Glock barrel leading

[Bashby]

I’ve been casting boolits for my Polymer 80 with a (Edit to add not a factory Glock barrel like I thought) 9mm barrel. Barrel slugs to .3555. Been sizing to .357 with a Lee push through and powder coating. My lead is range scrap. I guess I need to try a harder alloy. I have some pewter and some Superhard from Rotometals. I’m new to casting and this will be my first time making a new alloy. Looking for advice on how much of what to add and best way to do it... or anything else that I should try.

[cwlongshot]

I would Look to your powder coat first. I shoot more cast thru my G35 than most folks. Some weeks see near 1000 rounds. All my cast and Powder coated. ZERO FOULING. That’s thru factory and KKM barrels.
Cast softer than most. 10bhn or less. Shooting loss from 800-1200 FPS.

You may need more baking time also are you quenching in water out of oven to cool
Or just air cooling?

One of the best ways to soften a billet is to heat to 400 for 20 minutes and air cool.

CW

[Burnt Fingers]

It's likely your barrel throat or lack thereof.

[sigep1764]

Pull a seated boolit from a loaded round. Measure the base diameter. I bet its getting swaged down by the brass case not being opened up enough.

[Bashby]

I would Look to your powder coat first. I shoot more cast thru my G35 than most folks. Some weeks see near 1000 rounds. All my cast and Powder coated. ZERO FOULING. That’s thru factory and KKM barrels.
Cast softer than most. 10bhn or less. Shooting loss from 800-1200 FPS.

You may need more baking time also are you quenching in water out of oven to cool
Or just air cooling?

One of the best ways to soften a billet is to heat to 400 for 20 minutes and air cool.

CWAir cooling

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[Bashby]

It's likely your barrel throat or lack thereof.I sent my barrel to Dougguy to open throat. Here are his comments.
This barrel had a really long weird tapered throat that was probably .600" in length before the rifling, it started at .357" and went smaller, I almost couldn't fit a pilot into it to center the reamer because it was so long. I took out the taper, and took the 1 degree leade in all the way to the lands. It has a long .358" freebore in it that's pretty much parallel before the rifling, this will not hurt anything in fact it will hold a .358" concentric and square to the center of the bore all the way to the leade ins, and could improve groups noticeably. The long tapered throat cannot center the boolit very well, as the diameter keeps changing, this would allow the boolit to fall into alignment wherever it met the least resistance and then stay that way so if it was off axis at all, the throat wouldn't correct it. Hopefully it will work well with .358" for you.

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[Bashby]

Pull a seated boolit from a loaded round. Measure the base diameter. I bet its getting swaged down by the brass case not being opened up enough.Pulled one the other day and it measured .357. I am using 38 s&w expander.

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[cwlongshot]

Will a .358 chamber?

Also powder coat smash test tell a little bit not the whole story. For instance. My buddy shoots quite a few of my bullets into wet pac papers. Soft billets seem to always shed the PC more than hard cast. So to My mind the powder is doing the same job but the bullet surface is failing the adhesion.

How are you baking and have you used any accurate instruments to prove actual temperature?

CW

[Bashby]

Haven't tried to chamber a 358, I'm sure it would with the work Doug did.

I'm using one coat of Smokes PC. I could have got a thicker coat on some of my last batch. Plan to shake longer on my next batch.
I am baking at 400 for 20 min in a toaster oven. Have not verified temp.
I did a smash test on one of my 105 gr SWC and it seemed to be good to my untrained eye.
My mold is from accurate. I don't remember specs. Will look when I get home.

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[gloob]

I use .358 bullets in my stock Glocks. They fit several Glock 9mm barrels. I found the competition 5" long glock 9mm barrel has a shorter throat than the regular ones. I suppose this is the "match chamber." It still chambers the .358 bullets, but it can't chamber as oversize of an OAL; the bullets have to be seated slightly deeper, closer to normal 9mm specs.

Bashby, this thread is confusing because the title refers to leading, but in the thread you seem more concerned with accuracy and have not mentioned anything about leading. Did you solve the leading problem with the .358 bullets, using the 38 S&W expander? This combo was a major improvement for me (I'm assuming you are referring to Lee dies), but still not quite enough. And the effect of case swaging at the base of the bullet was very subtle. Just 2 thous or so, and only at the very base-end of the bullet, leaving full diameter in other parts of the driving band; so this was nothing, right? When I got the even larger and longer NOE 356/360 expander, I achieved perfection. Accuracy is great, and I have not cleaned my bore ever since.

I've shot .356 commercial cast using this expander, too. That's almost perfect, but still a tiny bit of leading (only a little bit near the chamber, which would be awesome, except I already have perfection to compare it to). So .358 it is, for me.

