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dubber123
11-29-2008, 08:01 PM
I am trying to find loads for the 50-90 cartridge, using smokeless powder. All I can find involves various Accurate brand powder, which I don't have, or will have to order. I have moulds in 390,400,430,450, 470 and 500 grains. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

oneokie
11-29-2008, 09:21 PM
FWIW, found these two loads on another site. Use at your discretion.

http://www.reloadersnest.com/detail.asp?CaliberID=408&BulletWeight=435&LoadID=11653

http://www.reloadersnest.com/detail.asp?CaliberID=408&BulletWeight=525&LoadID=11652

Bullshop
11-30-2008, 03:31 AM
Might help if you tell us what powder you do have.
BIC/BS

dubber123
11-30-2008, 06:07 AM
Might help if you tell us what powder you do have.
BIC/BS

Well, many of the Accurate powders are hard to get around here, and pretty much none of the Vihtavouri (sp?), or Ramshot brands. Hodgdon, IMR's, Alliant stuff yes. I was thinking one of the 4198's or 4895's would be applicable.

I am thinking given equal or similar boolit weights, Trapdoor loads for 45-70 should be quite safe in the larger 50-90. These will be for a converted SxS shotgun, so I am trying to get a little ahead on loads.

Thanks.

EDK
11-30-2008, 01:58 PM
You might think about getting PUF-LON or some other type of filler. Those 50/90 casings are enormous and you might have ignition and other issues without a filler. I shoot a SHILOH SHARPS 50/90 and did a little looking about smokeless...a gentleman over at BLACK POWDER CARTRIDGE NEWS had tried some loads and thought he might have ringed the chamber. I'd cry if I screwed up my baby!

If you're going to use smokeless powder, why not drop down to a 50/70...and have a little smaller powder capacity.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

Bullshop
11-30-2008, 02:31 PM
EDK is correct in that if you simply substitute with 45/70 data without a filler and even with filler with some powders you can expect squibs, hangfires, and partially ignited misfires. It is not only a matter of larger case volume but also of much greater expansion ratio. Each inch of length the boolit travels down the bore requires a greater volume of gas to keep the pressure up. Powder for the 50 has to produce gas at a faster rate than powder for the 45 to give acceptable results.
You still have not mentioned the powders you have available. You did mention that you cant get the powders for loads offered but if we dont know what you have it may become a long guessing game.
BIC/BS

dubber123
11-30-2008, 03:35 PM
Either of the 4198's, 4895's, can get most all of the Reloader series powders, H-322,H-335, Varget, Imr 4064, both 4350's, both 4831's. I thought it would be easier to list what I don't have/can't get, than the other way round'. I have gotten some loads, that should about fill the case, or with very little filler, but they have no pressure data.

I am trying to as closely emulate a real English double as possible, including the big cases. I have the 50-90 dies and brass also, purchased just for this project. If it works, I will likely do another, in 50-70, just for the simplicity of loading. Thanks guys.

missionary5155
11-30-2008, 04:27 PM
I have a 50-70. A 50-70 has some of the interesting problems that shotshells have... that rapidly changing expansion ratio. Unique ignites easily and burns fast and has some volume to it But I do not know if I would tryit without a tuft of dacron on it to hold it in the rear of the cartridge.
BUT if you want to duplicate an old English double rifle then shoot Black and enjoy the REALITY. It is not all that bad to clean. I shoot 125-130 2F in my FoxB 12 guage with Round Ball. It is no big deal to clean up.

dubber123
11-30-2008, 05:41 PM
If this was a hammer gun, I would be tempted to use BP, to more closely emulate the BP Express rifles. I'm trying more for one of the Nitro-Express rifles, and performance, (within the strength of this action), is important. I don't think I can get the performance I'm hoping for with black powder.

I may have to load some up with BP for the "boom" factor, they sure do sound neat!

Bullshop
11-30-2008, 06:43 PM
OK then of the powders you now have listed and with the boolit weights you have listed I see only one powder that I think is fast enough to handle the large expansion ratio of a 50 cal. and that is the fastest powder you have listed, 4198.
If you have access to the Handloader article on the 50 Alaskan you will see that the Powely computer pegged 4198 as optimum in burn rate for that cartridge at about 2.2" case length.
For the longer case of the 50/90 at 2.5" I felt that a slightly faster powder would be best. My hunting load this year used a 560gn PP with 45gn H 4227 and packing popcorn filler for 1650 fps. Accuracy is excellent and pressures at least for my rifle Win 1885 are moderate. In your rifle a converted shotgun frame I would keep pressures on the shy side of 20,000 psi. I wouldnt expect or even venture near anything like high velocity with that platform. You will be doing good to get 1300 fps with the boolit weights you mentioned. Procede slowely and listen to your rifle, meaning watch for any signs of too much pressure for your rifle. When your velocities begin to become supersonic you are likely very near the safe limits of your rifle.
BIC/BS

FN in MT
11-30-2008, 07:43 PM
I've used the Accurate 5744 with VERY good results in a mess of old BP cartridges. Mike V recommended it years ago in a lengthy article and it works pretty well.

Dubber why don't You add WHERE You reside to your profile. You mentioned that certain powders were tough to get "around here" . You may be surprised that there may be a fellow CB poster closeby.

FN in MT

dubber123
11-30-2008, 10:47 PM
Dan, I do have a couple pounds of H-4227. I will add it to the list, thanks. FN, the Accurate powders are the only pressure tested stuff I can find, with 5744 being at the top of the list. H-4227, and 5744 are #'s 120, and 123 on the burn chart I have coincidentally.

StrawHat
12-01-2008, 01:50 PM
dubber,

Who is doing the conversion for you and what shotgun is being used for the platform?

The gunsmith should provide you with the load to use as he will have to have used some load to regulate the sights.

When V M Starr did a 45-70 for me he provided the load and I have never had to change it.

Many English BP rounds were chambered in hammerless guns so don't let that stop you from trying black powder.

I load for the 50-70 in two single shots but use either black powder or 5477.

dubber123
12-01-2008, 07:18 PM
I have 2 machinists lined up, 1 to turn the blanks, 1 to chamber. I will do the barrel shortening on the shotgun, the regulation and sight installation.

The shotgun is a BRNO, (CZ) 12 ga., and appears to be quite ruggedly built, having 2 large underlugs, and a 3rd upper locking point. It locks up SOLID. It also has the cheekpiece stock, and sling swivels already on it. Add sights and it really looks like a real double rifle.

Oregon_Dan
03-03-2019, 11:27 PM
I too will jump on the bandwagon for 5744 in the 50-90! I have had excellant results with a 550gr bullet in my C. Sharps!