Pensions...

[375supermag]

Hi...
I retired about a year and a half ago at age 63-1/2 with reduced social security and payments from one employer pension. My choice to get out of the workforce and no regrets about the refuced social security. Financially, I am fine.
In November at age 65 I became eligible for pension benefits from a previous employer. It took several months to finally get them to start making the payments.
They made the first monthly payment today.

Has anybody else had issues getting pension payments from a defunct former employer?
The financial institution that bought the pension plan was lax about sending me paperwork to initiate the payments. However once I got the election forms(2 months late) they have been very professional and even agreed to pay me for two months of benefits that I hadn't received since I turned 65. They made that deposit to my account today also.

[Dapaki]

I had the opportunity to divest my earnings from my pension and put it in a 401K. The pension went bankrupt and is currently paying out $0.15 on the dollar. I have increased my earnings and am on track to retire at 68. I suggest everybody do the same if able.

[Rich/WIS]

Draw pensions from three sources (military, VA and SS) and never had a problem, although it took a while for the VA (about 3 months), but like your case they back payed from time of application.

[facetious]

I called it quits the last December at 62.5 and the wife 63.5. We started the wifes SS right away and are going to wait on mine. Between us we are we will have four pensions and her SS. plus some income from savings.

We met at the first place I worked so we have the same pension plans, she worked 9 years , I did 40. When she turned 62 Prudential sent a letter with the paper work to get it started with out us doing anything.( Prudential took over a company plan we had. The plan pays in full at 62.) When I quit I had started my paper work three month's early'er and it started paying the next month ajusted for the extra year worked.

We also each also have a pension's through a G.C.I.U. plan for people in the printing field. When I called them to get things going thy told me it would take 45 day's to process ,but that there was a three month back log of application's. I jokingly asked if every one was quiting at the same time? She kind of hesitated and said Ya it kind of looks like that. I guess with news papers going down the tube's every where every one who can are taking what thy can get and jumping ship. That is what I did, git while gitn's good.[smilie=s:

My wife wasn't working so hers went faster starting two month's after I quit with back pay to the first of the year. I just got and sent back mine and it SHOULD start in April. The guy's who retired in the year before me said it took a good six months to start getting payed, one was all most eight month's. I ask around to try and fine out what the hold ups were and get a head start on all the stuff thy want. Thy have been good to work with sending me all the stuff I would need to have filled out by my old employer the month before I quit so I think that my have helped speed thing up.

All this stuff is a PIA but it still beats going to work evey night!:drinks:

[la5676]

My pension is the land purchased during my farming days and now own free and clear, well, 'cept for property taxes. Wife and I both retired at 60. Her company gave her the option to take her non-contributory pension as an annuity or lump sum. We chose lump sum, for the same reason mentioned above. Too many pensions funds have been raped by corporate raiders in buyouts. They are cash cows in a company purchase. Used third party to move it to an IRA, she also had a 401-K she had contributed to(with company matching) for over 35 years there. Our logic on the lump sum was, in addition to not having much faith in pension funds being there in the future, annuitized payments end with her/my death. If we had wrapped our car around a pole on the way home that afternoon, those annuity payments do not go to your kids or estate. The company pension fund keeps it.

[facetious]

This is why I am waiting on my SS. Our pension's only offer annuity payments. That way the bigger SS payments would help if any thing happened with the pension's. But I think that any changes would be for the ones not yet retired. She didn't have enough years to get much and the company plan was frozen years ago and sold to Prudential . Most income will come from my G.C.I.U. pension, IRA's and her SS.

For the guy's not yet retired , start planing NOW! There isn't any one thing that will support you. You will have to string many thing to gather to make it work. As my dad would tell me " If you aren't thinking ten year's ahead, you will be ten year's behind."

[lightman]

For the guy's not yet retired , start planing NOW! There isn't any one thing that will support you. You will have to string many thing to gather to make it work. As my dad would tell me " If you aren't thinking ten year's ahead, you will be ten year's behind."

This is good advice! Except 10 years is not far enough ahead. Start when you are young. You'll be old soon enough!

I draw a pension from the company that I worked for for 35 years. I didn't have a pension from any of my earlier jobs. My paper work went very smoothly and my first retirement check arrived on schedule. I also contributed to a company 401K plan with company matching. A lump sum retirement payment was not an option.

[fatelk]

It seems like pensions in general are becoming a thing of the past. I had a pension when I started with my current employer 20 years ago. A couple years in they changed their retirement system and discontinued pensions for those under 40, going with an "enhanced 401k" instead. I was too young to stay with the pension, but the 9% employer contribution in the 401k was nice.

A couple years ago they did some sleazy corporate stuff, and long story short, their contribution went from 9% to 2%, as well as my health insurance premiums increasing by about $7k/yr. I'm still on the "sunny side of 50", pinching pennies to pay my bills and raise a family. Retirement for me is going to be a pipe dream. Fortunately the 401k has a good start from the good days. If I were 10 years younger with a couple hundred k in the 401k, I'd feel pretty good about it. In reality though, at my age I'm way behind.

The good news though, is that the company saved millions by eliminating most of the retirement contributions for a couple thousand employees. Profits are up! Business is good! A bunch of corporate types got some nice bonuses! :(

Yeah, I really stress savings to my kids. I want them to learn some financial discipline and long-term planning that I lacked when I was young. I also want to teach them to never rely on an employer for retirement savings.

[dtknowles]

My previous employer made me two offers to buy out my pension but they were both sucker deals. I would collect more in 5 years than they offered me as a lump sum. I started collecting a couple years ago when I turned 60 with a 50% survivors benefit for my wife. I am still working because I have a great job and I have high 6 figures in an IRA. Add to that I will be getting social security when I turn 65 and a half or something like that. Belt, suspenders and an elastic waist band. Be prepared.

Tim

[facetious]

I got lucky, I got into good trade when I was 22. and made good money for a kid. When I got into my apprenticeship one of the old guys told me that getting accepted for the apprenticeship was like winning the lottery. I guess he was right to a point, it lasted long enough to retire from. The pension's weren't as good as some but between use thy come to about half of what we need each month.