Another example: in 40, I bought the largest expander that I could buy at that time (if memory serves, that was 398, Lyman M Die. Although I have discovered that NOE has since that time started making one at .400"). Shooting WW cast, this left full bore, 1-2 mm thickness lead fouling along the entire bore of my Glock in just a single shot. That was the only shot I fired in that gun that day. After making a 401 expander, I have this gun shooting perfectly clean and accurate using the same and also commercial 401 cast bullets.

Don't underestimate case-swaging!

*edited: also, if you get the bullet to completely fill the bore and the case mouth to nicely seal the chamber on firing? Regular cast bullets make no smoke in a locked breech gun. Even rapid fire at an indoor range, I can't notice any difference in smoke from commercial jacketed ammo. So if you are lucky and get it right, there's not much reason to do coatings, other than coatings making the ammo probably work better in other guns which you will own or shoot in the future. So I wouldn't suggest you don't bother powdercoating. That is fun in itself, not work; if that's your thing. But if you're after accuracy, it doesn't hurt to get all the other important details correct, either.

[cwlongshot]

You should try to “shake it soft” off as much powder as you can. You should NOT need a second coat. If your not getting full even coats you have other issues somewhere. Smokes is good stuff.

Get a good thermometer. I’ll bet ya your temp isn’t where ya think. I have used a few ovens none have been accurate. My first one left puddles where my bullets used ya be. ;)

CW

[Bashby]

255750

[Bashby]

255750
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[Bashby]

I use .358 bullets in my stock Glocks. They fit several Glock 9mm barrels. I found the competition 5" long glock 9mm barrel has a shorter throat than the regular ones. I suppose this is the "match chamber." It still chambers the .358 bullets, but it can't chamber as oversize of an OAL; the bullets have to be seated slightly deeper, closer to normal 9mm specs.

Have you slugged your barrel(s)? I figured .0015 bigger than my bore should be plenty

Bashby, this thread is confusing because the title refers to leading, but in the thread you seem more concerned with accuracy and have not mentioned anything about leading.
I don’t think I said anything about accuracy. I said I purchased my mold from Accurate.

Did you solve the leading problem with the .358 bullets, using the 38 S&W expander? This combo was a major improvement for me (I'm assuming you are referring to Lee dies), but still not quite enough. And the effect of case swaging at the base of the bullet was very subtle. Just 2 thous or so, and only at the very base-end of the bullet, leaving full diameter in other parts of the driving band; so this was nothing, right? When I got the even larger and longer NOE 356/360 expander, I achieved perfection. Accuracy is great, and I have not cleaned my bore ever since.

I have not tried sizing to .358

I've shot .356 commercial cast using this expander, too. That's almost perfect, but still a tiny bit of leading (only a little bit near the chamber, which would be awesome, except I already have perfection to compare it to). So .358 it is, for me.

Another example: in 40, I bought the largest expander that I could buy at that time (if memory serves, that was 398, Lyman M Die. Although I have discovered that NOE has since that time started making one at .400"). Shooting WW cast, this left full bore, 1-2 mm thickness lead fouling along the entire bore of my Glock in just a single shot. That was the only shot I fired in that gun that day. After making a 401 expander, I have this gun shooting perfectly clean and accurate using the same and also commercial 401 cast bullets.

Don't underestimate case-swaging!

*edited: also, if you get the bullet to completely fill the bore and the case mouth to nicely seal the chamber on firing? Regular cast bullets make no smoke in a locked breech gun. Even rapid fire at an indoor range, I can't notice any difference in smoke from commercial jacketed ammo. So if you are lucky and get it right, there's not much reason to do coatings, other than coatings making the ammo probably work better in other guns which you will own or shoot in the future. So I wouldn't suggest you don't bother powdercoating. That is fun in itself, not work; if that's your thing. But if you're after accuracy, it doesn't hurt to get all the other important details correct, either.
......

[Bashby]

You should try to “shake it soft” off as much powder as you can. You should NOT need a second coat. If your not getting full even coats you have other issues somewhere. Smokes is good stuff.

Get a good thermometer. I’ll bet ya your temp isn’t where ya think. I have used a few ovens none have been accurate. My first one left puddles where my bullets used ya be. ;)

CW

I get spots of PC on the foil on my tray, but definitely not puddling. I had an oven thermometer but I couldn’t find it last time I looked. I have my lead thermometer but I don’t think it’s made to put the whole thing in the oven.

[Plate plinker]

My PC is still on the frag after impacting steel. Just saying.......

The PC thing is another animal than what we did before.

[slide]

Bashby, check out the A.t.M. thread. It is an inexpensive way to check your temp. What you are needing is the temp of the bullets. If I can help please don't hesitate! We are all in this together!

[DougGuy]

So, you are still getting leading correct? You have not yet sized to .358" correct?

You should have great groups and no leading if you are sizing so they will just plunk in the throat.

Also, one of the things you can count on a soft alloy to do, is to obturate once pressure from firing builds up enough in the barrel, if you are too hard for this to happen, then gas is likely escaping along the sides of the boolit if you are not sized to the throat.

