View Full Version : "Un-Bubbarizing" a 91 Arg Rifle & Blueing
12-21-2005, 12:34 PM
I picked up a matching 91 Argentine Mauser rifle that has been chopped off and stripped. I have the parts to put it back, although it will not be in a style that is official. The barrel is now 21" . which puts it between the carbine and rifle. Bubba has filed the muzzle down so the front sight ring will slide on. It was not soldered very well so the forearm stock band was notched around the sight and screwed in place, thereby holding the front sight in place. There was no rear sight sleeve. A Williams open sight was installed in it's place.
I want to restore it back to a somewhat original configuration making it into a short rifle. My question is will I have any problem with the sights (front and rear) if I sweat then back on and then re-blue the gun? I seem to rem,ember something about hot blue and cold solder not agreeing with each other.
12-23-2005, 08:40 AM
I am no professional gunsmith, but I believe your thinking is correct on the solder issue. Brazing is a better route, but since you probably have to go to a gunsmith for the blueing, why not have him do the sight as well?
Its a shame when someone so thoroughly screws up a good rifle, isn't it?
12-23-2005, 08:49 AM
No, no, never braze.....you use solder on the sights....either low temp silver or high temp silver if you're worried. Although bluing does attack soft regular solder it's not that much on like sights because it's not in the solution for that long. Alot of fine side by sides have the two tubes soft soldered and they blue those carefully.
12-25-2005, 11:19 AM
I'd guess Mauser originally used a rust blue process, though.
Solder will hold just fine if you have a decent fit between the barrel and the sight band. A lot of mausers had a screw going down through the sight base to locate and lock the front sight, but most of them got broke off when bubba hammered off the sights. You could take the barrel down to 17.63 inches and find a carbine nose cap and they you would have a calvary carbine. If you need to piece the stock you can do it under the front band. I do have front and rear sights for the argie, but no more carbine nose caps. If you go to gunbroker and scan the argies there are always one or two there in the carbine.
12-25-2005, 11:06 PM
KSCO, just got off gunbroker. At present they have four argies for sale. One bubbaized rifle
is currently going for $305.00 and they still have some time to go. There is a chopped carbine, an origional long rifle and another bubbaized one. There used to be five but I got that one. Bubba got the stock but I have an unbubbaized stock and hardware. The long rifle was at $315 an in nice shape. Haven't had an argie for years well that's about to end. This is one rifle that I don't have to get dies and brass for. Knew if I saved the dies and brass I'd get another one. My Christmas present to myself. Frank
Here is an Argie that walked in about 20 years ago and was severly bubba ed. The gun had been shortened with a hack saw and the bolt was cut off. Bubba wanted it sporterized for $10.00 and when he got the actual cost he sold the gun for $35. The gun WAS a mint DWM, matching numbers, with a perfect bore.
I added sights and crowned the muzzle and put a Krag bbl band and a Lyman 57 on the gun. All the parts were used from the junk box and I have a total of $57.00 in the gun. It will shoot under 2" on a good day and handles 220 bore riders very well.
12-31-2005, 09:06 PM
Well, here's one that got the right treatment, apparently a long time ago. I rescued it from the bargain rack at a gunshop in Nashville, Tennessee. It's in the original 7.65 caliber. The woodwork is excellent, with an older Fajen stock, and the bluing is mirror-smooth and about a foot deep! It shoots nice, too!
I think I'll keep it around a while!
01-01-2006, 01:47 AM
.............Someone not too long ago asked me what my favorite mil-surp rifle was. I did a mental survey mulling over looks, operation and sifting through past feelings of shooting satisfaction and I replied, "The 1891 Argentine".
I have never had an issue with the extended magazine, and in fact think it is quite racy looking myself. The stock is slim and trim, and the entire rifle appears well balanced and streamlined. The bolt operates very slick with no sidesaddle claw extractor, and the single stack mag feeds like grease.
...............Teach, that is a very fine looking sporter. To this day I bitterly curse Potterfield and Midway for buying both Fajen and Bishop and then closeing them down. I recall some big explaination about why they HAD to do it. Right, wrong, smart business move whatever, it still gives me gas whenever I think about it.
