Hunting Bullets Gould vs 457193

[northmn]

I shot a deer with the Gould bullet and had very impressive results. However many experienced shooters claim they may not be so good on the larger deer as they can flatten out and not penetrate. Lots say to use the 420 grain Lyman 193 with its flat nose. (I have both molds) Looking for some feed back on which to cast and load. I would think that alloys would control the expansion of the 322 HP. I also made a smaller cavity pin for mine, but still am curious as to whether to just use the easier to cast 193 bullet? I am a deer hunter and dream of elk hunting but will not be doing so anythime in the near future. I have been using a 30-30 Marlin cowboy with cast bullets with very good results (with smokeless)

Northmn

[StrawHat]

I shot a deer with the Gould bullet and had very impressive results. Northmn

I like the Gould and cast mine from either 20-1 or softer alloy. At black powder velocities it is great.

How fast do you plan to push it? That will determine how ward you want it. I find the old ballistics work well for me so I don't speed it up any. Also, I don't own a chrongraph so I would not know if they were going faster or not if I used the smokeless stuff.

I have also used a solid bullet for hunting, don't recall which mold, but do know that once I used the Gould I have not switched back to solid.

If I can find the article by Ken Waters I will get it to you so you can read what he had to say about the 457122.

[northmn]

I like to shoot BP in my 45-70. I got the deer with a BP load at 1390 fps. One of the individuals that claimed too much flattening with the Gould admitted pushing it with smokeless at over 1700. Mike Venturino wrote a glowing column about it being the best deer bullet and later claimed it may not be good for big deer. Didn't claim any failures.

Northmn

[beagle]

Take a look at castpics/articles by member/The 457122.

I did a lot of experimenting with 3 or 4 457122s for that article. I plugged the cavity to make solids and I also used a 457192HP and plugged the cavity on it.

At one time, I compared the results out of a Marlin .45/70 between the 457193 and 457193. In the Marlin, the 457192 surpassed the 193 in accuracy. IT may have been the load or seating depth that I was using but that was how it panned out.

You may be able to make a simple "plug" and cast "solids" from your 457122 and get the desired results without going to another mould. I'd try that.

At one time or another, I have read that both Paul Matthews and Paco Kelly both said that 350 grains was the optimum weight for hunting with a .45/70.

Now, I'm a paper puncher but I respect the opinion of both these guys./beagle

[Curtis44]

northmn, I have shot quite a few deer with the gould at velocities from 1200 to 1700 fs with outstanding results. One buck was shot on the point of the shoulder and the bullet was recovered under the skin on the opposite ham! The hollow pointed portion was gone, but the rear 1/2 penetrated like a nozler partition. I have also sht seberal with the lyman 457193 (420 g) and while the deer all expired, the Gould was superior IMO. Maybe on rear quartering shots on elk the 193 would be superior, but I would not hesitate to bust one with the Gould if a decent shot presented itself.

[Mike Venturino]

I participated in a depredation deer hunt in Texas on those small whitetails with several other fellows. We were all shooting .45-70s with bp. The Gould HP did great there.

Later here in Montana I shot a fairly large mule deer with it and didn't get through and through penetration. I think up here I'd favor 457193.

[StrawHat]

I participated in a depredation deer hunt in Texas on those small whitetails with several other fellows. We were all shooting .45-70s with bp. The Gould HP did great there.

Later here in Montana I shot a fairly large mule deer with it and didn't get through and through penetration. I think up here I'd favor 457193.

Mike,

What alloy were you using? Was it a BP load? I am not sure how hard it can be cast and still expand but at 20-1 it still holds up well.

[Mike Venturino]

straw Hat: Yes they were bp loads from Shiloh Sharps .45-70s. On that one mule deer the nose fragmented and the base was under the skin on the off side. All shots on those little Texas whitetails were through and through. Alloy was foundry certified 1-20 tin to lead.

One shot on one mule deer isn't enough to make a big deal about but since the buck was laying down with his head up when I found him and had never leaked a drop of blood I decided to go to something with a little more penetration.

[StrawHat]

straw Hat: Yes they were bp loads from Shiloh Sharps .45-70s. On that one mule deer the nose fragmented and the base was under the skin on the off side. All shots on those little Texas whitetails were through and through. Alloy was foundry certified 1-20 tin to lead.

One shot on one mule deer isn't enough to make a big deal about but since the buck was laying down with his head up when I found him and had never leaked a drop of blood I decided to go to something with a little more penetration.

It behaved like a partition bullet, not bad. I agree, one shot does not make a study. Given no blood trail though you are better off with a different bullet. Gould was an easterner, I don't know if he ever hunted out west. His writing was a bit before my time.

[NickSS]

I have used both bullets and have determined to my satisfation that the Gould bullet works really well on white tail and black tail deer. I also use the 457193 bullet for elk and mule deer as I think I need a bit more penetration for those animal. I cast my deer bullets from 20-1 aloy and the 457193 from 30-1 aloy. Works for me.

[northmn]

I thought I read somewhere that the Goulds were often cast 1-16. I do not remember if it was for factory loads or what. Hair is white and CRS. Also there are some fair sized whitetails in the midwest that hit over 200 lbs with some field dressing at 200. what impressed me on the deer I shot with the Gould was that it was a little far back and hit the liver. Found the deer very quickly, dead, where often you find them with their head up. As said, one deer does not make a study and I did want a little more input. Just traded for a Pedersoli Rolling Block, had an H&R Buffalo. Thankyou.

Northmn