[Bashby]

So, you are still getting leading correct? You have not yet sized to .358" correct?

You should have great groups and no leading if you are sizing so they will just plunk in the throat.

Also, one of the things you can count on a soft alloy to do, is to obturate once pressure from firing builds up enough in the barrel, if you are too hard for this to happen, then gas is likely escaping along the sides of the boolit if you are not sized to the throat.

Thanks for chiming in Doug, hope all is well with you!
Yes, I am getting leading. I have been sizing to .357 even though I had you size the throat at 358. It’s starting to look like that may be my problem. I am still learning. I figured 357 would be best since my barrel is .3555. I did not know the bigger throat would be a problem. It makes sense now that I think about it. I have 358 sizing dies.

[gloob]

I did not slug any of my bores. In my experience, it doesn't really matter how big the bore is UNTIL you have put the biggest available/practical bullet in there that will still chamber. In a locked breech pistol or a revolver, it doesn't matter if this is even 2-3 full thous larger than bore diameter, AFAIK and have read. (In a blowback, you have to be more careful). The simplest way to think about it is I want to fill the freebore as much as possible to limit gas cutting around the bullet prior to the bullet squeezing into the rifling.

You also, for some mysterious reason, have to care about case swaging of the base of the bullet; this case swaging is largely a problem in cartridges with thick/stiff brass. I have had it in 9mm and 40SW, personally. You can prevent case swaging by using harder alloys (but then you get antimony fouling), or you can do this with a large enough expander. The effect of even a small amount of case swaging can be enormous using a soft bullet in a Glock. Something to do with the leade being so long/gradual, perhaps, which allows more gas cutting compared to other barrels. I honestly don't know. But the base of the bullet seems to be a very important ingredient in this case. Maybe something to do with fluid dynamics on the gas cutting; a smaller base might allow more flow around the bullet and/or an asymmetrically squeezed down base might direct/focus that flow over one spot on the bullet, resulting in more serious melting/vaporization. Think of porting an engine, rounding entry points over, in order to improve laminar flow and increase throughput. And/or the full diameter flat base might be important for proper/optimal obturation? I honestly don't know; i just know it can make a big difference.

If I had done the above and STILL get fouling, then I would slug the bore and/or feel for restrictions. OTOH, if fouling is eliminated by doing the above, then I might try smaller bullets if I had a reason. Like maybe I own other guns with tighter chambers/freebores, and I want to see if I can use the same ammo in both.

If you get the powder coat thick enough, you can probably eliminate lead fouling that way, too. But in my experience with half a dozen Glocks, it is highly likely you can shoot even nekkid cast bullets without any fouling if you get the bullet big enough and you eliminate case-swaging. I have revolvers and other pistols with traditional rifling, and the only handguns I can shoot with zero fouling and the best accuracy with cast bullets (as good if not better than my best jacketed) are my Glocks. All of them.

This is what works for me. I might have gotten some things mixed up and incorrectly attributed. But I was pretty systematic and it took year or two to figure this all out.

[Bashby]

Bashby, check out the A.t.M. thread. It is an inexpensive way to check your temp. What you are needing is the temp of the bullets. If I can help please don't hesitate! We are all in this together!

What’s the ATM thread? Sticky? I looked and didn’t see it.

[slide]

It is in the Coatings and alternatives section. 29 down. That's the best I can do for you I am not too computer savvy. The digital thermometer can be bought on amazon. Most of them come with a thermocouple. Drill a hole in the base of a coated bullet and insert thermocouple and secure with high heat aluminum tape. Put the thermocuple bullet on top of the bullets your are baking. Say if your powder calls for 400F for 10 minutes watch your thermometer and when it hits 400F start a timer set for 10 minutes. This thing will change the instant the temp does. I have used it for 3 years and really like it. It is just another way of doing things,it gives you another option. People have used other ways and they work really well for them. It will cost you around twenty bucks for the set up. The thermocouple wire is thin enough it will not interfere with oven door closing or sealing.

[44Blam]

I shoot a lot of cast in my Glock 35, but I did get some leading in my stock barrel. It was a little weird because it built up on one side of the groves but was very easy to remove. But the accuracy was not very good... So, I use my stock barrel to shoot j-words when I need to.

I have two KKM barrels that I use. One is 40 S&W and the other is 357 Sig. Both of these shoot lead VERY accurately with no lead fouling.

I think the KKM barrels are just a lot higher quality barrels.

[Bashby]

Can I expect to see an improvement in accuracy when going to 358 boolits? It seems like groups opened up after I had the barrels throat reworked. Before I was able to shoot 6” groups @ 25 yards off hand, now I am lucky to do that off of a rest. I had same results with my cast loads and a couple types of jacketed ammo. I had Dougs full service done with barrel re-crown and polishing feed ramp area.255771

[DougGuy]

Thanks for chiming in Doug, hope all is well with you! I have 358 sizing dies.

All good now, got clean scans this week!

