Thank God embarrassment is all I'm suffering

[Patrick L]

Man I did something stupid last night. It just goes to show you, experiece can sometimes breed complacency.

I have had a routine to my casting for years now. At the end of a casting session, I unplug my pots, but leave the vent fan running for 30-45 minutes or so. Then I go downstairs and turn off the fan.

Last night, I unplugged one of my pots, then decided to make just one or two more pours (I like to leave my molds filled between sessions) with the other pot. That little change in the routine did it. I went up stairs, showered, watched a little TV with the wife, and went downstairs and shut the vent fan off. Then we went to bed.

This morning I went to the casting area to snap a picture of the boolits I cast to post on the GB results page. Imagine my suprise (more like horror) when I noticed the second pot still plugged in!! It had run all night, full to the brim of alloy. The only thing that had happened was that the drips had formed a solid pilar from the base to the spout, effectively plugging the drip (20# Lee dripomatic.)

I shudder when I think of what might have happened. Short in wire, buildup of heat in the cabinet, hot drippy lead hitting something it shouldn't, the list of terrible possibilities is endless.

The most frustrating aspect is that I went to such lengths in building my casting cabinet to make it the ultimate in safety and convenience. I have the plexiglass splatter shield. It's self contained, lighted, vented to the outside with an exhaust hood, I even ran a separate heavy duty 20 amp line to it so as not to overtax my home's electrical system. Some of you may recall the extensive threads I ran last fall as I was building it. Here's a few pictures
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Casting%20cabinet/GunStuff038.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Casting%20cabinet/GunStuff005.jpg

I think I may pick up some sort of outlet timer for plugging in the pots. I never cast for more than 2 hours or so, so maybe set a timer to automatically turn things off after three hours. Then again, when I do something that actually scares me, I tend to not make that mistake again!

The lesson here is, guys never stop thinking about what it is we do. I think the more experienced we are, the more so this applies (I'm a 20+ years caster.) It is a very safe hobby, but it only takes one careless second to get hurt!

I know what I'M thankful for this weekend!!

[Pat I.]

Glad nothing bad happened but man that's got to be the cleanest and most organized casting area I've ever seen!!

[DLCTEX]

How about a switch for the recepts for the casting cabinet that shuts down all power when done. Fan could be put on timer so you wouldn't have to go back to shut it off.

[DLCTEX]

I plan for mine to be that organized, someday.

[skeet1]

Pat,
It looks to me that you have another problem. Your far to organized.

Skeet1

[Freightman]

I have been planing organization for 50 years, hope the boys can clean it up when I am gone,

[Doc Highwall]

Freightman, I could bring my trailer and start by taking all the lead and moulds if that would help. Patrick L, I down loaded pictures of your casting area for ideas for when I redo mine, and yes I like organization and yours comes to mind first.

[Junior1942]

You left the gaudy & messy UPC tags on the ducts.

[leadeye]

Good to hear nothing bad happened. Nice setup! I like the idea of having the two pots mounted one above the other. Beats casting off the back of a pickup like I do now, maybe next year when I move from the burbs I can make something like that.

[LeadThrower]

That's a gorgeous setup! Sure beats my "run an extension cord outside" method.

[jdgabbard]

Your lucky. If it had been me, the house would have burned. Thats just my luck.

[Scrounger]

A couple of my favorite stories posted here were written by a poster who hasn't posted anything in a long while. I hope everything is ok with him. The poster's name is Grumble and he lives in the boonies of New Mexico. Seven or eight years ago he posted a story of the time he burned his house down, literally, seems I remember it involved casting bullets and ironing his pants. Tragic thing, but the way he told it, you couldn't keep from laughing. A few years later he followed up with the story of the time he shot himself, another tragic story that he made funny in the way he told it. He managed to shoot himself in the hand and forearm with a CZ52. He lives by himself way out in the boonies and it was a close thing by the time he drove to a neighbor who drove him to the highway where he was picked up and rushed to the hospital. And then after all that the county prosecutor tried to have him charged with a crime for it! If anyone has copies of those posts or links to them in the Archives, I'd love to have them. I did have them for awhile but they were lost in a hard drive crash...

[38 Super Auto]

I'm such a worrier that I always make a trip to the casting area a few hours after I'm done to check the pot and verify that everything is unplugged and has cooled off.

