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randyrat
11-18-2008, 07:12 AM
I've been reading .452 diameter and i seen lead bullets FS .454 dia. ready to go for the 454.... In the Lee catalog it says;C452-300-RF for the Casull -the only option. What uses the .454 dia boolit

Tn_River_Ratt
11-18-2008, 07:54 AM
Randyrat

Slug your bore to determine boolit size. My SRH measures .451 and allow .001 to engage the rifling. I am casting the Lee c452-252 keith style and have ordered the 452-300 that you are looking at. Just my $.02 From one rat to another.

Tn_River_Ratt

454PB
11-18-2008, 01:26 PM
In very general terms, the .454 uses .451" jacketed bullets and .452" cast boolits. I own three .454 revolvers, and none of them will chamber a boolit over .452" if any part of that diameter is outside of the case. They fit too tightly in the chamber.

I'd suggest you measure you throats and barrel and buy accordingly.

Back when I first started casting, there were still lots of old Colts and Colt clones around that needed .454" boolits. It seems that began to change to .452" about the time Ruger started making the Blackhawks in .45 Colt.

However, it's easier to size a .454" boolit down to .452" than it is to enlarge a .451" mould or it's boolits.

unclebill
11-18-2008, 01:36 PM
In very general terms, the .454 uses .451" jacketed bullets and .452" cast boolits. I own three .454 revolvers, and none of them will chamber a boolit over .452" if any part of that diameter is outside of the case. They fit too tightly in the chamber.

I'd suggest you measure you throats and barrel and buy accordingly.

Back when I first started casting, there were still lots of old Colts and Colt clones around that needed .454" boolits. It seems that began to change to .452" about the time Ruger started making the Blackhawks in .45 Colt.

However, it's easier to size a .454" boolit down to .452" than it is to enlarge a .451" mould or it's boolits.

i have a raging bull .454 casull that needs .452's
and a pair of pietta 1873 .45l.c. that need .454 boolits
mr. 454pb
you are dead on the money with that post.:drinks:

FN in MT
11-18-2008, 03:08 PM
454PB is as previously stated...Dead on the Money. Neither of my Freedom Arms revolvers tolerate anything over .452" into the cyl throats....can't fully seat the cartridge.

FN in MT

randyrat
11-18-2008, 10:29 PM
In very general terms, the .454 uses .451" jacketed bullets and .452" cast boolits. I own three .454 revolvers, and none of them will chamber a boolit over .452" if any part of that diameter is outside of the case. They fit too tightly in the chamber.

I'd suggest you measure you throats and barrel and buy accordingly.

Back when I first started casting, there were still lots of old Colts and Colt clones around that needed .454" boolits. It seems that began to change to .452" about the time Ruger started making the Blackhawks in .45 Colt.

However, it's easier to size a .454" boolit down to .452" than it is to enlarge a .451" mould or it's boolits. Ok That makes sense. I tried to tell the fellow that 454 takes a .452 cast boolit but he insisted they take .454 diameter. He ordered me a .454 mold. I'm going to change that order to a .452
The gun is someone elses and i said i would load for him, i haven't had time to slug the bore yet, check throats or even look at the pistol yet. All i know it is a Tauras 454 with about a 6" barrel.
The nice fellow convinced me all 454s take .454 boolits. Yep i feel like a real idiot now. Even the catalogs i have for lead boolits say .452 for most 45 Colts and.454s. Thanks

yondering
11-19-2008, 03:38 AM
My Taurus Raging Bull took .452" lead bullets. Cylinder throats were a tight slip fit for .451 jacketed bullets. I found it to be a pretty accurate gun, and easy to hit with.

Lead melter
11-19-2008, 09:29 AM
randyrat,
Never having played with a 454, my knowledge of boolit size is limited to Ruger Blackhawks. Each one I have tried will shoot a jacketed slug of .451" or .452" well, but requires a .453" cast boolit to shine. If you can get hold of one, try the RCBS 45-300-SWC sized .453". This is the best I've tried in my BH and makes a BIG hole in anything it hits.

