Question about bag vs possession limits

[Patrick L]

Ok I have a question about hunting limits. We were having a debate at the gun club tonight.

A daily limit is obvious, that's how many animals you can shoot in a day.

What exactly is meant by a possession limit? I always thought that meant like "in your possession while out hunting" For example, lets say the daily limit on pheasant is 2, and the possession limit is 4. If you get pulled over and you have 4 or fewer pheasants you're OK.

But what if you go hunting 5 different days, and shoot 2 pheasants each day. You take them home, process them, and freeze them. You have not exceeded your daily limit, but you have 10 pheasants in the freezer.

Is this a violation of the possession limit???? I never thought this was a violation, but the majority of the boys said it was.

[Winger Ed.]

To a Game Warden, 4 in possession, means 4 in possession while they are standing there looking at your stuff.

If the game doesn't require a individual tag, and you want 10,
take four home over two days, eat them,
then go out hunting again for 2 days and get 4 more, and so on.
It works the same as catch & posession limits for fishing.

Here, deer require a individual tag.
If your limit is 4, its for the whole year if you get one a week, or 4 in 10 minutes.

For birds & fish, its while the Warden is looking at your catch.
If you have a 2 a day limit on something and you have 4 in possession----
You better have some camping gear and ice chests.
If you have 4 and they are all fresh kills---- you got a real expensive problem.

[Rcmaveric]

Florida has it set to a daily limit and possession limit. My understanding is daily limit is set to what can be harvested in a day. Possession limit is what is in the freezer. Like deer, here is four possession limit for a season and daily bag limits. So if if I have four deer in the freezer and I eat one. I can go get another one. As long the freezer never has more than four in it.

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[M-Tecs]

Ok I have a question about hunting limits. We were having a debate at the gun club tonight.

A daily limit is obvious, that's how many animals you can shoot in a day.

What exactly is meant by a possession limit? I always thought that meant like "in your possession while out hunting" For example, lets say the daily limit on pheasant is 2, and the possession limit is 4. If you get pulled over and you have 4 or fewer pheasants you're OK.

But what if you go hunting 5 different days, and shoot 2 pheasants each day. You take them home, process them, and freeze them. You have not exceeded your daily limit, but you have 10 pheasants in the freezer.

Is this a violation of the possession limit???? I never thought this was a violation, but the majority of the boys said it was.

They are correct. Possession limit is total amount you can have period. That includes at home in the freezer even if it's from last year or 10 years ago.

[fiberoptik]

So who are these “freezer police[emoji61]“? I would like to see them invade & inspect!
Might have to majorly rearrange the freezer for someone big…

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[Rcmaveric]

At least in the fine print in here, it says by purchasing a hunting or fishing liscnence you consent to a searches.

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[Patrick L]

I guess I will concede that you (and the guys at the club) are correct, but that just seems absurd. Of course, many laws are.

I mean, a possession limit should allow for what you can legally hunt in a season. Who are they to tell me when I have to eat my game?

Granted, the chances of ever getting called out on this are remote, but what a stupid law!!!

[DDriller]

The possession limit if for population control. If everybody went out every day and got their daily limit the population of the game would go down too much.

[JimB..]

I think it seems stupid because you’d never think to abuse it, but consider that a guy could take his limit 4 or 5 times a day, warden sees him coming and going all the time for a couple weeks. Never catch him holding too many, but might just want to make sure that there isn’t something stupid going on back at the ranch, say a wild game business.

[M-Tecs]

So who are these “freezer police[emoji61]“? I would like to see them invade & inspect!
Might have to majorly rearrange the freezer for someone big…

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https://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2014/08/do-game-wardens-have-the-same-powers-as-police-officers.html

Game Wardens May Have Expanded Search Powers
In some instances, game wardens may actually have more power than police officers when it comes to warrantless searches of persons or vehicles.
Typically, police officers must have probable cause or consent to search a person or a vehicle without a warrant. A 2012 California Supreme Court case found that even when a game warden lacks reasonable suspicion that a person has violated an applicable fish or game statute or regulation, they may still stop the suspect's vehicle and demand the suspect display any fish or game in the suspect's possession.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/game-wardens-do-not-need-warrants.223926/

"Search with or without Warrant

The laws in many U.S. states allow game wardens to conduct certain types of searches with or without search warrants. The law in Louisiana for instance states in part "...any commissioned wildlife agent may visit, inspect, and examine, with or without [a] search warrant, records, any cold storage plant, warehouse, boat, store, car, conveyance, automobile or other vehicle, airplane or other aircraft, basket or other receptacle, or any place of deposit for wild birds, wild quadrupeds, fish or other aquatic life or any parts thereof whenever there is probable cause to believe that a violation has occurred. Commissioned wildlife agents are authorized to visit or inspect at frequent intervals without the need of search warrants, records, cold storage plants, bait stands, warehouses, public restaurants, public and private markets, stores, and places where wild birds, game quadrupeds, fish, or other aquatic life or any parts therof may be kept and offered for sale, for the purpose of ascertaining whether any laws or regulations under the jurisdiction of the department have been violated...."[4] The laws in other states may grant more or less search and seizure authority. These exceptions granted to game wardens are still considered to fall within the constitutional limits of search and seizure as outlined in the U.S. Constitution."

[lefty o]

possession typically means how many you have with you, and how many you have at home in the freezer too.

[Land Owner]

Hmmmmmmm……..I wonder if the possession limit in one's home State extends to and includes deer harvested in and brought back from another State where the limits are greater?

