degrees will melt your lead and leave the zinc and steel unmelted and floating on top to be easily removed. :drinks:

[badbob454]

welcome Gester 01 the best to you and many years of casting ...love this sight its more addictive than casting ....he he

[Sonnypie]

Down South
That is wishful thinking!!
Once the Zinc is melted, you are screwed!! It becomes part of the alloy.
Would be akin to trying to separate the whisky from the ginger ale after it was poured.
Pepe Ray

Oh, I do that all the time.
The ginger ale turns to pee, and the whiskey turns to a silly grin. [smilie=s: :veryconfu

This is an Outstanding thread for a beginner like me.
Thank You mac1911 for the link! Greatly appreciated!

[DOMIDARKO]

As a complete newb, this thread has been extremely helpful. Sorted out 50 lbs of dirty WW and found 4 zn weights and about 1/2 lb of fe.

[SciFiJim]

Sorted out 50 lbs of dirty WW and found 4 zn weights and about 1/2 lb of fe.

That's a great ratio. About of third of what I am able to get is unusable. The dirt doesn't hurt anything. It will all come off in the melt.

[mold maker]

The ratio of zinc has fallen and the iron is increasing. It looks as if the WW makers have discovered a cheaper way to satisfy everyone but us.
Zinc is as expensive as lead, but cost more to make WWs. The iron is cheap and their being made over seas, out of our scrap. I guess that's some of the jobs Obama created, last night.

[bhardy57]

This thread is going to be very helpful a friend just dropped off 60 lbs. of wheel weights and this will be my first time sorting.

[Bullet Caster]

Well, I'm new to boolit casting also and have read the entire post of threads as I like to read. I sure envy you guys that are able to find wheel weights as they're non-existent in eastern TN. Went to Wally World and they told me they haven't used lead wheel weights in the past 2 years, and they have all went to steel stick on weights. My only recourse is to read all about it. Thanks to everyone who has posted here. I have a friend who works at a trailer manufacturing plant and he has promised to save any lead ww for me. So far 0 lbs, 0 ozs. I've even thought about melting down my BP round balls and use what few I have to cast for my .45 colt clone. Looks like lead supply from tire shops is quickly coming to an end. I've yet to call a few roofers and see what the Pb supply is. Might try that next. BC

[Whiterabbit]

When someone comes up with a safe way to process battery lead, it'll be a slam dunk again.

[badbob454]

When someone comes up with a safe way to process battery lead, it'll be a slam dunk again.

trade your battery lead in for scrap lead ?

[badbob454]

Well, I'm new to boolit casting also and have read the entire post of threads as I like to read. I sure envy you guys that are able to find wheel weights as they're non-existent in eastern TN. Went to Wally World and they told me they haven't used lead wheel weights in the past 2 years, and they have all went to steel stick on weights. My only recourse is to read all about it. Thanks to everyone who has posted here. I have a friend who works at a trailer manufacturing plant and he has promised to save any lead ww for me. So far 0 lbs, 0 ozs. I've even thought about melting down my BP round balls and use what few I have to cast for my .45 colt clone. Looks like lead supply from tire shops is quickly coming to an end. I've yet to call a few roofers and see what the Pb supply is. Might try that next. BC

dont let them tell you they dont have any , the cars and trucks are still coming in with lead on them, and must be removed ..

[Russel Nash]

the problem with a big retailer or national franchise like Wally World is that they have already been contracted out to some recycling business which swings by their stores once a week and picks up both the old batteries and wheel weights.

You need to find several mom and pop independent tire dealers to get your wheelweights from.

They are too small that the recycling businesses haven't bothered contracting with them.

[Fredx10sen]

Just scored another five gallon bucket full to the top from a shop that deals in large truck, tractor and autos. Had to force him to take ten dollars. He said he would have more in two weeks. Great guy to deal with too. There are lots of very large stick-on soft lead through-out the bucket. I have been going to this guy for years. First time he pointed out back of the shop and said have at it. 2500 lbs later I had cleaned up all those they were tossing back there on the ground. Been great every since. Also scored some more solder drippings from the radiator shop. Had to force him to take five bucks as he said twenty was way tooooo much. I thanked both of these fellas and said I appreciate it. Both have said come back. :) Oh ya that full bucket today had to be seperated into two so as to get them into the truck. Dolly helped get the to them to the smelting area :)

[Boyscout]

In our area the scrap dealers even hit the little guys. I was able to get about 400 lbs of WW before my contact dried up. I bought some Roto metals 70/30 to harden it up since I don't have the ability to melt pure antimony.

[Wolfer]

The last few years I have been doing most of my target shooting into half of a 55 gallon plastic drum filled with sand. A couple times a year I will shovel the sand thru a box with a 1/4" screen on the bottom that sits on my wheelbarrow and sift out all the lead. This (range scrap) is already pre-mixed (more or less) and just needs to be melted down,cleaned up,and poured into ingots ready for the pot. Most of the boolits I shoot have been shot several times before but every so often I will have to mix a new batch because everything I have is in the tub. I also lose several shooting at various rocks,sticks,and critters

[mold maker]

Get what you can while its there. Around here the tire shops are tighter, with the weights, than Aunt Gurtey's girdle. They all claim some haz waste order, or forced return rule.
Truth is they signed a contract with the devil (battery co) and think they are getting a deal.
Little do they know!!!!!!!!!!

