Converted to nitro piston springer zero distance help

[Tripplebeards]

I know most rifles now come with the nitro pistons installed from factory but it was an $89 up sell when I bough it in January 2010 from PyramydAir. I had to get the fastest rated 22 springer at the time and the Walther talon 22 seemed to be it. When I received the 10’ long gun that weighed similar to a 50cal BMG with a trigger pulled that weighed more than the gun it basically has sat in the corner most of its life.


I just replaced my optic and replaced my adjustment screws in my Quattro trigger along with a lighter return spring. My trigger went from a good 7 plus lbs, if I had to guess because my trigger scale won’t pull that heavy, to a crisp 20 oz. I also adjusted it to completely eliminate the first stage so it brakes like my centerfire Timneys. I sighted it in before the trigger adjustments inside my 25’ garage. I have it dead center to a hair high at this distance. My plan is to get out in this lovely weather we are having and zero it in at 25 yards. I’ve owned the rifle for 10 years now and have barely used it because of the crappy Quattro trigger as it was like pulling a stick pig out of the mud until today! When I first ordered the rifle through PyramydAir back in 2010 they offered a nitro piston install for $89.oo which took me to $299.00 I see after 10 years they come with it installed now ( hatsan 125 )and for less money...go figure. I must have bought $60 worth of pellets to try and never opened most up to try as the trigger was so poor imo it would not have made much difference until now. I Remember the predator pellets and crow magnums were pretty tight groupers when testing across the yard years ago. I dropped a raccoon at 30 yards that never moved with a right behind the eye shot placement with the predator pellets years ago. Bet I haven’t shot this gun in a half decade or longer. I lubed it up and removed some rust it accumulated from sitting in my controlled environment house. When I adjusted the trigger I made a homemade pellet trap out of two pieces of 3/4” treated ply wood. From about 6’ away I was getting complete pass throughs on the first piece and a few pellets stuck into the second piece...so imo it still has good power even after sitting all these years. I have three different Diabolo pellets to try yet out of it. I got got sucked into the Prometheus and similar penetration pellets. Most of those won’t hit minute of pop can past 10 yards. I can tell you this rifle has more felt recoil that fells like it’s double my 22WMR and pretty loud fro an air gun to boot. It’s to the point I almost want to wear ear protection when shooting it.

Anyways back to my original question. What would be a good zeroing distance fo this rifle? I’m guessing 25 yards or so? If I do sight it in at 25 yards how will I hit t 10 yards?

[georgerkahn]

I had taken Manhattan and similar fat, wet, 'phone books, and shot them at what I reckoned would be my maximum critter range to see what the pellet might do -- e.g., bounce off, travel part way, or -- all the way through the 'phone book. The airgun I was using propelled (Diabolo) pellets about 1/3rd to 1/2 through them; I was happy. I had my rifle in a rest, and fired three more pellets to ascertain they did group, with three in maybe a 4" circle, with one flyer low and to the left -- perhaps another inch. I, too, was curious re trajectory, and one of my regular (to this day ;) ) "targets" are tall cardboard boxes, so -- at a pretty level range, I placed a cardboard box 1/2-way betwixt rifle and the target. VERY "unscientific" -- I sighted across a 24" carpenter's spirit level to hopefully have air rifle, this cardboard, and end target on same plane. Four more shots showed (I should've circled original shots -- oops) that from the first four; and, while similar -- the new group was probably between but one and two inches higher. Nothing scientific to report here -- I traded that air rifle shortly thereafter -- both too much work to cock, and too noisy as well -- but, perhaps my "experimentation" might give you some possible try thoughts?
BEST!
geo

[W.R.Buchanan]

3B: Typically you sight in a .177 or .22 cal Springer at 10M and it will be 1 to 1.5" high at 20 and 30M, and dead on again at 40M. Mid range is 25M. It works like this on all 4 of my Weihrauch guns.

My two .177's are Weihrauch HW35's, and the .22's are an HW77 and a HW80 (or Beeman R1) depending on how you look at it. The R1 will shoot much heavier Pellets over the same trajectory as the other guns shoot lighter pellets. I have some JSB pellets that are 26 gr and I have shot them out to 100 yards at a Rimfire silhouette shoot, with the sun behind me I could see the pellets in flight and the trajectory at 100 yards was not flat. But once I got the holdover figured out I could hit 100 yard Rams with every shot. (off a rest) The gun is a beast, and I have to cock it with my right arm as my left isn't strong enough.

90% of my Airgun shooting is done at 10M in my shop so I tend to sight the guns in there, but the down range sight points are the same for all but the R1. With the heavy pellets it is the same as the other guns but with lighter pellets the trajectory flattens out a bit more.

