How big is too big

[Ginsing]

Well I slugged my CVA scout v2 in 44 mag today and found it has a relatively tight bore.
It slugged to .4295"
All my molds I have now cast big for my rossi like .433" or bigger. The only sizer I have is .433" NOE push through.
Getting anything in this country is getting damn hard lately and have turned up nothing smaller.
Would shooting a .433 in a .429 bore be a little to much?
Have any of you fellas had any luck with such an oversized bullet?

[mozeppa]

i'd go no more than.4305" in a .429" bore. that's just me

[sigep1764]

As inexpensive as they are, pick up another noe sizer or a press mounted kit from Lee. Then you can size for both. And I'd go 2 thousandths over, so .4315.

[Ginsing]

I'm looking for a lee right now. Dont forget I'm in canada most stuff right now is unavailable in this country. Getting one from NOE would cost me near $60 canadian and take 3 weeks to get here. The last mold I ordered from them took almost a month.
I'm looking, my question is would it be an issue using this oversize bullet

[Winger Ed.]

I'd go ahead and order the right die.
Shooting the big boolits will raise the pressure to one degree or another,
but you may have a accuracy and leading issue too.

[BK7saum]

If a bullet will fit into a fired case (crimp may interfere), I would shoot what you have and see, especially if you are not running top end loads. It may shoot very well with 0.433 bullets. You just need to make sure that your chamber is generous enough that it isn't crimping the bullet into the case. Start low and work up.

You may need to shoot an uncrimped round or two in order to obtain a fired case without a roll crimp. (Sometimes the crimp doesnt iron out upon firing andi interferes with the check of a bullet in a fired case). or you could cast your chamber to verify dimensions.

Brad

[Ginsing]

I do have a handful of commercial cast bullets I forgot about. They are sized at .430, i can load them up and check the case mouths.
One thing this rifle has a long throat I loaded a dummy with a fairly wfn out to 1.715" and didnt touch the rifling.
Hoping I can locate a sizing die

[Green Lizzard]

My 1889 Swiss shoots a .323 bullet through a .300 bore, and it does it accurately.

Bill

[mdi]

If push comes to shove a simple sizing die is easy to make. Use a piece of steel, 1" in diameter is good, about 2"-3" long and drill a 27/64 hole through. (10.8mm drill is closer but probably hard to find). Then hone (or if you can find a 430" reamer, but again, hard to find). Taper one end of the hoe to accept a .440" bullet and use a brass rod to push/pound a bullet through (the first sizing die I had was an old Lee Lube/Size kit and it was just a 3/4" diameter rod with a hole of appropriate diameter in it an a punch). Depending on how hard it is to get a commercial sizing die and how mechanically inclined you are, it is a toss up which is easier; home made or dedicated sizing die... :?

[Gtek]

If you have access to a lathe a bolt with the proper pitch for your press is pretty easy to start with.

[USSR]

Would shooting a .433 in a .429 bore be a little to much?
Have any of you fellas had any luck with such an oversized bullet?

Considering that I shoot .455 bullets in my .45 Colt's .451 barrel, I'd say you will be just fine.

Don

[Oldfeller]

For best accuracy cast and size for the throat diameter of your rifle, the throat's end taper (lead of the rifling) will size your bullets without raising pressure to any discernible degree as this has been happening all along and is reflected in all cast rifle data that you can find.

Read up on folks shooting huge THROAT SIZED slugs in 6.5x55 Swedish Mausers and some even more gargantuan oversized bullets in the 8x56 Hungarian Steyr rifles.

Your pressure issue with cast slugs does not exist, really.

[Ginsing]

Ok that is good news.
This rifle really does seem to have a generous size throat. I'll fire a few of these commercial cast bullets I have and see as well. I am really excited on getting this rifle up and running. I'll report back with some performance results

[Tripplebeards]

I’m sizing .025” over in my marlin 335 35 Rem. I shot two three groups with my cast boolits out of it at 100 yards that measured .250”! All you can do is try. Your results will give you the answer. My guess at .035” over as you measured will probably work just fine. If not try to get a lee sizing die.

[mdi]

I’m sizing .025” over in my marlin 335 35 Rem. I shot two three groups with my cast boolits out of it at 100 yards that measured .250”! All you can do is try. Your results will give you the answer. My guess at .035” over as you measured will probably work just fine. If not try to get a lee sizing die.

Misplaced zero perhaps? Twenty five thousandths of an inch over groove diameter seems excessive...

[tmanbuckhunter]

For best accuracy cast and size for the throat diameter of your rifle, the throat's end taper (lead of the rifling) will size your bullets without raising pressure to any discernible degree as this has been happening all along and is reflected in all cast rifle data that you can find.

Read up on folks shooting huge THROAT SIZED slugs in 6.5x55 Swedish Mausers and some even more gargantuan oversized bullets in the 8x56 Hungarian Steyr rifles.

Your pressure issue with cast slugs does not exist, really.
Listen to the advice this man just gave you. Chamber cast, load to size of throat or just slightly smaller.

[uscra112]

For best accuracy cast and size for the throat diameter of your rifle, the throat's end taper (lead of the rifling) will size your bullets without raising pressure to any discernible degree as this has been happening all along and is reflected in all cast rifle data that you can find.