My dad was one of those number's guys who literally took me to the bank and had me start a IRA after I got the job and made sure I funded in full every year. Later I met a gal who worked as a investment counselor at the bank the wife and I used and started teaching use about things like mutual funds and such. About that time I got a 401-k at work. When thy came out with the ROTH's she talked us into moving stuff in to one for each of us.She is long gone and we have worked with the guy we use now for 15yr's putting this retirement thing together. And the thing is that we were never putting in really large amounts at any one time but with time and componding and little luck we were abale to peace together enough to call it quits.

Some times the hardest thing you can do is to take good advice. It can be hard to try and look at what life will be like in 20,30,40 or 50 years and try to figure out how to make it work. That's why it helps to have some one to do some of the math and help figure what you will need and how to get there.

“Compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. He who understands it, earns it ... he who doesn't ... pays it.”

― Albert Einstein

[6bg6ga]

The company that I had worked 20 years for went belly up in 1991. They however purchased an annuity for me and that provides a monthly payment. When I think back we got $7.50 for every year worked and that was a good package back then.

[winelover]

I've been retired since 2008 at 58 years old. Have a good pension and a employer supplemented SS payment till turning 62 1/2...............then started drawing my SS. My advice is to do the math and draw SS as soon as your eligible, unless your still working. Guberment propaganda, says otherwise. In my case, it would take about 15 years to make up for delaying SS...............are you going to live that long? Statistics say otherwise.

Definitely, contribute to employer sponsored saving plans, especially when they match. Max out on your IRA's. Contribute to Roth's. For every $3000, I contributed, I saved $1000 in Federal income tax.......can't beat that with a stick.

Winelover

[ioon44]

I retired in 2007 at age 57 with a pension and started SS at age 62 plus some VA disability, I took a large reduction for retiring early but I figure it is not so much how much you draw but how long you can draw it.

My father worked until he was 65 years old and passed away at age 66, I did not want to play that game.

[MT Gianni]

In a bankruptcy action the pension fund has traditionally been the first one funded. General class shareholders the last. I believe all major pensions are insured by the Pension Benefit fund and if you are a member of that fund you are required to get annual statements showing the state of each fund and the percentage of funding covered by deposits. Most of the good ones are in the high 80% range to low 90% range. If they get lower than 85% the premiums start to increase and under 80% they really increase. IIRC, under 70% is a take over of assets with Gov't fines and penalties.

I currently get 3 pensions and am waiting on SS until I hit full retirement age. One of my grandparents died at age 59, the other three and my parents lived into their 90's with a good quality of life.

Each administrator has their own rules and quirks about when they want information and how quickly they work. That isn't much different than most companies in the general work sector.

Congratulations on your retirement. I hope you investigated the options of payouts which can include a full payout of all monies paid in to your designated beneficiary, minus an admin fee.

[facetious]

One thing to think about SS "Insuance" is that it was never a retirement plan.

For most people the big thing is going to cash flow as thy get older. Yes it is a gamble as to how long you or your better half will live, One way you both die at the same time and it no longer matters the other way one or both of live longer than you thought you would and spend the last years eating cat food and Tuna Helper.

If the average worker pays in the average amount and lives the average life span, the TOTAL amount you will get will be the same but not the monthly cash flow. If I took my SS now it would be about 1,800 a mounth if I wait 48 months it go's to 2,400 a month. My wife is getting hers starting at 63.5 and is getting 983.00 a month, that will go up to 1,200 for a total of 3,600.00 when I turn 66.5 . For us that will be a big jump in cash flow for the rest of our lives. There is no way to know how long you will live or how the Market's will do or how your health will be in ten years so you have to kind of take a gamble and plan arount the worst and hope for the best.

As to leaving stuff to the kid's, we all want to do that to help them out but not having to drag them down becouse of the decisions we make can help too.

[dangitgriff]

The era of the defined benefit plans is effectively over. Even the military is transitioning to defined contribution plans.
I take issue with the SSA reducing benefits while simultaneously increasing the tax rate.
401K’s with a company match is great until the markets tank and half (or more) of your plan is vaporized just before your planned retirement and you are forced to remain in the workforce until your plan regains enough value to hang up your hat.
Anyone today who is 50 or under would be wise to reject the idea of government or corporations paying anything toward your retirement. Also imminently possible is the dollar losing its global reserve currency status, which will really force a downturn in every American’s real wealth and standard of living.
So...what is the safest way to store wealth? Not in 401K’s or any dollar-denominated assets, or any foreign currency not backed by a hard asset, historically gold.
R/Griff

[winelover]

If your 401 account is vaporized, just before retirement, you were invested in the wrong investment options. I retired just before the last big recession. Didn't loose a dime....................because I stayed with FDIC investments, even though they paid the least amount of interest. Yeah, I know of some of my fellow employees losing half of their's. You make your choices and live with the results.

Winelover

[jonp]

Definitely, contribute to employer sponsored saving plans, especially when they match. Max out on your IRA's. Contribute to Roth's. For every $3000, I contributed, I saved $1000 in Federal income tax.......can't beat that with a stick.

Good advice. Put as much as you can into both up to the max or 401k up to max. Slowly as you approach retirement age switch your investments into more conservative stuff that will not take a hit if the market go's south. Right now the market is tanking but my retirement is down less than 6%.

[dangitgriff]

If your 401 account is vaporized, just before retirement, you were invested in the wrong investment options. I retired just before the last big recession. Didn't loose a dime....................because I stayed with FDIC investments, even though they paid the least amount of interest. Yeah, I know of some of my fellow employees losing half of their's. You make your choices and live with the results.

Winelover

No choice available when the company you work for decides what stocks make up their 401K. You are forbidden to make allocations yourself. I am effectively locked out of mine.
There is a downside to that company match, after all.
ETA: Who has a gold IRA? I’d prefer real money over fiat dollars.
R/Griff

[dangitgriff]

Definitely, contribute to employer sponsored saving plans, especially when they match. Max out on your IRA's. Contribute to Roth's. For every $3000, I contributed, I saved $1000 in Federal income tax.......can't beat that with a stick.

Good advice. Put as much as you can into both up to the max or 401k up to max. Slowly as you approach retirement age switch your investments into more conservative stuff that will not take a hit if the market go's south. Right now the market is tanking but my retirement is down less than 6%.

