View Full Version : Lee I think you are missing the boat .
12-13-2005, 05:21 PM
Lee has lots of $$ wraped up in cherrys from group buys like ours and other custom orders .
Why not offer to cut a mold for a guy , like me that missed the group buy .
I would expect to pay more than a standard mold , but I would have what I want .
Put the drawings on the web for us to choise from .
Have the cherrys in a computer index to be auto pulled .
Sent down to the right mill to be used , 6 gang , 2 gang or single hole .
The molds then could be auto stamped with ID numbers .
The cherry then could be auto returned , till needed again .
Then ship the molds to me .
The reason I was thinking of this .
I was working in a Hardware stores warehouse today .
Most orders come in over the web .
A robot pulls most of the products out of the bens , places them in shipping crates and sends it to shipping without being touched by a person .
All bar code sorted .
I am sure there would be some up front cost , but I would think the payoff time would not be that long
Someone once said Lead , follow or get out of the way .
Hey Lee how about Leading on this .
12-13-2005, 05:34 PM
Umm, Lee doesn't use cherries. They use a CNC machine and cut the molds on a lathe.
BUT once the programing is in the machine, they could duplicate the mold with ease. Its a matter of making the proper boring tool.
12-14-2005, 12:36 AM
...............David's right and each mould will require several different tools in an indexable holder to be presented at the right time in the process.
If you'll notice many of Lee's own designs mimic each other quite a bit in some features, regardless of diameter. Look at thier 30 cal moulds. Mostly all share the same body (drive bands-lube groove) design, they're all bore riders and only a couple different noses.
This economizes and greatly simplifies their tool inventory, as the tool for each different feature has to be ground. I would suspect for longevity and rigiditys sake, their tooling may well all be carbide, and carbide is ground best with diamond wheels. Carbide is also much more expensive then even cobalt bearing type high speed steel.
So part of the expense in a custom mould run for Lee is the fact that they very well may have to grind several new cutting tools to meet nose radius requirements, etc.
12-14-2005, 03:37 AM
Actually from conversation with Doug at lee, they DO use a form tool on the bullets with low length/dia ratios, like most pistol bullets, the long slender bullets typically rifle bullets they single point bore. It is similar to a cherry, but has only one cutting edge, They move it into a roughed out cavity and feed it over to cut the form of the cavity. If and exactly how Lee manufactures this tool I do not know.........In todays world it would not be very cost effective to make them yourself, it may in fact be that much of the $100.00 setup fee they make us pay or earn (by buying 25 or more molds) is the cost of ordering (2) form tools for the job....1 SHOULD be enough..but murphy is always lurking about.
HOWEVER, once the program is written, and the tools made (form tool) the next time the job should run smoother and faster, BUT not as smooth and fast as normal production moulds with cast in stone dimensions. Lee has always asserted itself as the ones in charge of making the rules, and I cannot fault them on that. They have indentified how they make money, and they do so. We can ask nicely, but I can predict they will say NO.
12-14-2005, 04:09 AM
[QUOTE=Buckshot Look at thier 30 cal moulds. Mostly all share the same body (drive bands-lube groove) design, they're all bore riders and only a couple different noses. Buckshot[/QUOTE]
I haven't seen a bore rider nose in the lot, they are all undersize and don't ride the bore until they slump over.
12-14-2005, 06:14 AM
>Carbide is also much more expensive then even cobalt bearing type high speed >steel.
This situation is in flux too, soon it will be about break even, if it isnt now. Scrap M42 HSS is worth over $2 per lb, carbide is $6
Carbide tools are made from blanks, no heat treat required, and the material is MUCH nicer to grind than steel, it does not shrink or grow as much from the heat of grinding..and simply turns to dust....I did OD and ID grinding of carbide and HSS for a couple years, the carbide was much nicer to work with overall.
For some applications now HSS is almost required because carbide is too brittle......
12-17-2005, 10:47 AM
swheeler, Both you and 45.21 are correct: The Lee C-309-200R is indeed a bore-rider, but with a nose too small to do so in standard/typical .308" (.308Win. & .30-06) bbls. However, the undersized noses may fit the .30-30Win. a bit better and the K-31's a whole lot better. Btw, the problem of undersized bore riders isn't confined to Lee, but is pretty typical of Lyman's [.30cal.] molds and even Cramer/Saeco's. (Ask Buckshot about my RG-4.)
Now for some newbie assistance. The very first mould I bought was a 309-170 Lee. When I chamber this into my ballard cut 336A the rifling engraves on the nose. The nose tapers from about .300 to .303-4 to the dirving band at the crimp groove. I have not tried this boolit in other .30's but wouldn't this be considered bore riding size?
12-19-2005, 01:07 PM
Lee has nothing wraped in the tooling for custom group buy molds. We paid Lee to grind those tools. Lee charges $150 tooling fee for these orders.
01-10-2006, 06:46 PM
<<<<[ Btw, the problem of undersized bore riders isn't confined to Lee, but is pretty typical of Lyman's [.30cal.] molds and even Cramer/Saeco's. >>>
NEI has the same problem. I have a .224 70 gr bore rider. The nose is .317. It will nor ingrave in the .318 land diameter. I sent it back and they sent another one. It also has a .317 nose. I believe they have only one cherry for this mould.
01-10-2006, 08:02 PM
Both my c309-170f and c309-200r are @.302 on the nose with my favorite alloy!, the fat thirties are the ones that are way undersized- same nose on them! With Lee it's "luck of the draw"! Sometimes you can gain enough dia. with alloy adjustment to make them fit closer to your needs.
c309-200r in 30-06 REM
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