Keep in mind that the alloy you shoot has a LOT to do with the final size. Softer alloys have less springback so they will come out of a .358" push through sizer a few tenths smaller than a wheel weight alloy will, and probably half thou smaller than a hardcast bhn22. The softer alloys will also seal in the throat on firing, and seal in the barrel better than harder alloy will.

What this means is that if you run a hard boolit through your .358" die, it may not plunk in the chamber if there is any interference with the throat. Mic'ing the hardcast post sizing will always show it is bigger than the die it just went through.

I do not personally recommend hard alloy and don't use it. I have found that in every instance of application, I can get a softer 50/50+2% boolit to out perform everything else, of course YMMV because I also do not shoot Glocks. I hardly think that lower BHN would factor critical in a Glock where nothing else cares about it being too soft. Things like gas checks and PC allow the use of softer alloy without fouling. Softer alloy fits better when gas pressure hits it from behind. This is a cool thing to take advantage of as no amount of tooling and machining can fit one metal to the other as well as gas pressure can.

[DougGuy]

Can I expect to see an improvement in accuracy when going to 358 boolits? It seems like groups opened up after I had the barrels throat reworked. Before I was able to shoot 6” groups @ 25 yards off hand, now I am lucky to do that off of a rest. I had same results with my cast loads and a couple types of jacketed ammo. I had Dougs full service done with barrel re-crown and polishing feed ramp area.

YES. The reason I get so many 35 caliber barrels and cylinders is that most want to size to .358" so that there is an ample amount of lead to be swaged into the rifling for a tight seal. Works in autos, revolvers, and also rifles. Having a barrel fitted to a boolit is a perfect way to achieve that fitment in the bore. Sizing a boolit too small to fill the throat is like the proverbial pissing into the wind for lack of a more appropriate term. That is inviting burning powder gas to escape along the sides of the boolit which cuts PC, lead, lube, anything in it's path. You are virtually guaranteed fouling as a result of gas cutting, and also poor groups.

In all honesty, I haven't gotten one complaint in thousands of barrels and cylinders throated when boolits were sized to the throats. I got one complaint years ago from a retired machinist that thought his cylinder should have come back to him smooth as a baby's behind, i.e. as polished as the S&W factory sends them out which I admit is VERY slick (this was years before I got the Sunnen hone). I got one complaint from a guy who thought the lands were a bit rough and he was correct as I had a new Manson reamer that I used on his barrel that got by their QC and cut a rough leade in. I can't find his correspondence now to offer to re-ream the barrel, Manson immediately replaced that reamer.

[Bashby]

Thanks Doug, that is encouraging. Hopefully I will have time this weekend to cast some boolits and size @358.

Many thanks to everyone else too! I’ve really been enjoying my new hobby.

[tomme boy]

What make is the barrel

[Bashby]

What make is the barrel

It is a factory Glock barrel.

[Bashby]

Cast up a pile of boolits last night then PCed a 200 or so, then sized to .358. Loaded them up and hit the range. First thing I did was shot a group at 25 using my range bag as a rest from the bench.255963

Then I went to the steel range and shot most of the 200at the plate rack from around 15-20 yards. A couple times I was sure I had a good pull on the trigger and the plate next to the one I was aiming at fell. Missed a lot. Then I shot a mag at a paper plate from 15 free hand.255964

Here’s the barrel after 200 rounds.255965255966

[Bashby]

Anyone else notice anything on those paper plate targets? A couple of those holes look funky. Not the classic keyholes I’ve seen, but looks like they went in sideways to me.255977255978

[Bashby]

255979

[slide]

Have you been able to tell if that is lead or coating?

[Martin Luber]

Don't Glox go boom with lead, unless not polygonal?

[Bashby]

Have you been able to tell if that is lead or coating?

Pretty sure it’s lead. I haven’t cleaned it after today’s range session, but since I’ve been shooting cast, I’ve had deposits that a patch with Hoppes wouldn’t touch. It took some aggressive work with a copper brush to break it loose, then a patch is lead gray in color.

[Dusty Bannister]

Cast and powder coated and loaded and shot within 24 hours of casting. No chance for age hardening was there?

[Bashby]

They were probably pretty soft.

[slide]

Get some chore boy pads. Make sure they are 100% copper,wrap around your cleaning brush. Should remove it. You can get them at most grocery stores. Bullets are not getting swaged down? It could be the pc. I know you don't know me but, if you want to send me some bullets I will powdercoat them for you. I use the a.t.m. and it has made all the difference for me. It has been four years now and I was about ready to go back to lubed. You can p.m. me if you are interested.

[Bashby]

I’m gonna pull a few and check for swaging. Not tonight though.
I did pull one at the start of loading those 200 rounds. It was swaged a bit, it was .3575 or so. Maybe I need to work on the adjustment on my seat/ crimp die.

[slide]

That would be a good place to start. The measurement is a good clue.