Randy

[Tripplebeards]

Thanks Rany! That was the info I was looking for. I’m just debating since my average shot will probably be 25 yards to just zero it a little further once I get out of the house with it. It’s 0° right now and I really don’t feel like sitting at a bench shooting a BB gun.lol here’s the target I shot inside my 25 ft.² garage. I got it sighted in and took two shots at the bull’s-eye and then took another shot at the tippy top of the diamond so I pretty much have zero down with predator pellets at close range. It was zeroed with the heavy trigger pull before any adjustment.

https://i.imgur.com/NGm564r.jpg

Here is the $27.99 tasco targeter varminter 2.5x10 optic I picked up new off of eBay last week and mounted it up. I made sure to use blue Loctite and spray 3M77 inside the scope rings before I mounted it up. I know the recoil on this gun vibrated my old optic loose at one time. I found the scope stop and screw laying on the floor in my back room next to the gun the other day before a mounted up the new scope. Glad I found it because Hatsan wanted 10 bucks for a new scope stop plus shipping...I would have made one for that. I made sure to put a lot of blue Loctite on the scope stop screw before I installed it and let it sit for a day. I can’t believe those 26 grains pellets stabilizing your gun Randy. But then again all I’ve done is read that anything over 25 grains supposedly doesn’t stabilize... I’ve never tried it for myself so it’s just all reading. I wanted to try those exact monsters and h&n rabbit pellets but from what I read they’re meant for PCP guns that shoot a lot faster and won’t stabilize. I think the heaviest I have are the Diablos at 18 grains but I haven’t tried them yet. I have three different Diablos but I have an opened up the tins weighing 13, 15, and 18 grains I’ll have to see how they group.

https://i.imgur.com/OUKBUDC.jpg

It’s basically like having a new gun since I adjusted the trigger from 10 lbs to 20oz. I maybe shot the gun 50 or 60 times tops 10 years ago and I bought it and it’s in the corner ever Since. Just wish I would’ve got a Woodstock but I don’t think they were available at the time. I really like my cheap Tasco! It’s leaps and bounds over my 3x9 Optima (that came with the gun) for clarity and brightness. The picture of the gun was before I did the trigger work the other day. You can see the factory adjustment screws in black that are bottomed out on the Trigger. The new ones are silver in about a quarter inch longer so they protrude a little but do not get in the way of my finger. I can’t wait to get it out and shoot it with that light trigger. Now I know when I miss it’s on me.... I mean still on me with a lighter trigger just a lot less chance to flinch from not yanking. My rifle is a beast to cock as well. I think when I bought it at the time Walther advertised it was close to 30 lbs cocking force.

You would think because my rifle is almost as fast as a 22lr it would shoot a little flatter?

[W.R.Buchanan]

3B: my HW77 won't stabilize those pellets, but the R1 will, as the speed is up near 650 fps. The 18 gr JSB's are what I shoot most in the R1 and the HW77 along with H&N Match Wadcutters which are my favorite pellets in all my guns. Been shooting them since my first gun and only started shooting others when I found out about Pyramyd Air about 10 years ago. They have every pellet known to man!

All my guns shoot either the H&N Match or JSB Exacts best. everything else is a little looser, but nothing is that bad. My guns are not super finicky, but certain pellets are slightly more accurate than the really cheap ones. I gave up on Crossman Pellets in 1975 as they looked like some one had take a strip of lead rod and used side cutters to cut the pellets off. The new ones aren't much better.

Walmart is not teh best source for air gun ammo.

What I see in your target should be good out to 40 yards, but you won't know exactly until you shoot it at all the distances and record all the results. This won't take but an hour some afternoon and once you are done you won't have to do it again,and you'll know exactly where to hold at any normal distance. .

I know you are finicky about your guns, and if you treat this one the same way, it will provide a lot of shooting practice for almost nothing in costs. I can guarantee that you will never be able to out shoot that gun. I've been trying for 45 years and haven't gotten there yet. I got close once in 1979 but it has been downhill ever since.

Randy

[Tripplebeards]

Lol. I appreciate it’s good to hear. BTW I got my Ruger 450BM scout back about two weeks ago. Ruger went through and refinished it one more time and it looks like it belongs in a show room. It looks so nice I’m afraid to shoot it. I messaged Bluejay and he was talking about trying to get a mold made for the 450 BM that has almost a completely pointed nose for reliable feeding so I’m waiting to put my name in for that one one.

I think I ordered 60 bucks worth of pellets about a month after I bought the gun through pyramid air when they had the buy three get the fourth free or fourth or fifth free with free shipping I don’t remember. I basically bought all the pellets at the time they recommended that we shoot that most accurate. I just remember at the time the crow magnum’s had such a good write up on them and the predator pellets did to that I tried both of them and they both shot really tight so I never opened up the other tins to try. I have some daisy pellets sitting around that they don’t even make any more from when I bought them 10 years ago. Flatnose...I don’t think they got good reviews but they sure hit hard at 6 feet as they were blowing through plywood it in my house adjusting the Trigger. I see a lot of the pallets are bent and deformed so I would assume that probably was the death of them. From the reviews I believe my cocking force is closer to 40 lbs which explains why I have to really “concentrate” when cocking it.


I’ll have to try all three of my Diablos and see how they shoot. I would expect one of them to shoot better than the crow magnum‘s and predator pellets.

I remember you told me that shooting at diamonds make you more more accurate and gives more of a precise aiming point so that’s why aimed at the tippy top of the target.

The only place I found Ross is when I cock the rifle it was below the breach on the lower outside. I loaded it up with oil and scrubbed it Off Pretty good. I ran a bore snake through my barrel twice but didn’t use any lube. Any proper way or suggestions to clean air rifle barrels for accuracy?

I can tell you the recoil with this gun with a nitro piston is a whole different animal. It seems like the recoil goes in every direction instead of back. It literally makes me want to flinch and jump every time I pull the trigger. I can tell it’s gonna take some trigger time to getting used to it. I might actually use earplugs or my electronic earmuffs when I group test it as it makes a pretty good “crack”.

