The cast .223/5.56 for AR load data compilation thread

[guy_with_boolits]

As many others, I am trying to compile as much load data I can from people reports of loads for .223/5.56 intended for AR, and I will post it in this thread as I get more and more info.

I've PM'd some folks I've noticed posted that they had interesting results but didn't include all the details, hopefully they chime in here and share the goodies!

Both empirical/actually tried, and theoretical (based on some kind of logic) data will be compiled.

Please if you have experiencing casting for the AR in .223/5.56, post your data! Make sure to fill out as many of the following as you can! The data variables are:

Report type: Empirical / Theoretical
Barrel twist:
Barrel length:
Gas system length:
Powder type:
Powder mass:
Bullet mold:
Bullet mass:
fps:
Alloy: (COWW, lino, soft, etc..)
BHN of alloy:
Powder coated: (indicate coating type and method used)
Lube: (if any)
Gas checks: (material and brand)
Barrel leading: (none, some, bad, etc.., unknown, etc.., # of rounds)
Gas system leading: (none, some, bad, unknown, etc.., # of rounds)
Action: (hold open on empty, short stroke, etc..)
Accuracy:
Notes: (sized after PC, cast during full moon, etc..)
Link: (if there is a link to something relevant about this report)

You can copy and paste that list so its easier to fill in.

Heres what I have so far (I'll update the spreadsheet with new entries periodically and add it here as an attachment somehow)

Clickable links to entries:

Entry Link
1 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?354086-My-quest-for-the-quot-perfect-quot-cast-223-load-for-my-AR-15&p=4283358&viewfull=1#post4283358
2 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?354086-My-quest-for-the-quot-perfect-quot-cast-223-load-for-my-AR-15&p=4283358&viewfull=1#post4283358
3 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?354086-My-quest-for-the-quot-perfect-quot-cast-223-load-for-my-AR-15&p=4283976&viewfull=1#post4283976
4 ?
5 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?354086-My-quest-for-the-quot-perfect-quot-cast-223-load-for-my-AR-15&p=4288635&viewfull=1#post4288635
6 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?404946-5-56&p=4938066&viewfull=1#post4938066
7 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?404946-5-56&p=4938109&viewfull=1#post4938109
8 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?356410-Cast-bullets-in-AR-15&p=4312804&viewfull=1#post4312804
9 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?356410-Cast-bullets-in-AR-15&p=4312804&viewfull=1#post4312804
10 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?356410-Cast-bullets-in-AR-15&p=4312804&viewfull=1#post4312804
11 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?356410-Cast-bullets-in-AR-15&p=4312804&viewfull=1#post4312804
12 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?405422-The-cast-223-5-56-for-AR-load-data-compilation-thread&p=4944449&viewfull=1#post4944449
13 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?405422-The-cast-223-5-56-for-AR-load-data-compilation-thread&p=4946633&viewfull=1#post4946633
14 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?405422-The-cast-223-5-56-for-AR-load-data-compilation-thread&p=4946633&viewfull=1#post4946633
15 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?405422-The-cast-223-5-56-for-AR-load-data-compilation-thread&p=4946633&viewfull=1#post4946633
16 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?405422-The-cast-223-5-56-for-AR-load-data-compilation-thread&p=4946697&viewfull=1#post4946697
17 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?405422-The-cast-223-5-56-for-AR-load-data-compilation-thread&p=4947560&viewfull=1#post4947560
18 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?405422-The-cast-223-5-56-for-AR-load-data-compilation-thread&p=4947560&viewfull=1#post4947560
19 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?368459-223-cast-bullets-w-ar15&p=4743318&viewfull=1#post4743318


May have to zoom in to see it:

Link to full size image -->https://i.postimg.cc/xTD87Q6Y/Untitled.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/xTD87Q6Y/Untitled.jpg

[guy_with_boolits]

From Conditor22:

Report type: Empirical
Barrel twist: 1:10 (mini 14)
Barrel length: ?
Gas system length: ?
Powder type: Varget
Powder mass: 21.5gn
Bullet mold: LEE C225-55-RF
Bullet mass: 55gn
fps: ?
Alloy: ?
BHN of alloy: ?
Powder coated: yes (type unk)
Lube: no?
Gas checks: yes (material unk)
Barrel leading: ?
Gas system leading: ?
Action: ?
Accuracy: 7/8" group at 150ft
Notes: sized to .224
Link: n/a

[guy_with_boolits]

updated with several juicy entries from a single link (that fouling shot article)

[sureYnot]

