30-06 vs 308 which is best to cast for?

[Al_Bundy]

I'm eyeing a savage bolty only $200 at basspro for this weekends shopping but i cant convince myself which caliber would i prefer between these two. I plan on casting and powdercoating them so velocity would have to be low, dont plan on gas checking either. I also want to take into account that i'd prefer an economical load and i notice the 30-06 has a large case volume and that could mean 50+ grains of powder... Could i get some of your thoughts or experiences on these two and if you cast for them also, how did it go?

so far all i know much of these is that the 30 has more velocity and more recoil over the 308 but they are both practically on the same level of accuracy.

[tazman]

I am also interested in the answer to this question.

[bmortell]

30-06 can still go very low and both can do 3gr bullseye type mousefart loads or more mid range unique-2400 loads, just maybe less powder options or efficiency in the bigger case with light loads. but I think the longer 30-06 neck is an advantage for cast so idk. I think id want a 308 with a 30-06 neck if I could have anything. if you don't plan on long boolits and want low to mid speed then 30-06 might not offer anything, but theres people who have been loading much longer than me

[Al_Bundy]

30-06 can still go very low and both can do 3gr bullseye type mousefart loads or more mid range unique-2400 loads, just maybe less powder options or efficiency in the bigger case with light loads. but I think the longer 30-06 neck is an advantage for cast so idk. I think id want a 308 with a 30-06 neck if I could have anything. if you don't plan on long boolits and want low to mid speed then 30-06 might not offer anything, but theres people who have been loading much longer than me

yeah i was just reading some loads off a book and noticed unique was listed around 10-20grs with most of the bullet designs for both calibers. I also find it easier to collect 308 brass on the range, so right now im leaning towards that. Do you recommend any of the lee molds?

[John McCorkle]

From a pure best caliber standard I'd say the long neck of the 30 06 has the advantage...brass is still very easy to find for cheap and free from some on a public range but not nearly as plentiful as a 308. I have hundreds of piece of 308 I've accidentally collected with other brass...it's just so plentiful.

Both are similar, I've never loaded cast for 308, but 30 06 runs the Gambit of mouse fart to heavy elk killers...all with cast. Does well paper patched as well.

You won't go wrong with either, either way it's a great deal... enjoy!

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[Bigslug]

Can't tell you a durn thing about powdercoating, but. . .

.30-06 will give you more room in the neck, and there are more mold choices with lube grooves that are proportioned for that neck. You've also got more magazine and throat to shoot heavier bullets, which has some advantages if the velocities are low. The 311299GC is my go-to bullet for accuracy.

For the .308, I wouldn't look much further than this: http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=30_325&osCsid=g1hrqilhr12rrrp55bikskos24 Proportioned specifically for the .308 SAAMI neck and chamber. I LOVE plinking water bottles with the GC version of this one - it hits HARD.

Thing is, anything the .308 can do, the .30-06 can do - with the added option of doing it 150-200fps faster when you venture into jacketed. Both have their purpose, and I wouldn't be without either, but if it had to be one, it's got to be the '06.

[charlie b]

Well, I can tell you I use cast in my 12BVSS .308 and it works great. Both for std cast loads at 1900-2000fps and for plinker loads at less than 1000fps.

The plinker loads worked just fine with .30-30 cast bullets (flat point, no gas check) for lower velocities. My light load is 8gn of Blue Dot (only cause I have a few pounds that I don't use for anything else). Also works well with my 180gn Lee bullets, both lubed and powder coated. It shoots MOA with both of these. FWIW the base of the 180gn Lee is seated just at the case neck with the Savage throat. The RCBS 165SIL seats the same. The 311299 seats a tad deeper and also works well. All of these are bore rider bullets.

For really light loads the .32 pistol bullets sized to your barrel work at very low velocities.

There are also several folks in the Cast Bullet Assn shooting the .308 at bench matches.

I will say that there are some who will recommend the .30-06 based on the longer neck, but, it also has a ton of extra volume for cast bullet velocities. It will shoot them well and it is used in the service cast bullet bench rest matches a lot.