[Jim_Fleming]

If you're willing to take the time and you are willing to spend the money, wheel weights and lead can be found on ebay.

I personally lucked into a deal and bought linotype at 60 cents a pound. I got 320 lbs of it, too.

Sent from my Droid

[2571]

Have not seen much pb in two years. All the WW I get, even from ghetto stores servicing used cars, is Zinc. Instead of picking zinc out of a 5 gal bucket, I now pick out the lead.

OTOH, zinc casts into acceptable sling shot missiles.

[zxcvbob]

I have about 10 pounds of zinc'd lead. I'm thinking of pouring a bunch of silver dollar sized (real silver dollars) mini-ingots and adding them one-per-batch to my 20# boolit pot. It should act as a hardener if I don't use too much. Most of my lead is too soft anyway.

Six months later and I finally got a round toit. I cast a bunch of little oatmeal ingots; they weigh 4 to 5 ounces each. Except for the porosity, they look more like solder than lead, and they ring when I bang them together even tho' they were air-cooled.

[destrux]

All the brand new cars come with lead-free weights... new environmental laws from what I've read. They don't even have lead in engine bearings anymore. They're aluminum instead. They're even eliminating it from car batteries... the new top shelf Porsches have lead free batteries ($3000 each!). It'll be 10 years before they come down in price to be used in cheap cars though.

There's no shortage of lead wheel weights still being installed though. I remove about four or five 5-gallon buckets of them from cars each year, and every car with steel wheels or cruddy aluminum wheels gets lead clip on weights to balance the new tires. They're still the cheapest, and fastest way to balance a wheel.

If anything is hurting the amount of used clip-on weights a bit it's the proliferation of aluminum wheels on new cars. Most of them don't have a place to use anything but a sticky weight, and even those that do we have to use sticky weights to prevent scratching the paint (or the poor quality aluminum wheels will corrode to the point they won't hold air in 4 years).

This thread makes me feel lucky I own a garage (for once).

[shadygrady]

well if you got zinc send it to me for lead

[ShooterOnTheLine]

Good information, thanks for sharing.

[kaptain kartridge]

I am new to this thread also. I first encountered Zinc in wheel weights and did not know what it was. a sample dissolved in some Hydrocloric acid and then I knew what I had. Unfortunately, it was alread melted into the mix. About the only thing I could say, is that as the metal is poured, the zinc will float, and as the last metal is poured, the lighter zinc will be in greated proportion in the last bullets, than the first ones. I have already encounterd all zinc bullets on the rannge backstop (outdoors) I believe all zinc bullets would be too hard for an indoor range (50 foot) and would bounce back to the firing line.

[Infidel]

If the range is properly designed, you shouldn't get a ricochet back. Of course, the guy that took his muffs off with the 50 cal. obviously didn't have a properly designed range.
Every so often, my bottom feeder smelter decides it wants to clog up for a few minutes, now I'm wondering if I have run a zinc weight through. I am usually pretty cautious with them and always fish them out quickly, but maybe I had one get by me.
On the battery comment, I have thought about trying to reclaim one, to see how hard it is to process. You should be able to neutralize the sulphuric acid with some soda bicarb. After that it's pretty inert. Cut the case open and viola!! Glorious lead. Just don't get anything on you. They used to routinely rebuild batteries years ago. I think some forklift batteries are still rebuilt.
I saw an article about most recycled batteries were shipped to a company in Michigan. They are crushed, the acid is collected and filtered to be recycled, the case is recycled and the lead is melted down and recycled.

[SciFiJim]

On the battery comment, I have thought about trying to reclaim one, to see how hard it is to process. You should be able to neutralize the sulphuric acid with some soda bicarb. After that it's pretty inert. Cut the case open and viola!! Glorious lead. Just don't get anything on you. They used to routinely rebuild batteries years ago. I think some forklift batteries are still rebuilt.
I saw an article about most recycled batteries were shipped to a company in Michigan. They are crushed, the acid is collected and filtered to be recycled, the case is recycled and the lead is melted down and recycled.

You might want to read this sticky posted in the Lead and lead alloy's subforum before you start cutting into car batteries. It really is something not to be messed with.

Why Car Batteries Are Dangerous (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?138362-Why-Car-Batteries-Are-Dangerous)

[snowshooze]

Here is an article from another forum by someone who knows more about this...
http://www.shootersforum.com/bullet-casting/14155-various-wheel-weight-compositions.html

One point he brings up is that zinc would not last as a wheel weight.

[snowshooze]

It shmears down yer bore from stem to stern.

[SciFiJim]

I have been sorting the WWs that I have collected in the last 6 months. It appears that the zinc WWs are starting to decline. More and more steel WWs are replacing them. That makes some since as steel is probably the cheapest metal to make them out of.

[Triggernosis]

I have been sorting the WWs that I have collected in the last 6 months. It appears that the zinc WWs are starting to decline. More and more steel WWs are replacing them. That makes some since as steel is probably the cheapest metal to make them out of.I've found that same thing, too.

