What are the effects of water-quenching?

[Doc K]

The Facts:
1. My first ever casting 5 days ago (500 good guys, 50 near misses, 50 total rejects, 8lbs of sprue left over)
2. .45ACP
3. Alloy – 2/3 WW, 1/3 Lead, Enough Tin to be 2%
4. 6 bullet Mould – Lee TL452 200gr SWC
5. Water quenched (Seemed like the convenient thing to do)
6. Lube – Lee Alox
7. When seated case is bulged
8. When dropped into gun barrel – No Go!
9. Case measures 0.47 to 0.476 inches after Taper Crimp (Previous shootable reloads with Speer LSWC measured 0.47)

Questions:
Will the bullets shrink if I wait a few weeks?
Should I size them now? (I was hoping to not have to size them)
Would the bullets be the right size if I had not water-quenched them?

Thanks for any help.

[GabbyM]

You shouldn't have a .006" diameter deviation.
I can't tell you what's wrong but something is.
First have you cheeked a set of bullets from your mold to see if they are uniform?

With the Lee six banger it's common for people to inadvertently grip on the spur plate handle thus opening the blocks during metal pour to produce over sized bullets.

Deviations from temp variations may run .001”. .006” is something mechanical.

Also you don't need to water quench that alloy for a 45acp. Actually I'd use half WW half pb + 1% tin then air cool. Any hardness over BHN #14 in a 45 acp is considered by some , but not all, to be detrimental.

[44man]

Any alloy with antimony will expand and harden with aging. Water dropped just speeds it up and adds more hardness. When you have a problem with oversize boolits, just size after aging.
But it does sound like you have a mold closing problem.
I agree that you do not need hard boolits in the ACP.

[Ricochet]

Don't ever squeeze the sprue plate handle together with the mould handles as you cast. Close the blocks, close the sprue plate and TURN LOOSE OF ITS HANDLE! You can see the front of the blocks open up and let light shine through if you squeeze the sprue plate handle. You'll get a good many boolits with fins on them, and many others that are just too big. Just hold the mould block handles squeezed together.

[waksupi]

Doc, I had a similar thing happen with the .45 ACP. I had to seat the bullet, then do a taper crimp in a separate operation. Problem disappeared. I don't now if this will help you or not.

Welcome aboard!

[32Special]

Try a Lee factory crimp die. Unless you have a really tight match chamber, the crimp die will size and crimp the loaded round. Just fyi.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have same mold. When cast from straight ww's they are coming out at .4535.

I air cool them and run them through a saeco lubrisizer die of .452. They come out .452 and then I insert the boolit into a slightly belled case and with a Dillon seating die I seat them at 1.260 I believe.

In this condition they will not chamber into my barrel. They need to go through my Dillon Taper crimp die. After that they are fine and feed perfectly and give me decent groups out of my Taurus 1911. A Lee FCD also works well but the Dillon is a taper crimp and works bett.

http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/jj187/dancorrigan/?action=view&current=IMG_0014-1.jpg

[Doc K]

Don't ever squeeze the sprue plate handle together with the mould handles as you cast.

I very definitely could have been squeezing the sprue plate handle. I'll try again in the a.m.
I would think "fins" along the seams would show up if the mould plates weren't together, but I now have something different to try.

I do perform separate seating and taper crimp steps.
I really didn't want to have to size the bullets. People that I have talked to, say they don't have to size bullets from Lee TL moulds.

Thanks for the replies. You guys are awesome.

New motto: When doing something new...Work in small batches.

[Bob Jones]

I've got some tumble lube molds that don't need sizing, some that do.

Depends on the individual mold and gun, no general rule. Some chambers are tighter than others and won't allow any oversizing.

[shotman]

I will go with the others about the SP handle . Also the fins are not as likely to show on a Al mold. You will tend to see a more pronounced mold line . Thats my .02 rick

[Doc K]

GabbyM, 44man and Richochet are right.
I kept my "finger off the trigger" (aka Sprue Plate handle) and lo and behold the boolits measure 0.452.
It's amazing what happens when you use the right technique!
Hope I don't have any more 500-bullet learning opportunities.
I'll never do that again. :oops:

Thanks for all the help.

[cabezaverde]

GabbyM, 44man and Richochet are right.
I kept my "finger off the trigger" (aka Sprue Plate handle) and lo and behold the boolits measure 0.452.
It's amazing what happens when you use the right technique!
Hope I don't have any more 500-bullet learning opportunities.
I'll never do that again. :oops:

Thanks for all the help.


As beginner mistakes go, that is a small one. Believe me.