What is acceptable???

[krag35]

I bought a Remington 870 "home defender' shotgun in honor of our new president elect. I have put together a "buckshot" load using .311 Round balls that keep 13 out of 15 pellets in an 18' X 24" target at 20 Yds. Is this acceptable?

I have some 7/8 oz Lee key drive slugs ( cast out out "pure lead") Today I tried 38.0 gr of blue dot out of it's 18" cyl bbl. 5 shots stayed inside what i could cover with the palm of my hand at 50 yds. I thought not to bad, for using a bead for a sight, but I have nothing to compare it to. Is this acceptable?

I am just getting into the shotgun thing ( if it's birds, I'm taking my SXS ) I have no baseline to compare my smooth bored slug gun load to. Nor what is expected of a buckshot load.

Any info would be appreciated.

[DLCTEX]

Acceptable? I'd consider it excellent given the perameters.

[DLCTEX]

Buffering may tighten the buckshot loads. I cast WW balls for buck.

[fallout4x4]

I ........ keep 13 out of 15 pellets in an 18' X 24" target at 20 Yds. Is this acceptable?


Thats close enough to the size of a torso to work, sure. The thing I would mention is to measure what your maximum distance is really going to be. For an example, I live in an apartment and 20 feet is pushing the distance and from the front door to the first corner is under 10 feet. (which is where a confrontation is most likely to take place) Whats the spread at (insert your estimate here) going to be?

[longbow]

Can't say much about the buckshot as I haven't done much with buckshot but your slug load is pretty good. Sounds like you're in the 4" to 6" group size which isn't bad at 50 yards for the first time out with a new load and only a bead front sight.

The best accuracy I have gotten so far with a rifle sighted smoothbore slug barrel on my Browning BPS is 2" at 50 yards.

Longbow

[Bill*]

Since you mentioned "Home Defender" I see it as a 1' circle at 10' kinda situation. I don't know many people with a 20 yard (60') room in their house

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Sounds to me you ruined all aspects to experimentation by getting Good loads the first time around.
I have a box of military 00 Buck here and it will do about the same as your buck load. My round ball loads are no better on a GREAT day than what you have now. My tool is a Mossy with a 18 " and homemade front blade with reference line on the reciever. I cannot imagine shooting more than 50 feet in a protection senerio.

[DanOH]

I've never loaded buckshot before.
I have a Mec junior...do you cycle that buckshot through the charge bar or
use some other method? What about powder charges...do you use same
amount as for a wad with smaller shot?

[krag35]

I didn't get totally away without experimenting some. I pulled the buckshot load form Lyman's 3rd.

Federal hull
32.0 gr HS-6
Fed 209
WWAA12R wad
16 pcs #1 buck

I used Win 209 primers, and that 16th pellet would not fit, so I dropped it to 15 pellets. #1 buck is .300 and I used .311 RB (water dropped WW) I figured Buffer would help, so I added 1.3cc and vibrated it down. buffer would leak out of the crimp, so I put an 1/8" cork wad on top and gave it a good crimp. the first shot opened the action for me, and the second froze it shut. I guess randomly adding buffer isn't such a good idea like they warn about.

The next time out, I dropped the charge to 28.0 gr of Win 540 (same as HS-6) and 1.3cc of buffer. It worked fine in my shotgun, but froze my Son's 870 up.

This time around, I dropped the buffer and it functioned fine in both shotguns with NO indication of high pressure, and the results I posted above.

I know 20 yards is beyond extreme for self defense, if it preforms at 60' it will preform at 10'.

I have been following the 7/8 oz slug testing on this forum (adam604) and basically stole his recipe. I didn't have any hard card wads, so I left them out. I didn't have any COW, so I left it out. the store didn't have any federal 12S4 wads, so I substituted Federal 12S3 wads. since the column wasn't tall enough for a good crimp, I put two 1/8" cork wad on top and it crimped fine.

I am using a MEC Junior, and I don't think that buckshot would work through the charge bar. I size/deprime, Prime, throw the powder charge through my powder measure, insert the wad, drop in 15 shot (5 layers of 3) add the cork wad and crimp.

Looks like my load development is done, except for some penetration testing. I pray I never have to use the buckshot loads, and now I can put if for some of those suburban "shotgun only" hunting tags.

Thanks

[Adam604]

Krag35,

I'm happy to see someone else is also seeing good results with Lee 7/8 oz slugs over 38 grains of Blue Dot.

Thanks for the load credit, but I really just put the pieces together after reading all of the slug loading info that the folks on this site so freely share.

My initial loads did use Federal 12S3 wads, but from info on this site indicated that the 12S4 wads are a bit stiffer in the cushion.