How does that standard investment disclaimer go? “Past performance does not guarantee future earnings.”
Did you know that inflation has eroded over 95% of the dollar’s purchasing power since 1913? What do you think will happen if the Federal Reserve bank turns on the printing presses and shifts them into high gear to juice the markets in which everyone with a pension has a stake? What happens when the dollar crashes and erases that last bit of buying power? When the rest of the world realizes our dollars are truly worthless, when hyperinflation hits our economy, all pensions earned and promised, public or private, paid in USD, will collapse.
If I were allowed to make wise investment decisions with “my” own 401K, I would convert every cent to a physical gold IRA. Can’t get more conservative than that, and we aren’t allowed to do it. There will be many lessons learned in regards to trusting Wall Street bankers with our economy...and many more regrets, to be sure.
R/Griff

[winelover]

No choice available when the company you work for decides what stocks make up their 401K. You are forbidden to make allocations yourself. I am effectively locked out of mine.
There is a downside to that company match, after all.

R/Griff

Never heard of that. Sounds like you work for a Communist employer. I can see where they put stipulations on monies that they matched.............but you should be able to do anything you want with your contributions. The only thing I couldn't do with mine (Fidelity) was withdraw it, till I retired. Which I promptly did. Wife's (Well Fargo) was the same way.

Winelover

[Bmi48219]

Ive been collecting from two Multi-Employer Funded Pensions for over 12 years. One paid full benefits at 55 years of age and 30 years of contributions. Took a 30% hit on the other to go at 55 instead of 60. Plus additional reductions so wife can collect after I check out. Both plans have since restricted early retirement opportunities and are considered “in danger”, around 70-75% funded. If a plan goes under the PGB takes over and your benefits are cut by roughly 80%.
If you’re in a Multi-Employer Pension Fund (most union tradesmen are) you should contact your Senator. Two Senators (Grassley - Alexander) are proposing legislation that will drastically reduce your benefits and charge you additional taxes on the rest.
Most pension plans took serious hits early this century during the banking / financial disaster. Our government fixed it by giving the banks 700 billion of our tax $$$ in bailouts. The banks are doing fine now; but the investors, including pension funds, are “endangered”. Urge your Congressman to help the pension plans with loans like they did with the automakers.
To continue my rant, Social Security as we know it today isn’t what it was intended to be when enacted in 1935. Your Social Security number is supposed to be an ACCOUNT Number, and the money you pay into the Social Security fund is supposed to be YOUR Money. All that changed once politicians realized they could access your Social Security money to buy special interest votes.
As others have said Pension Plans are becoming a thing of the past. Social Security may not vanish completely but the benefits will be cut and/or taxed to nothing for most of us. IRA’s and 401’s are dependent on and influenced by market conditions controlled by others who don’t always have our best interests at heart.
If I was younger and starting out again my retirement plan would focus on hoarding precious metals and insuring them with my 2nd Amendment Rights.

[facetious]

The thing is that precious metals like any money only has value becouse we all agree to give it value. At one time aluminum was worth way more than gold. Now a big bag of flat cans won't by a twelve pack of cheap beer. With all the mager countrys trying to come up with their own digital money how long before gold is no longer the standard of wealth? It my not happen completly in my or your life time but I think gold and such will be just another shiny metal. Even now the push is to go digital, with every thing going to direct deposit and electric transfers at some point cash will be a novelty , the relm of old guy's walking around with their pockets full of coins like a bunch of lepricons with thier gold.

Things change,I can't remember the last time I had to trade a horse for any thing but I sure have traded a lot of cash for stuff. But more and more that cash is in the form of a card.

[jonp]

How does that standard investment disclaimer go? “Past performance does not guarantee future earnings.”
Did you know that inflation has eroded over 95% of the dollar’s purchasing power since 1913? What do you think will happen if the Federal Reserve bank turns on the printing presses and shifts them into high gear to juice the markets in which everyone with a pension has a stake? What happens when the dollar crashes and erases that last bit of buying power? When the rest of the world realizes our dollars are truly worthless, when hyperinflation hits our economy, all pensions earned and promised, public or private, paid in USD, will collapse.
If I were allowed to make wise investment decisions with “my” own 401K, I would convert every cent to a physical gold IRA. Can’t get more conservative than that, and we aren’t allowed to do it. There will be many lessons learned in regards to trusting Wall Street bankers with our economy...and many more regrets, to be sure.
R/Griff

Then stop investing in your 401k and buy gold if that is what you want to do. I've had several 401k's with companies and I have not had one that did not give me a number of options for my money one of which usually involved cash of some type. What else are you going to do with it? Not save or have 100lbs of gold coins? If you would like that then by all means have at it. I have a gold fund for some of my retirement and cash on the side.

[lightman]

I've also never heard of any 401 plan that didn't give the participant options. Sometimes there are no options on the company match. My former plan used company stock for their match. This was ok as the stock usually did well. After a period of time you could sell the stock and choose another option.

[dangitgriff]

Hey, jonp—already own some of the mellow yellow metal, we converted about half our cash sitting in savings earning next to nothing into gold about a year & a half ago, it’s returned 20% already. We are considering buying about 20 pounds of silver as well, because it is due for a ratio reset from between 80:1 to as low as 15:1. It could easily rise to $50/oz or 32:1 at current gold spot.

[dangitgriff]

Hey, lightman—my company offers a way to pull up to 75% of our 401K out to fund a Self Directed Brokerage Account through TD Ameritrade. They don’t make it an easy process, but I did just that, and selected some mining company stocks that have returned 33% in the last 18 months. I’m betting on a major pullback...picking stocks that will benefit from from the upcoming economic crisis.
Physical gold + mining stocks = better protection from recession.
Biggest bubble in history:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200302/7fd246d25ba95a3e94cfcba1cae5bf4a.jpg

[Bmi48219]

You have no control over corporate Boards, Fund managers, Congress, the Federal Reserve, banks or anyone else managing the products you are counting on for your nest egg. And very few of the above named really have anything but their own interests at heart. I have an IRA, a 401, two pensions and a saving account. All of which could become worthless almost overnight. Bitcoin, digital and electronic tender rely on an even more fragile web-based system that will be the first thing to fail in an “adjustment” like the one that happed a century ago.
Gold, and to a lesser extent silver are precious metals because (especially gold) there is a finite amount on this planet and what’s left in an ore state is getting harder to find and process.
For several thousand years gold has been the one holding that never became worthless and while it’s been out-performed for brief periods (I still have a certificate for 300 shares of Enron) it has always increased in value over the long haul.
Only problem with it is you have to physically possess it as Germany recently discovered. Banks have security guards, in the USA we have the 2nd Amendment.