I’m kind of worried on the longevity of that nitro piston since it’s 10 years old but since I hardly ever shot it I would assume it’ll last me sometime yet. When they converted it at pyramid air they sent back the original spring with it but I still have in the box put up. I don’t ever plan on using a spring in it but I just figured I have it for a back up plan if my piston ever fails.

I remember about five or six years ago I tried to make some homemade bird shot shells and tried it about five or six times but I couldn’t get it to pattern at 10 yards. I basically took a cleaning wad and wrapped some paper around it and super glued it around the base like a straw till it dried. I believe I used a straw as well around the cleaning bases. Put in about eight or nine pieces of 7 1/2 shot in it and folded over the top paper and glued it shut. It was a pretty neat little load... They just didn’t pattern worth a darn.

[bosterr]

What/where did you find the instructions for that 20 oz. trigger? I messed with my model 95 Quattro so much and have 1/4 inch of travel but it is about a 1 lb. pull. The gun is a Hatsan model 95 with the gas piston in .22 caliber.

My. Hawke 3X9 Airmax is sighted in for 35 yds and with the type of reticle it has I've taken a few chipmunks at 50 yds. The reticle also allows me to hit pretty regularly at 75 and 100 yds. as well.

[Tripplebeards]

What/where did you find the instructions for that 20 oz. trigger? I messed with my model 95 Quattro so much and have 1/4 inch of travel but it is about a 1 lb. pull. The gun is a Hatsan model 95 with the gas piston in .22 caliber.

My. Hawke 3X9 Airmax is sighted in for 35 yds and with the type of reticle it has I've taken a few chipmunks at 50 yds. The reticle also allows me to hit pretty regularly at 75 and 100 yds. as well.

I watched this video...

https://youtu.be/ljcTTfjP6KI

I posted down in the comments about the screw specifications I bought from Ace Hardware for $.89 each if you want to replicate my work. The screws are basically the same but silver in about a quarter inch longer. I got home from Ace Hardware and went out in the garage, turned on my grinder, and rounded the bottom of the screws off and then polish them on the wire wheel. I did not remove my trigger completely like on the video here but just turn the action upside down and gently took out all three pins that held in the trigger and the return spring. I first of all went through my spring collection that I bought from Ace Hardware throughout the years and none felt light enough so I wanted to try something new and took a spring out of a ballpoint pen and cut it down. I then installed the lighter spring and I had to adjust the screw about a good three or 4+ turns in to get a decent return on my Trigger. Way lighter than the factory spring I can tell you that. I then installed my two new screws so they were barely sticking out the bottom like the factory ones did one turned all the way in. I then installed the trigger and set the second stage screw which is the closest one to the Trigger down to the point that is it eliminated all the second stage travel. I then turned in the screw that was closest to the barrel to the point where my Sears had about a 1/16” or a little more of contact with each other like the video I posted above said to do. I then load it up with the pellet and pointed it at my back stop and wiggled the trigger back-and-forth to make sure it wouldn’t go off and was too light. The trigger the way I have it set up without any further adjustments was breaking at a crisp 34 ounces with zero creep! I made three more adjustments to the screw that was for the stout from the barrel which adjust the trigger pull weight/tension. I turned it in maybe about an eighth of an inch at a time and retested. First time I adjusted it went to 2 pounds second time I adjusted it went to one and three-quarter pounds in the third time it broke at 20 ounces which was a pound and a quarter and I figured that was good enough so I left it alone. I’m sure I could adjust it down even further but I like 1 to 1 1/4 pounds for my rimfires and target rifles. Maybe I got lucky but boy it was fast and easy to get this baby adjusted down. I loaded it up three or four more times and put a pallet in it as I know you’re not supposed to dry fire them in pointed it at my back stop and wiggled the trigger around really good and violently to make sure it would not go off accidentally.I loaded it up three or four more times and put a pallet in it as I know you’re not supposed to dry fire them and pointed it at my back stop and wiggle the trigger around really good and violently to make sure it would not go off accidentally.

Just like on the video it says that the screws are not made long enough for the adjustments so I’m sure your 2nd stage travel screw is too short causing all that movement. I think the key is that I adjusted my travel screw first so it had zero creep and then I adjusted my pull weight screw down to basically match it.

[bosterr]

I have already swapped out the 2 screws for longer and that helped a lot but I still have a really long first stage and a lot of creep too. That may be the same YouTube vid I watched before but I wasn't comfortable with taking out the entire housing. I'll give your info a try tomorrow. Thanks Tripplebeards!

[Tripplebeards]

https://i.imgur.com/jX2yCkb.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/QG2Oe94.jpg


If you can read my sloppy handwriting these are the part numbers I had to write down when I picked up my screws. You can see they stick out a little bit longer than the factory screws and I made sure to put plenty of blue Loctite on the existing threads before I adjusted them down further so hopefully they won’t move.


I never removed my entire housing either. I just gently pushed the trigger itself down and pulled the pin that holds it in out to release the trigger. Same with the tension release spring behind it. I did not want to tear my rifle completely apart either. Would’ve been nice to polish up my Sears but in my opinion it doesn’t need to be done with this gun after my adjustment as it breaks like a timney trigger now. The new screws measure .744” in length. If you try the same screws you can at least get an idea how far they stick out to achieve the trigger pull I acquired. I realize that the specs probably are exactly the same but at least get you close. I think all I needed was probably three or four more thread lengths on the factory existing screws to get it to adjust to where it’s at now as you can see those screws stick out compared to the factory ones in the first photo I posted of the rifle. The one extra screw above that has black oil on the threads. It was the one I tried when I took my Trigger to the hardware store. It must have had a lot of oil on the mating threads. As I look at the threads in my picture here I don’t see where the blue Loctite really shows up where its dried so I think I’m gonna put another coat on the base of the threads were they mate with the Trigger for some extra assurance and peace of mind since I know this gun recoil’s in every direction even with the nitro piston.