[wichitan]

only sure way to tell them apart is a scuff test. rub them on concrete and lead will show you the individual sand scratches. im just glad i work at a scrap yard and have a cheap sorce

[207driver]

Great stuff here by all, especially the battery bit! I've been a lurker for some time now, but decided to get with it and join. Most of my stash comes from hard work at the gravel pit (and the like) ranges with a 1/4" screen--luv those 68 caliber BP guys.

[What The Chuck]

I got some WW's labeled TT, AL-MC, FN, and MC. Are these maunfacturers marks or is this something I should be concerned with?

[H.Callahan]

I got some WW's labeled TT, AL-MC, FN, and MC. Are these maunfacturers marks or is this something I should be concerned with?
More than likely manufacturer's markings. Take a pair of side cutters and try to cut them. If they cut relatively easily, they are lead. If you can hardly make a dent, then they are something else (steel or zinc) and put it aside.

[badbob454]

yes i agree with inspector H. callahan ...the letters mean different wheel types , the only letters to worry about is Fe and Zn or if the name ends with a z for instance reg , or regz ... the regz is zinc.

[mold maker]

I haven't seen the regz on any, but there are some zinc and iron that aren't marked as such. I have noticed a lot less zinc, and a whole lot more iron. It's the new normal, no matter where ya live.
I don't bother reading them, I just try to cut, and sort into 4 buckets. COWW, SOWW, Zinc, and iron. You'll be surprised how much iron you'll have to sell in just a bucket full, especially when ya add the cleaned clips. Even at it's low price, it will pay for your gas.
So far I've just saved the zinc. It will be traded for lead.

[SciFiJim]

I haven't seen the regz on any, but there are some zinc and iron that aren't marked as such. I have noticed a lot less zinc, and a whole lot more iron. It's the new normal, no matter where ya live.
I don't bother reading them, I just try to cut, and sort into 4 buckets. COWW, SOWW, Zinc, and iron. You'll be surprised how much iron you'll have to sell in just a bucket full, especially when ya add the cleaned clips. Even at it's low price, it will pay for your gas.
So far I've just saved the zinc. It will be traded for lead.

So, how much are you getting for the steel at the recyclers?

[scarter]

The melting point for zinc is about 100 degrees higher than for lead, so i always scoop out the junk as soon as the lead reaches its melting point and figured that that kept the material zinc free. Is that not correct?

[mold maker]

The price of iron and steel varies like the rest, but a bucket full is less of a problem to haul, than bed frames and other junk. I wait till the price is up, or I have a trailer load of stuff to recycle. Like I said it is easy to haul, and pays for the fuel.
As I get older, I look for a better profit, and less labor.

[Swamp Man]

The price of iron and steel varies like the rest, but a bucket full is less of a problem to haul, than bed frames and other junk. I wait till the price is up, or I have a trailer load of stuff to recycle. Like I said it is easy to haul, and pays for the fuel.
As I get older, I look for a better profit, and less labor.
I have 3 washers and 2 dryers 3 mowers and a truck load of galvanized pipe. The recycler is about 20 miles from me would you think it's worth my time and gas to haul it all over there? Or would I be better off giving it to the junk man that picks up junk and hauls it away for free?

[badbob454]

my guy gives 10c per pound for steel ww's , shady will get my zinckies . also if you dont sort them first the zinc on the bottom may melt before temp melts all the lead , so i sort mine , plus it keeps the molten lead from sticking to the zinc when removing them , but after sorting look for the floaters sometimes i miss one .. then you can scoop the floaters out with the dross.

[mold maker]

I have 3 washers and 2 dryers 3 mowers and a truck load of galvanized pipe. The recycler is about 20 miles from me would you think it's worth my time and gas to haul it all over there? Or would I be better off giving it to the junk man that picks up junk and hauls it away for free?

Unless your vehicle uses a lot of fuel It will put money in your pocket. To increase your profit, separate the aluminum, and motors, from the appliances. The better you are at this, the better you get paid.
Remember I am retired and my time isn't expensive. YMMV
I save spent primers and bad brass, along with plumbing valves etc, until the price is high. Thats when I take it all in one trip. This time of year there are lots of grills at the curb, that have a fair amount of aluminum.
I might be distant kin, to Hainey on Green Acres and Fred Sanford.

[BNE]

Swamp Man,
I just took a half van load of assorted junk, and i recieved $96 for it. I was surprised.

[BNE]

Also, the real treat was that someone had brought monotype in and I was able to buy 19#s for $.80 a pound.

[SciFiJim]

The melting point for zinc is about 100 degrees higher than for lead, so i always scoop out the junk as soon as the lead reaches its melting point and figured that that kept the material zinc free. Is that not correct?

I use this method as a last check. I sort my WWs, but a few always seem to sneak through the process.

[Swamp Man]

Thanks guys. I have a friend that has a washer/dryer graveyard he pulls parts from I was going to dump the washer/dryers there a while back but never did because I didn't want to drive them over. That's when I thought about giving them to the junk man but you guys have changed my mind I think I'll scrap them myself. I work for myself on my farm and have plenty of time so I'll load the truck and 20" trailer and run all of it over at one time and see what I can get. I'm sure I have more then enough junk here to load them both to the max and then some.