[dtknowles]

I am not sure you could defend yourself if word got around that you had a few hundred grand in gold in your house. I have some gold, silver, copper, brass, lead, wine, tools, guns, ammo, houses, gems, savings bonds, and cash but almost all my assets are just electronic bank/brokerage records. I do have paper annual statements for what that is worth.

I don't fear it right now but there could come a time where I fear that all accounts could be frozen and confiscated. There might be a time where 40 pounds of gold coins hidden inside lead ingots might be a thing to have. The thing is how to get your hands on a lot of gold coins without leaving a trail. I guess one or two at a time over a period of a lot of years but even $200,000 dollars in gold coins is a bunch of coins. You would not want to buy them all in the same place. That would bring attention to you. You would not want to do it online as there would be a record that an AI could pull together.

So lets say you are going to buy one gold coin a week and you are going to spread your purchases around how do you disguise the bank account withdrawals? Really how do you explain taking $1500 in cash out of your bank each week? I guess you could have multiple bank accounts and take smaller withdrawals from each still there is an electronic record.

Man, it would be ideal to have a business that deals in cash or money orders or better yet where people pay you in gold or silver.

The problem with silver is $200,000 in silver weighs 700 pounds or so.

Tim

[dangitgriff]

$200K in gold is 125 pounds at $1600/oz.
Pretty sad state of affairs when a supposedly free citizen in a supposedly free nation cannot freely access his own money from a private bank.
If we experience failure, we deserve it, as we’ve certainly done nothing to prevent it.

[dtknowles]

$200K in gold is 125 pounds at $1600/oz.
Pretty sad state of affairs when a supposedly free citizen in a supposedly free nation cannot freely access his own money from a private bank.
If we experience failure, we deserve it, as we’ve certainly done nothing to prevent it.

Your math is wrong 125 pounds x 14.58 troy ounces per pound is 1,822.5 ounces times $1,600 per ounce equals $2.9 million. $200,000 is only 125 ounces not pounds. About 8.5 pounds My 40 pounds is more like a cool million.

[dtknowles]

$200K in gold is 125 pounds at $1600/oz.
Pretty sad state of affairs when a supposedly free citizen in a supposedly free nation cannot freely access his own money from a private bank.
If we experience failure, we deserve it, as we’ve certainly done nothing to prevent it.

Many countries have limited peoples access to their bank accounts. The latest is I think Lebanon and before that it was Greece. There have been others as well.

Tim

[brassrat]

In addition to 100% of my contributed pension going to the painters union due to a legal change where they could keep someone, under worked, and for 19 yrs and unvested; I had this display pop up on a scan of some purchased lead. I have other pics too. I thought I found some old guys, hidden, stash of AU..Gold.257865

[alamogunr]

Lots of information here but also lots of misinformation. I've been retired almost 14 years, no pension other than SS. I also had a 401K which I converted to an IRA and a lump sum pension that I also rolled into the IRA. After 14 years retired and approx. 6 years of only touching the IRA for large purchases and 8 years taking MRD's (Minimum Required Distribution) amounting to about a quarter million $ total, I still have almost as much in the IRA as I had when I first rolled it over. Such is what Fixed Income for interest and Equities(Stock Mutual Funds) for growth will do for you. Just have to be tuff and ignore the bumps along the way.

Many that I worked with would not join the 401K because they wanted all their salary for immediate wants. They also didn't understand the benefit of investing before taxes even though they would have to pay taxes after retirement when the money was withdrawn from the IRA. We didn't have Roth 401K's back then. Wish they had.

[fcvan]

I went to work in Law Enforcement for a large state agency when I was 22 1/2. As such, I never worked and paid into SS to attain 40 quarters. I knew it, and have never expected SS. I was able to retire at 50 with 28 years, 30 being maximum. Due to pension reform, newer employees do not have the same retirement numbers as those hired decades ago. Even so, I signed up for a job where I would have to work until I was 60 to get a full pension of %75, whereas it increased to %90 after 30.

I retired when I could largely because I needed to be home. Youngest graduating in another state, oldest bed rested with her second child. After the youngest moved out, my wife asked if I was going to get 'my last 2 years.' I did, and ended up staying 3 1/2 years. Between raises and such, my retirement was bumped quite a great deal. That, and I was working a ton of overtime while back at work. No car loans, no college loans, no medical bills, just mortgages in 2 states, paid for land in a third.

Blessed? I feel that way. I loved my job and how I was able to raise my girls and meet the family's needs. I felt guilty the first time I retired, at 50, when my older brothers were still working. Older brother also worked in law enforcement, oldest in construction. Oldest brother is still working, other brother and I both retired, me again.

I invested in a 401K program 25 years ago and managed my accounts. Simple strategy, buy low, sell high, you know the drill. Before 2008, I was averaging between %1.5 and %3.0 growth per month. It worked well until some account changes made such transactions more complicated. Without much detail, I moved my accounts to a low yield cash account before the 2008 elections. When friends lost many tens of thousands, mine did not. Stagnant beats loss. My main investment strategy has always been real estate, aside from a 401K. Heck, I owned my own home by the time I was 30. First wife got the house, I kept my retirement. I still have my retirement, she no longer owns a house free and clear. Life is an experience, learn from it, don't make the same mistakes as others.

2 1/2 years into retirement again, and I'm looking at several new investments. My wife and I are comfortable, but are looking at developing more to leave as legacy to the girls and their families. To quote my mom 'If I had known grandkids were this much fun, I would have had them first.' Mom and dad will both be 81 this year, and if family history holds true we will still have decades. Long line of long lines, so to speak. Still, every day is precious, not to be wasted but lived.