Report type: Empirical
Barrel twist: 1:7
Barrel length: 16
Gas system length: carbine
Powder type: IMR 4895
Powder mass: 24
Bullet mold: RMR jacketed
Bullet mass:55
fps: unknown
Accuracy: minute of squirrel head at 50 yds

Report type: Empirical
Barrel twist: 1:7
Barrel length:16
Gas system length: carbine
Powder type: IMR 4895
Powder mass: 18
Bullet mold: LEE C225-55-RF
Bullet mass: 55 gn
fps: unknown
Alloy: coww
BHN of alloy:
Powder coated: harbor freight red, shake n bake
Gas checks: gas check boolit w/o gas check
Barrel leading: none. except for the first time when i didn't bake it enough and had glorious silver solder in the flash supressor and had to scrub the barrel all night.
Accuracy: minute of squirrel head at 25 yds
Notes: less powder = no bolt function. more = no accuracy. Very small window between bolt function and accuracy.

Report type: Empirical
Barrel twist: 1:7
Barrel length: 16
Gas system length: carbine
Powder type: H335
Powder mass: 18.3
Bullet mold: 225-61 Grain "Elvis"
Bullet mass: 62 gn
fps: unknown
Alloy: 1/2 coww - 1/2 range scrap
BHN of alloy: unknown
Powder coated: smoke's powder (rwb promo from 2019)
Gas checks: PB design
Barrel leading: none
Gas system leading: none
Action: good function
Accuracy: minute of squirrel head at 50 yds
Notes: size after PC. NOE expander made all the difference in the world. Was water quenching to get hardness and not be swaged down by the brass. With the expander, I can shoot hard or soft (no difference). I think it comes down to a straight start when seating.

[36Power]

Report type: I was there
Barrel twist: 1/9
Barrel length: 20"
Gas system length: dunno
Powder type: VV N133
Powder mass:28.3 gr
Bullet mold: Custom cut spitzer, smooth sides(NLG), undersized (.210)
Bullet mass:56 gr as cast, 63 as completed
fps: avg. 3032
Alloy: obscenely hard (WW/Lino/pure/Copper/Tin) water dropped
BHN of alloy: somewhere near 30
Powder coated: No
Lube: No
Gas checks: No
Barrel leading: None
Gas system leading: None
Action: works like always
Accuracy: 3" groups at 108 yrds...still working on it.
Notes: Cast undersized, copper plated up to .225-.226, sized to .224. Loaded to factory FMJ load data, so far just for Varget, VV N530, and VV N133.

[guy_with_boolits]

(3 reports)


updated spreadsheet! please confirm

also the mold you used for #2 was a C225-55-RF not C224-55-RF right?

can you comment on any of the ?'s just in case you remember a little more?

I like the sound of your third one, seems like a success

[kenblacksmith]

Check out Hodgdons data for Trailboss, 1000fps on 55gr., seems like a cool CB load.

[guy_with_boolits]

fps: avg. 3032


wow 3032!! updated...any link to your cu plating rig?

[guy_with_boolits]

Cast undersized, copper plated up to .225-.226, sized to .224. Loaded to factory FMJ load data, so far just for Varget, VV N530, and VV N133.

is your report consistent for each of those powders? (in other words can I just add all three powders to the single powder cell on the single report or should they have separate entries?)

[guy_with_boolits]

Check out Hodgdons data for Trailboss, 1000fps on 55gr., seems like a cool CB load.

that is a cool load but I dont think its even trying to cycle an AR right?

https://i.postimg.cc/fRknYvw0/hodgong.png

[guy_with_boolits]

btw people feel free to post links to posts that have good data..I dont mind going there and extracting the info for the table myself if you are feeling like its beer oclock

[guy_with_boolits]

should I add a COAL column?

[Dieselhorses]

should I add a COAL column?

You can but all chambers aren't created equal. If we knew the manufacturer/model then COAL would be be handy.

[36Power]

wow 3032!! updated...any link to your cu plating rig?

There are a couple of threads here with pics...check out the coatings forum.

[Dimner]

Thank you very much for putting this together. I am going down the road of a cast bullet AR build.

[36Power]

is your report consistent for each of those powders? (in other words can I just add all three powders to the single powder cell on the single report or should they have separate entries?)

No, that's just for N133. N530 performs just as well but the data in the post was only N133. Never can get Varget to work very well :)

I haven't really done any ladder development yet. N133 is a fantastic powder in basically everything I load for 5.56 so I suspect the groups will improve as I work on that.

[Dimner]

You can but all chambers aren't created equal. If we knew the manufacturer/model then COAL would be be handy.

Thats a good point.

We are going to be dealing with

223 Rem
5.56
and 223 Wylde.

So it might be good to add that as a column if you think that will effect things.

