View Full Version : Thanks
12-17-2005, 03:49 PM
Just wanted to say thanks to all those who replied to my questions the last few weeks. While I used to cast and shoot pistols, I had never done rifles before. Thanks to all the good advice I got here and a couple of other boards, iIshot my K31 at the range today. C309-!50-f Lee bullet behind 17.5 grains of 2400 shot well enough for me to decide to scout type scope it (no drill mount) to compensate for aging eyes.
12-17-2005, 04:01 PM
Nelson, aging eyes? You really feel like you have to give ALREADY??? I'm 50+ (don't advertise your exact age on the internet -- in fact lie if you want to for security) , and I shoot better without glasses than with. Go figure. But, if I put on 'safety glasses' I can't stand it. Midlife crisis. I still go ahead and wear glasses. Man, when I was a kid I could see a loon's eyeball at sunrise at, what?, maybe a mile? No more.... That was really neat! sundog
12-17-2005, 09:54 PM
Yes, the older eyes can make a difference. One of the nice things about a K-31 is that you can mount a scope to the rifle and be able to shoot both with the scope or issued iron sights ( without taking the scope off the rifle ).
This last Wednesday I went to the range to test shooting with iron sights and scope. I had loaded 40 rounds with 308-165-SIL -----sized .309-----17 gr of 4227.
I shot a 20 shot group with the issued iron sights, and a 20 shot group with the scope. As stated before, I did not remove the scope to shoot the iron sights.
With the iron sights, 18 rounds shot 3 5/8 horizontal and 3 1/2 vertical with two shots taking the group out to 4 1/4 horizontal and 4 3/8 vertical.
With the scope, 19 rounds shot 1 7/8 horizontal and 2 1/4 vertical with one shot taking the group out to 2 3/8 horizontal and 3 1/8 vertical.
As you can see, with the scope the group was apx. 2 inches smaller ( diagonal ).
I was trying to see if my 74 year old eyes did make a difference when shooting with iron sights vs. scope.
After that I shot 40 rounds with 30-180-SP-----sized .309-----16 gr. of 4227 of which 20 rounds were shot with iron sights and 20 rounds were shot with scope.
With the iron sights, 18 rounds shot 3 5/8 horizontal and 3 1/8 vertical with two shots taking the group out to 3 5/8 horizontal and 4 7/8 vertical.
With the scope, 20 rounds shot 3 1/8 horizontal and 2 3/8 vertical.
The scope shot a one inch ( apx. ) smaller group than the iron sights.
I have come to suspect that there are two factors in sighting a rifle. One is wobble. Wobble is caused by any part of the body ( mostly the face ) tuching the rifle stock. It does not matter if you are shooting with a scope or iron sights, you will have wobble. At 100 yards. I estimate you have about 1/2 inch of wobble. The second factor is sight error. This is where older eyes have problems. When I was in my late 20's I was shooting on a rifle team. I would shoot with extremely small holes in the peap sights. People would ask me how in the world I could see with those small holes. Now at age 74 I need much larger holes. At any rate, with iron sights you can have sighting errors ( the difference of white between the top of the front post and the black ball will vary from shot to shot ). With a scope there is little or no sighting error.
As you can see from the above results, shooting with a scope vrs iron sights will make a difference. When reporting the results of our testing or group sizes, we should consider the difference between sighting with iron sights or scope and acknowledge the difference.
12-18-2005, 10:29 AM
Yes, my eyesight has been slowly deteriorating over the years, too, but I ask you, is that any reason for the Braille numbers on the drive-up ATM's? :shock:
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