Money isn't everything, security of finances is invaluable. If you don't have much, but you have enough to be happy, you are so far ahead of anyone who fears the next major health scare, a blown water heater, new tires, the next grocery bill, is not secure in their quality of life. Can I go out and work a new job? Yup, I'm still young and my wife younger. Do I need to? No, but I could. Heck, I never worked fast food in high school or college. Would I if needs be? You bet, and would probably enjoy asking 'do you want fries with that?'

[winelover]

We didn't have Roth 401K's back then. Wish they had.

There is nothing stopping you from converting your IRA to a Roth, even when retired. Pay taxes once, and never again. I've been doing just that for the last five years..............with the thought of lowering my Minimum Required Distributions................which will begin in 2 1/2 years.

Winelover

[dangitgriff]

Your math is wrong 125 pounds x 14.58 troy ounces per pound is 1,822.5 ounces times $1,600 per ounce equals $2.9 million. $200,000 is only 125 ounces not pounds. About 8.5 pounds My 40 pounds is more like a cool million.

You’re correct, 125 imperial ounces and 7.8125 imperial pounds. Typo...
Wish I had 125 pounds!

[dangitgriff]

What will all of those who are now retired and drawing pensions and who have commented here do to make ends meet if the financial institutions making your retirement payouts go bankrupt?
I’m following the developments in California’s CALPERS pension system and other states that are in a pension crisis, and it is looking ugly.

[lightman]

What will all of those who are now retired and drawing pensions and who have commented here do to make ends meet if the financial institutions making your retirement payouts go bankrupt?
I’m following the developments in California’s CALPERS pension system and other states that are in a pension crisis, and it is looking ugly.

Thats a good question and a concern for many. When I started working I had 2 goals. One was to work long enough that my pension would support us. The other was to save enough that our savings and investments would support us. Like a plan A and a Plan B. And I think I did. Then there is SS. If we were to loose one of the three we would be ok. If we were to loose 2 of the three we would survive. And I would find a job that I could do if it became necessary.

It should be a crime for what some are doing to others pension plans. And it should be a crime for what our government has done to SS.

[alamogunr]

There is nothing stopping you from converting your IRA to a Roth, even when retired. Pay taxes once, and never again. I've been doing just that for the last five years..............with the thought of lowering my Minimum Required Distributions................which will begin in 2 1/2 years.

Winelover

You need to check that. My Fidelity advisor tells me, and I have checked it separately, that you have to have earned income in order to convert to a Roth. I did that as long as I was working and managed to get a substantial amount before it was cut off. I just let it sit there in a Fidelity managed account. Grown quite a bit. It is earmarked for passing on to heirs since they won't owe taxes on it.

[facetious]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/am-i-too-old-to-take-money-from-my-ira-and-put-it-into-a-roth-2020-03-03?mod=retirement

I started to move taxable savings to our Roth's as soon as I could after thy first let you covert your IRA's. For now I am just going to draw from my IRA rollover from my 401-K and just use the Roth for some of the bigger one time payments like p-tax's and home/car insuance. For now we are trying to keep ajusted gross income down till we are both on Medicare for our ACA health care subsidie . That will be 16 months for her and 28 months for me. After that we will look in to pulling more out of the taxable IRA and move some to the Roths.

After thy passed the Secure Act it changed alot of the estate planing that people had done. After thy got rid of the strech IRA option thy are now recommending that you move as much as you can to your Roth's ( one for you and one for your wife ). The money you leve will still have to be pulled out over ten years but the funds from your Roth's will not be taxable, funds from taxable accounts will allso have to be pulled out over ten years but will have to be clamed as taxable income witch could put them in to a higher tax bracket for ten years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SECURE_Act_of_2019

https://www.kiplinger.com/article/retirement/T032-C032-S014-2-ira-changes-to-consider-right-for-secure-act.html

[jonp]

$200K in gold is 125 pounds at $1600/oz.
Pretty sad state of affairs when a supposedly free citizen in a supposedly free nation cannot freely access his own money from a private bank.
If we experience failure, we deserve it, as we’ve certainly done nothing to prevent it.

For a meltdown where a depression or worse might happen, all the gold in the world won't feed you if food is scarce.

[dkf]

For a meltdown where a depression or worse might happen, all the gold in the world won't feed you if food is scarce.

Still has a better chance than a fiat currency issued by a bankrupt government.

[jonp]

Still has a better chance than a fiat currency issued by a bankrupt government.

No argument there about its worth vs fiat currency

[dangitgriff]

For a meltdown where a depression or worse might happen, all the gold in the world won't feed you if food is scarce.

You’re right, but the point is wealth preservation. One ounce of gold is $1673 (as of today), easily stored and concealable, and out of the hands of bankers and government. Guns, ammo and reloading components are valuable, but require much more storage capacity for the purpose of wealth preservation.
It’s good to have both, but I would prefer physically-held gold over anything else if I were wealthy and ultra conservative and distrustful of governments and banks.
Anybody want to buy my yacht? [emoji1783]

[dangitgriff]

CalPers pension fund had 64 billion dollars evaporate into thin air, so far.
Anybody else have a pension likewise tied to the markets?

[alamogunr]

CalPers pension fund had 64 billion dollars evaporate into thin air, so far.
Anybody else have a pension likewise tied to the markets?

Almost everybody that has a pension, especially retired public employees.

[dangitgriff]

Almost everybody that has a pension, especially retired public employees.

Most unwise.
Stand by for significant reductions in those benefits, including and especially Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.
There’s no such thing as a free lunch.

[facetious]

Now for a tail of pure dumb luck . I retired at the end of last year and had set up a IRA rollover account to move my 401 in to. To move it thy told me thy turn every thing to cash and send the check to your new IRA custodian and it would take about 14 days. After the 14 days my guy called to tell me that the check had not showed up so I was reading him the conformtion statment when he told me that the address was wrong, that there was one to many numbers and to give them a call. I called and talked to them and thy put a stop on it and said thy would resend the check but it would be about two weeks to clear the last one and 14 days to get the new one. In this time every thing drops and my 401 is sitting off in limbo some where, all in cash. When it showed up I talked to my guy who put it all in cash so no loss. The last time in 08 any one who didn't lose their um head tripled their money and I think that this could be another one of thouse " once in a life time" money makers. Heck if it just doubles I could aford to live to 120.