[kenblacksmith]

Not sure, but Trailboss makes pressure in a hurry from my experience.

[guy_with_boolits]

seems like some good datapoints here http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?405139-Optimal-calibers-for-cast-AR-ahooting&p=4946407&viewfull=1#post4946407

but I'm not sure how to parse it and its missing a bunch of details

"The Mini 14 loves the NOE 225-62 RN designed plain based and powder coated. I use IMR 4227 which runs all of my AR 15s and the Mini 14. I do have a gas check mold (Lyman 225-415 RF) and even a set of dies for making gas checks. The PCd plain base boolits shoot fine so I don't have to mess with the pesky little checks. I was able to get 1 MOA at 100 yards with either boolit design and an average of 2250 fps from the 16" barrels, 2450 fps from a 24" H-BAR 1-12" twist Handi Rifle."

[sureYnot]

updated spreadsheet! please confirm

also the mold you used for #2 was a C225-55-RF not C224-55-RF right?

can you comment on any of the ?'s just in case you remember a little more?

I like the sound of your third one, seems like a success

Yes. 225. Edited my post.

[fcvan]

I was asked, so here goes.

Report type: Empirical
Barrel twist: Ruger 180 Model 16" bbl, 1-10", AR 15, 16" bbl, 1-9" bbl, AR 15 Pistol, 1-7.5", H&R 1871 H-Barrel, 24" 1-12"
Barrel length: See above
Gas system length: Ruger, ~ 9", AR 15 Carbine length and pistol length, H&R single shot.
Powder type: IMR 4227 except for plinkers with Bullseye, not for AR 15
Powder mass: As dense as IMR 4227, Powder measure however was from the Lyman Reloading Manual.
Bullet mold: Lyman 225-415 for gas checks, NOE 225-62 RN, designed for Powder Coating. Both sized to .225 diameter
Bullet mass: Weight for Lyman, 55gr w/gas check and lube or powder coating, NOE is 62 gr w/PC.
fps: 2250 from Ruger, AR15 Carbines, 2450 fps from H&R
Alloy: (COWW, lino, soft, etc..) 50/50 clip-on and pure pb.
BHN of alloy: unknown, can't scratch with fingernail before powder coating.
Powder coated: (indicate coating type and method used) Started with Javalina lube, exclusively PC'd now.
Lube: (if any) Javalina
Gas checks: (material and brand) HOme made, Amerimax aluminum flashing, .08 thickness.
Barrel leading: (none, some, bad, etc.., unknown, etc.., # of rounds) Nada, nil, zip, never happened.
Gas system leading: (none, some, bad, unknown, etc.., # of rounds) Nada, nil, zip, never happened.
Action: (hold open on empty, short stroke, etc..) Full cycling of Ruger and AR 15s.
Accuracy: 1 MOA at 100 yards with Ruger and AR 15 Carbines, pistol was never shot for accuracy beyond banging steel and tin cans out to 100 yards.

The data requested is useful information. Can the AR 15 be shot with cast? Of course but it seems many prefer not to go through the hassle of dealing with the little buggers. I made a jig to ESPC the Lyman boolits so as not to PC the gas check shank. Worked great but took a bit of handling. I had thought of seating the checks and then tumble coating, but that would require seating, cleaning. ASBBPC the boolits and size again. I'm not doing it. I make my own checks but they are a PITA. That's why I ASBBPC the NOE boolit designed without lube grooves just for PC.

I don't physically touch my boolits during casting or during ASBB coating. I pick up/sort the boolits with a metal spoon after they cool somewhat after dropping on a folded towel. I wear rubber gloves when PCing and don't actually touch them until sizing. I have a few experiments I would like to try but I have 10 lbs of PCd Lyman, and about 20 lbs of the NOE cast and PCd. It will be a while before I need to cast again. Besides, my favorite AR 15s are chambered in 9mm so the .223/5.56 weapons have become more of a 'special occasion' type of thing. Shooting cast .223/5.56 is fun and very cost effective and of late, done with the single shot. For 'run and gun drills' (retired, former 'SWAT') and 9mm is even more cost effective. Still, cast in .223 is devastating on tin cans.

[guy_with_boolits]

reminder to process this at some point, looks like a success: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?368459-223-cast-bullets-w-ar15&p=4743318&viewfull=1#post4743318

[guy_with_boolits]

I was asked, so here goes.