[bosterr]

I found screws like that at Home Depot and they stick down about like yours. I'm going to get into mine tomorrow and hope I can shorten up the pull by a lot. This thing shoots great already but a shorter pull should make it even better. I have 3500 pellets through mine since I bought it in June and I've found H & N 14.66 gr. Field Target Trophy pellets works best in mine at about 760 FPS. When it get a little warmer I want to chronograph to see it it's lost any velocity.

[Tripplebeards]

I found screws like that at Home Depot and they stick down about like yours. I'm going to get into mine tomorrow and hope I can shorten up the pull by a lot. This thing shoots great already but a shorter pull should make it even better. I have 3500 pellets through mine since I bought it in June and I've found H & N 14.66 gr. Field Target Trophy pellets works best in mine at about 760 FPS. When it get a little warmer I want to chronograph to see it it's lost any velocity.

I believe the key is to adjusting the second stage screw first and then watching where your sears touch in that open little window in the trigger housing and get them to the point where they’re just barely touching each other. I removed all the creep/second stage pull just by adjusting the second stage screw down first. Then I basically adjusted my pull weight screw even with the 2nd stage screw or down Just a hair deeper. Then I would put the gun back in the stock and shoot it and then adjust The front screw if you want it lighter. I actually fired mine out of the stock so I could watch the sears move and how much contact was left with them as I adjusted the pull weight down the first couple times when I was lightening the pull weight with the front screw. It might make it easier to keep it out of the stock and adjust it so you can see how much or little contact you have with the Sears. I made the final couple of micro adjustment turns to the pull weight screw after I put it back in the stock. Maybe a 1/8th inch turn or less at a time.

If you haven’t replaced your trigger return spring with a lighter spring I tell you to start there first like I did. It Took all of a couple seconds to pull one out of A ball point pen and cut it to an equal length of the factory spring. The factory spring took a ton of force to compress. All you have to do to take that return spring bracket out is push it down with your finger and remove the pin holding it in. Took me about a half hour at the most for the operation give or take a few minutes as I never messed with taking apart a Quattro trigger before so I went slow and took my time.

[bosterr]

Got it. I'm going to work on it today and I'll let you know.

[bosterr]

Well, that was easy! The man in your video said the earlier Quattros had ridiculous heavy springs in them and at some point Hatsan started to install much lighter springs. I would say since your gun is 10 years old and mine is less than a year old, mine already had a lighter trigger spring in it. All I had to do was turn the front screw (the one closer to to the barrel) in 3/4 turn from where I already had it and I immediately got a 14 oz. trigger (which seemed too light to me) and all the 1st stage pull was gone. I turned it back out 1/4 turn which gave me a 18 oz. trigger and just shy of zero creep. I'll shoot it a few hundred more times and if everything stays this way I'll call it good to go. It looks I already had this trigger 3/4ths of the way and didn't know it. I guess all it took was for someone to explain this in a language I could understand. Thanks Tripplebeards!

[Tripplebeards]

Good to hear. I really didn’t understand it myself Till I watched the video and then decided to take it apart “my way” instead of completely. I figured you’d be able to do it pretty quick. I’m gonna have to mess around with my browning 800 express 22 Cal nitro pistol trigger now that I’m on a roll. I live in town and my Walther Talon is way too loud and long to swing out the door in my backyard so I normally just use my browning 22 cal 800 express pistol for rabbits and squirrels chewing on my garden. The trigger on the pistol is too heavy as well. You really have to hold it steady or on a rest if I plan on eyeballing something with it. I mounted a camo tasco PDP2 red dot on it. At 20 yards that little pistol will sail a predator pellet right through a rabbit or a squirrel. The return spring I removed was as stiff as a car coil. My trigger is not rock solid and I can rattle it with my fingers with the light spring when it is not cocked. I never checked it before hand with the firmer spring to see if I could wiggle it prior but I’m not worried about it is it safe and doesn’t go off. I’m guessing it would have moved with the old spring as well.

Don’t feel bad it only took me 10 years to figure it out.lol

We both should have some tac drivers now.


If your rifle came with the factory crummy Optima scope Like minded I tell you to jump on eBay and order up a 2 1/2 x 10 Tasco to targeter varminter like mine it’s $27.99 shipped. It’s bright and crystal clear at Full 10 X power at 25 feet when I tested in my garage and has mil dots to boot! It’s just about as bright as my Nikon’s.

Now that my trigger so late I’m gonna have fun and set up some pop cans at 100 yards and see where I hit with My mil dots. I had a Nikon rimfire 3 x 9 on it the summer before last but ended up taking it off and using it on something else. Even with the rotten heavy trigger I was knocking turtles off logs at about 120 yards.


Now that i’m going to be able to shoot my rifle accurately I might have fun and install my day/night vision on it.


Just make sure you don’t just your screw down too far or the sears wont engage according to the video. That’s why I stopped at 20 ounces as I didn’t wanna to push my luck. After I shoot mine a while you might make me lighten mine just a hair. But I have zero creep so as much as I want to mess with some more I’m probably leaving it alone.