"CalPers pension fund had 64 billion dollars evaporate into thin air, so far."
Alot of money but how much as a %? And what do thy think the bounce will be?

Remember think ten year from now .

[alamogunr]

Well said, Facetious. The only way to invest is to do as you said. "Think ten years from now".

I doubt that any one in management at CalPers is panicking. They wouldn't have the jobs they have if they lost their heads every time the market hit a pot hole.

Congratulations on your good fortune(dumb luck).

[Duckiller]

CAL Pers is in trouble because the employers didn't put enough money in. The good citizens of California will make up any shortages in CAL Pers funds. Retirement funds created by our state legislature tend to have first call on all tax dollars.

[dangitgriff]

I hope I’m wrong, but...[emoji848]
Ten years from now the U.S. dollar will be worth less than nothing due to inflation/hyperinflation resulting from the “unlimited” amount of currency creation by the federal reserve. Every fiat currency ever created has, historically, failed due to hyperinflation. The U.S. dollar is no exception and by the end of this decade no global institution will see it as a safe haven asset. A new economic order is all but guaranteed by the D.C. dingbats. They’re attempting to inflate another bubble to fix the one that just popped—which they also created.
Not sure about the percentages of the CalPers train wreck, but the markets went down 30 percent and I suspect it will be getting worse after a short-term fake rebound. Illinois is no better off. There are several other states with bankrupt pension funds but I can’t remember which ones off the top of my head. Just like the nation’s government in D.C., all of them have a spending problem, not a revenue problem.
Like I said, I sincerely hope that I am wrong about this. One thing I am 100 percent certain of, however, is that you cannot print your way to prosperity by creating even more debt to pay off your current debt.
Dangerous waters lie ahead and we are steaming right into them, oblivious to the laws of economics which always return an errant country to the mean, without exception.
R/Griff

[Handloader109]

I've been both lucky and unlucky over the years. Second job had a pension for a few years, added a 401k. 9 years and 9 months into job, company sold and I ended up with a $450 a month pension eligibility at 65..... would have been double or so in 3 short months, and would have been eligible for it at about 50.

A few years ago they allowed early start at reduced amount of $300. figured 8 or so yrs early was worth it.

I lost a lot of 401k money in 90s tech bubble. and no growth in the 08. good bit down now, but I've got everything paid off, and we'll be fine. I suggest moving any pension money out when you can. And I'd hate to depend on one source

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[fcvan]

CalPers since 1984, retired LEO so a pretty good pension. Yes, I have seen the ups and downs regarding employee percentage of contribution. When they upped it, we also got a matching pay increase to make up the increase. Paycheck didn't go up but a raise is a raise. During each fiscal year, actuarial tables set the employer contribution for the next year. At one time, the employer contribution was 0 as the fund was solvent. Californians pleaded for the state to take that excess and pay down the debt but that never happened. When things tanked we said 'I told you so.' One Governor tried to rob 8B from the fund, courts said 'put it back' and they did. CalPers is not controlled by the state as much as many think.

Folks complained about pensions, and so pensions were reformed. Older employees were locked into better percentages and retirement age, newer employees got kind of hosed. Example: when I started out was 2% at 55, max of 75%. When they couldn't afford to give us raises they improved the formula to 3% at 50, max of 90%. For the new guys it is now 2.5% at 57, max of 75%, still a good pension.

One of the reasons things improved was a study showing that first responder folks who retired at 55 typically died within 27 months, but at 50, they lived 54 months. Most employees were still collecting their contributions and hadn't dipped into the employer contribution, a good deal for them.

Many of the older guys I worked with did die early. It seemed like everybody smoked when I started. I don't, except for the occasional fine cigars my wife would buy for me. You don't inhale. The state started looking at employee wellness and smoking cessation was covered. We started receiving physical fitness pay which required an annual physical and a physical abilities test. Guess what, people got healthier, less cheeseburgers and more chicken salads.

The new guys coming in already had healthier lifestyles and so better life expectancy. The two big killers became alcohol and suicide due to job stress. The state started a program of peer counselors or crisis counselors for the employees. Confidential, discrete, helpful, a program I joined and I participated in heavily. I had many 'sessions' sometimes in the middle of the night at my front door, or in the middle of a grocery aisle. The minute someone asked for help 2 things happened 1) they got help, and 2) I went on the clock. I didn't go on the clock for everything and I bought the coffee at the diner or made some at the house. I still volunteer on crisis hotlines from time to time. Some careers and lives were saved, some not so much.

Saving the best for last, I loved training the new guys, both work related stuff and the 401k program. Sometimes I would start that conversation sounding like an old evangelist 'My brother/sister, have you heard the good news about the glory of Deferred Compensation!' Then I would run down the numbers, especially about how folks who started as soon as they were eligible, maxed out their contribution, and retired with more than 1M in their account, and that 12 to 14 employees a month were retiring from the million dollar club. All the other fun things like taking 1/2 of every pay raise and putting it in DC, still getting their raises (7 years to reach senior pay) and never missing the money. I also taught them how to work their money through careful fund placement. When I showed I was earning between 1.5 to 3% each month, and how easy that was, I saw widened eyes.

One of the best part of DC was you could use your money by borrowing from your fund. Yes, you have to pay it back, but the interest you paid was paid to you. Never buy a new vehicle until you can actually afford it, build your credit score, drive that older car from college days (or wherever you came from) save up and pay cash.

If you could hold out until you have enough in DC, cool, just don't do what so many others did, run out with your fancy new paycheck and buy a fancy new car/truck with a loan through the dealership, get screwed on interest, and have no money left over after the bills to do anything. But, you'd have a nice 60k truck sitting in the lot getting weathered and door dinged while you were on the job. I never bought a vehicle with a DC loan but if I did the interest would be 6% or less, paid to myself. I did buy 5 acres in OR, up in the mountains. Land and houses were my main investments, CA North Coast (think Redwoods) and in the Rockies. Oh, and the DC money is still there. The 60k truck my wife bought for me was in cash from the excess vacation/holiday/comp time I had accrued before retiring. I taught the new guys about that as well.