If you were going to shoot heavier jacketed bullets I'd go with the 06 as it does have a velocity advantage, especially for hunting game like bear and elk. For target work the .308 has been a favorite for target shooters for many years.

So, take your pick.

[brewer12345]

30-06. Anything you can do, I can do better...

30-06 can go pretty low. I have lots of fun with a lee soup can over 12 grains of Unique. Haven't tried anything lighter, but I imagine it would not bee hard. On the other end of the spectrum I shot my doe last year with a 200 grain slug that had a huge meplat and cooked along at 1900 FPS or so. Any of course J words would get you a 400 yard elk load without much trouble.

[lotech]

I have yet to find this a disadvantage, but longer bullets like the #314299 and many others, may require seating with the bullet base slightly below the case neck when using the .308 case. This could also happen with the .30-06, but not as often.

[Petrol & Powder]

I cannot offer an opinion on cast bullets between those two cartridges.

I will say that I am a HUGE fan of the 308 Win and know for a fact that it will do everything the .30-06 will do until you get way out beyond 600 yards. The .30-06 is a fine cartridge but it's really overkill in terms of case capacity unless you're dealing with 180 grain plus bullets and trying to shoot things at extreme ranges.

The longer case neck of the .30-06 may be a slight advantage for cast bullets but the smaller case capacity of the 308 may be a bigger advantage if you're using small amounts of a fast burning powder.
I don't really know when we're talking about cast bullets.

My best guess would be that the type of bullet would have a larger role than the type of casing when dealing with that class of rifle cartridge.

[dverna]

I hope that Larry Gibson sees this and offers his opinion.

It would help to know what the rifle will be used for. If it will not be a hunting rifle, and just used to punch paper, the .223 is worth consideration. I buy 55 gr jacketed SP's for $7/100. Not worth the effort to cast IMHO. Plus so easy to get an accurate load that is fun to shoot....But I am a shooter not a caster. If you get your jollies out of casting, my choice would be the .308 for you purposes...less case capacity helps for reduced loads. And with your desire not to use GC's, no concerns about the GC being below the neck when using longer bullets.

[popper]

308 is fine, I shoot it (fast) with 170gr PC all the time, no problem. I have other rifles for slow plinkers, but the 308 will do fine. Last 06 I shot was a garand in 61.

[waksupi]

Both will do the same thing. I was shooting cast from a .308 I had, I think it was a Lee 160 gr. with Felix Lube, at 2350 fps, good accuracy. Killed some deer and an elk with it.

[Larry Gibson]

Given the rifle the OP is considering it will have the same length and twist of barrel along with length of action, bedding etc. Thus for cast bullet shooting purposes was a time when the '06 with it's longer neck held the advantage because most cast bullet designs were for the longer necked cartridges. These days with the advent of so many custom mould makers and that most "modern" designed cast bullets are for the shorter 308W length neck. Thus with the use of a proper powder and/or the use of an appropriate filler the slight advantage the 308W had with it's lessor case capacity is negated. New commercial cases are readily available for both for the same price. Given both cartridges in the rifle the OP is looking at will have 10" twist barrels there is no difference in attainable performance with the same cast bullet in either. Since I shoot cast in several rifles of both cartridges I can't honestly say I've got a "favorite" between them.

On the other hand, If hunting with cast bullets of larger game such as elk, moose or the large bears then the 30-06 is the better choice simply because when loaded to the same psi in a modern action such as the OP is considering Then the 30-06 will out perform with any bullet weight, but particularly with 180 - 220+ gr bullets, the 308W always. My choice of a hunting rifle has been either my Mauser M98 or my M70 Winchester chambered in 30-06 with 24" barrels. I load those with 165 - 220 gr bullets to top end MAP psi's for the .308W of 62,000 psi as measured in the rifles with the Oehler m43 PBL. Such a load using the 180 gr Hornady SPBT over IMR 4831 runs 2840 fps at 61,700 psi. There is no way the 308W with it's lessor case capacity can come close to that.....with the 190 SPBT, 200 gr Speer SPs or 220s the difference is even greater......I know, been there, done tried......