[tomme boy]

Water drop the bullets out of the oven. Have you checked the temp is right? Cook them for for 25 min AFTER they go wet looking. That will make sure they are cooked hot and long enough.

[Bashby]

I’m not sure what to try next. My boolits are getting swaged a tiny bit. Since the 38S&W expander has a taper to it, the case doesn’t get expanded deep enough. I am currently running the shell holder all the way up against the die. I could add a shim above the expander to get it to go into the case further. I could also increase my OAL. (Been seating around 1.125). I could also try a harder alloy, but getting mixed advice on that.

The throat on this barrel is long. I can drop a .358 boolit in it then plunk an empty case behind it. I can seat boolits so they are barely in the case and they will still plunk.

[tomme boy]

The 38 S&W expander goes deep enough. Almost 2x as deep as a 9mm one. So that is not your problem. Leave them as large as you can. Now that you had your barrel reamed you have to fill that freebore. Semi pistols do not need a freebore as deep as what was done to your barrel. I would have been mad if someone did that to my barrel. But that is my opinion.

[Bashby]

The 38 S&W expander goes deep enough. Almost 2x as deep as a 9mm one. So that is not your problem. Leave them as large as you can. Now that you had your barrel reamed you have to fill that freebore. Semi pistols do not need a freebore as deep as what was done to your barrel. I would have been mad if someone did that to my barrel. But that is my opinion.

In post #6 on page 1 I posted Dougs explanation as to why he did what he did. He explained this when he sent the barrel back to me, not trying to make excuses after I complained, actually I didn’t complain. I’m not mad at all. If this barrel isn’t going to work with cast I will just get a new one that will. I was torn on just buying an aftermarket barrel or modifying my Glock barrel before I sent it to Doug.


I loaded up 150 rounds and increased the OAL to 1.160+ with a light crimp. They were too long to load in my magazines, so I had to seat them a little deeper at 1.150. My crimp was light enough that I was able to do that without damaging the boolit. (Pretty sure, anyways). I’m going to try them today and see what happens.

[Bashby]

Update in case anyone is following this. Last weekend when i got to the range, i realized i left the ammo i had loaded up at home, so I shot my Ruger Mark IV instead. I messed my back up yesterday and probably wont get out this weekend. Will post results after i shoot those 150 rounds.

[fcvan]

This is going to be a tad long, please bear with me, I'll get to 9mm through a Glock factory barrel eventually.

The first pistol I purchased for myself was a S&W 459 in 1985. I wanted a 357 but my brother had talked it up so much I bought one. He eventually bought a 659. I grew up loading and shooting with my dad, primary calibers being 38/357/41 all being straight wall cartridges. When I started loading for the 9mm, I didn't know that it was supposed to be a pain to load and prone to cause leading.

I approached loading 9mm the same as I was taught, and never (almost, see below) had leading. Lead was from the range at work, our practice rounds were swaged 38 hollow base wadcutters, very soft. Boolits were cast from a Lee 356-125 RN, pan lubed with Javalina, and fired as cast at .358 diameter. I adjusted my dies so the cartridge would 'plunk in the barrel chamber. I never had leading.

I started shooting many other things beside 9mm, having bought a S&W M13 and a Springfield 1911 which became my off duty carry guns. Years later, my wife gave me a Glock 22C in 40 S&W. I loaded 40 and 45 the same way as Dad taught me. When I did shoot 9mm, I used my Lyman 450 with a 358 die with no problems.

I bought a Wolf 9mm drop in barrel for the G22C and G23, and my wife and brother's G22s and 23s, and magazines to boot. No leading in the Wolf barrels or a friend's G17. Then I got a wild hair and bought a .357 die for the Lyman 450. Bingo, leading in my 9mm Wolf barrel and buddy's G17. The boolits key holed at 15 yards, the bore showed some light leading. I shot them up, checking the bore every 50 rounds. I traded away that sizing die promptly. I picked up a G43 9MM that is pretty much my EDC, but still sometimes carry the G22C.

No one told me Glocks are supposed to lead up and kaboom with lead, so I didn't tell them. No leading, no Kaboom. My buddy did lead up his G17 using some store bought cast boolits he had been given. The pictures after 50 rounds were ugly. I had given him some PCd purple boolits (his wife's request) and told him to load some. shoot a mag full, and check the barrel. 10 rounds later, no leading. He never loaded store bought cast, even if given to him, he just melted them down and cast them again.

Soft lead, .358, dies adjusted to not swage during seat/crimping, has given 35 years of lead free 9mm shooting using Javalina lube. I did try White Label Carnuba Red with a lube heater, good stuff, also no leading. Thanks and shout out to member here, Lars.

Now I ASBBPC using Prismatic Powder in any color. Note, their 'satin black' still looks dripping wet when cured. That is pretty much every caliber I shoot. I shoot a lot of 9mm for 2 reasons. 1) it is fun. 2) my wife picked up 15K once fired cases over the years and well, compulsion caused me to load them all. My favorite AR is in 9mm, and I sometimes switch between the Lee 356-102 RN and the 125, both of which cast at 358, and are push through sized to 358 after PC.

