How do I lube?

[taft33]

Can I use straight crisco for a muzzle loader bullet?Does it need to be really cold so it gets in the grooves?Should the lube be even with the outer edge of the grooves?Cast the bullets yesterday,burnt my fingers,dog ran off with the gloves I was using,S.O.B. chewed a hole in them.Overall had a good time and made some good lookin bullets.Goin to shoot them tommorow. Walt

[versifier]

Yes, you can use crisco, though it's not the best in hot weather. It is easier to apply if chilled. Fill up the grooves with it. I like TC's Maxi Lube for the convenience. They've got a neat little plastic gizmo that screws onto the end of the tube that you can feed the bullets through and lube them with a squeeze. Neet, sweet. ;)
Dogs exist to teach us two things, patience and unconditional love, the exercise gotten while chasing them doesn't hurt, either. :roll:

[taft33]

Thanks for the advice.I think my dog was getting even for leaving him out in the cold to long.

[The Nyack Kid]

dont use butter flavor criso as it has salt in it . and you're going to be thinking of buttered popcorn all the time your shooting , that is not a fun distraction.

[1Shirt]

Years ago I used to make my lubes of beeswax, vasoline or crisco, and small amount of finest graphite. Worked well on my cast in center fires. When I started shooting maxi balls, and REALs, I used the same thing, on them and dipped them then made a cake cutter to trim off the excess. More beeswax in summer, more vasoline or crisco in cold weather. Worked well for me. Did use crisco for awhile on patches for round ball, but had better luck with a lot of other stuff particularly on hot days as crisco patches tended to contaminate some of the powder and I would get inconsistant ignition. Hope this is of use.
1Shirt. :coffeecom

[omgb]

Those of us who shoot a lot of BP in the big cartridge guns like the 45-90 or 45-110 have found that petrolium based lubes casue a solid tar/hard black cake to build up in the bore. So, as a result, we stear clear of them and lubes that contain the same. SPG is one of the best commercial lubes available for BP, White Lightning is better but hard to find and you must buy it in 4lb lots or more.

If you want to do this on the cheap and see how it goes, I have a lube recipe that works well for a lot of guys in MLs. Try 50% bees wax, 40% lard and 10% olive oil. If you have acess to it, you can also add a quantity of anhydrous lanolin. This helps it to absord moisture and hold it in suspension. On hot dry days with low Rh it keeps powder fouling soft. You can adjust the quantities up or down to suit your needs. the bees was is the stiffener. Do not substitute parafine. It is a petrolium based product and that's what we are trying to stay away from. Some use Soy wax in place of bees wax. Back in the BP days of the 19th century, the US Army used bees wax and mutton fat. Some still use it and it works well. Smells bad though:(

R J Talley

[Buckshot]

................Your rifle will tell you what it likes and doesn't like so far as lube, how much and where. Of course a flat based slug has no cavity to put lube into and some Minie' bullets have no lube grooves (Pritchits). I guess that if I'm suggesting that some will be finicky then others will not be.

I have lots of experience with only 2 types of muzzle loaders. I have two 58 cal military types and 2 long range 45 cal match type rifles. IIRC your rifle is a 54 cal with a 48" twist. Most Minie' type slugs are 58's, as it was such a common military caliber. There are a few 54 cal Minie's designs though.

My finicky 58 is a Parker-Hale repro of the P58 Naval Pattern 2 band. It has 5 grooves, 48" twist and progressive depth grooves (.013" deep at the breech and .005" deep at the muzzle). If I use a design with a generous cavity, like the 505gr Lee I can use Crisco in the base, and get off maybe 20 shots before fouling becomes an issue. This rifle will not abide lube in the lube grooves, as it will open groups and scatter shots.

If I go to a design like the Lyman 566gr P-H with it's shallow cavity, I can only get maybe 4-5 rounds gone before you have to have a mallet to drive the slug home. With this and like designs (Raphine 580gr Pritchit) I have to use straight Bore Butter or TC 1000. In this rifle's case I think part of the issue is the 5 narrower and deep grooves in the breech. I'm sure that powder fouling builds to the point where the Minie' won't upset as well after a point is reached.

Of lubes for these type (vs PRB shooting) rifled muskets I consider Crisco at the bottom of the pile both in price and ability so far as MY rifle is concerned. A buddy had a early 70's Lyman 3 band P53 Enfield repro that would shoot the Lee 505 with Crisco all day long. Mine just flat won't. Of lubes I've used, the Bore Butter, TC 1000, and Young Country are at the other end of the price and ability scale.

