Reloading question about grain weight.

[usmc0811]

I have some 95 grain LRN .380 I want to load up, however the only data I can find in my 3 manuals does not show a load recipe for the 95gr. LGN only 90gr.
Now I always forget, is it ok to load up using a recipe for a slightly lighter bullet or a slightly heavier bullet using the same data as log as you start low and work your way up?
The powders I have on hand and will be using are Unique, and Bullseye. I also have HP-38 but dont see that one mentioned in my 3 manuals so Im not going to be using it.
Any other suggestions as well. Thanks.

[Valornor]

It is ok to substitute a lighter bullet if all you have is a heavier bullets load data. The example would be if you had load data for a 100gr bullet and you wanted to load for a 95gr bullet.


Using a heavier bullet in place of a lighter bullet will increase pressure.

In your case, have you check Alliant’s website? Sometimes there is loaded data published online that is more up to date then what is publish in the manuals. You might find something there.



Jay Andrew
www.theballisticassistant.com

[usmc0811]

It is ok to substitute a lighter bullet if all you have is a heavier bullets load data. The example would be if you had load data for a 100gr bullet and you wanted to load for a 95gr bullet.


Using a heavier bullet in place of a lighter bullet will increase pressure.

In your case, have you check Alliant’s website? Sometimes there is loaded data published online that is more up to date then what is publish in the manuals. You might find something there.



Jay Andrew
www.theballisticassistant.com

Thanks for the information. I will check it out now.

[Winger Ed.]

I'm a big Unique fan for .380.

You can't get enough powder in the case to hurt yourself.

[country gent]

You can use heavier data with a lighter bullet as a starting point start light and work up slowly and carefully. To use a heavier bullet with lighter data takes some math. Figure the percentage of how much heavier the heavy bullet is then reduce the starting load this much then another 5% and work up from there.

You can usually find data somewhere to get a starting point. I prefer loading manuals but powder manufacturers, bullet manufacturers, and some other sites can be used for a starting point. Un supported data should be checked with a manual or other sources and worked up to.

I load a 100 grn cast bullet in 380 acp as a duplication load for the rem GS load I carry in them. One thing important is the 380 is a small case and light charge so a small jump is a big change and pressures can jump quickly.

[mdi]

I just started reloading 380 (realized I didn't have a 380 so I had to buy one) and see the same lack of data for a 95 gr. cast bullet. In our case 5 grains isn't a "dangerous" difference, but care should be taken. I started with starting loads for 90 gr. bullets and haven't had any problems. I certainly will not use near max.

BTW my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #3 shows data for a 92 gr. RN which could be used without going to max.

In typical "normal" instances a lighter bullet can safely use a heavier bullet's data. But as always start at the minimum and work up...

[6bg6ga]

I've started halfway between the min and max load for that bullet without a problem.

[usmc0811]

In typical "normal" instances a lighter bullet can safely use a heavier bullet's data. But as always start at the minimum and work up...
Ok thanks. I just found in my manual it shows 102gr. LRN using 4.6gr of bullseye as a starting point, so I should be ok to start here using my 95gr bullet?

[usmc0811]

BTW my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #3 shows data for a 92 gr. RN which could be used without going to max.


Would you be able to take a picture of that and post it for me to see???

[6bg6ga]

Ok thanks. I just found in my manual it shows 102gr. LRN using 4.6gr of bullseye as a starting point, so I should be ok to start here using my 95gr bullet?

That is not right.

In my manual it shows a 90gr with a starting load of 2.4 gr of bullseye and a max of 3.0 gr. DO NOT LOAD THAT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!! Caution WILL Robbinson

Sounds like you are in 9mm reloading data.

[usmc0811]

In your case, have you check Alliant’s website? Sometimes there is loaded data published online that is more up to date then what is publish in the manuals. You might find something there.



Jay Andrew
www.theballisticassistant.com
I did check their webpage and didnt see the information i needed.

[6bg6ga]

If you look at the 100gr jacketed data and the 92 gr lead data they are pretty close on the 380. One could probably venture between 2.4gr of bullseye and go toward a max of around 2.7 watching for signs of pressure and so forth.

Lymans 46th and 49th editions

[6bg6ga]

I have some 95 grain LRN .380 I want to load up, however the only data I can find in my 3 manuals does not show a load recipe for the 95gr. LGN only 90gr.
Now I always forget, is it ok to load up using a recipe for a slightly lighter bullet or a slightly heavier bullet using the same data as log as you start low and work your way up?
The powders I have on hand and will be using are Unique, and Bullseye. I also have HP-38 but dont see that one mentioned in my 3 manuals so Im not going to be using it.
Any other suggestions as well. Thanks.

Your first post...

My data for a 92 gr bullet shows bullseye at 2.4- 3.0 and 231 2.3-3.5 gr Now HP38 is supposed to be the same as 231.

[usmc0811]

That is not right.

In my manual it shows a 90gr with a starting load of 2.4 gr of bullseye and a max of 3.0 gr. DO NOT LOAD THAT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!! Caution WILL Robbinson

Sounds like you are in 9mm reloading data.

OK I will not. I will try to upload a picture to show you what I am looking at. Thanks and thats why I ask a lot of questions before I continue loading and learn this the safe way.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Ok thanks. I just found in my manual it shows 102gr. LRN using 4.6gr of bullseye as a starting point, so I should be ok to start here using my 95gr bullet?

usmc0811, that 4.6 gr Bullseye is for 9mm, not .380.
My Lyman Cast Bullet Manual 4th edition shows the following for Lee 102 rn for the .380 ACP:
Bullseye 2.6 - 3.0
Unique 2.9 - 3.3

[usmc0811]

That is not right.