Report type: Empirical
Barrel twist: Ruger 180 Model 16" bbl, 1-10", AR 15, 16" bbl, 1-9" bbl, AR 15 Pistol, 1-7.5", H&R 1871 H-Barrel, 24" 1-12"
Barrel length: See above
Gas system length: Ruger, ~ 9", AR 15 Carbine length and pistol length, H&R single shot.
Powder type: IMR 4227 except for plinkers with Bullseye, not for AR 15
Powder mass: As dense as IMR 4227, Powder measure however was from the Lyman Reloading Manual.
Bullet mold: Lyman 225-415 for gas checks, NOE 225-62 RN, designed for Powder Coating. Both sized to .225 diameter
Bullet mass: Weight for Lyman, 55gr w/gas check and lube or powder coating, NOE is 62 gr w/PC.
fps: 2250 from Ruger, AR15 Carbines, 2450 fps from H&R
Alloy: (COWW, lino, soft, etc..) 50/50 clip-on and pure pb.
BHN of alloy: unknown, can't scratch with fingernail before powder coating.
Powder coated: (indicate coating type and method used) Started with Javalina lube, exclusively PC'd now.
Lube: (if any) Javalina
Gas checks: (material and brand) HOme made, Amerimax aluminum flashing, .08 thickness.
Barrel leading: (none, some, bad, etc.., unknown, etc.., # of rounds) Nada, nil, zip, never happened.
Gas system leading: (none, some, bad, unknown, etc.., # of rounds) Nada, nil, zip, never happened.
Action: (hold open on empty, short stroke, etc..) Full cycling of Ruger and AR 15s.
Accuracy: 1 MOA at 100 yards with Ruger and AR 15 Carbines, pistol was never shot for accuracy beyond banging steel and tin cans out to 100 yards.

The data requested is useful information. Can the AR 15 be shot with cast? Of course but it seems many prefer not to go through the hassle of dealing with the little buggers. I made a jig to ESPC the Lyman boolits so as not to PC the gas check shank. Worked great but took a bit of handling. I had thought of seating the checks and then tumble coating, but that would require seating, cleaning. ASBBPC the boolits and size again. I'm not doing it. I make my own checks but they are a PITA. That's why I ASBBPC the NOE boolit designed without lube grooves just for PC.

I don't physically touch my boolits during casting or during ASBB coating. I pick up/sort the boolits with a metal spoon after they cool somewhat after dropping on a folded towel. I wear rubber gloves when PCing and don't actually touch them until sizing. I have a few experiments I would like to try but I have 10 lbs of PCd Lyman, and about 20 lbs of the NOE cast and PCd. It will be a while before I need to cast again. Besides, my favorite AR 15s are chambered in 9mm so the .223/5.56 weapons have become more of a 'special occasion' type of thing. Shooting cast .223/5.56 is fun and very cost effective and of late, done with the single shot. For 'run and gun drills' (retired, former 'SWAT') and 9mm is even more cost effective. Still, cast in .223 is devastating on tin cans.

Interesting, so a few questions:

it seems there was no important difference between the 62gn and 55gn?

what powder coat did you use?

could someone with the lyman manual look up the possible loads so I can enter them?

just to be clear the IMR4227 was the only powder used for the AR15 data right?

[guy_with_boolits]

updated!

[guy_with_boolits]

to be assimilated:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Lee-55gr-Cast-Boolit-Loads-in-AR-15-/42-475736/#i4769996
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?156326-AR-15-500-Round-Cast-Bullet-Test&p=1739549&viewfull=1#post1739549
https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Cast-Bullets-for-the-AR-Pictures-Fixed-/42-268088/

[guy_with_boolits]

note from Smoke4320 (who sells powder coats on here), I was asking about clear vs bacon grease colors from his powders:

"The additives for Bacon Grease hold up better to velocities over 2400 FPS. A good read would be to find BAMA's thread on PC over 2600 fps
he goes into more detail of what he as found
if you are going to be shooting at velocities under 2400 fps all the colors will work just fine"

I bought some of both and some blue!

[guy_with_boolits]

add:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?408958-223-cast-pc-full-house-loads&p=4989246&viewfull=1#post4989246

Report type: Empirical
Barrel twist: 1 in 7
Barrel length: 16
Gas system length: standard system for the 16 inch gun
Powder type: H335
Powder mass: 24gn
Bullet mold: Arsenal 225-61 Elvis but the bullets drop at .220 custom sized so we could get away with sizing them 2 times these now come out right at 56-57 grains after powder coated and sized to .224
Bullet mass: 57
fps: unknown
Alloy: COWW water dropped
BHN of alloy: not sure at this time but i will test them and update
Powder coated: YES
Lube: NO
Gas checks: none flat base mold
Barrel leading: none
Gas system leading: none
Action: good function- locks the bolt back after firing good ejection
Accuracy: 1inch group at 65 yards
Notes: sized after PC to .224