By the way, just how cold is it in Wisconsin?

Castnshoot
11-19-2008, 10:30 AM
I've noticed what I consider Ruger's .454 cylinders sit a bit high, do they reflect a higher perceived recoil?

prs
11-19-2008, 12:53 PM
My experience is limited to lead boolits and .45 Colt in Ruger revolvers. The chambers readily take rounds loaded with .454 boolits, the cylinder throats are slightly ahead of the chambered rounds as they should be. Ruger is infamous for having produced .45 Colt cylinder throats undersized a good bit (maybe that works well with condom bullets, I would not know) and that made mine shoot lousy groups with .452 or .454 cast lead boolits. I used a reamer that gave me nice uniform .4535" throats in all 18 cylinders (three revolters) and those groups sweetened right up. The barrels' forcing cones were not a problem and all of my revolters have barrels that slugged out .4515 or a tight .452. My molds drop boolits with WW alloy right at .454 and they pass through the cylinder throats with just a modest push with a pencil. The barrel does not mind one itty bit about sizing the boolits down. I am puzzled why some of you guys can not chamber such rounds -- explain it to me again please! Is the Casull

prs

454PB
11-19-2008, 02:22 PM
It's only my opinion, but I think the .454 Casull revolvers are held to closer tolerances than .45 Colts. I own a Taurus RB, Ruger SRH, and a Freedom Arms 83. After carefully measuring all three for bore diameter, throat diameter, and barrel cylinder gap, they are very nearly identical. There is not more than .0005" difference between all three in bore or throats, and the Taurus has the biggest barrel cylinder gap at .004". If I load a boolit of .453" diameter, it is a force fit in any of them. All three cylinders lock up very tightly, and the F.A. is absolutely solid, no movement in the cylinder when cocked. F.A. revolvers are line bored, so having that cylinder solid is important.

Having owned probably 50 revolvers in my life, I've never seen any that were better fitted than these .454's.

bobthenailer
11-19-2008, 07:37 PM
i size the bullets for all of my FA 454 casulls to .452 and accuracy is excellent in all

randyrat
11-19-2008, 11:08 PM
randyrat,
Never having played with a 454, my knowledge of boolit size is limited to Ruger Blackhawks. Each one I have tried will shoot a jacketed slug of .451" or .452" well, but requires a .453" cast boolit to shine. If you can get hold of one, try the RCBS 45-300-SWC sized .453". This is the best I've tried in my BH and makes a BIG hole in anything it hits.

By the way, just how cold is it in Wisconsin? Hi Mark... Wi. is a balmy 25 degs F.. it teeters between 10 deg and 35 right now. It's been cloudy for days and it's been snowing off and on with very little staying on the ground. The ground isen't frozen quite yet. The lake affect snow is about 6"to 8" in the Hurley area. I'm sure Loyd S is up to his elbows by now in snow up there in the U. P Mich.. Hope he chims in with a snow report.( I think he is about ready to hibernate shhhhhh we don't want to stir him up too much)
The hunters are ready and the deer are nervous. The great White tail hunt starts this Saturday.....Yahoooooo....

unclebill
11-19-2008, 11:48 PM
It's only my opinion, but I think the .454 Casull revolvers are held to closer tolerances than .45 Colts. I own a Taurus RB, Ruger SRH, and a Freedom Arms 83. After carefully measuring all three for bore diameter, throat diameter, and barrel cylinder gap, they are very nearly identical. There is not more than .0005" difference between all three in bore or throats, and the Taurus has the biggest barrel cylinder gap at .004". If I load a boolit of .453" diameter, it is a force fit in any of them. All three cylinders lock up very tightly, and the F.A. is absolutely solid, no movement in the cylinder when cocked. F.A. revolvers are line bored, so having that cylinder solid is important.