Read up on folks shooting huge THROAT SIZED slugs in 6.5x55 Swedish Mausers and some even more gargantuan oversized bullets in the 8x56 Hungarian Steyr rifles.

Your pressure issue with cast slugs does not exist, really.

Correct. The obsession with sizing for groove diameter is misplaced. This has been known for generations. It's the throat that holds the bullet centrally aligned to the bore prior to firing.

[poppy42]

Wasn’t sure what this thread was about. Kind of scared me a little that’s all I got to say about it.

[303Guy]

I would only be concerned with boolit base edge feathering if it's a plain base and then only if it negatively effects accuracy.

[Oldfeller]

Yep, listen to the old dude --- he has built a lot of bullets over the years and he knows what happens when "oversized" throat sized bullets go through the leade at the start of the rifling.

You get a fully engaged fully rifled lead boolit that is LONGER than what you had originally.

Follow the Mann "putty plug" logic and as the diameter goes down and the pressure swaging (not scraping or "rifling engagement") takes place you get a perfectly centered balanced boolit and a perfect gas seal.

BUT YOU MUST SHOOT EVENLY POWDER COATED BOOLITS WITH NO LUBE GROOVES BEING PRESENT TO COMPRESS OFF CENTER AND THROWING YOUR BOOLIT OUT OF BALANCE !!!!!!

[USSR]

Wasn’t sure what this thread was about. Kind of scared me a little that’s all I got to say about it.

Yeah, know what you mean. My thought was, let her tell you.

Don

[Buzz Krumhunger]

:bigsmyl2:

[Ginsing]

Yeah, know what you mean. My thought was, let her tell you.

Don

It got your attention though didnt it. I wasn't even thinking of that when I started the thread.

[Ginsing]

I did manage to find a .429 sizer that I'm sure I can open up to .431
I'm thinking I should do a chamber cast as well if i can locate some cerrosafe. I have never done a chamber cast on any of my rifles. Is their a good way to do it with something other than cerrosafe?

[Tripplebeards]

Misplaced zero perhaps? Twenty five thousandths of an inch over groove diameter seems excessive...

Yes i did misplace a zero

[nelsonted1]

Considering that I shoot .455 bullets in my .45 Colt's .451 barrel, I'd say you will be just fine.

Don

I shoot the lee 8mm bullet through Brit Enfield sized to .316 with outstanding result.

[uscra112]

Brownell's has Cerrosafe, or you can get it from McMaster-Carr. www.mcmaster.com (If they don't have it, you don't need it.) The other traditional way is molten sulphur, but it's harder to do than Cerrosafe.

Just thinking about it in the cool of the pre-dawn morning here - by far the most accurate handgun I own is a Colt Officer's Model with the 9" barrel. The throats are a .3575+, but the barrel slugs a scant .356". That gun will shoot all six into a hole the size of a quarter at 15 yards, every time, unless I screw up. Apparently all the target models Colt made were like that on purpose, so there's some more support for the idea of letting the barrel do the final sizing of the bullet.

Curiously, (or maybe not), the gun does it's best not with the canonical target load of flush-seated full wadcutters, but rather with a 158 grain semi-wadcutter seated out so it fills the throat. I think that must center the bullet up better, since there's no jump from the case to the throat.

[mdi]

I don't know what materials are available in Canada, but if Cerrosafe is on the "no-no" list you can find it at Roto Metals and Amazon https://www.rotometals.com/chamber-casting-alloy-ingot-aka-low-158-190f/ https://www.amazon.com/Low-Melting-Point-158-190F-Bismuth-Based/dp/B00B1U540Y

[Ginsing]

Managed to find cerrosafe and a .430" sizing die just in case. It's a new lee style that looks like the old hammer through die and you buy an adapter separate. Worth a shot I suppose, also found a used 2 cavity RCBS 44-245 swc mold and a single cavity lyman 429421 that I'll play around with.
I think I'll have all my bases covered to start playing around with this rifle.

[Ginsing]

Got to the range today with that scout.
Loaded up a bunch of 240 gr xtp bullets I had forgot about, loaded them with 19 gr of 2400 powder. Loaded up some of those comercial cast bullets, they are actually .431" and 250 gr.
Loaded them up with 17 and 17.5 gr of 2400.
Man I tell you that rifle has a sweet trigger and is accurate as I need. The j word bullets I was even smacking the 8"×8" 200 yard gong with consistancy. It didnt seem to like the .431" cast bullets however.
3" groups at 50 yards was about the best I could muster.
I did have some loaded up with the 240gr ranch dog sized to .433 from my last range trip.
They shot well, surprisingly well
I only had 6 rounds on me but I put them all into about 2" cluster at 50 yards.
This is with a 1.25-4x scope with a #4 reticle.
I measured the fired case mouths and they seem to be mostly .430 with a few that were .432"
How much spring back on the brass can be expected?
Does this indicate that I shouldnt try any more .433 bullets?

[uscra112]

I'd say definitely not. Your cast bullets should be a drag fit into a fired case. A .433 bullet is going to expand the neck enough that it may be an interference fit in the chamber neck. High pressure thus possible.

[Ginsing]

Ok that's kind of what I figured. I just wasn't sure how much spring back the brass would get. If say it expanded to .433" than spring back to .431"
I would assume there will be some or the brass would be far more difficult to eject if it was still expanded to the chamber walls.