What I've done was to stretch out Crisco's use by mixing it with one of the others, and maybe also added some beeswax to the mix.

Your powder will also be a determining factor. The only imitation BP I've used has been Pyrodex, and was given the several pounds that I have. Since most of these claim almost no fouling then the entire lube issue may be moot.

http://www.fototime.com/E2D490A57A36606/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/1F669A936B917DB/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/6BF0D8313CD43F3/standard.jpg
A couple examples of why I like what I like. If you're going to use the imitations then you're on your own. Of the real stuff, it has been years since I've used any GOEX, and when I had it was hot and burned dirty producing a hard fouling. I've heard they've responded to competition and it's much better.

Elephant is no longer available, except what migth be on the shelf someplace. I have a couple pounds left of a case I bought in early 2000 which was good stuff. Not real hot but it produced a soft sooty easy to deal with fouling. The best stuff of what I've used has been the Swiss BP. It's a hot sporting grade powder and burns very clean.

..................Buckshot

[Lloyd Smale]

I use 45 percent crisco 45 pecent beeswax and 10 percent olive oil.

[omgb]

Go here. These guys know BP. The abov e advice is right on target and if you follow it you won't go wrong. For the sake of academics, experimentation or just kicks and giggles, follow the link and see what others are using. Good Shooting! :) http://www.bpcr.net/BPCR_lubes.htm

[omgb]

One more thing....as far as that recipe with "coon oil" goes, I have never tried it but I figure that any guy that thinks "coon" is good BBQ is just crazy enough that he may know what he's talking about. Sort of a savant thing if you catch my drift.

R J Talley

[omgb]

I'm back again. here's a link to a study done by Dan Theodore. http://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-results_schedules/documents/2004_DEC_BPCR_Lube_Thoughts_and_Findings.htm Dan has done more research on this issue than anybody to date. His White Lightning lube is absolutely the best stuff around for BP cartridge. He has tried them all and what he has in WL is the result of literally thousands of rounds expended.

R J Talley

[omgb]

One more link. This is the technical library for BPCR. Enjoy.
http://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-results_schedules/documents/Technical_Information.htm

R J Talley

[44man]

I have to disagree about SPG! I have been shooting BPCR for a long time and SPG always leaves the last 10" of barrel full of hard, dry fouling. I can't blow tube enough to clear it and have to wipe between shots instead. The amount of crud that pushes out makes me wish I had never wasted the money on SPG. I think it sells for 100X more then the ingredients cost. Home made lubes with Lubegard, beeswax and lanolin work much better.
For the muzzle loader I find Young Country is the best with bore butter (Wonder Lube.) next. Bore butter will dry out after a while on pre-lubed boolits and is almost impossible to use if it is cold out but it is accurate. Crisco will work but it is better to mix it for the conditions.
Then there are the black lubes with moly in them. They all cause severe verticle dispersion in BPCR's. My next test will be to try straight Young Country on boolits for BPCR. Young Country has won me tons of prizes and allowed me to shoot over 200 rounds in a match without once wiping out my muzzle loader barrels. If any load got harder to push down, I just added a little more Young Country to the next patch and it would clear it up. No problems at all in any weather condition either.

[taft33]

I bought some stuff called blue and gray minnie and maxie ball lube.The guy gave it to me for half price.Going to try it out tommorow.Anyone ever use it?Will try all your suggestions also.I live in a small town so I cant just go down town and buy a good commercial lube.We have one shooting supply store in town and they dont have much.Thanks Walt

[omgb]

Blue and Grey has been around since at least the mid 70s. I recall using it back when I lived in Great Falls MT in the late 70s. IIRC, it's pretty much the same stuff that Bore Butter is. Does it still have the mint smell? Any way, it worked OK in my CB pistol and in my TC Renegade so it may work for you too.

As to the negative about the SPG, I have heard of others having a similar problem. Here in SoCal if the temp runs up into the 90s and above and the Rh drops into the low 20s and below, SPG has failed me too. That being said, White Lightning by Dan Theodore works under the harshest conditions. I've never had it fail. No leading, no dry crust nothing, zip. And that's through a 35" heavy barrel using 30-1 lead. So, experiment. Use what works for you. I've got tubs of crap I cooked up while on my quest for the best lube. Some of it actually works! Most of it though just gave me softer hands :)

Any way, have fun and let us know how it works out. Do check out those links though. The tech stuff by Dink Trenk is worth the trouble of logging on just on its own.

R J Talley

[omgb]

Read that 34" barrel, not 35". Sorry about that. RT