The grouping that you are getting was about the same as me before I started to use a scope, At 50 yards the front bead totally covers the target center.. At 100 yards, almost the whole target.

Were you shooting from a bench or was that hand held?

Adam604

[Jim]

..... 13 out of 15 pellets in an 18' X 24" target at 20 Yds. Is this acceptable?
Over the years, I've taken 3 in-home self defense coarses and got certified to teach it. Everything I've been told about range is that "house range" is 6 to 20 feet because most houses don't have a hallway or great room much longer than that.
Believe me, at 20 feet or less, it don't matter WHAT kind of pattern you're shooting. If you're "in the box", there'a gonna be a mell of a hess to clean up.

[BlackRifleShooter]

I think the general rule of thumb is 1in of pattern spread per 1 yard of distance. 12 inch pattern at 12 yards. This is why shotguns are very close distance weapons.


I have been very dissapointed using buckshot on deer. I once shot at a grazing doe at about 45 yards with a 28" in full choked rem 870 with 00 buckshot. She raised her head at the shot flinched her side as if bitten by a horse fly and went back to grazing! I fired again and she ran away, leaving no indication of having been injured.

[longbow]

I have pretty limited experience with buckshot but I'd say 45 yards is pushing it for deer ~ at least for a 2 3/4" load. I did a little testing a few years ago and found patterns got real thin real fast with 00 buck.

I shot a spike buck many years ago with my Pedersoli side by 12 ga. with a load of 12 pellets of 00 buck but range was 25 to maybe 30 yards. I dug 9 out of the 12 pellets out of the buck. He was pretty well perforated through the lungs and with a broken and leg but he barely even stumbled when he was hit. He ran about 100 yards then piled up.

I would have thought that many pellets would have put him down quicker but even at that range the shot spread was pretty big. I guess a little leaking from a lot of holes isn't as immediatley traumatizing as a lot of damage and leakage from one big hole.

Longbow

[fallout4x4]

I can't imagine using buckshot on deer. And I would have to look but I think it wouldn't be legal in my state anyways. Wouldn't a slug or tri-ball be more appropriate for shotgunning deer?

[missionary5155]

Set an old pumpkin out at 20 yards and let it have a load... that will tell ya a bunch... Keep moving pumpins further out till you can no longer smash-em.. that is your max range.

[DLCTEX]

There have been trainloads of deer killed with buckshot. In some areas that's all that was legal. That said, it's not what I would choose if I had a choice. Slugs, if I can't use a rifle. For bad guy intruders, a belly full of buckshot at in- house range will take the fight right out of them and allows for a little "wobble" room in aiming. I don't think any loader will dependably drop buckshot loads, maybe, but I drop them in by hand as I count them, and yes, buffers can raise pressure so work up loads carefully. Any component change can do the same, even wad type changes. I fire into water to see how the pattern spreads, then put up paper if I really need to examine it. Shot ricochets off water! So use caution.

[Hardcast416taylor]

If you want versatilaty try staggering the loads. First shot buckshot, second shot slug, third shot buckshot, fourth shot slug and so on. An old deer hunters trick for beating a swamp or swale patch. Buckshot for up close, then slug for running away shot at distance. [smilie=1: Robert P.S. Williams Gun Sight store in Davision Mich. sold 36 AR-15`s in 2 weeks after the election. They have never seen such brisk semi-auto handgun sales. :Fire:

[bobk]

At house ranges, any shot should work. I put the fear in my wife's younger brother many years ago by showing him the terminal effect of #6 shot at maybe 20 feet. I wanted to impress upon him the importance of always being aware of where the muzzle is pointed. Stood up a 4X4, hit it with the shotgun. Almost cut it in half. I suspect any shot load would be effective at these distances. I wouldn't be adverse to a nice semiauto 20. Good repeat shot capability, light, can be used onehanded. This ain't a precision scenario.
Bob K

[big boar]

While I don't like the idea of using Buckshot I think it does have its place. While doing a drive I like the fact that if you miss, the shot won't travel to the next farm. I'd shoot at a 8-10" target at 20 yds and keep stepping back till I could keep at least 4 pellets in the target. That would be the max distance the load would be good for in my opinion. A friend of mine, Al, took a deer at about 50 yds and only 1 pellet hit the femoral artery killing the deer. Even he said he shouldn't have taken the shot and was very lucky the deer expired. A lot of people critisize using buckshot but I think if it is used within its range capabilities it makes a lot of sense for safety reasons.

[35remington]

Krag35, the buffer, when combined with the short W12R red shotcup, is a bad idea because some of the unprotected buffer not contained by the wad tends to "grab" the shell sides under firing compression, greatly increase the friction, and generally hike pressures.