That is a very sweet casting fume management system. [smilie=2:

[Scrounger]

I found Grumble's post on the shooting and if no one objects, I'll post it here. A bit long but well worth reading.



34678: Cast Boolit Penetration 05/16/01-3:59 PM Posted by: grumble I was going to wait until I could look back on this with more humor, but it seems this is as good a time as any to tell my story. The "Hunting Accident" thread makes this as appropriate a time as any. Boolit: Lee mold, cast .358, sized 357, 140 grain WW Lube: Alox and Mica Brass: 9mm Luger Load: 4.6g AA#5, about 800 fps Gun: CZ-52 semiauto pistol, with 9mm (.356 in.) aftermarket barrel I'd been having trouble getting the 9mm rounds to feed through the 7.62x25 action. So, I played with different OALs to see if that would allow reliable feed. After a few rounds, a cartridge stuck, and hung up the action. I mean to say, it really stuck, and I couldn't pull the slide back to clear the jam. Let me back up a little. The CZ-52 is a 1930's vintage handgun, and like a lot of surplus guns, a great value even if not particularly pretty. The safety is a toggle lever, with three positions, "fire," "blocked trigger," and "full;" "full" locks the trigger, raises a pin to lock the firing pin, and drops the hammer. I had previously checked to make sure the safety operated properly. The gun is in like-new condition. Now, back to the jammed gun. Since I couldn't extract the 9mm round by pointing the gun downrange and using my thumb and fingers to pull the slide back, I turned the gun so I could use my right hand to push the slide back. As I grabbed the grip in my left hand and grabbed the slide with my right, I pushed the safety lever to "full." I saw the flash and heard the pop before I felt anything. When I saw the wound, I couldn't believe it -- in fact, I said, "no, it can't be!" But, it in fact WAS. I had just shot myself. I began to believe it when the blood started to gush. The bullet had entered my right palm about in the center, exited at the junction of the wrist and thumb base, then re-entered my forearm two inches above the wrist. I didn't realize it until a couple hours later, but the bullet exited the back of my arm about an inch above the point of the elbow. The palm of my hand was pretty ugly, because the muzzle blast had exploded the skin like a balloon. The blood was mostly coming from the entry hole in the wrist, obviously arterial bleeding (as in, "gush, gush, gush"). Those are the facts of the incident. The rest is the fun part, the story-telling. I grabbed the pumping hole with my left thumb, and thought about the situation for what seemed like a long time, probably about a second. [Funny how thoughts speed up in such circumstances, but memories are like just a few frames clipped out of a full length movie.] Thus, having a well-formulated plan, I endeavored to put the plan into action. I went into the house (with blood saying, "drip-drip-drip" on the floor and carpet) to get a rag. I even considered taking time to close and lock the door, and to turn off the TV, but rejected the idea because I might have to release my grip on the gusher. I did take time to grab my wallet, though, and put it in my pocket (gush, gush, gush). I then proceded, in an orderly fashion (just as I was taught in 1st grade fire drills), to my garage and climbed in the truck. This is when I encountered my first unplanned obstical -- how does one hold a gusher, steer, and shift gears with only one operable hand? Taking a clue from vacation condo owners, I decided to time-share. Hold, steer (gush, gush), shift (gush), hold, ... After I got out of the garage, and headed down my 1/4 mile driveway, I happened upon the less-than-optimal solution of using the wadded up (and very wet) rag pressed up against my ribs with the gusher holding it there. So, I was thus able to drive the three miles to my neighbor's house. As I drove up, seeing as how it was the dinner hour, I politely honked my horn in a very calm and sedate manner, as you might expect an unexpected visitor to do. I then got out of the truck, just as Tina, the neighbor's 30-something daughter came out, a very irritated expression on her face (after all, I WAS unannounced!). I asked if someone could drive me to the hospital, since I had, with great cleverness and dexterity, shot myself. I counted the beats of the gusher ("one, two, three...") and the changing expression on her face as she realized what the apparition in front of her was and was saying. Quite a transformation, that: irritation, puzzlement, horror, and then paleness as she almost began to faint. I said, "now Tina, don't get excited on me," (never considering the double entendre of the comment), and she visibly pulled her thoughts back to the practical, a look of steely efficiency coming over her. She called for her brother, John, and we chatted amiably for a moment while waiting for my driver-to-be. And so it came to pass that any further control over my own life was taken away from me for the next five days. I said, "John, how about taking me to the hospital?" "Nope," said John, "I'm taking you to meet the ambulance up to the highway. But first, I'm going to tie off that arm." With that, he got a cargo strap out of the back of my truck, and wrapped things up tight. Made me wish I'd thought of that. "That's in case you pass out while I'm driving." Boy, did that make me feel silly -- why didn't I do that already? So, we headed for the highway, 20 miles off, with Tina calling ahead for the ambulance, complete with volunteer EMTs and 12 hours of mandatory training per year. We got to the pavement at about the same time the ambulance made it to the turnoff after their 10 mile drive from the township. We then made the 90 mile trip to the closest hospital, and after chatting with the nurses for a while, they loaded me on a medevac chopper, and took me and my arm to Albuquerque where the fun really began. I'm here to tell you, some of those nurses are F-I-N-E! In all the events that took place initially, I hadn't realized that the boolit exited my elbow. I didn't know there was an exit wound until just before they put me on the chopper. After the cutting was done by the docs, I asked them about penetration and damage. The bullet had travelled up between the bones of my forearm, and out the back of the arm above the elbow. The docs said that they had to clean out the black jelly (my term, not theirs -- they said they "did a debridement" of that black jelly) except for about the last two inches of the hole. By my figuring, that's pretty impressive for a little 850 fps lead boolit. No bones were hit, only arteries, nerves, and muscle, but even so, that's a solid six inches of good damage. Nosiree, not bad at all for such a light load. My sincere apologies to the thread; I've looked and looked, but I can't find the boolit. I know it's somewhere in my back yard, probably under a bunch of pine needles. So, I am unable to report on deformation. grumble PS-- A cop escorted my ambulance to the hospital. I asked him to hold my 357 carry gun since it was freaking out the ER nurses. We talked about what happened in a friendly way while waiting for the chopper. When I got home again, I showed him where the events occured, and he returned my .357, and even added to it -- he gave me a citation for "Negligent Use of a Deadly Weapon." I didn't appreciate that very much. I'll enter my "Not Guilty" plea on the 30th of this month. Moral -- don't talk to cops. PPS-- I almost forgot; the reason the gun went off when I put it on 'full safe' is that with the slide back about an eighth of an inch, the block that locks the firing pin can't engage the pin. So, when the decocking took place, the hammer struck the pin, which was free to travel. Bang. file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ARTHUR%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image002.gif