[bosterr]

Mine came with the Optima too. It wasn't on long before I bought a 3X9 Bugbuster. At about 1000 shots the crosshair broke. UTG replaced it with a new one and it too broke the crosshair at about 1000 shots. They replaced it with a new one again and I sold it on Ebay. I went with the Hawke 3 X 9 Airmax and couldn't be happier, except if I had it to do over I would have bought the 4 X 16 for another 20 bucks. The trigger pull is so nice and short now my groups shrunk noticeably. The 1 1/2 inch swinger at 50 is pretty routine and my hit percentage at 75 and 100 yds. went up too. Thanks once again for your help! Bob

[Tripplebeards]

Sweet! You’re gonna make me go out in the cold and zero my tasco in at 25 yards now.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Lol. I appreciate it’s good to hear. BTW I got my Ruger 450BM scout back about two weeks ago. Ruger went through and refinished it one more time and it looks like it belongs in a show room. It looks so nice I’m afraid to shoot it. I messaged Bluejay and he was talking about trying to get a mold made for the 450 BM that has almost a completely pointed nose for reliable feeding so I’m waiting to put my name in for that one one.

Good to hear you got that sorted out. I was worried.

On the Pellets it seems from my observations that the H&N and JSB are the top brands. When I got my first HW35EB I bought a bunch of Pellets from Beemans. I still have most of them. most were made in Japan like "Silver Jets" and regular Jets. I have shot alot of them over the years especially at Mocking Birds and they are accurate enough and definitely any bird that gets hit by one is DRT! but for the majority of my shooting it has been the H&N Match pellets which are flat nosed wadcutters.

I saw the JSB Pellets at the SHOT show a few years ago and bought some of them for both the .177's and .22's. They are excellent! I got the Exact Version and the Mondo Big Pellets in both .177 and .22. Both the .177's shoot the big pellets well. the HW77 won't stabilize the big one , but the R1 will. still 18 gr .22 pellets are pretty devastating on Doves and Pigeons and even a Crow if they are dumb enough to give me a shot inside 50 yards.

I haven't been able to find a place to go Dove Hunting with a shotgun in the last 15 years, but I can get my limit in my front yard with a pellet gun easily, and nobody would know it even happened, but could easily smell the BBQ!

I highly recommend you put some time in shooting your gun off the rest and sighting it dead on. If you got the trigger where you want it then that gun is about the best thing for practice shooting you own. The biggest point is that you don't have to leave home to shoot it, you just go down to the garage. I literally shot from my bedroom door to the other end of the living room in my Condo before I was married. And I did it just about every day. I got good, but I was also <30 years old.

Pellets shown are all .22's L ot R are,,, H&N Match and Barakuda, and JSB Exact and Monster. IN the target they were all shot from the R1, and I was really tired afterwards from cocking that beast 20 times in about 30 minutes...

Randy

[Tripplebeards]

Yeah that’s probably why I’ve been procrastinating on buying the carnivore. I think cocking it is going to get boring real quick. I did do some online research on my Browning 800 express 22 caliber pistol and read in another forum to pull the action back to look for an Allen head screw hidden underneath the pistol grip. Apparently I can turn clockwise and get the trigger to brake under 2 pounds pretty easy. That will be my project for tomorrow if it doesn’t warm up. I’m guessing one of my JSB pellets will end up up being the most accurate. I basically just concentrated on the chrome magnums and prouder pallets when I got it because they shot tight groups and it was all the rage at the time for an instant knock down pellet. The more I read about the JSBs it sounds like those domed pellets smack just as hard and penetrate way deeper besides being more accurate to boot. I would think the wadcutter has got to knock stuff With authority with the flat metplate. All I know is the daisy ones I had were blowing through a three-quarter inch treated plywood at 6 feet when I was testing my Trigger. I figured the flat wadcutters would have penetrated less. I think I have as much inventory in pellets as it would equal in cost for a cheap springer so I figure before I keep buying pellets more test I would least try and group with the ones I have first. No one ever offered test packs when I bought mine a decade ago, it sure would’ve been nice. Whatever pellets Group the tightest I’ll have to pull out my chronograph and run them through it to see how my nitro pistons holding up

[Tripplebeards]

Randy my gun likes the 18 grain jumbo heavy JSBs the best as well. I shot three groups with them at approx 23 yards today. I had one fly on the first group about a quarter inch away from my other five that went in one large hole about the size of two pencil erasers put together. I then shot another group of five that all touched in one vertical line. The third shot group all when I one large hole maybe a hair smaller than two pencil erasers put together. The JSB RS have hope as well. I had five that drew a big “C” in the paper. The next group four went in the same large hole and one a quarter inch away from the group. And the last group I botched. Three when in the same hole and the other two were a quarter inch away in two different directions. So I decided on the 18 grainers and zeroed my gun in. Now what to do with all the piles of pellets that won’t shoot.lol The predator, H&N terminators, and crow magnums All grouped about an inch or so. Years ago I thought they grouped decent... I guess not compared to the JSBs. They look like a shotgun blast pattern compared to the Jumbos... Just wrecked it for me. All alloy pellets I tried were all over the place. I’m sure at 10 yards they would be fine... But why would I want to limit myself to distance.

My gun is still finicky even with the light trigger. The talon is a beast. It jumps all over in my lead sled even with a nitro piston. I have to have a firm grip on it or my pellets will go off course. I definitely need to start practicing with it and get use to the way it recoils.

I got it sighted in the dead center now at approximately 23 yards. I was aiming for a pellet hole in the target and hit it two times in a row after the final sight in.