Better to use a full length shotcup. A milder primer like the Federal 209A helps too. Combining the buffer with a dusting of motor mica in the wad area on the often roughened shell interior to increase slippage helps too.

It's still best to use published loads, but those for buffer are few and far between.

[BlackRifleShooter]

At house ranges, any shot should work. I put the fear in my wife's younger brother many years ago by showing him the terminal effect of #6 shot at maybe 20 feet. I wanted to impress upon him the importance of always being aware of where the muzzle is pointed. Stood up a 4X4, hit it with the shotgun. Almost cut it in half. I suspect any shot load would be effective at these distances. I wouldn't be adverse to a nice semiauto 20. Good repeat shot capability, light, can be used onehanded. This ain't a precision scenario.
Bob K

The idea of using bird shot for home deffense has been touted for many years. I can remember Dad telling me the shot is tight at that range, that it hits lacts like a slug. My own experience and results I have studied tells me a different story. Bird Shot at any distance acts like a frangible round. While they may and do work in some situations they are not ideal for self deffense. They do not acheive deep enough penetration on a regular enough basis. I have seen enough photos of ER shotgun GSWs to know that more often than not, even at room distance a 12 ga with bird shot will make a very very nasty looking flesh wound. However that is all that it is, a flesh wound. Generally bird shot will not penetrate deeper than 4 -5 inches. This does not meet the FBI standard for penetration..... which they spent billions of our dollars to determine what the best depth of penetration is for Self Deffense shootings, IE kill the bad guy but not the 12 little kids across the hall.

I personally have killed more than a couple middle and upper midsized game animals with bird shot... in my younger days. It can work, but is not the best tool for the job. You should not use a pellet size smaller than what you would consider an adequate pistol caliber, this is my personal opinion. I only buy 00 Buck. I think this .36 caliber?

Honestly the 12 Boomer is in the back of the gun safe my personal go to gun for a home deffense situation is my AR15. Something else Dad told me that I still agree with him on is, "If you have to fight, hit the other guy first, hit him harder, hit him more often and hit him until he stays down." :Fire: A carbine gives you all of those abilities, more accurate, more powerful, and more flexible. Also penetrates soft armor whish can be an important thing in todays violent home invasions.

[Heavy lead]

My house gun is a Benelli Nova, 3 shot extension (holds 7 total). Don't keep one in the chamber, only the mag filled. Deer season it's filled with slugs, Turkey season it's filled with #4's. Wouldn't want to get hit with either even at 30 yards. I really like the Nova, especially the magazine cutoff button in the slide. In reality I don't think it matters what you use, whether it be a shotgun, rifle, handgun, ball bat, Estwing or what have you. Only situation I was ever in I got out with a framing hammer, didn't even need to use it, just show it.

[BlackRifleShooter]

My house gun is a Benelli Nova, 3 shot extension (holds 7 total). Don't keep one in the chamber, only the mag filled. Deer season it's filled with slugs, Turkey season it's filled with #4's. Wouldn't want to get hit with either even at 30 yards. I really like the Nova, especially the magazine cutoff button in the slide. In reality I don't think it matters what you use, whether it be a shotgun, rifle, handgun, ball bat, Estwing or what have you. Only situation I was ever in I got out with a framing hammer, didn't even need to use it, just show it.

My 12 ga is a Nova Tactical I have not got the magazine extension yet. I dont know that I like it better than an 870, it deffinately kicks harder.

It's a wonderful lucky thing that the situation you got into was not serious enough you had to go Midevil on your antagonist. I also would not like to get shot with #4 Buck.... I do not like to get shot with an airsoft gun...... I also do not like to sit in my house with the room tempture above 73 degrees. However when one chooses a weapon and chooses to use said weapon to defend them and theirs. That weapon should be the most effective that is safely possible. If you have to escalate force it is not wise to threaten violence. I have always been of the opinion that you don't touch the gun until you are prepared to pull it, you don't pull the gun until you are prepared to use it and you dont use the gun until you are prepared to kill with it. Reality is that there are real curly wolves that roam amongst us, not back alley currs that run at the sight of force, but truly evil men. Men that will kill you and your entire family for the contents of you wallet and think no more of it than you or me hitting a few bugs in the car on the way to work. These people are the reason you need a gun to defend yourself and if the day happens you cross paths with true evil, you will not wish your gun to be loaded with anything less than the most powerful ammo you can fit into it.

[ovendoctor]

I've never loaded buckshot before.
I have a Mec junior...do you cycle that buckshot through the charge bar or
use some other method? What about powder charges...do you use same
amount as for a wad with smaller shot?

follow your reloading manual for the components needed for a given load

as for shot hand load the pellets one at a time then run it threw the crimp die

Doc.:drinks: