New project

[ButlerFord45]

I have posted this in another forum that I've frequented for several years and it was suggested by Tom W. that I post it here as well, so:

I've decided that this winters project is going to be a 6" S&W M19 and cast bullets. I don't need to feel the earth shake when I let the hammer fall but at least some authority.
I'm looking seriously at the Lyman 358429, it's a 170g Keith semi wadcutter.
This project is at the research and procurement phase. I already have a few hundred pounds of wheelweights and 4-5 hundred pounds of plumbing lead on hand. The Mod 19 has been found and the deal is done, just waiting for the funds/pistol swap.
I have located a 4 holer mould but can't find handles. Which brings the first question: Do RCBS handles fit Lyman moulds and if so, is there a particular model I need to look for?
I've learned something else as well! I don't know if it is our new President-Elect or some other reason but new brass is hard to find! I have some 357 and 38+P brass but would like to start with 500 to 1000 pieces of new. I've never tried Starline so I thought I'd give it a try if I can find a source that's not sold out.
I have been a ladle caster for a few years but I think it's time to move on at least into the 20th century, of the Lee, Lyman, RCBS bottom pours, is their any real significant difference worth choosing one over the other?
Though I will slug cylinder throats and barrel, I'm betting sizing to .358 is going to be about right but if not I'll use that size die for other pistols and get the appropriate size die.
I'd like for anyone that would care to, to join in on this project as much as a forum would allow and I always like to show off if it goes well or have somewhere to seek help if it doesn't. I never fail to listen to good advice or suggestions wether I heed them or not. I'm sure I'm going to need a bit of guidance from those of you that have already traveled this particular path.
Second question: What kind of performance can I expect with this bullet? I'm thinking of at or about 1100fps?
From what I can tell so far Lil Gun does this with the lowest chamber pressures. What can you tell me about the actual performance and characteristics of this powder? Would 231 be better, worse or just another powder? Any other suggestions?
From what I can find out this bullet is a bit long but the cylinders in the 19 are long enough to accommodate it?
If 1100fps is doable (in respect to longevity of the gun) it is on the upper end of wheel weight velocity without a little help ie. adding linotype or heat treating?
Number three: I have mostly used homemade lubes and I will admit with some success but I'm tired of that particular mess! I did try some Lyman molylube with some 45 acp's and it worked well as a lube but was soft and messy. Lube recommendations?
Any suggestions before I get any further?
I'm posting this in 3 forums because it is specific to all three-S&W, Casting and Reloading, so Bill, I hope you don't kick me out!
Thanks in advance
BF


Added: I've done a bit of net searching for information on the Lyman 358156 and based on what has been recomended and the lauditory comments that I've read, I believe that this may be the second mould on the list.
I had completley forgotten about Aliant 2400, it was the first powder I used for the 44 mags and came to be the only powder that I used for that cal. but I haven't loaded a 44 in 15-20 years.
I still have some win 296 from another project and I always try to have Win 231 on hand but it's starting to look like that may not be one of the better choices.
I did order brass from Starline today and I think it is the first time that I can remember that the manufacturer was cheaper than their distributers.
Still looking for handles, I guess that I am going to have to get them from Lyman at an additional 10+$. I didn't even find any on eBay!
I've done an inventory of what is in the pantry for what might be appropriate and this is what I have: 231, 296, 2400, Bullseye, Titegroup and Bluedot.
SR4756 has also been highly recomended.
But anyway there she is and I'm looking forward to this.

[mooman76]

BF, Welcome to the board. i won't be much help in your project but wanted to give you a welcome anyway. Allot of people use the Lee 6 cavity handles on RCBS and Lyman moulds. They are inexpensive so you can afford to by several sets if you want. I'm not 100% sure they will fit the 4 cav. Lyman but I would think theywould and am sure someone else will chime in and let you know!

[357maximum]

First a hearty welcome.... second I would offer two reads first

http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=30

and

http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/ST_myfriend357pt2_200811/


and then offer the advice that lube would be hard pressed to beat lars (link at bottom of this page) http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/index.html

carnuba red or BAC is awful hard to beat....I would lean more towards the BAC for this venture going into it with 20/20 hindsight from my own endeavors.


Finally with either the 358156 or 358429 at mag pressures and velocity it will be awful hard to beat 2400 and waterdropped 50/50 alloy ww/pure personally I like remington spark plugs with these loadings.....but it is not that big of deal....



REMEMBER the loads were with OLD 2400 start low and work the load with NEW 2400....I will confess I do not like h110/296 but that is me.

[EDK]

Mr. Obama has helped the bottom line of a lot of gun shops for "black rifles" and other semi-autos and ammo sales. Brass in 357, 45 ACP, etc seems to get scarce when there are military conflicts going on. Reloading components have really jumped up in price over the past couple years.

Gunbroker web site seems to have more brass available. I'd get once fired.

For lubes, see the link at the bottom of the page for Lars white label lubes. They are all good, just a difference in consistency and whether you need a heater for your lubri-sizer. Extremely competitive prices!

Your choice of a model 19 could be argued. The 686 (and other L-frames) are a better choice...designed to take the abuse of a steady diet of full charge 357 magnums. The model 19 allegedly will need some maintenance...other people say it will not. I prefer New Model Ruger single actions and my N-frame Smith & Wessons, but they are larger guns.

The 358429 may have too long a nose to fit in your revolver, loaded in 357 brass. I'd look at 358156 or discontinued 357446. The 358665 CAS boolit is my choice for my needs.

TITEGROUP or HP-38 (231) are my current powders for mid range 357 and 44. I use others for specialized loads.

Good luck and keep us posted on your project and results.

[NoDakJak]

Forty five years ago Elmer Keith provided me with a load that has worked superbly ever since. It was 358429 cast of acww and loaded ahead of 11 grains of 2400 in thirty eight special brass. I fired that load in several dozen revolvers and several rifles and it was accurate in all of them with the exception of a 1894 Marlin. I only cronographed this load once and it was 1,042 fps out of my six inch Colt 357. The burning rate of 2400 has changed so for the past few years I have dropped the load to ten grains and have been very happy with it. I have not had a leading problem with this load. I has worked so well that I no longer cast 358156. Oh yeah! That load has taken several deer with no problem. Neil

[ButlerFord45]

Folks, I thank you for the welcome, your intrest, and time taken to reply! Rest assured your remarks, experience and ideas are weighed heavily. I will read your replys numerous times to make sure I understand and remember your points of view.
EDK, thanks but the only inarguable item in this list IS the 19. It's just a pistol that I wanted and have for a long time, it just never worked out that pistol and funds were available at the same time. This isn't my defensive weapon, comeptitition weapon or hunting weapon. It really is one I just want to play with and I want to play with it with my own cast boolits. :castmine: I'm not looking for max performance (other than accuracy) but then again I don't want just another 38. Not intending to be defensive nor offensive here, just trying to explain better my goals with this pistol.
Thanks for the link to Lars Lube, looks like the BAC may be just the ticket to try along with Veral's Blue.

[454PB]

First, a big welcome to the forum!

I own a 2 1/2" S&W model 19, and also a couple of chronographs. With your longer barrel, 1100 fps. will be no problem. I can get there even with my gun's short barrel.

I personally prefer faster burning powders in all my .357 magnums. HS-6 and Bluedot are my favorites in this caliber.

37 years ago I bought a S&W model 28 and a can of the old Hercules 2400. I immediately had gun tie-up problems with unburned powder getting lodged under the extractor star. I haven't used 2400 since. I hear the new Alliant 2400 is cleaner burning, so it may work fine.

Check back once you're up and shooting, perhaps we can answer more of your questions.

[docone31]

I really like Blue Dot in my .357s, .45ACPs, and 9mm. Stellar with my .38 loads.
I use the start data, and have stayed there.
Clean, good loads, and little fouling.
Good luck, and learn a lot here.
There are some really good folks here.

[missionary5155]

Welcome ButlerFord45 !
I have a Model 19-5 down here with me. It was a 6" but as there is little reason to have a hunting revolver (no critters) and No target shooting beyond 25 yards I wacked mine to 3 1/2 inches. Unique is all I have down here. I shoot the 358429 in a soft lead mix with 6-7 grains of Unique and a lube (homemade) of 50-50 beeswax & bearing grease. This is my car/home defense load and it rides with my on 2 wheels off and on. There are some 4 legged packs out in the hills but they tend to give me wide berth. The laser no longer rides on this revolver but is on a Colt police positive that stays at home.

[exile]

Hope this is not hijacking this thread, I was wondering NoDakJack, with that load of the Lyman 358429 over 10 grains of 2400 in a .38 special case, did you use magnum primers or standards primers with that? Thanks.

exile

[RogerWatsonfromIdaho]

Butler,
Welcome. The new style Lyman 4 cavity handles are the sissors type.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=290391
Lyman Bullet Mold Handles for 4-Cavity Lyman Bullet Molds
Product #: 290391
Our Price: $30.99
Status: Out of Stock, Backorder OK
Date Expected In-Stock: 12/15/2008

The old style Lyman 4 cavity handles are the nut cracker type. I often see them on E-bay.

[Bret4207]

Welcome aboard. Sounds like you're off to a good start. Why switch to a BP when the ladle works so well?