After trying all the pellets I had which had been about 15 or 16 different kinds if not more I found my rocket pellets set aside I didn’t try yet...I just went out and tried the rockets and They were around an inch or so like every other hunting pellet I tried.

Randy Was your above target set at 10 yards of not you and your R1 puts me & my talon to shame.lol The only one that group that tight at 23 yards were the 18 grain JSB jumbo exacts for me.

[W.R.Buchanan]

3B the target was a 10 yards.

You need to get off the lead sled.

With a springer you need to use an "Artillery Hold"

You have the gun sitting on a front bag and maybe a rear bag as well if you have one. You hold the gun loosely so that it is free to move in a strait line forward and rearward under recoil. The Pellet is still in the barrel as it starts to move during recoil and as such anything you do to the gun while it is going thru it's firing cycle will affect where the pellet goes.

I literally shot all my guns on top of a 6x6 with a towel on top of it for a rest. I had a loose cheek weld (enough to line up with the scope) and a light grip with the firing hand and didn't have the gun pulled tight against my shoulder. It was free to move about maybe 1/4-1/2" on its own.

This is the way to impose the least amount of outside influence on the gun I have found. I got it off one of the Airgun Sites and it works..

The whole point of the 10 yard zero is because the pellet will rise out to 20-25 yards and then start to drop back to zero at 40 yards. So theoretically your 23 yard zero would shoot high before 23 and low beyond it. But once again you'll never know for sure until you shoot the gun at the various distances and see exactly what it is doing with any given pellet. I recommend shooting a 5 shot group with each pellet style.

Once you get all this sussed out you write down the results and take pics of the targets so we can see them and you won't have to do it again, and you'll know exactly what the gun will do.

The R1 is the least accurate of all my guns. The HW35E (newest to me) is probably the most accurate, with the 35EB (first gun)next and then the .22 cal. HW77. None of them are slouches.

Randy

[Tripplebeards]

I figured I’d get one of those “beanbag” type rests to shoot off of. I knew the lead sled definitely was not answer when shooting this gun. My best groups came with using a firm hold and pulling it back tightly onto my sled. Thanks for the tip. I’ll start looking for some Caldwell beanbags. I saw a saw a set I really liked a while back. I’m sure it will make the a lot gun steadier as well. At least I figured I’m in a good place to start and ordered another tin of 18.13 grain jsb pellets off Amazon. I wanted to at least get my rifle zeroed and find out what pellets group tighter than the other. I’m sure my gun will shoot tighter than what I did today by far. I just have to get used to shooting it properly. I bought the gun about 10 years ago but I’ve never really put the time in to shoot it.

[bosterr]

W.R.Buchanan... To simulate shooting off hand like I would shooting yard varmints, I rest my rifle against the right side door jamb of my sunroom, standing with my right elbow resting on a step ladder and using the artillery hold. Certainly less than a dead rest, but when I shoot off bags with the artillery hold POI is 2 inches low and 1/2 inch to the right even though my groups are into one hole at 35 yds. Picking chipmunks off at 50 yds. is "usually" no problem using the "door jamb hold" but I'd still like to get more steady. Could you elaborate on your 6 X 6 method? I have some treated pieces of 6 X 6 laying around I can use. Do you slide the fore end ahead to put the trigger guard near the 6 X 6? Do you support the butt with a bag? Your fist?

[Tripplebeards]

W.R.Buchanan... To simulate shooting off hand like I would shooting yard varmints, I rest my rifle against the right side door jamb of my sunroom, standing with my right elbow resting on a step ladder and using the artillery hold. Certainly less than a dead rest, but when I shoot off bags with the artillery hold POI is 2 inches low and 1/2 inch to the right even though my groups are into one hole at 35 yds. Picking chipmunks off at 50 yds. is "usually" no problem using the "door jamb hold" but I'd still like to get more steady. Could you elaborate on your 6 X 6 method? I have some treated pieces of 6 X 6 laying around I can use. Do you slide the fore end ahead to put the trigger guard near the 6 X 6? Do you support the butt with a bag? Your fist?

Do you have a spring in your gun or is it piston driven? I hear “spring gun are hold sensitive. My rifle has a piston in it so from what I’ve read it’s more forgiving. My Browning 800 express 22 cal pistol is a springer but I believe with the recoiling spring built into the stock of it helps with not being hold sensitive as well.

Bosterr, when I shot my rifle to test it the other day I has just a hair of creep/ travel before my trigger broke. Not bad at all. I would say less than 1/16 of an inch. Very livable. It either wasn’t noticeable when I tried it the other day or it “settled” in after a 100 rounds of shooting. It’s not enough that I will try to adjust it again.

[bosterr]

Mine is a gas piston. I watched a video not long ago that shows the slow motion of the forward recoil of a gas piston gun. It's pretty significant going forward and much less to the rear but it's still pretty visible as well. I'd say since mine wants to shoot low off of 2 bags the angle of the butt stock when it recoils forward on the rear rabbit ear bag is raising the butt and lowering the muzzle is causing it to shoot low.

After I adjusted the trigger last week to get it down to 18 oz. the creep that I thought would be ok is no longer ok. I adjusted some more creep out but it lowered the pull weight down to 14 oz. I'm leaving the creep that is in it now because that's my sear engagement? I can't feel it squeezing the trigger but I can see it when I watch.