Bottom line is; these days with cast bullets not a nickels worth of difference between them in the same rifle. However, if hunting larger game with the rifle also then the 30-06 has the edge.

[Tripplebeards]

The 30-06 loaded with 220 Grain factory Remington Core-locts hits with authority. I gave a box to my buddy About 15 years ago that I never used. He hit a deer running full throttle and it flipped it sideways in the air and it hit the ground DRT. I’m a big fan of 180 grain Remington Core-Locts in the 06’. Never tried any cast yet though. All I know is that the six will handle heavier bullets if you ever want to hunt big game. I loaded him up some 200 grain Nosler partition’s for bear hunting he never had a chance to use either.

[dakota]

I suppose an argument could be made that the 30-30 is the perfect 30 caliber for cast bullets. While I have had numerous 30-06's and 308's over the years, I've only shot cast bullets in the '06's (03's and 03-A3') and 30-30, (Model 94, 64 and 336). Both cartridges handled cast bullets well.

[trapper9260]

I use cast for 30-30 ,308win. and 30-06 . Like Larry stated is what would work the best on one, the 30-30 is a good brush gun and the 308 win like Larry said and 30-06 will do what he said also

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Cast bullet shooting at the range, not much difference. If you have to carry the rifle in steep or high mountains, the 308 can be a 1/2 pound lighter. If you want to haul a M98 Mauser or M70 Winchester for extra power, get a 300 Magnum. I've killed a few elk with 308 and 165 Partitions, works just fine. Cast on elk? Start with a .358 Winchester and go up.

[HangFireW8]

If you have a standard 1-12" .308Win, you might see a small accuracy and velocity advantage with light to mid weight cast boolits. Unfortunately some manufacturers engage in cost savings and use the same 1-10" barrel blanks as 300WM and 30/06.

For most purposes, the 30/06 will more easily feed and chamber longer and heavier boolits, and keep most of their gas checks in the neck, if that matters to you. On top of that many cast boolit designs were made for the '06 in the first place. So for versatility the /06 wins hands down. As far as overall accuracy, it depends more on the load, the rifle and the shooter than anything else, it would take a full-up benchrest rig to really ring out the difference (in favor of the 308).

[fiberoptik]

I suppose an argument could be made that the 30-30 is the perfect 30 caliber for cast bullets. While I have had numerous 30-06's and 308's over the years, I've only shot cast bullets in the '06's (03's and 03-A3') and 30-30, (Model 94, 64 and 336). Both cartridges handled cast bullets well.

.30 US (.30-40) best cast .30 round.
http://www.lasc.us/FryxellCB30-40Krag.htm

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[Shiloh]

Both shoot very well when you develop a load.

Shiloh

[Photog]

I cast 125 Lee RN (M1 carbine profile) and 175 Lee RN in 309, load them in 30-30, 308, and 30-06. The light boolits are fun to shoot, and cheap to cast and load. Titegroup or American Select for real light loads works good, TG is more accurate, AS is cleaner. the 175s drop at 179ish, and work really good on top of Power Pistol for that mid-fast but still reduced load. If I had to pick only one, it would probably be the 30-06. But I really like 30-30 too, so really its a tossup.

[10x]

I cast 125 Lee RN (M1 carbine profile) and 175 Lee RN in 309, load them in 30-30, 308, and 30-06. The light boolits are fun to shoot, and cheap to cast and load. Titegroup or American Select for real light loads works good, TG is more accurate, AS is cleaner. the 175s drop at 179ish, and work really good on top of Power Pistol for that mid-fast but still reduced load. If I had to pick only one, it would probably be the 30-06. But I really like 30-30 too, so really its a tossup.

If the rifle will be a dedicated cast bullet rifle , then 308.
Locally 308W brass is the most common once fired pickup brass at the local gun range.
The short magmum brass and 7 mm rem brass are hit and miss.
30-30 brass at the local range is rare.