9mm kills tin cans. I hate tin cans.

[Landshark9025]

Cast and powder coated and loaded and shot within 24 hours of casting. No chance for age hardening was there?

I’ve messed with cast in various polygonal rifled barrels. Multiple Glocks and HKs. I did find that hardness matters a bit both in accuracy and fouling. Generally at least 3% antimony worked for me in those guns. Use the Lead Alloy Calculator found on this site to help you formulate your alloy.

I use a Lyman M die for expanding and that helped a lot.

I also recommend a minimum of two weeks to age harden if air cooling. A week if water dropping.

If you can chamber a .358, I’d give that a go as well.

Lastly, swing by the grocery and get an oven thermometer. 😏

[Bashby]

How does the Lyman M die compare to the 38 S&W? Does it expand the case any more? Does it have less taper than the 38SW?

[Bashby]

Put about 150 rounds through it today, ran a patch through with some break free, then a clean patch with some brake cleaner to dry it out real good.256961

I guess that’s leading I’m seeing in there. Not nearly as bad as it was. A gentleman at the range was kind enough to let me put a few rounds through his chronograph, the 130 grain boolits were going 920 FPS. They were not locking my slide back on the last round, so I guess I need to up the powder charge a bit. I’ve been using 4.3 gr of Unique.

[Bashby]

Newbie question, If I load with more powder should I expect leading to get worse? That would seem logical, but it seems I read the opposite somewhere.

[sigep1764]

Getting them up to pressure sometimes helps obturation reducing any leading. These are powdercoated rounds right?

[Bashby]

They are powder coated.

[cwlongshot]

You should not be seeing leading.

What’s the dia?

Hardness with PC at sub 1k is moot. I have shot dead soft to straight Lino PCd zero issues multiple Glock bbls.

Are you crimping heavily?

Said before but your sure the PC is cured properly?

CW

[Bashby]

You should not be seeing leading.

What’s the dia?

Sizing to .358 after PC. Barrel slugs at .3555


Hardness with PC at sub 1k is moot. I have shot dead soft to straight Lino PCd zero issues multiple Glock bbls.

Are you crimping heavily? No

Said before but your sure the PC is cured properly? I am not. I have been baking at 400 for 20 min and air cooling.


Have not confirmed temp with thermometer.

CW

.....

[cwlongshot]

Well that’s a big one!

My first attempt set at 400 left a pool of lead with a couple lumps. Ironically it was red HF and looked omanis.

Temps on these cheap ovens can be all over the map

[Bashby]

I got an oven thermometer from Walmart this afternoon and checked the toaster oven. With the oven set on 400, the thermometer indicates 350. How big of a deal is that? I can’t set the oven any higher to compensate.

[Landshark9025]

I got an oven thermometer from Walmart this afternoon and checked the toaster oven. With the oven set on 400, the thermometer indicates 350. How big of a deal is that? I can’t set the oven any higher to compensate.

Yeah, that's likely to be a problem. Going a little hot or a little long is generally ok. I cook mine at a solid 400 to just a bit above for 20 min, but if you are only hitting 350, it is likely not curing. Double check the specs on the powder, but 400 is assumed to be the minimum temp the bullets themselves need to be heated to. If you aren't even getting the air inside the oven that hot, then there's no way the bullets are. Did you give it a solid 10-15 minutes to preheat? I know my ovens cycle on and off LONG before the oven thermometers have leveled out.

The only other thing I could suggest is getting a second oven thermometer just to ensure that one isn't off. "By the mouth of two or more witnesses, a thing must be true." and all. But it sounds like a new oven is in order.

[cwlongshot]

Something else to remember. It’s generally recommended 20/400. Meaning 20 AFTER bullets reach 400. NOT JUST 20 min in oven.

CW

[rockshooter]

one thing I learned- my toaster oven turns on the broiler element to preheat- If there is a tray of bullets close to the top burner they become lumps of lead contained in powder coat. So now I make sure the oven is up to temp before putting any bullets in
Loren

[cwlongshot]

On my two Usually that’s the “toast” setting.

I use the center rack and have tried it both ways. If your temp is correct having heat coming from any direction would be a good thing. More even heat. As long as it’s correct temp heat.