[The Double D]

I'm going to crash this party.

That box scares the...well it scares me. That enclosed box holds all the heat in. The wood is going to get drier and drier. After a casting session how hot does the wood feel? Can you put your hand on it? Can you feel the warmer air when you reach in the box. Look around for cement board like used on walls behind wood stoves and line your box with that.

I would also think that the box concentrates the lead fumes and saturates/contaminates any thing placed in the box. The only air flow is from the front. That is going to creat eddies in the corneres and sides.

The exhaust hood is a great idea. To increase air flow into the cabinet, I would drill a series of 1 inch holes, front to back along the bottom of the cabinet sides.

These holes should be at least 1/4 to 1/2 inch above the floor of the cabinet. Add a strip across the bottom front of the cabinet to create 1/4 to 1/2 inch lip. This should contain any spills with in the cabinet.

[454PB]

Stories like that just make you cringe. The "victim" did a fine job of putting a humorous twist to it.

As to the lead pot, I'm glad to hear it turned out well. I NEVER walk away from a pot that is plugged in. Thermostats can stick, pots can leak, and timers can fail too.

[Patrick L]

Gee, Double D you're the first person who ever saw these pictures in over a year that I've posted them that thinks it's dangerous.

I have never noticed any warmth to the wood during a casting session, but I can check next time I cast. If it does seem to be in excess, I guess I can look for something to line the back with to insulate it.

As for the draw being only from the front, that was intentional. That way the air comes from behind me and out the vent. The vent is really there to vent nasty smells and smoke more than dangerous fumes. I thought lead fumes only become a problem around 1200 degrees or so, and we don't cast anywhere near that heat.

[Bad Water Bill]

Air like water and electricity ALWAYS take the path of least resistance. With the BIG front opening.I am surprised you can get the pots up to casting temp with that much air movement. As far as the lead fumes go, they come off the top of the pots and are sucked out of the house faster than a speeding boolit.
Super nice work area

[DLCTEX]

I plan to cover my new casting bench with galvanized metal for heat resistence and easy cleanup. If I bend lip up all the way around this will be a catch basin in case of an oops. Hardi Board under it would be really heat resistent.