I have gone to a Savage 99 and a Savage axis in 308W for 30 caliber cast bulle shooting simply because there is so much once fired pick up brass in 308W
With power coated cast bullets the 308W does pretty much the same as the 30-30 and 30/06 with bullets up to 170 grains under 2000 feet per second

My stash of 30/06 brass has been eaten up by a 9.3x62 and a 9.3x57 - both of which may be considered "almost obsolete" but are rewarding to shoot.

[dakota]

If you need 30-06 brass, I have way more than I'd be able to shoot in my life time. Same with 308 brass, actually I sold my last 308 and I've been converting my 308 brass to 300 savage brass.

[poppy42]

Wow! Not quite as bad as asking which is better than 9 mm or the 40 Cal but I’m sure you’ll get lots and pros and cons out of both camps . How to the point, based on the fact that you said you’re looking at a savage in the price range of $200 I’m making an assumption that you’re talking about an axis. If I’m wrong I apologize and you can pretty much tell us my post out . The reason I am responding is that a couple years back I bought myself an access in 30.06 and my son one in 308. On our first outing to the range I was packing 180 grn Remington core-lokt for the 06, my son had 150 grn Remington core-lokt for the 308. Both rifles were identical purchase same time same place just different calibers. Not that this is really a fair comparison because it’s only two rifles but I will tell you that my 06 was considerably more accurate than his 308 was both were more than adequate as a hunting rifle which is primarily why we purchased them. I will say because of how light the rifles are ( composite stocks ) that the 308 with the 150 grain projectiles was a little more pleasant to shoot. Now I know 180 grains are available for for the 308 it is at the upper limits and I would stick towards the 150 grain range. I chose the 30.06?for his versatility. I know I can load and shoot from 113 grains all the way up to 220 grains with the 06. That pretty much covers the gambit of anything I’m going to hunt with my old eyes in the lower 48. As far as cast bullets go I load and shoot 113 grain cast from a Lee mold and 170 grn cast from a Lyman 311291 mold. Both with adequate accuracy. Unfortunately I’ve had a little bit of a falling out with my son so I don’t know if he shot any cast out of his 308 . What I will say is that I am sure,depending on what your intended use is, either caliber in that rifle is capable of adequate accuracy . Just remember if you are talking about a savage axis I don’t believe they were ever designed to be tacked drivers . As a hunting rifle or 100 yard plinker either caliber will suit your needs , Especially for the price . I paid over twice the price you quoted. Pack for that price if I had the money I’d go pick me up another one in a different caliber . I’ve heard of 223 makes a pretty decent little varmint gun OK. Anyway hope any of this helps . Good luck enjoy be safe and have fun

[centershot]

Just pick one. Really. If the short action fells better in your hands and mounts and points better, there's your choice. If it's the long action, then so be it. The way the rifle fits you will make more difference than the caliber will. And, YES, you can seat boolits with their gas checks below the case neck just fine, w/o problems. It's always worked for me. :coffee:

[charlie b]

FWIW, my Axis in .223 is a 1/2MOA rifle or better with good bullets. A bit better than MOA with the cheap bullets. Axis barrels are made on same line as the rest of their rifles. But, it is harder to find one with a heavy barrel.

[Forrest r]

Your better off with the 30-06.

The 30-06 has longer necks that keep a larger number of bullets bases out of the boiler room and keep them in the case neck where they should be.

The 30-06 has an excellent chamber compared to the 308w in the case neck area.
30-06 ='s .340"
308w ='s .344"

That 4/1000th's makes a huge difference when it comes to the cast bullets alignment & the affects on the cast bullet with the short start pressure of the load.

A couple years back I ordered a custom bbl from shilen , I had it chambered in 308w with a .340" neck.

[Sig556r]

If you need 30-06 brass, I have way more than I'd be able to shoot in my life time. Same with 308 brass, actually I sold my last 308 and I've been converting my 308 brass to 300 savage brass.

I've got an incoming CMP M1 garand that'll be needing some brass, let me know if your surplus still available.
Thanks,
Sig