[Bzcraig]

The recycler I buy my lead from allows me to go thru his 'mixed lead bin' which has primarily ww in it. I am able to sort out the zinc from lead so I only bring home the good stuff. Down side is I have to pay .35/lb for it. The tire shops I have visited have not been to friendly in wanting to give up their junk. Probably the worry about being sued.............I do live in a state where the famous get acquitted of murder and........well I'll leave it there!

[H.Callahan]

For sure, pull the motors out of those appliances. I don't know where the rest of you are at, but a used electrical motor will bring $75 or more on Craigslist around here.

[shaggybull]

In my state they've outlawed lead WW all the new tires put on are balanced with the zinc or steel WW. What I've been doing is when I take a tire or rig in to get new tires I ask the tire guy for MY lead WW's. I get mine and they have been giving me the bucket as well.

[shadygrady]

zinc if you got any kind of zinc send it to me for lead

[Shooternz]

Hi Shady I would like to send you my zinc, but the cost would prohibitive it's 12 thousand miles give or take a mile, What do you do with them? Maybe I could turn them in to cash some how, I get squat from the scrap dealer

[Jim_Fleming]

Find a new scrap metals dealer? :confused:

[NHPaul]

Is there a good way to get the zinc out of the mix?

[Whiterabbit]

Hi Shady I would like to send you my zinc, but the cost would prohibitive it's 12 thousand miles give or take a mile, What do you do with them? Maybe I could turn them in to cash some how, I get squat from the scrap dealer

what can you do with them? cast into bullets! use a steel mold, one that you aren't particularly in love with. Ladle cast from a separate pot. separate pot, you can share molds and ladle if you clean them both. Never put the lead in with the zinc and vice versa, makes the famous oatmeal.

Casts just fine, you have to tap the mold to get the zinc to "seat" so to speak. Makes ugly bullets. But they don't need lube, they size easy enough, and you can shoot them with ridiculous amounts of powder. it makes for a flash bang at the range. Daylight visible muzzle flash.

Anyways, fun little plinkers every once in a long while.

[Jim_Fleming]

what can you do with them? cast into bullets! use a steel mold, one that you aren't particularly in love with. Ladle cast from a separate pot. separate pot, you can share molds and ladle if you clean them both. Never put the lead in with the zinc and vice versa, makes the famous oatmeal.

Casts just fine, you have to tap the mold to get the zinc to "seat" so to speak. Makes ugly bullets. But they don't need lube, they size easy enough, and you can shoot them with ridiculous amounts of powder. it makes for a flash bang at the range. Daylight visible muzzle flash.

Anyways, fun little plinkers every once in a long while.

Hhhhoooorrrrraaaaahhhhhh! :eek:

[kaptain kartridge]

Just remember, zinc gathered up after separating the lead WWs, can be ingoted up and sold to scrap yards for cash!! Yes, Zinc has cash value!!

[Hamish]

Just remember, zinc gathered up after separating the lead WWs, can be ingoted up and sold to scrap yards for cash!! Yes, Zinc has cash value!!

Who's our CB member who trades zink for PB????

[mold maker]

Who's our CB member who trades zink for PB????

That's "SHADYGRADY". See post #190, at thr top of this page.

[Lead]

There is no easy way to sort either a magnet can be tricky

[Bentracin]

Good to know! I will be picking up mine from a local tire shop and will have to sort them so this give me a decent way to ID all of those pesky buggers.

[victor3ranger]

Guys, can anyone tell me how easy it is to smelt Zinc? I have a pile now after sorting them from the lead weights and I am wanting to make a pair of wheel weights for my garden tractor. I don't want to use my lead for this so if possible I would like to use the zinc I have.
Is there anything I should know about melting the zinc compared to lead?
The smelt pot that I use is a older Lyman electric pot if that makes any difference.

[mold maker]

Zinc melts at a higher (750 degrees aprox) temp than lead, and is lighter in weight than lead.
I wouldn't melt zinc in any of my lead pots, for any reason. My advise is take the zinc to a scrap yard where you can swap for lead. The lead is heavier and easier to melt, plus you wont contaminate the Lyman furnace.
What ever you choose, melting any scrap in your Lyman furnace is also a bad idea. Nothing but clean lead or alloy should ever be melted in a boolit furnace.

[victor3ranger]

Well, how about using a cast iron pot to melt the zinc??

[mold maker]

Well, how about using a cast iron pot to melt the zinc??

I have no idea what tolerance the body has for zinc in this form. I know I take a zinc tablet when I feel a cold coming on, but in this form it just might be a No No. I'd hate to mess up a good piece of cast cook ware.

[SciFiJim]

Guys, can anyone tell me how easy it is to smelt Zinc? I have a pile now after sorting them from the lead weights and I am wanting to make a pair of wheel weights for my garden tractor. I don't want to use my lead for this so if possible I would like to use the zinc I have.
Is there anything I should know about melting the zinc compared to lead?
The smelt pot that I use is a older Lyman electric pot if that makes any difference.