Having owned probably 50 revolvers in my life, I've never seen any that were better fitted than these .454's.

i have my r.b.454 out for cleaning right now after shooting today
and on a lark i measured the cylinder gap.
yep .004

FN in MT
11-20-2008, 12:50 PM
It's only my opinion, but I think the .454 Casull revolvers are held to closer tolerances than .45 Colts. I own a Taurus RB, Ruger SRH, and a Freedom Arms 83. After carefully measuring all three for bore diameter, throat diameter, and barrel cylinder gap, they are very nearly identical. There is not more than .0005" difference between all three in bore or throats, and the Taurus has the biggest barrel cylinder gap at .004". If I load a boolit of .453" diameter, it is a force fit in any of them. All three cylinders lock up very tightly, and the F.A. is absolutely solid, no movement in the cylinder when cocked. F.A. revolvers are line bored, so having that cylinder solid is important.

Having owned probably 50 revolvers in my life, I've never seen any that were better fitted than these .454's.


Do You think they hold the .454's to closer tolerances due to the high working pressure of full power Casull loads?? IIRC factory Casull loads go 60,000 psi !!

I'd imagine that if tolerances were NOT tight the flame cutting would be excessive. And if the bolt fit, etc wasn't tight the gun would literally shoot itself even looser. Sounds plausible anyway.

I'll second the amazing lockup and precision of the FA revolvers. I've had three.....still have a 6" M-83 in .454/.45 Colt and a 4 1/4" M-97 in .44 Spcl. They ruin a guy for lesser revolvers.

FN in MT

Lead melter
11-20-2008, 05:10 PM
Randy,
I'll give you a call in a few days to see how the 'Ole Marlin' has faired. Muzzleloader season is a bust here so far. Cold one day, hurricane winds the next, 50's and fair today, windy again tomorrow, rainy on Saturday.

To heck with it all, I'm going to the all-you-can-eat chicken wing/pizza/salad joint tonight. Anybody want to come along? My treat!

9.3X62AL
11-20-2008, 08:44 PM
Kind of a general "rule", but pre-war 45 Colt throats tended toward .454", and post-war 45 Colt throats run closer to .451"-.452". I surely wouldn't take that rule to the bank, though. Gotta measure.

My vintage 1996 Ruger BisHawk in 45 Colt started life with .452" grooves and .449" throats. Why Ruger did this is beyond me, but they called it good and went on with the practice for a while. I obtained throat reamers that opened the throats to .4525" and polished them out to .453", and life got a lot better at once. .454" boolits get the nod now. The only remaining issue was the .449" expander spud in the RCBS die set--I had Buckshot cobble up a .451" M-die spud, and on I went quite happily. WW boolits don't take kindly to case mouths .006" undersized.

454PB
11-22-2008, 01:30 AM
Do You think they hold the .454's to closer tolerances due to the high working pressure of full power Casull loads?? IIRC factory Casull loads go 60,000 psi !!

I'd imagine that if tolerances were NOT tight the flame cutting would be excessive. And if the bolt fit, etc wasn't tight the gun would literally shoot itself even looser. Sounds plausible anyway.

I'll second the amazing lockup and precision of the FA revolvers. I've had three.....still have a 6" M-83 in .454/.45 Colt and a 4 1/4" M-97 in .44 Spcl. They ruin a guy for lesser revolvers.

FN in MT

That would be my guess. The SAAMI peak pressure specs for the .454 Casull equal the .300 WM rifle. None of these guns were cheap, so you expect the fit and finish to be very good. I have reported here before that I did have a problem with the Taurus which was warranty repaired. The Taurus repair department has all the warmth of an old hooker, but they did get it fixed.

Years ago I owned a .357 Colt Python that would give these three a run for their money in fit,finish and accuracy.

An interesting bone of contension is the fact that F.A. warns against using .45 Colt ammo in their gun, while Ruger prints it right on the barrel. I don't follow that practice, but a lot of owners do.