[Tripplebeards]

I read about the second stage holding the sear as well. So I would assume some creep is is good/safe. I also was still scratching my head on why the 15 grain Diabolo heavies shot a large group compared to my jumbos and RS. I remember the heavies fit loose. I went on JBS’s website and it listed these pellets at 5.5” VS the jumbos and RS are 5.52” so the are like throwing a hotdog down a hallway in my gun. I ordered up a another box of 250 jumbos off amazon that will arrive today. If they packaged them like PyramydAir does I’ll order more as they were $12.73 with free shipping. I. Gong to try and accuracy test my browning express air pistol today if I have time will all my pellets. I know at 10 yards it stacks predator and rocket pellets but I want to see how it does at 23 yards like the rifle.

[rking22]

Are Crosman Premiers gone from the market? They always shot best in my Theoben Classic. It’s a gas ram design and is brutal to thin skirted pellets. Crow magnums were pitiful, an inch plus at 20 yards with some showing canting. Premiers are one hole at that distance. Shot into a bundle of plastic shopping bags showed why, the skirts were flared almost straight and the face was drawn to the side. Don’t know if the newer gas rams are as “sharp” as Theoben( Beeman Crow magnum rifle was a Theoben ) but if so thicker skirted pellets will generally do better if they are the right size. In my R9 the HN field target trophy is very good, also in my vintage blue streak.

Oh, mine are mostly 5mm but a zero at 33 yards was about a half inch hi at 23 yards and on at 12 yards ,at least that’s memory, been a while. I hand hold and rest my left hand on a soft but firm rest and butt is in my shoulder. Any front rest I ever tried, or letting the butstock ride anything, caused the poi to vary when I was hunting or shooting offhand. I use my springers for offhand practice, if you can shoot a springer well offhand then a flintlock is easy! Made no difference if gas ram or steel spring, still lots happening before the pellet even moves, much less clears the bore.

[bosterr]

Crosman Premier are still available at Walmart and is what I started out with in my Hatsan Model 95 until I settled on H&N Field Target Trophy. The Premiers were very good and would be a cheap one to fall back on.

I know I need to perfect my artillery hold and figure out what and where the contact points of the rifle must be.

[rking22]

I just searched, glad I payed in a stash of the old 1250 cnt cardboard box Premiers. They carried the die number and when you got the one that shot the best you knew what die and lot you wanted and I bought a lifetime supply. Need to get me some JSB to try in the Theoben, JSB,s shoot well in the FWB300 but I did not buy a bunch.
As long as you can duplicate the hold from shot to shot, many variations work. Just that a little difference in grip and traction to recoil gives BIG changes in poi for the shot. That Theoben will not stay in 2 inches off a sandbag, but it will cut one ragged hole if I just hold the fore end and rest my hand on the bag. Grip consistent and don’t fight the recoil. Interesting to intentionally change, like a very tight pull back into the shoulder, then see a decent group but inches from the one held more relaxed. Fantastic accuracy, but not very easy to shoot well. Probably part of the fascination for me., and others I suspect.

[Tripplebeards]

I tried my browning 800 express 22 pistol right before dark. I tried predator, crow magnum, and rocket pellets at approx 15 yards if I had to guess. The predators grouped around 1 3/4” or more, the crow magnums were about the same. The rockets put three dead center in the 10x all in one hole and the other two shots landed about an inch away. I tried them again with about the same group results. I then tried the h&N terminators. They made one big tear that I would say was a half inch group give or take. I like that! A nasty little hunting pellet with a steel core. I then tried all three of my JSB match pellets. The tightest group was a little larger then the terminators with the 18.13 grainers. I was shooting a little high and left with the terminators so adjusted 4 clicks right and down. It was getting pretty dark and I couldn’t see the black dots very well I was aiming at with my tasco PDP2 red dot. The last. Four shots I took load two in the bulls in the same hole and one about a quarter inch low. I’ll resume Tomorrow in the daylight.

I’ve been using the rockets and predator pellets in my backyard for small game and some times I do perfect head shots and then I’ll have a complete miss the next shot. I’ll make sure to zero it and start practicing with the terminators. Can’t wait to see how they do on small game.

[rking22]

I have no experience with either of those pellets, but found that the domed pellets were best for me. Seemed the flat nosed ones opened their groups at distance in a non linker manner. Only real failure I have had was a big fox squirrel at about 20 yards. 2 crow magnums from a PCP did not penetrate to the brain. Both flattened against the bone. He was knocked out, but took a knife to finish. Domed pellets have worked on like shots ever since. These running MV of 780 to 860fps in 5mm. Accuracy with penetration is you friend, in that order :)

[W.R.Buchanan]

W.R.Buchanan... Could you elaborate on your 6 X 6 method? I have some treated pieces of 6 X 6 laying around I can use. Do you slide the fore end ahead to put the trigger guard near the 6 X 6? Do you support the butt with a bag? Your fist?

Not too hard I just sit the 6x6 on the bench and put a towel on it. see Pics.

It is close to being on target so I just lean on the gun a little to get the shot placement I want. Hand loosely around the end of the fore end to hold it steady.

Side to side is just turning the gun side to side,,, and elevation is just leaning down on the butt to make vertical alignment. It is really close just sitting there. Very little tweaking to make the shot.

You can see how the entire fore end is supported so it slides easily on the towel. The gun recoils freely fore and aft. This puts the least amount of "Human Influence" on the gun and allows it to do what it wants as the shot breaks.