In my manual it shows a 90gr with a starting load of 2.4 gr of bullseye and a max of 3.0 gr. DO NOT LOAD THAT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!! Caution WILL Robbinson

Sounds like you are in 9mm reloading data.

You are 100% correct I was looking on the next page which was 9mm data!!!!! I really need to pay more attention, thank you for bringing this to my attention.

[usmc0811]

usmc0811, that 4.6 gr Bullseye is for 9mm, not .380.
My Lyman Cast Bullet Manual 4th edition shows the following for Lee 102 rn for the .380 ACP:
Bullseye 2.6 - 3.0
Unique 2.9 - 3.3

Yes I was just informed about that, you guys are great and very knowledgeable I am glad to be here on this web forum learning from all you. I will pay more attention in the future, no excuse on my part.

[6bg6ga]

Don't beat yourself. You posted the info we were lucky enough to catch the error. The main thing is you are safe and you didn't blow up the gun or get anyone hurt that might have been near you.

[onelight]

The more manuals you have the better comparing loads in different manuals will cause you to take another look at a load from one that is way out of line of the others and catch mistakes be it our mistake or the data we are looking at. And there are manuals with questionable or dangerous data.
You may also want to keep a log when working up loads to know what works well for you and will save you from doing it all over . I don't depend on my memory for load data.

[Jniedbalski]

Bullseye always worked great for my cast loads in the past. Also worked good in 9mm and 32 acp.,just watch out for double charges. Even in the small 380 case bullseye fills vary little space,but a bottle last so long. I like it

[6bg6ga]

I'll add something to think about...

Some powder measures will not measure down to the small grain loads. My Dillon powder measures will not go down to 2.0 grains even with the small powder bar. Powder measures like the lock and load Hornady that have micrometer barrels inside will measure down accurately.

Sometimes (my experience here) 380's can ripple the case wall no matter how good your setup is. (Insert the I don't have the Dillon 380 die set here) With my RCBS dies I set them up to insert the bullet to the correct height and very slightly crimp the case followed by another crimp only stage in which I use a 9mm taper crimp die. The results are every case comes out perfect with no ripples in the case wall.

[kmw1954]

Looking in my Lyman Pistol & Revolver Handbook I also see two examples, a 92gr RN and a 100gr TC..

My thinking is that by looking at the profile of the 92gr Lyman bullet and comparing it to the other mold of the same profile that are advertised as 95gr. I would tell myself that they are close enough to be one and the same. Just a change in alloy could be a change of 3gr in the same mold. So any published starting data for that 92gr bullet should be more than safe to begin with.

In my case I am using a 100gr cast RN bullet that also has no published load data. So being a bit more experienced I used the adage I see repeated over and over that cast data and plated data are one and the same, interchangeable. I don't completely agree with that statement but it got me to a starting point.

[6bg6ga]

The more manuals you have the better comparing loads in different manuals will cause you to take another look at a load from one that is way out of line of the others and catch mistakes be it our mistake or the data we are looking at. And there are manuals with questionable or dangerous data.
You may also want to keep a log when working up loads to know what works well for you and will save you from doing it all over . I don't depend on my memory for load data.

Very good advice on having more manuals. Your correct this makes you take the A manual and check it against the B manual.

With respect to manuals giving questionable data..... some of the older manuals did have heavier loads but one needs to remember that load pressure in some powders hits a high point followed by a slight decline in pressure followed by yet another peak. The older manuals did more load evaluation and testing and pushed loads to the max. I've personally shot some of these loads and some were more accurate for some reason and recoil well lets just say it felt different and leave it at that. Some of us older guys have experienced and know how to use some of the older data safely.

[6bg6ga]

Looking in my Lyman Pistol & Revolver Handbook I also see two examples, a 92gr RN and a 100gr TC..

My thinking is that by looking at the profile of the 92gr Lyman bullet and comparing it to the other mold of the same profile that are advertised as 95gr. I would tell myself that they are close enough to be one and the same. Just a change in alloy could be a change of 3gr in the same mold. So any published starting data for that 92gr bullet should be more than safe to begin with.

In my case I am using a 100gr cast RN bullet that also has no published load data. So being a bit more experienced I used the adage I see repeated over and over that cast data and plated data are one and the same, interchangeable. I don't completely agree with that statement but it got me to a starting point.

There is going to be a slight difference in friction between the jacketed bullet and the cast as well as a difference in bullet profile. All things given I generally will use the weight of the bullet in my determination but then again that just me.

[cainttype]

One other thing to keep in mind is that there are exceptions to every rule, and bullet weight vs powder charge is not as predictable as one might think.
Seating depth will be a large contributor to overall pressure, too.. So something like a 38/357 and a 148 grain wadcutter can easily develop dangerous/extreme pressures with powder charges that are totally safe with a 160 SWC when both are seated to their proper OALs.

[kmw1954]

There is going to be a slight difference in friction between the jacketed bullet and the cast as well as a difference in bullet profile.

Who said anything about a Jacketed bullet? No me. For as long as I have been reloading plated bullets they have routinely been describes as being loaded to cast bullet levels and I have had way too many discussions with others trying to refute that claim.. Also that claim that plated bullets are the same as cast bullets. This to the point that I have been called names because of my view.

There are many different parameters that can and will change a bullets performance besides just weight and material makeup,
such as shape as you say and also bearing surface area.

But I will stick with my statement that this 95gr bullet that is being described if it is the same profile as all others I have seen including commercial cast then in my view it is close enough that the data for the Lyman #356242 will work just fine.

[beshears]

Load data list Bullseye 2.0 to 2.8 and Unique 2.3 to 3.1 95 grain 380