[Shiloh]

Pat,
It looks to me that you have another problem. Your far to organized.

Skeet1

I would be embarrassed to show you mine. I do it on a workbench in the garage and it ain't pretty.

Shiloh

[FN in MT]

Was out in NJ a few yeasr ago...My Mom lives 1 mile from the Atlantic. Drove out from MT, brought some shotguns and all my old saltwater fishing gear. Had a great month of clays shooting and fishing. Drove home in two days with a chest full of bluefish and a few stripers.

One day decided to give my cats and the huskies a treat so figured I'd cook up one of those big bluefish for them. Had an old microwave , placed it on the workbench in the GARAGE , set it for 5 minutes and stuck a big Pyrex pan in there with a big hunk of bluefish in it.

Then the UPS guy shows up minutes after I started it with a 2 1/2" M-19 that I'd bought online a few days earlier. So I go in the house start playiing with the new gun, get on line, go to the S&W Forum......etc.

About an HOUR later I look at my garage from the living room window and theres smoke coming out the entrance door!! The microwave was on fire as well as a few items on my bench. Grab the five pound dry chemical extinguisher I have mounted by the door and put the fire out. Grab the garden hose from the side of the house, open the door, pull the circuit breaker for the garage....and sparingly water down the bench and the microwave.

Apparently the TIMER never shut the oven OFF. The fish was basically nothing but CARBON, the Pyrex dish was in ten pieces and the heat from the microwave metal was still quite amazing. You have not lived until you smell what carbonized bluefish smells like. Coated the walls, the Tahoe, and Two motorcycles with a greasy, smelly coating that was a bitch to clean away.

MY "almost burnt the garage down" story.

FN in MT

[Heavy lead]

I use galvanized as a bench top for mine, real easy cleanup. I have a 250 cfm exhaust fan that sits 10" above Lee 20# pot (bottom pour obviously) don't seem to have a problem with it coming to temp. As a side note I have the fan on a switch/recepticle combo so when the fan gets shut off the pot has to be off, just a thought. Nice clean setup, glad nothing bad happened.

[Old Ironsights]

Not to read all of the responses (because I'm in a hurry) but my Pot plugs into a switched outlet that is connected to the exhaust fan. Pot is not on if fan is not on.

[NHlever]

When I built my small workshop in the end of the garage, I wired all my power tool outlets to a main switch. I leave a light on that is built into one machine, so I know if there is power to any of my power tools when I leave the shop. It worked so well, especially when there were kids around that I did the same kind of thing for my melting pot. I put that on the same circut as a light in my garage that I can see from the house, or obviously see on the way out of the garage. If I shut that light out, all power to my melting pot, and vent fan is off. Works pretty well though sometimes if feels like a pain to have to go turn that light on to cast, or run my lube sizer which uses the same outlet for the lube heater.

[725]

Wow. Neat and organized. Admirable. As far as the heat build up concerns, it seems to me that the vented stove hood would eliminate any heat along with the fumes. I have a similar set up with a stove hood except mine looks like a child designed it and not a finish carpenter. Well done.

[Patrick L]

Thank you 725. I'm actually a high school music teacher by trade, but the son of a carpenter. Apparently I paid attention to Dad at least some of the time:-D

[Ricochet]

I'm too embarrassed to show anyone my casting and loading area. I'm not neat and organized.

Man, Grumble really did a number on his arm! I hadn't read that story.

[buck1]

I forgot mine once, FOR TWO WEEKS!! RCBS pot and the good lord watching out for me. It broke me from sucking eggs! ....Buck

[Bret4207]

Jeeze, that's about as safe as you can get. The heat isn't going to build up and neither are the fumes. Common sense needs to come into play here guys. I've seen pic of guys clad from head to toe in protective gear and wearing a MASK when they're OUTSIDE in the open air smelting! Safety is fine, but there are limits to everything.

I left a Palmer hot pot on once and set it on my bench and walked away for a minute. Still have that nice burnt spot to remind me I'm stoopit.

[bullshot]

Could I build a casting area like this. You bet! It would never look like that after the first casting session. There would be crap everywhere. Little pieces of sprue that can't be picked up with glove. Splatters, drips ,whoops's. My cabinet would be protected with an uneven layer of lead.