Go to the thrift store and get a 3 or 4 quart stainless sauce pan. You can usually get them pretty cheap. Just make sure it is stainless. It will handle the necessary heat better. It can be done on a BBQ side burner but will take a while. Start off with some lead to help get the zinc melted. You will need to create a mold for the weights for your tractor before you start. Zinc shrinks quite a bit when cooling, so be prepared to have a large sprue for the mold to draw from.

[victor3ranger]

Go to the thrift store and get a 3 or 4 quart stainless sauce pan. You can usually get them pretty cheap. Just make sure it is stainless. It will handle the necessary heat better. It can be done on a BBQ side burner but will take a while. Start off with some lead to help get the zinc melted. You will need to create a mold for the weights for your tractor before you start. Zinc shrinks quite a bit when cooling, so be prepared to have a large sprue for the mold to draw from.

Thank you sir

[kaptain kartridge]

The quickest, and fastest way to sort Fe, Zn, and PB weights is a follows:
#1 magnet will pick up steel Fe weights, just touch magnet to weight, not the clip
#2 all the rest of them are touched to grinder or sander to shine a spot on the weight
touch spot with HydroChloric acid ( HCl ) Lead will darken, zinc will foam.
You will need an apron, face shield, and gloves.
A good source of Acid is pool supply house, I bought a gallon for less than $10.00
Using a propane torch, and tin can, the Zinc weights can be melted, and poured into ingots, and sold as scrap @ $0.20/lb, or cast into bullets. They will be lighter, and much harder than lead. I an considering using them in a rifle
Might consider keeping a container of water with washing soda dissolved in it in cast of spilling acid on your self (better safe than sorry)

[badbill2]

Once you score a few thousand wheel weights with a pair of cutters you can be about 99% sure of the difference between lead, steel and zinc. After awhile you don't even have to look at them. Just throw them in your bucket, melt them down and flux till your happy!

[Shooternz]

I've sorted dozens of buckets of wheel-weights and can usually pick out the different metals quite easily if I miss any my smelting pot only runs at 700-725 so the zinc and steel float to the top and are scooped off with the clips and other rubbish, for a quick check I use a clip and scratch a weight with it, with zinc and steel the clip just slides off without leaving a mark if lead it will dig in.

[tjones]

I've sorted dozens of buckets of wheel-weights and can usually pick out the different metals quite easily if I miss any my smelting pot only runs at 700-725 so the zinc and steel float to the top and are scooped off with the clips and other rubbish, for a quick check I use a clip and scratch a weight with it, with zinc and steel the clip just slides off without leaving a mark if lead it will dig in.
Best to sort it as you say. Separating it is a must as it can really mess up your melt. Won't pour, chunky etc etc. you'll wind up throwing it away. -tj

[kaptain kartridge]

I have followed the following method for separating Zinc from Lead weights. Each weight is placed to a grinding wheel to shine a spot on it. They are then swabed with a little Muriatic acid (Hydrochloric Acid) (HCl) which you can buy at pool supply store for about $10/gallon. Lead weights will have no reaction, the zinc ones will foam right away. The only warning, is the acid is strong, it fumes, and a good idea to keep a bottle of water with bi-carb of soda dissolved in it in case of a spill on your self. Aprons, gloves, and a face shield is strongly recommended.

This brings me to my question to all the long time bullet casters...........Can proper rifle bullets be cast from zinc? I have from time to time found zinc .38 wad cuttersa on the backstop cast from zinc. I know they would be lighter, but this could be an advantage ballistically. Would the zinc wipe off on the rifle bore, even with lube? Let me know what you think. I know this question is not a really good one for this forum, but I was just wondering. As lead wheelweights are no longer made, the source will eventually dry up.

[jbunny]

I have followed the following method for separating Zinc from Lead weights. Each weight is placed to a grinding wheel to shine a spot on it. They are then swabed with a little Muriatic acid (Hydrochloric Acid) (HCl) which you can buy at pool supply store for about $10/gallon. Lead weights will have no reaction, the zinc ones will foam right away. The only warning, is the acid is strong, it fumes, and a good idea to keep a bottle of water with bi-carb of soda dissolved in it in case of a spill on your self. Aprons, gloves, and a face shield is strongly recommended.

This brings me to my question to all the long time bullet casters...........Can proper rifle bullets be cast from zinc? I have from time to time found zinc .38 wad cuttersa on the backstop cast from zinc. I know they would be lighter, but this could be an advantage ballistically. Would the zinc wipe off on the rifle bore, even with lube? Let me know what you think. I know this question is not a really good one for this forum, but I was just wondering. As lead wheelweights are no longer made, the source will eventually dry up.
do a search on this forum for casting zinc bullits. also use google casting zinc bullets.

[Smoke4320]

yes they can .. It will be a lighter bullet 30 to 40% lighter IIRC .. Barnes just introduced a zinc core 300 blackout bullet... its 90 grains
as said above there are a couple threads on this forum where people have experimented with zinc casting .. it can be done

[mold maker]

Because of the fear of backlash to comments, lots of unreported zinc experiments are being done.
It's a shame that the most progressive forum on casting boolits, is still so offensive to those who are willing to try something outside the box.
We didn't get to this point of casting, by just doing what our ancestors did.
A very good friend was offended to the point he took his vast knowledge and went elsewhere. He had been successfully experimenting with zinc in alloys and straight. Because what he had to say, was against the grain of conventual casting wisdom, he was soundly condemned.
When we don't listen to what doesn't sound right, just because of that, we lose the benefit of those who do what we thought was impossible.
As the casting world is forced to rethink what we cast with, we had better open our minds and respect those with the guts to try something different.