I mentioned it before but I see improved results from lava rock on bottom of my ovens. It collects and radiators heat for a more even application of that heat. (At least in my recollection)

CW

[Bashby]

I got the oven up to 400 and did a batch. Preheated then put the in for 25 minutes. After a magazine or 2 it seemed my accuracy was going away and the barrel was fouled. I was shooting a plate rack, and was getting misses, a couple times the plate next to the one I was aiming at fell, even though my red dot seemed to stay on target through the trigger pull. Frustrated, I shot a few factory rounds through it and accuracy seemed to get better. I shot the rest of the 150 rounds I had made with some Jacketed bullets mixed in to keep the barrel clean.
Here’s what it looks like now.258099

Not sure if I mentioned it in this thread, but I wasn’t happy with the accuracy I was getting with this barrel, even when clean with factory ammo. (6” at 25 yd from a rest). I ordered a Lone Wolf barrel which I received yesterday. None of my reloads will plunk. I can take an empty case, resize it, and it takes slight pressure to seat and won’t fall out under its own weight. If I give it a little tap with my finger to seat it in the chamber I need pliers to remove it. Obviously with any case bulging at all it’s not going to chamber. I’m looking for input on that before I contact Lone Wolf.

[onelight]

Do factory loads drop in the chamber as they should ?
What size bullets are you using ? Is the bullet hanging up in the throat?
With a new barrel you are starting over on load work up.
I would make sure the problem is not the way I assemble my hand loads or my choice of bullet before contacting Lone Wolf.

[Bashby]

Factory bullets plunk.
Using .358 boolits, they are not hanging up in the throat. I dropped one in and took measurements, throat seems good.

[onelight]

Factory bullets plunk.
Using .358 boolits, they are not hanging up in the throat. I dropped one in and took measurements, throat seems good.
If you take one of your reloads that won't fully chamber and eject it if you can't find a mark on the bullet , if you have machinist blue you can color a the whole cartridge or even a black marker and you tell what is binding , it may be in the body of the case the crimp or the bullet .
Your barrel / chamber may not accept the larger .358 bullet properly.

[Bashby]

258156

Bottom 2 are .358 boolits. You can see scuff marks just left of center of the casing. Middle one is an empty case, straight from resizing die to chamber. Scuff is right of center, towards the rim. It didn’t quite chamber all the way and was prett hard to extract.Here is another picture.
258157

The top two are some .357 boolits I loaded up in nickel cases to display. They sit in a candy dish in the living room as a conversation piece and to irritate the girlfriend. They will actually chamber fully and extract.

I tried to upload a pic of the other side of that second one up, failed to upload 6-8 times. Those pics took 3-4 tries. The other side is clearly scuffed towards the rim just like the empty case and right at the mouth where the case was flared.

[onelight]

I would try sizing .357 or .356 if those chamber . With .356 I would try the standard neck expander and see how they work if they work good and you get the crimp where it works you are in business.
The problem with the crimp will show up with mixed lot and brands of cases because they are not all the same length. If factory dimensioned ammo works in your barrel the carbide FCD will simplify loading mixed cases but it won't work for you if you have to oversized bullets more than .356 .357.
Since you now know part of the problem is the body of your case with the over size bullet your barrel maker may have a recommendation based on experience with that barrel.

[P Flados]

I fought leading in a Glock 17 for a very long time with similar results. I even bought a second barrel that did not improve the situation (I should probably try to sell it).

For you original barrel, I am guessing that you never got your "as fired" bullets big enough down at the base of the boolit. I am pretty sure the biggest problem was the bullets being swaged down by the case.

Eventually, I found success that with stuff that included bigger boolits, a custom expander (expander just 0.001" under boolit diameter and brass expanded for full length of seated boolit), sorted brass (FC, Blazer & Speer only), and finally separate steps for boolit seating and a trip through a crimping die (set for flare removal only).

For your new barrel, you seem to have a very tight chamber and a sizer die that is not sizing far enough down the brass. If you run a whole batch of brass through the sizer you may get lucky and find that some percentage may slide in easily as they were never fired at full pressure in a loose chamber. The next problem would then be getting boolits just the right size to not expand the case too much. And then it may or may not shoot without leading depending on groove diameter. For cast boolits in a 9mm, a tight chamber may not be such a good thing.

You have already spent a good bit of money with getting the original barrel re-worked and then for a second barrel. Even if your second barrel vendor is willing to work with you, they typically do not cater to (or understand the needs of) cast boolit shooters. Try to get help from them and you will probably be out some more shipping (at a minimum) with iffy chances for a lot of improvement. I would be very temped to try polishing out the chamber just a little with fine grit wet or dry wrapped around a wooden dowel (just a little at at time, just where needed, and just enough to plunk sized brass) and/or try some more with the original barrel.

Now that I have tried to give you my best ideas on your specific problems, I will add my "standard story on curing leading in a 9mm".




Take your time and read the following. Then do it. As corny and funny as it may sound, it is probably the best solution.

The 9mm can be very frustrating. Do not let that put you off. The solution is simple. There 10 easy steps to boolits the 9mm.

Step 1: Try what you have and what you think might work. Take notes. You might get lucky.

Step 2: If step 1 did not work, tell us exactly what you did.

Step 3: Sort through the 50 suggestions, pick one.

Step 4: Try it and hope you get lucky.

Step 5: If it did not work, tell us exactly what you did and what happened.

Step 6: Sort through the 40 suggestions. Pick a new suggestion.