You could call them up and order a stock. While doing so you could ask them to leave the pistol grip full, or the buttstock, or to rout the barrel channel for a straight taper octagon. Extra charges would be nil or very inexpensive. I cannot think of one stock supplier today who will do that without having an apoplectic seizure, or doesn't just constantly say, "Nope, can't do it, nope can't do that either, uh-uh no way we don't do that".
I have a M93 Marlin that had a washed out 26" straight taper octagon barrel. I replaced it with a 36RC 20" tapered round barrel that was NOS from GPC for $56. I called Boyds Gunstocks as they make stocks/forends for the M336 and M93. I talked to some girl who kind of had an idea of what a levergun looked like, mostly.
I was getting no where with her and could see she was getting kind of flustered and that I'd soon be told a flat out, no! I finally asked if I could speak to someone else. Maybe one of the people in the shop. I mean all I needed was a forend for a M93 that could have it's barrel channel routed for a M36 round tapered barrel. I'm not a rich guy but I understood that there could be extra charges. I'm also not handy in creating a decent looking forend if it isn't 90% done to start with.
First guy I got was a refugee from Mc Donalds who'd just apparently gotten a job running a Blanchard stock duplicator or tracer lathe or whatever. Maybe he just sweeps up? That was a dud so he got someone else. This guy listened while I explained what I wanted to have done. There was silence on the line after I'd gotten done. Finally he says, nah we can't do that. Okay, sheesh what a circle jerk.
As a last resort I called Great American Gunstocks. What you get from them looks like it was whacked out by a blind guy with a meat cleaver and a couple screw drivers for chisels. They said sure they could do that. Took my CC number and about 3 weeks later I got a forend faintly identifiable as something for the front of a levergun, but defiantly a levergun sporting an octagon barrel.
Called'em back up and got the gee whiz, that's hard to believe, runaround. They said to send it back and they'd carve out a new one so I did. I was beginning to think they'd forgotten about me or maybe a plague had come through and wiped them all out or something. Finally I got the new one. I do have to say they credited me my return postage and did not charge me to re-send this new one.
It charitably looked like a levergun forend, the barrel channel was round but not tapered. Just a straight 1/2" round deal. The hole for the magazine tube was bored off center to the right at the reciever end, but I think I can salvage that. I hope. I sure wish that Bishop or Fajen was still around!
01-01-2006, 06:41 PM
The problem with solder and hot salts bluing is the chemical action of the bluing salts. They attack the solder bond, and usually dissolve it. Brownell's Hi-Force 44 is a soft solder that's supposed to be able to withstand conventional hot salts bluing, but I think I'd err on the side of caution and either silver-solder the sight on, or use one of the rust-blue processes out there. I do all my bluing with Brownell's Dichropan IM, which cures in boiling water, not the higher temperature Oxanate process. It takes several applications, with steel wool scrubbing or buffing with a super-soft wire wheel between coats. It's a much slower process than a 10-minute dunk in super-hot salts, but it's safe for older guns like double-barreled shotguns with soft-soldered barrels, and other oldtimers.
01-01-2006, 07:03 PM
Thanks for all the info guys...
I have some silver solder that is labeled "Silver-Bearing Solder". It's 96% Tin and 4% Silver. Is this different from traditional silver solder? It melts fairly easy.
I seem to remember silver solder took more heat to melt that common lead solder.
What do you think???
01-02-2006, 09:45 AM
Yeah, that's not really silver solder. Like it says, it's "Silver-Bearing Solder." It's a lead-free plumbing solder. Might work well. The trick to getting solder to stick is having the right flux for the job.
01-02-2006, 07:47 PM
I do a lot of hard soldering for plumbing. My method is to clean the pipes up nice and shiney, heat and flux, apply solder then flux again to really get the solder to suck in. I've never had a pipe leak when I use this method. Don't be bashfl with the solder either, stick it to 'er.
01-12-2006, 07:30 PM
Buckshot, That was a funny and sad story.
01-23-2006, 09:51 PM
Here's a Loewe, all matching, mirror bright bore .312, never been touched, usual ground crest- B series SN so 1892- shots good for 114 years old
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