[bcarver]

I was thinking of a timer while reading your post.
I use them on fish tank and case cleaner.
I get the kind with 15 minute settings.
You can set it for say 3 hours at the start of your casting session.
You will still have to unplug at end of session but if you forget it would cut off soon and give you 21 hours to "remember" and go back before it would cut on for another three hours.
I use mine and can set my case cleaner to how long it think they need and leave the house.

[cohutt]

I was thinking of a timer while reading your post.
I use them on fish tank and case cleaner.
I get the kind with 15 minute settings.
You can set it for say 3 hours at the start of your casting session.
You will still have to unplug at end of session but if you forget it would cut off soon and give you 21 hours to "remember" and go back before it would cut on for another three hours.
I use mine and can set my case cleaner to how long it think they need and leave the house.

I use the same sort- it is in 15 minute increments up to 12 hours. I hot wired it into the tumbler cord but don't run it all night or when i'm not going to be around due to the fact that tumbler motors can fail by overheating.

[JohnH]

Jeez, I must be missin' somethin'. I'm still casting in my kitchen after 20+years, I don't have any fancy hoods or vents and I have to unplug the pot so I can move it after each casting session 'cause SWMBO won't go for my leavin' my setup in the way.

We all forget. I've reached the age where it is easier to remember if I double checked something than it is to remember if I did it in the first place. I hate door locks........

[crabo]

I use the same sort- it is in 15 minute increments up to 12 hours. I hot wired it into the tumbler cord but don't run it all night or when i'm not going to be around due to the fact that tumbler motors can fail by overheating.

I took a hole saw and cut a bunch of holes in the bottom of my vibrator base. I then have a small fan blowing through the holes to keep the motor cool. You can clean alot more cases and the motor doesn't overheat.

[PDshooter]

Sounds to me, one thing only.........AGE!
I'm 53 and bigger bo-bo then ever before. I once droped a live primer into my cast pot of molten lead ...........KABOOM! Some how it got in with my junk bullets that would'nt make the grade. Just got alittle burned:neutral:
Glad everthing turned out OK!:drinks:

[PatMarlin]

I don't plan to shoot myself, but I did buy this product incase of an accident as we live so far away from help:

http://www.celoxmedical.com/

Nice casting setup. That's the very same vent hood I use. Instead of the duct tape on that front hole I made a nice wood cover. I put a grainger vent booster fan in the duct also for more suction power.

[The Double D]

Gee, Double D you're the first person who ever saw these pictures in over a year that I've posted them that thinks it's dangerous.

I have never noticed any warmth to the wood during a casting session, but I can check next time I cast. If it does seem to be in excess, I guess I can look for something to line the back with to insulate it.

As for the draw being only from the front, that was intentional. That way the air comes from behind me and out the vent. The vent is really there to vent nasty smells and smoke more than dangerous fumes. I thought lead fumes only become a problem around 1200 degrees or so, and we don't cast anywhere near that heat.

Patrick, It's good set up. The points I made are minor. Check the wood temperature behind the pot and up high. I wouldn't do much more than put up some cement board or maybe a piece sheet rock right over what you have. This the only part that I see as a potential fire hazard and needs checked out. I wouldn't line it with sheet metal that get hot also. Just treat it like a free standing wood stove.

I

[Patrick L]

Double D,

I don't know if this makes any difference, but there is clearance between both pots and the rear wall. Its not very apparent from the picture in the original post.

This is how I mounted the top pot

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Casting%20cabinet/GunStuff024.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Casting%20cabinet/GunStuff028.jpg

That said, I will give a feel to the wood with an ungloved hand next time I cast.

[jonk]

I like the setup but agree, it's too organized. :D

So far as 'lead fumes' building up, I don't much worry about lead fumes. I don't run the pot 1000+ degrees. In any case I've often felt that even if there ARE lead fumes in the air, that as soon as they get away from the hot pot they are going to harden back into lead dust and being as lead is dense, fall out of the air. I can't prove this of course, but I've never worried. I mean I DO have a fan but it is a good 2 feet above the bench mounted in a window. The main reason I have an exhaust fan is to suck out the smoke from fluxing.

[Patrick L]

I cast for about an hour and a half tonight. As I was finished, I touched the wood sides of my cabinet with my bare hand, and there was practically NO warmth to the wood. Not even right around the pots. So I guess I don't have to worry about heat buildup.