Step 7: Try it and hope you get lucky.

Step 8: If it did not work, go back to step 5.

Step 9: After you get something that works, assume you are an expert and provide suggestions when some else shares their problems.

Step 10: After a bunch of newbies ignore your suggestions, come to understand that the 9mm is too finicky to ever be simple and work the same way for anybody else.

[Andy45]

This thread has been a very interesting read. I own a few Glock and Sig 9mms.

What bullet molds do you guys like for casting for these? I'm thinking 4 or maybe 6 cavity mold.

[mvintx]

Both the Lee and Lyman 120 TC molds are very popular, probably more so the Lee because of cost. I bought my Lyman (4 cavity) about 5 years ago and it was about $90 without handles. But it casts beautifully and drains my 20 lb pot in no time at all. I powder coat mine and seat to 1.120" OAL and they never fail to feed. Determining your barrel diameter and sizing .001"-.002" over is half of the equation. The other is getting an expander that opens the case more than one designed for a jacketed bullet. The stock 9mm powder funnel/expander on my Dillon has a diameter of .350" and the cast boolit was being swaged down as it was seated. Accuracy was miserable and inconsistent. The one I bought from Lathesmith (on this forum) measures .356" and it was the key to accuracy in my Glock 23 (LWD conversion barrel). That and reading just about every post regarding cast boolits and 9mm that I could find here.

One more thing...don't crimp the bullet too much. You only want to remove the 'flare' created by the expander.

[onelight]

If an empty case that has been sized binds in the chamber and factory loads will plunk with out binding then your sizing die is off or you brass is bulged to close to the case head to be corrected with standard sizing for that barrel.
You may need to run your cases through a bulge buster . If sized empty cases will not chamber correctly I don't see how they can get better after after seating a bullet in them.

[remy3424]

For figuring out the right crimp, what worked for me was taking a case that you have sized and expanded. Then back out the seater plug and raise the seating/die up in the press. With the caser in the press, raise it into the die, all the way, now begin to lower the die until it is contacting the flaired case mouth. Then keep lowering and checking until the case will drop into the chamber of the barrel you are going to shoot these through. Worked for me, gives you the least required crimp. This might help, you will at least know the crimp isn't the issue anyway. I do think, as it has been said, it is an expander issue. Keep at it, you will get it right....and then don't touch those dies! On a Dillon, I also got an expander funnel from Lathesmith and in my turret press have the Lee 38S&W expander in that die...both set-ups work. I also am PCing with Smokes powder and size to .357 or .358 after PC in my Lyman 450, seems to work in my XDm pistols.

[fredj338]

I hear about leading in Glock bbls but I shoot mostly coated lead bullets. I do my own, PC & HT, but sometimes buy them. I used to use only 0.357" bullets but in mixed brass would get too many that wouldn't chamber, so I went back to 0.356". I shoot mostly range scrap & water drop out of the oven after coating. I don't have leading issues or loss of accuracy. Maybe just lucky but they work in all my 9mm, Glock OEM, after market or my Springer 1911. Shooting off a rest @ 25y I have not seen better accuracy sized 0.356, 0.357 or 0.358".
SOme barrels can just be rough & without lapping will always lead, regardless of the alloy or coating. They will also copper foul badly in my exp.

[onelight]

I hear about leading in Glock bbls but I shoot mostly coated lead bullets. I do my own, PC & HT, but sometimes buy them. I used to use only 0.357" bullets but in mixed brass would get too many that wouldn't chamber, so I went back to 0.356". I shoot mostly range scrap & water drop out of the oven after coating. I don't have leading issues or loss of accuracy. Maybe just lucky but they work in all my 9mm, Glock OEM, after market or my Springer 1911. Shooting off a rest @ 25y I have not seen better accuracy sized 0.356, 0.357 or 0.358".
SOme barrels can just be rough & without lapping will always lead, regardless of the alloy or coating. They will also copper foul badly in my exp.

I shoot with 2 other guys 1 has almost all Glocks between us we have at least 12 different 9mm pistols we all load 125 gr .356- 357 bullets Hi-Tek coated and to add to the controversy we all use the carbide factory crimp die.
We normally shoot 50 to a 100 rounds per gun that we bring to the range none of us get any noticeable leading We clean each trip. I don't know why this works So well for us . I load mine hot enough to always have the slide lock back and still provide enough accuracy to work for how we shoot. Both my range partners load a little hotter than I do. This is not once in a while we shoot twice a week . Usually 1 or 2 of us bring a 9mm of some kind.
We all 3 use BE-86 and WW primers , I also use red dot on occasion.
I am with you some guns are just contrary. but frequent cleaning may prevent buildup that gets bad enough to notice . It seems some people take pride in not cleaning.:veryconfu

[Andy45]

Thanks for the info!

I already obtained a custom expander die for my Dillon press from Lathesmith.

And I've been using a light taper crimp on 9mm for many, many years.

Andy