[62chevy]

Because of the fear of backlash to comments, lots of unreported zinc experiments are being done.
It's a shame that the most progressive forum on casting boolits, is still so offensive to those who are willing to try something outside the box.
We didn't get to this point of casting, by just doing what our ancestors did.
A very good friend was offended to the point he took his vast knowledge and went elsewhere. He had been successfully experimenting with zinc in alloys and straight. Because what he had to say, was against the grain of conventual casting wisdom, he was soundly condemned.
When we don't listen to what doesn't sound right, just because of that, we lose the benefit of those who do what we thought was impossible.
As the casting world is forced to rethink what we cast with, we had better open our minds and respect those with the guts to try something different.


:goodpost::awesome::2_high5:

[Hogtamer]

If anyone's interested you can take a look at "The Zlug Thread" in the shotgun forum. Yes, zinc alloy makes a fine full bore slug, 60% of the weight of lead. Come to your own conclusions. Accuracy testing coming over the next couple of weeks. Warning: A .729 rifle ain't for woosies!

[kaptain kartridge]

Here is what I use to separate Zinc from Lead WWs. Go to your pool (swiming ) supply and buy a gallon of Hydrochloric Acid (AKA Muriatic Acid, HCl, ) Here in NY I paid $9.99. It is concentrated, so use caution when you work with it. (Eye protection, Fan for air, it fumes, an apron, and lastly, a pail of water, with a box of washing soda dissolved in case of a spill on yourself ) Using a grinding wheel polish the end of each wheel weight. then apply the acid ( or dip into acid ) A lead WW will show no difference, but a zinc one will foam the acid. Iron can be separated by the way the clip is attached ( iron WWs have a spot welded clip ) When the bucket is full of zinc WWs, I melt them and cast ito ingots. I think 20 centts a pound as scrap, or if you know a cannon builder

[Hogtamer]

465 gr full bore 12 ga "Zlugs."

[mold maker]

I'd be afraid to use an aluminum mold because of the temps involved. I'd also question the use of my expensive brass molds. That doesn't leave many choices. Am I being too cautious?

[Hogtamer]

Iron is the way to go. Tom @ Accurate made this mold for me. After some ciphering we decided the Zamak 3 alloy I'm using (96% Zinc, 4% alum.) would shrink .006 - .007 and would weigh ~ 60% of COWW alloy. 465 grns of hard metal ain't exactly a wimp load! But much less recoil with a 1600 fps load than = sized lead. May not be practical for small calibers where you need the
weight, but 45 cal & up may make sense depending on what you're looking to accomplish.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=73-770SU-D.png

[karlrudin]

Since I'm sitting with a pure bar of Zinc at my house, this topic interests me. I was lead, no pun intended, that when you melt Zinc it puts off poisonous fumes. Is this myth, fact? I don't trust Wiki totally. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_fume_fever

[Hogtamer]

The galvination process or welding gives off fumes, there is no odor at all that I can detect melting the zinc, nothing at all like the noxious mess smelting down wheel weights.

[kaptain kartridge]

Ferric Wheel weights(iron/steel) can be sorted with a magnet. To seperate Zine from Lead alloy weights, simply file or grind a spot on the weight, and carefully apply a brush with Muriatic Acid (Hydro Cloric/ HCl) the zine will foam as a reaction, and the lead alloy wont. You can get the acid from pool supply fro about $10 per gallon. Be sure to use a face shield, gloves, and apron Might be safer if you keep a gallon of water with a box of soda dissolved into it if you spill on yourself. The reaction to zinc is instant and visible Zn + 2HCl = ZnCl2 + H2.

[Gabby]

Keep in mind fellas that Zinc is what is in galvanizing and is poisonous and can put you in the hospital or the morgue if you breathe the fumes from it. I personally would sort or skim it to get rid of it.
Be careful please. :shock:
Gabby

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_fume_fever

[mold maker]

Avoiding temps over 800 will suffice. For instance, applying a weed burner to the top of the wheel weights is in excess of 4000 degrees.
When the same heat is applied to the bottom of the pot, the pot spreads the heat until absorbed by its contents. Since melting the contents is our aim we don't waste heat much above that. At smelting and casting temps most of the dangers are only from airborn oxide dust, which we can avoid or wear dust mask protection.
Just being clean about it is mostly sufficient. Keeping the oxides out of our mouth and nose is usually enough although there is a possibility that rubbing your eyes can be bad.
Metal contamination is almost totally avoided with common sense and good health habits. Handling freshly melted (shiny) lead ( boolits and ingots) is almost without danger, requiring only washing your hands. I've cast in excess of 50 years without a high (4 from weeks of scraping old paint) blood/lead level.