[dangitgriff]

3% APR is only 1/3 the rate of inflation. Forbes reports you need 3-5 million dollars in today’s money to get you through 20 years of retirement. I can’t imagine 1 million dollars for retirement in California would last very long. I can imagine, however, the incentive to leave for cheaper pastures.
R/Griff

[facetious]

I question how you came up with the 3% being 1/3 the rate of inflation but have read alot about how much you will need to retire and have seen where you will need 1 million and up depending where you live and the life style you want. Much of this comes from the 4% rule. The 4% rule says that you should be able to draw 4% each year increasing by the rate of inflation and have your money last 30 years. I don't remember if it was a 60/40 or 50/50 stock bond split. At 4% 1 million would pay 40,000 a year 3 million would be 120,000 a year. Now remember these are averages, there are years that do better you have a little more to play with, some years you may want to pull a little less.

The thing is that those numbers look big and sell magazins and news papers. But thy often thy are using totol cost of living. But if you look deeper thy are not including other income you my have. Also taxs are not the same everywhere.

Take your totol cost for the year and subtract any income from SS, pentions or things like rental income and devide by 4% to get the amount you will need . Again this will just get you close to what you will need and you my want refigure each year as things in your life change.

Here is a site that I liked to play with when I was trying to see if I could call it quits.
https://firecalc.com/

[dangitgriff]

Facetious—
If you use the data the government gives you, you will (generally) not get accurate estimates or projections for anything, just the economic trends.
The real inflation rate is widely understood to be at least 2X the official rate, and most likely at least 3X, using all the data the government purposely omits from their calculations for the sole purpose of minimizing increased outlays to their welfare programs tied to the “official” CPI.

https://youtu.be/2NxxW3kKAzM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200329/c4a267edd0677ec99e640aa31d30b230.jpg

[facetious]

Looking at your chart I can see where you are coming from and I agree that at some point intrest rates are going to have to start to go up . Every country is trying to juice their economys but can only do so much. The question is can thy do it with out over shooting and pushing us into hyperinflation.

That is part of the problem the average person dosn't have control over so many things and have to try and plan a future based on "the best infomation we can find, that turns out to be wrong." This hard enough for people that are interested in this kind of stuff. There are alot that don't care or can't comprehend this stuff.

I allso changed my last post to say "3 million not 3 years" is 120,000 a year.

[dangitgriff]

I agree, the average American doesn’t understand basics economics and it’s no wonder they don’t due to all the misinformation and misdirection they’re getting from the gov’t & MSM.
Bottom line, pensions are in terrible jeopardy of going bankrupt due to the actions of our government in conjunction with the Federal Reserve and their subordinate central banks.
All their anger and resentment should rightfully be directed toward their local, state and federal government representatives and the Federal Reserve, in equal measure.
R/Griff

[facetious]

It seems like all the information comes with a agenda. All you can do is try figure out witch ones help you more than hurt. The world is run by weasels.

[David2011]

If your 401 account is vaporized, just before retirement, you were invested in the wrong investment options. I retired just before the last big recession. Didn't loose a dime....................because I stayed with FDIC investments, even though they paid the least amount of interest. Yeah, I know of some of my fellow employees losing half of their's. You make your choices and live with the results.

Winelover

Not everyone gets to choose where their IRA is invested. I was with a Fortune 100 company where our returns were half of what guru Dave Ramsey said we should be getting. We had choices within the plan but not OUR choices; just the choices the plan managers said we could have. Fortunately, retired now.

[Frosty Boolit]

There might be a time where 40 pounds of gold coins hidden inside lead ingots might be a thing to have.

That would be about the same time that the lead becomes more valuable than the gold

[dangitgriff]

New development regarding 401K’s, withdrawal penalties waived:

https://fortune.com/2020/03/27/401k-withdrawal-penalties-waived-retirement-accounts-loans-retirees-coronavirus-stimulus-package-cares-act-relief-bill/?fbclid=IwAR11yOs4Ab1y9xoC5cE_7f5m5vsHIpjJNecI7Cm7 29tN0ZgPTV4EocbZkTQ

[GONRA]

GONRA retired in 2001. "Good Olde Vested Pension/401k" days. (Lucked out!!!)
Then, purchased 100+ acres to shoot Class 3 stuff on. Lateron, SHALE NATURAL GAS "DISCOVERED" on the land! (Lucked out again!)

Initially, "Natural Gas Royalty/Mailbox $$$" paid off my 100+ acres purchase $$$ + much more. (BUT, can't luck out forever! Fizzling out these days..... Oh Well.)

[facetious]

New development regarding 401K’s, withdrawal penalties waived:

https://fortune.com/2020/03/27/401k-withdrawal-penalties-waived-retirement-accounts-loans-retirees-coronavirus-stimulus-package-cares-act-relief-bill/?fbclid=IwAR11yOs4Ab1y9xoC5cE_7f5m5vsHIpjJNecI7Cm7 29tN0ZgPTV4EocbZkTQ

Like I said "The world is run by weasels."

How many people will see "withdrawal penalties waived" and think tax free! After reading about this I have mixed feelings about it. If used right it could be a great help to alot of people . But the 100,000.00 limit to me sounds like a tax trap. This is not free money, it is a lone that you have to pay back to your self over three years. If not payed back it will be considered income and taxed at your highest tax bracket.

If you are off work for a few months and know that at some point you will be going back to work and pull out 10,000.00 to cover bills you will have to have about 277.00 taken out of your pay each month for 36 months. If both you and a spouse are working this may be a good way to deal with a problem. Not free or cheap but could be done.

But some one is going to think this is tax free and pull the whole 100,000.00 out if thy even have that much in their 401 with out thinking that to pay it back in three years it will take about 2777.00 a month for 36 months. And this is on top of what you need to live on.

I read some were that there is some thing like 30 TRLLION $'s sitting in retirement savings that will not be taxed for a long time and or taxed over a long time. The thing is thy would like to use some of that tax money now. So thy come up with a plan to make it easer for you to get to your retirement saving by waiveing the 10% penalties so you can get the money you need , like I said it could help alot of people who plan it out and know thy will have it payed off in time.

