PDA

View Full Version : Rifle vs. pistol



Lowbudget12
12-28-2019, 08:20 AM
I am very new to the casting obsession, I have been working on bullets for my ruger 44 sbhh. Im getting ready to start on 9mm. I have a remington 700 aacsd in 308. I have developed a couple of hunting rounds for it with jwords. I was wondering how hard would it be to cast a good hunting round for it?

Tatume
12-28-2019, 09:45 AM
Easy. Just get the C309-170-F mold from Lee and a supply of gas checks, and you're off to the races.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010210460?pid=574963

This is a very accurate cast bullet, and is one of the most effective 30 caliber cast hunting bullets.

Hickory
12-28-2019, 10:01 AM
You could ask for people to send you boolits to try, unsized and unlubed of course.

Der Gebirgsjager
12-28-2019, 11:11 AM
For .308 you'll most likely want to use gas checks, so buy a mold for a boolit that accepts them.

robg
12-28-2019, 11:29 AM
Lee boolits work very well in a 308, gascheck tumble lube suitable powder job done.

rintinglen
12-28-2019, 11:39 AM
A 311-041 with a suitable ration of Varget,4895, or WW-748 giving 1800-2000 FPS will kill any whitetail ever bred. There are many, many molds that will do what you want. My favorite is the RCBS 30-180 FN. I have loaded and shot many pounds of them in my 30-30’s.

trapper9260
12-28-2019, 12:04 PM
Here is a post that is about the 308win that might help you

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?387293-Cast-and-the-308-Win

Also here is a list of what Larry Gibson say that will work in the 308 Win,
Molds from Larry Gibson for 308 Win
My preferred mould/bullet for the .308 and several other 30 cal cartridges has become the NOE 30 XCB (310-165-FN). It has proven to be very versatile in velocity range and accurate out to 600 yards. As I was out of my "match select" XCBs and needing to cast some more on Monday I shot up the last of my "fouler/sighter" 308Ws I had loaded for my Match M70. I managed 3 sub or moa ten shot groups with them. Load was 23 gr RL7 w/Dacron filler running at 1980 fps. My second choice for 100 yard match level accuracy is the Lyman/Loverin 311466 (NOE makes that one also) or the RCBD 308-165-Sil.
Other moulds of 150 gr or more that I've used with very good success in the .308W over the years are the Lee C312-155-2R, the CTL312-160-2R and the C312-185-1R is proving to be a better Lee mould choice.
The MP 311-1655 and MP 311-180s also are excellent .308W cast bullet though I do not like the moulds in brass but prefer the aluminum blocks.
The other Lyman Moulds I've used with excellent results are the 311299 and the 314299 (in worn throats) and NOE also make replica of those.
Bottom line, for target/accuracy shooting I highly recommend the NOE 310-165-FN XCB bullet

dverna
12-28-2019, 12:13 PM
WHY?

It makes no sense to turn a .308 into a .30/30...or worse. Unless you are very talented/knowledgeable or lucky, that is what you will do after spending a bit of coin and lots of time. I paid $150 for 500 Sierra GameKings and was able to find a sub MOA load in less than 50 rounds. I typically fire 5-10 shots a year to check zero, and harvest one or two deer. For $150 I have a much better bullet (greater accuracy, greater range, no first shot out of the group, and more reliable expansion) than I can cast. Enough bullets to last a lifetime of hunting.

I tried working up a cast load in a .30/30 and gave up. It was not worth the effort. I got to about 1600-1700 fps but could not duplicate factory performance. Tried the .308 and gave up on it as well.

I have shot a lot of cast bullets in pistols and rifles...over 250,000. But I hunt with jacketed bullets.

Go for it with your eyes open and realistic expectations. It can be done (many here have done so), it is not easy (every gun, bullet, alloy and lube is different), and you will not save much for your effort. For me, cast bullets are for inexpensive rifle plinking and pistol shooting. It is blasphemy to say it on this site...but it is the truth as I know it. YMMV

BTW, trying sample bullets is a great suggestion. There are guys here that cast excellent bullets and that is a plus if you are new to casting. Also, some bullets will not work well from one gun to another no matter what you do.

Good luck.

Edit tot add:

Look at Trappers post carefully. Larry Gibson is one the best. He ends his recommendation with "for target/accuracy shooting". Before investing, reach out to Larry to get his recommendation for a hunting load. Alloys for target work are generally too hard for hunting. He is a wealth of knowledge.

charlie b
12-28-2019, 01:38 PM
I agree. It is my thread referenced above. I do not hunt at all anymore. I note in the thread that Montana Bullet Works has a variety of bullets that you can buy before spending a lot of money on a mold that might not work for you.

Working up a cast load is not as easy as jacketed, but, it is not extremely difficult either. Just some more variables to play with. The first key is to slug your barrel to make sure you size the bullets correctly. Decide on lube or powder coat. Lube is critical in rifles and may change based on outside temperatures. Typically the best accuracy will be when the velocity is kept below ~2000fps but some are pushing that up to jacketed bullet velocities.

After a relatively short period of time I have several loads with three different bullets that all shoot 1 1/2 MOA or better out to 300yd.

Hunting is not that big a deal as long as you realize the limitations of shooting a lower velocity solid. I would choose a heavy bullet with a large flat nose.

Conditor22
12-28-2019, 03:02 PM
Easy. Just get the C309-170-F mold from Lee and a supply of gas checks, and you're off to the races.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010210460?pid=574963

This is a very accurate cast bullet, and is one of the most effective 30 caliber cast hunting bullets.

usually cheaper @ Amazon

Tatume
12-28-2019, 03:32 PM
usually cheaper @ Amazon

$22 at Amazon, $17 at Midway. $5 shipping both places. Easy enough to check before making the claim.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=c309-170-f&ref=nb_sb_noss

onelight
12-28-2019, 03:56 PM
WHY?

It makes no sense to turn a .308 into a .30/30...or worse. Unless you are very talented/knowledgeable or lucky, that is what you will do after spending a bit of coin and lots of time. I paid $150 for 500 Sierra GameKings and was able to find a sub MOA load in less than 50 rounds. I typically fire 5-10 shots a year to check zero, and harvest one or two deer. For $150 I have a much better bullet (greater accuracy, greater range, no first shot out of the group, and more reliable expansion) than I can cast. Enough bullets to last a lifetime of hunting.

I tried working up a cast load in a .30/30 and gave up. It was not worth the effort. I got to about 1600-1700 fps but could not duplicate factory performance. Tried the .308 and gave up on it as well.

I have shot a lot of cast bullets in pistols and rifles...over 250,000. But I hunt with jacketed bullets.

Go for it with your eyes open and realistic expectations. It can be done (many here have done so), it is not easy (every gun, bullet, alloy and lube is different), and you will not save much for your effort. For me, cast bullets are for inexpensive rifle plinking and pistol shooting. It is blasphemy to say it on this site...but it is the truth as I know it. YMMV

What you posted makes total sense , but 99% of what most of us do with guns and reloading has nothing to do with best or need . We do it because we want to.:smile:

fcvan
12-28-2019, 06:02 PM
That does it. I need to set up a 'meat shoot' at the local range. Top shooter gets a tri-tip, second gets hamburger, third gets Spam.

Just kidding, top shooter should get Elk, and so on. Can of Spam should be a target.

Tatume
12-28-2019, 06:08 PM
Cool! Now that would be fun!

onelight
12-28-2019, 06:49 PM
That does it. I need to set up a 'meat shoot' at the local range. Top shooter gets a tri-tip, second gets hamburger, third gets Spam.

Just kidding, top shooter should get Elk, and so on. Can of Spam should be a target.
I hope only 3 of us show up I like spam :-P

fcvan
12-28-2019, 07:05 PM
The Spam comment was in jest, I like Spam too. They really like Spam in Hawai'i, even had it on the menu at Denny's. But seriously, a meat shoot would be a fun gimmick to get folks to bring their girls or guys, guns and grills, burgers and brats, and make it a pot luck.

The range my Dad and Mom took us to 50 years ago was family friendly. My cousins were always there as was my best friend. It didn't hurt that my friend was 2 doors down, my cousins were across the street, and all the dads were very good friends.

Memories like those are the kind that help the next generation carry on the interest in our sport/hobby. It is especially important that young people are taught safety and are truthfully exposed to the reality of responsible firearm ownership. It will help them see through the BS the MSM spews. As one member here would say "Kids who hunt and fish Don't mug old ladies."

brewer12345
12-29-2019, 04:58 PM
Back to OP, yes, you should absolutely have fun developing loads for your 308. There are a ton of 30 caliber molds out there and I am still playing with different variants in my 30-06. For hunting purposes, you ideally want a bullet with a big flat nose. Something between 150 and 200 grains would be great and you don't want to cast too hard. 12 BHN with a reasonable amount of tin will be great, although you can go softer still. I worked up a load for my 30-06 that throws a 200 grain flat nose bullet at around 1900 FPS and does a bit over 1 inch groups at 100 yards. It was more than adequate for an 80 yard shot on a mulie doe. Accurate enough for a heart shot, through and through penetration, and even got expansion based on the size of the exit wound. If you enjoy working up loads, there is great satisfaction in hunting with your own cast.

I will be fooling around with the Lyman 311291 round nose soon and if it shoots well I might gin up a hunting load based on 16 to 1 as a tough, soft alloy to make up for the round nose.

Land Owner
12-29-2019, 08:33 PM
I agree with dvema. This is the era of flat shooting rifles.

Saying that, buffalo, bear, deer, moose, elk, et al, were killed for a Century with CAST boolits before the invention of smokeless powder or jacketed bullets.

Both are great for hunting. It boils down to what we decide is fun and humane in the taking of wildlife.

Know your load and rifle, practice, and be confident in that first shot.