[DxieLandMan]

Thank you for this post. The part about squeezing them in a pair of pliers is really helpful. My cousin's hubby gives me all the wheel weights that he gets from when he removes tires. I gave him a lot of Zn weights and he gave me Pb and Fe. Glad to know that I can separate them using this method as well as looking for the content (Pb, Zn, Fe).

[TimD]

Thanks to everyone for sharing their wisdom!

I have about 300 pounds of WW stored away since 2010. Shortly after I obtained it I learned of the zinc issue. Then I got busy with family and work and my shooting fell way off. Now I can process it with confidence.

[beltfed]

As has been said, easy to sort out the iron WWs.
For the Zinc, most are actually marked Zn, but,
an easy sorting is done with a razor type utility knife.
Cutting/shaving a sliver out of a lead WW , will cut easily and important: Smoothly.
Cutting a Zn WW, the cutting will be harder and will Obviously Chatter.
It actually goes faster than you might imagine. YOu can take 20 min or half an hour at a time here and there
on a bucket of WW.
I spend time sorting the WW like this rather than have the chance of ruining
a batch of bullet alloy due to Zn contamination.
beltfed/arnie

[Castloader]

Just an update, I recently moved to the South Carolina Lowcountry. The good news is, I have 4 tire shops here that will give me WW for free. The bad news is, that out of an average bucket, about 50% are lead, 35% are steel and 15% are zinc by volume, I didn't bother trying to actually weigh them. I did try smelting the zinc ones separately with a propane blowtorch in a small stainless steel ramekin and here's what I found:

The zinc takes a little longer to melt than lead, but they melt just the same. The zinc melt is more difficult to clean, probably because I don't have anything to flux it with. This was just an experiment, I'm not trying to get into zinc casting or ingot making. If you chop the floating slurry up real good, you can sort of "mechanically flux" the melt. Seems to increase the yield a little. A zinc ingot, poured into another ramekin, is really pretty, brighter than lead. They don't seem to darken as quickly as lead.

As for the fume issue, as long as you don't burn zinc, the fume issue is not really a problem. Welding galvanized steel WILL burn the zinc. Burning zinc gives off a brilliant flame like burning magnesium.

[Vettepilot]

Yeah, and take care not to get the Zinc to that burning temp. I got Zinc poisoning from welding Zinc galvanized steel, twice! (Before I knew better.) It's odd... you don't feel anything at the time, but that night, wow!! Both times I woke up feeling like someone was tightening an iron band around my chest, and every single muscle in my body ached so badly I couldn't hardly stand it.

That was years ago... no long lasting effects that I know of; I was probably lucky.

P.S. Thanks to all for the info in this thread. I had sorted about 40 lbs. of WW and was bummed to find 10 lbs. of what I thought might be Zinc. Instead of tossing them, I set them aside and studied this thread. Now, I think they actually ARE lead, and I know how to test for sure. THANKS!

Vettepilot

[frankmako]

the last three 5 gallon buckets of free wheel weights i got had about 30 % zinc/streel weights in them. not to bad. i have goten some that more than 50%. but free is free and hard to beat. i take a pair of dikes and cut into all weights. don't take long to learn what is what.

[Vettepilot]

Well, the batch that I was sorting I had bought off ebay and was supposed to be all sorted and guaranteed as all lead, but I of course was checking them anyway. The 10 lbs. that were in question are newer looking than the others, and noticeably harder to dent. But I compared them to known Zinc weights, and there's still a big difference; the real Zinc is much, much harder. Maybe the newer WW just have a bit more Antimony in them?

My brother bought some new tires recently, and I sent a bucket along with him to beg for wheel weights. They gave him a zip lock baggie of weights.... every one of them Zinc!!!

Vettepilot

[Dapaki]

Yeah, and take care not to get the Zinc to that burning temp. I got Zinc poisoning from welding Zinc galvanized steel, twice! (Before I knew better.) It's odd... you don't feel anything at the time, but that night, wow!! Both times I woke up feeling like someone was tightening an iron band around my chest, and every single muscle in my body ached so badly I couldn't hardly stand it.

That was years ago... no long lasting effects that I know of; I was probably lucky.

P.S. Thanks to all for the info in this thread. I had sorted about 40 lbs. of WW and was bummed to find 10 lbs. of what I thought might be Zinc. Instead of tossing them, I set them aside and studied this thread. Now, I think they actually ARE lead, and I know how to test for sure. THANKS!

Vettepilot

MAN! I get "galv mouth" way before I can even smell the Zinc when welding. When I melt WW's, I just keep the temp at 700F and skim off the Zinc WW's. They float so it's easy to find them.

[calebflyer]

MC, T, AL & AL-MC are all codes describing the type of clip, and which style of wheel it will work on. Has to do with the shape/size of the clip

[Vettepilot]

I scored about 35 lbs. of WW, and was sorting them just yesterday. I am visiting my brother, and was searching for some side cutters to check the questionable weights when I spotted a hack saw. I decided to give it a try. As it turns out, it works GREAT to check/sort weights!!

The lead ones make no sound, and the hack saw blade digs right in. When you make a quick pass of the blade on a zinc weight, the blade makes a raucous, raspy sound, and the blade doesn't start a cut.