Randy

Oh,,, I weighed that gun today,,, 10lbs on the nose. I told you it was heavy.

[Tripplebeards]

Randy! I tried your lay down rest method today. I laid my rifle down over my grille in the backyard with a thick grass floor mat on top of it. With the contour of the grille I was able to snug my gun all the way up to the trigger guard. I could leave my rifle sit on it I this way without any support. I was shooting at 100 yards to see if I could figure out mil dots. The base if my first mil dot hits about 1.5” low at 100 yards. Heres my story...



I just figured out my tasco mil dot drops today. I have my gun zeroed at 23 yards with 18.13 grain JSBs. I set 2, 2 liters out at a 100/110 yards if I had to guess. I placed them in the middle of the woods in the background. I’ll use my range finder tomorrow to check the actual distance. I was zoomed to 10x in my tasco varminter and found the bottom of first mil dot and it hit about an inch and a half low at 100 yards! It sure doesn’t drop much. I turned the unopened PBR can side ways three times but it didn’t explode... the JSBs just sailed through it. I used two, 2 liters with water for larger aiming points to figure out where to aim first before wasting the beer. I also had a spotter with binoculars( the beer doner). After I figured out where I thought I needed to aim I put the base of my dot on the middle of a one inch lemon that was on the lemon lime 2 liter bottle and I hit about 1.5” below the lemon. I should have 100 yards figured out now. I caught a pellet in each water filled two liter. The rest sailed right through them. The PBR never stopped any of my pellets. I would assume there’s enough knockdown power for feathers at that distance and I’m guessing a headshot on a squirrel might put it down it I was accurate enough? I’ve got some more practicing to do before that’s going to happen.

I think my beer doner was a little riled up because He never thought I’d shoot his beer. Lol

https://i.imgur.com/5N3VgAI.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/4tAVFDD.jpg

[bosterr]

Oh! Your rifle is laid lengthwise on the 6X6! And it looks like you shoot off of a dresser so a card table or a patio table will move too much under recoil. I'll be taking the rig to my club's benches that are build with cement block bases. It's far too cold here in Pa. to try your method now so I'll get things gathered up for warmer temps. Does the trigger guard touch/hit the 6X6 at all?

[W.R.Buchanan]

This was in my Machine Shop and the 6x6 is sitting on my loading bench, and it is pretty stable and solid. No, the trigger guard doesn't touch the 6x. The gun is entirely supported by the fore end.

Randy

[Tripplebeards]

I noticed last night that I had to put my mil dot to the right side of the can when shooting at 100 yards and there was zero wind. I did some close range plinking at approx 10 yards at 10x this morning and It might have been even a hair closer. I moved my head around to try and make sure my parallax was aligned so my crosshairs would not move when I moved my head around. I was not aware that I needed to do this when I sighted the gun in so maybe that was my problem because my “zeroed” gun from the other day shifted a little to the left at 10 yards. About a dozen or more clicks to the right corrected the issue and it was back to zero vertically at 10 yards. At 10x with the parallax adjusted all the way in to the closet focus setting I use the second mil dot above my crosshairs to hit dead center at 10x. At the same 10 yard distance at 2.5x and the parallax adjusted all the way out to infinity my left and right is still dead center buy I have to aim just below the first mil dot above my crosshairs to hit dead center. Makes sense since this is a second focal plane optic and that my mil dot aiming spots will change with magnification. I am Curious why it shifted to the left after I was hitting pellet hole per pellet hole at 23 yards the other day. I’m guessing because I sighted it in on the lead lead and my eye could have been looking at an angle to the optic?...or maybe I didn’t have the parallax perfectly lined up with the cross hair focus? My scope, scope stop, and rings seem solid as a rock yet. I used blue loc tite on my base and rings, 3m 77 adhesive inside the rings, and torqued the rings to 15 inch pounds with my wheeler torque wrench. I did notice that there was like a little mini sunshade in front of my parallax adjustment but did rattle loose while shooting the other day and I hand tightened it... Maybe it could’ve been the culprit rattling at the shot. It hasn’t come loose since but I keep checking it. I’m hoping Randy or someone can help me out with an explanation.

This is how I’ve been shooting mine last night and today. It’s sitting there balancing perfectly like the way Randy suggested. The butt pad is not touching the garage can and just resting/floating on the mat I have draped over the grille. I love shooting it this way!

https://i.imgur.com/wxPb6Un.jpg

[Tripplebeards]

After nonstop internet research this afternoon I’m guessing the reason my gun shifted about a half inch left after zeroing the other day is because I didn’t fine tune my parallax adjustment to see if my crosshairs were not floating along with the combination of shooting off my lead sled so my head was probably a little to the left so my face wasn’t “spot welded” to my stock? Never had a close range optic with a front AO so this is all new to me. Good thing I did some reading because I bought three more of these optics. I’m guessing if I just sight this optic in with my adjustable objective adjusted to infinity and never change it to focus any closer I wouldn’t have to worry about my POA moving. But when I do adjust it I need to make sure that my parallax is lined up with my eye focus piece so my crosshairs don’t float and Ill be fine?

[MT Chambers]

Don't be taken in by some of the gamo and cheaper guns' advertising of velocity, fastest pcp that I've seen is the Seneca .22 at over 1100 fps with real pellets and 500 cc,s of air, I've had to throttle back mine some for better accuracy and shot count. Break barrels are the same, advertising hype is common on the cheaper guns...a new HW90 is prolly the most powerful and anything like it would be impossible to cock.