But you can bet somewere thy have it figured out how many will take out more than thy can pay back in time and end up getting taxed on it on top of their other income putting it into a higer tax rate. This is the tax trap. Thy plan to pay for this bat bug thing by setting the people who are the most desperate and or most gullible to fail. Then every one who uses it the right way or who are just watching will blame the ones who get screwed the most for not knowing what thy are doing.

All so , as there is no tax for three years, who ever is in the White House will get the credit for all the new tax income.

On top of the whole thing thy are going to "let" you do it after you have just lost 30% of your savings so you have less left to grow when things start going up knocking the snot our of your retirement plans meaning more people having to work longer and and spending less time collecting benifits.

Like I said "The world is run by weasels."

Well this turned in to a rant , sorry about that. I guess I will take off my foil hat and go to bed.

[dangitgriff]

Hey, facetious, I agree with you, and will add that people still believe the money they tuck away in their 401K’s is actually theirs...it isn’t! Most people never have control of that account even in retirement. You get what the gov’t tells you you can have. They force you to make taxable withdrawals at age 70.
Think about the common employer match: they put in half what you do, up to a certain percentage (with my company, it’s 8%). When the market crashes 50%, which half is left in your 401K, theirs or yours? [emoji848][emoji15]
Either way, the employer match is really just insurance against market losses. What riles me is the employer always claims their contributions are part of your compensation, which justifies a lower salary. Genius!
Anyway, back to the 401k penalty-free loans. I’m going to take enough out to pay off my mortgage, we’ve already saved 2/3rds of the balance which is in the five-figure range. A 3-year interest-free loan on the borrowed amount is a no-brainer for us, as we want to be mortgage-free ASAP considering this decade is shaping up to be one for the record books, economically, for the U.S.
Deflation, followed by inflation, followed by hyperinflation and the collapse of the U.S. dollar.
R/Griff

[winelover]

FWIW, I recently received a letter from one of my banks stating the new start RMD is now 72 for those not yet 70 as of January 2019.

Winelover

[snowwolfe]

Hey, facetious, I agree with you, and will add that people still believe the money they tuck away in their 401K’s is actually theirs...it isn’t! Most people never have control of that account even in retirement. You get what the gov’t tells you you can have. They force you to make taxable withdrawals at age 70.
Think about the common employer match: they put in half what you do, up to a certain percentage (with my company, it’s 8%). When the market crashes 50%, which half is left in your 401K, theirs or yours? [emoji848][emoji15]
Either way, the employer match is really just insurance against market losses. What riles me is the employer always claims their contributions are part of your compensation, which justifies a lower salary. Genius!
Anyway, back to the 401k penalty-free loans. I’m going to take enough out to pay off my mortgage, we’ve already saved 2/3rds of the balance which is in the five-figure range. A 3-year interest-free loan on the borrowed amount is a no-brainer for us, as we want to be mortgage-free ASAP considering this decade is shaping up to be one for the record books, economically, for the U.S.
Deflation, followed by inflation, followed by hyperinflation and the collapse of the U.S. dollar.
R/Griff

If it isn’t your money then how are you taking it out of the account and using it to pay down your mortgage?

[facetious]

D/Griff: There is nothing wrong with what you are doing. Going in to this with eyes wide open and a plan is what these kind of financial tools are for. The same with 401-k's, IRA's and all the other saving plans.

The thing that gets me is how many people I have known that are in savings plans that don't want to take the time to learn how thy work. Thy don't want to learn about investing or how to manage it. And that are just the ones that got in to the 401-k much less a ROTH on the side. When I retired last year out of the 34 guys left there was 15 guys at most left that had a 401. The rest seem to think evey thing is a trick to take your money and in away it is but you still have to look at the bottom line and concentrate on your part. Some can not grasp the consept of deferred compensation with deffered compond growth or that when you take it out that it is the same as getting a pay check and have to pay tax on it. Try to explane a systematic withdrawal plan and why you don't just take it all a once, ( I mean just think of all the stuff you could do with all that money!) I stopped trying to talk about this kind of stuff with people years ago , most of the time their jaw drops and thy just stair at you like you just lobotomized them.


https://fortune.com/2020/04/01/what-to-do-with-401k-withdrawal-no-penalty-distribution-cares-act-should-i-keep-contributing-limits-match-stimulus-faq/

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?tab=wm&ogbl#inbox/FMfcgxwHMZSBbbJVcDMCGJVJQNjNcFdM

[dangitgriff]

Exactly right, snow...it belongs to them, I’m taking advantage of the relaxed rules and using their money interest-free for a defined period to pay off an asset that we plan to turn into a cash-positive rental within five years, which we will own outright. The government itself takes advantage of historically low interest rates to refinance our national debt; more Americans should take a page out of their playbook and do the same.
I don’t believe there will be much of a Social Security safety net left by the end of this decade, so I am attempting to replace it with other income. You have to plan ahead, and I don’t plan to be working until I die, which is exactly what most American workers are now facing thanks to a profligate and idiotic Federal Reserve, which appears intent on becoming a commercial bank judging by the assets they’re purchasing and adding to their balance sheet, which will swell to at least 10 trillion dollars by the end of their so-called stimulus plan. That currency inflation will be felt in consumer prices sooner rather than later. The dollar’s purchasing power will slide and the value of everyone’s PENSION PLANS will go along for the ride.
R/Griff

[dangitgriff]

Facetious: the pooch got screwed when American companies transitioned their pension systems from “defined benefit” plans to “defined contribution” plans.
Now, only GOVERNMENT employees have defined benefit plans, financed by socializing the costs across all taxpayers, themselves included (a.k.a. socialism).
The rest of us, well, we have shouldered more of the cost of their benefits as well as our own, especially in health insurance plans, over the last 4 decades. And here we are, private households largely insolvent because their plan A was social security and other government transfer (a.k.a. welfare) programs.
Apparently, we aren’t taxed enough, at least that is what government bureaucrats will claim as the bankruptcies start piling up this coming decade. Stand by for social upheaval when a critical mass of Americans finally wake up and face reality...we are living in a corrupt, bankrupt police state.
R/Griff

[dangitgriff]

Pensions are featured prominently in this very informative video:

https://youtu.be/E7r7nTVmdLc