I am getting occasional arthritis flare ups in my hands, and found my new "hacksaw method" easier and faster to check questionable WW than using dykes. Next time, I am going to use just the blade itself, with tape or a rag wrapped around one end to protect my hand. (Less unwieldy than using the whole hacksaw.)

Vettepilot

[Walks]

Was just given COWW's for the 1st time in Years. Only about 10lbs.
So I'm gonna have to go through this process. It'll be a learning experience.
But as always, I find the answers here.

[SciFiJim]

I am getting occasional arthritis flare ups in my hands, and found my new "hacksaw method" easier and faster to check questionable WW than using dykes. Next time, I am going to use just the blade itself, with tape or a rag wrapped around one end to protect my hand. (Less unwieldy than using the whole hacksaw.)

Vettepilot


Try bracing the hacksaw upside down and then drag the WW along the blade. It should get the same results, but you only have to handle the WWs instead of both.

I usually sort sitting on a low stool on the patio. I test the questionable WWs by dragging the end of a WW against the concrete. You quickly learn the sound each kind makes.

[lightman]

I scored about 35 lbs. of WW, and was sorting them just yesterday. I am visiting my brother, and was searching for some side cutters to check the questionable weights when I spotted a hack saw. I decided to give it a try. As it turns out, it works GREAT to check/sort weights!!

The lead ones make no sound, and the hack saw blade digs right in. When you make a quick pass of the blade on a zinc weight, the blade makes a raucous, raspy sound, and the blade doesn't start a cut.

I am getting occasional arthritis flare ups in my hands, and found my new "hacksaw method" easier and faster to check questionable WW than using dykes. Next time, I am going to use just the blade itself, with tape or a rag wrapped around one end to protect my hand. (Less unwieldy than using the whole hacksaw.)

Vettepilot

They make a handle that looks kind of like a knife handle that will hold the saw blade and they are pretty cheap. Maybe a few dollars.

[lightman]

MAN! I get "galv mouth" way before I can even smell the Zinc when welding. When I melt WW's, I just keep the temp at 700F and skim off the Zinc WW's. They float so it's easy to find them.

Sorting vs not sorting has been argued about a lot. I sort mine because I smelt in a pretty large pot and my burner will easily melt any zinc weight that may be trapped on the bottom. A smaller or shallower pot would probably float the zinc weights where my 400# pot will melt some of them.

But it mostly boils down to what works for you.

[lightman]

There may be some good news in all of this. I'm gradually seeing more steel and fewer zinc weights in my scores.

[Vettepilot]

I found some really odd ones that I had never seen before in this last batch. They were all plastic! At first I thought they were lead with a thick plastic coating to protect the wheel. But when I sawed all the way through one, I found it was ALL plastic. Some sort of a composite I suppose... plastic mixed with steel dust perhaps.

Vettepilot

[Vettepilot]

Would cast zinc boolits be hard enough to damage a gun bore?? I am thinking/fearing that sooner or later we are going to have to find a cost friendly sub for lead... :(

Vettepilot

[BigJohnYup]

Those new plastic ones, plastic coated, and zinc made up about 30% by volume of the last 5 gallon bucket of WW that I picked up. They can make a mess real quick if you miss one like I did.

[TyGuy]

If you’re only getting 30% zinc and plastic you’re doing better than most. At my shop I’m lucky if 10% of the bucket is lead.

[BJK]

Would cast zinc boolits be hard enough to damage a gun bore?? I am thinking/fearing that sooner or later we are going to have to find a cost friendly sub for lead... :(

Vettepilot

I remember MANY(!) years ago an article re: making bullets from zinc. I was so young... I remember super high velocity due to the light weight and that they were hard, but I don't remember anything said about bore damage. Steel bullet jackets are used and I doubt that the zinc is harder than soft steel.

I wonder how difficult they'd be to push through a sizer? Would they need lube or coating?

[slide]

There are several videos on youtube about guys making and shooting zinc bullets. Elvis Ammo, Eagle Eye Shooting and some dude called Willie the bullet man.

[Vettepilot]

Yeah, I've seen their videos. I doubt if anyone has enough rounds down range to know about bore wear. (Maybe the government.)

From what I've read, steel jacketed ammo does cut barrel life, approximately in half. I've chosen personally not to use it.

Vettepilot

[Rizzo]

Great!
Zinc bullets mixed in with lead bullets at the range where people "mine" for lead.
Just what casters love.....zinc mixed in with their lead.....NOT!
Grr-rrr.

[Vettepilot]

Yeah, I've had that thought too. When melting down scrap to make ingots, I keep a thermometer going in the pot. Don't let the temp get above about 650/675f. This has saved me grief a couple of times...

Vettepilot

[Castloader]

Zinc casting is a probable future for many who want to stay in the casting business. We just haven’t learned nearly as much about it. It can only screw up the melt if you treat it like lead. I plan to start casting pure zinc soon since I have collected so much. Pure zinc boolits will cause less trouble to those who mine berms than zinc alloy boolits since they will readily float on the melt and be skimmed off. They are also a little less likely to fragment in the berm. Nobody who digs up a berm really knows what he’s getting anyway. How about some bismuth from the guy patterning his shotgun a few lanes over?