Theoretical Question: If the possession limit in SC is 8 (say) and in FL is 4, can I have 12 in the freezer at home in FL in a single season?

[dangitgriff]

Possession limits are meant to prevent commercial sales of wild game products by anyone without the proper state license.
Game wardens (wildlife officers) here in Florida can go wherever they have physical access to. They can cut locks on gates if they have reason to believe illegal harvesting of game is occurring—anywhere. None of this requires a warrant, although I believe one would be obtained if they wanted to search your freezer in your house.
R/Griff

[trapper9260]

Years ago I had the Game Warden stop by while I was setting beaver traps .I seen him speed down the road and pull in fast where I was park. He got out and seen who I was and since he know me . He said I know I wasting my time . But I like to see your fur harvest lic. I show it to him and then he ask to check my SUV at the time and said ok. He check my traps for tags and did see the traps was all tag he seen . Then we talk some and then left. Yes the Game Warden have more power then the Police or Sharif dept. ,I understand why also. There is some good ones out there dose not abused there job on doing it. The you got those that dose.

[NyFirefighter357]

They are correct. Possession limit is total amount you can have period. That includes at home in the freezer even if it's from last year or 10 years ago.

This is correct. I just found this out a few months ago.

[Petrol & Powder]

What constitutes an animal for the purpose of determining a limit? A freshly killed deer is undoubtedly a deer. A field dressed deer is a deer. Ground venison wrapped in freezer paper and in a freezer, probably isn't identifiable as a particular deer at that point.

I don't think game wardens are interested in how much venison, rabbit or other meat someone has in their basement freezer.

Bag limits and possession limits are tools to define wildlife conservation efforts. It's easy to comply with those laws; stay at or under your daily bag limit and stay within the possession limits.

[truckjohn]

Typically - possession limits become important when you are out on a big multi-day hunting or fishing trip..... Say you are out for a duck hunting and camping weekend and there is a 2 per day limit/5 possession. You hunt 4 days and bag 6 which are in the cooler in your boat. You have exceeded the possession limit and would be in violation.

Stuff like this has become more of an issue in places like Louisiana where people travel out by boat and do multi-day hunting and fishing out on the bayou....

Theoretically - they can check your freezer at the house, but it is more likely they would simply check your truck or cooler when you are out in the woods or wherever.

My own feeling is that possession limits are there to put limits on poaching.... Sure - you could legally take 15 crappie per day for 6 days straight - but it's just more likely that you are poaching if you have 80 in your cooler in your boat...

[Petrol & Powder]

truckjohn - you're right on point.

Possession and bag limits are enforcement tools. Laws that make certain activities criminal must define what that action is. The law can't just say that it is illegal to poach, it must define exactly what poaching is.

The game wardens are not out to "get" sportsmen. They are enforcing the game laws. Those laws must be created in such a way that the illegal activity is defined. Your hypothetical example of duck hunting with a 2 per day bag limit and a 5 bird possession limit is a good example. If the hunter exceeds the 5 bird possession limit; he/she is in violation. That's a clearly defined law.

[Petrol & Powder]

And while we're on the topic. Bag limits would be meaningless without accompanying possession limits.

Let's say there is a two duck per day bag limit but no possession limit. An unethical hunted could kill two ducks, take those ducks to: his camp, his car, his truck, etc. and then go back and kill two more ducks. He could repeat that cycle indefinitely and never be over the two bag limit. So in order to make an effective law the legislators add a possession limit to the bag limit. The legislative goal isn't to punish someone with a freezer full of ducks because they store their friend's and family's game in one place - the goal is to close the loophole of the unethical hunter.

[dale2242]

fiberoptic, Game wardens in Oregon are Oregon State Police officers.
With the proper search warrant , they are the "freezer police"...dale

[tomme boy]

Here you can not have any game left over from the year before unless it is PROCESSED. Which means it has to be turned into something else. Hamberger, sausage....... If it is still in the legal taken way, you can be charged if the fish has to be left with the skin on. Game has to be left with a head, wing, or leg on if there are multi species like birds. I can't remember what they charge you with if you do have game left over with.

[rl69]

This is how the state of Texas defines possession limit

Possession limit (hunters)
The maximum number of any animal or bird that may be possessed by any person at any place. This limit only ceases when a bird or animal is legally finally processed or reaches its final destination. Final processing may only occur at final destination or cold storage facility.

[Petrol & Powder]

It's REAL simple - when you reach you daily bag limit, you stop hunting for the day. When you reach your possession limit, you stop hunting for the season.

If you have full, unprocessed carcasses in your freezer that exceed the number you may possess for the season, I have to wonder why you would want more?

If you're riding down the road with 27 dead deer on the back of your truck, that might be of some concern to a game warden.
I have NEVER met a game warden that cares, even a little bit, about how much deer meat, cleaned fish, fully dressed pheasant or whatever......you have in you freezer.

When you reach your season's limit - YOU STOP.
See how easy that is ?

[M-Tecs]

What constitutes an animal for the purpose of determining a limit? A freshly killed deer is undoubtedly a deer. A field dressed deer is a deer. Ground venison wrapped in freezer paper and in a freezer, probably isn't identifiable as a particular deer at that point.

I don't think game wardens are interested in how much venison, rabbit or other meat someone has in their basement freezer.



Not true. Game wardens routinely check freezers when they believe there is abuse. They also use DNA to determine the number of animals in possession. The key is abuse. When they suspect abuse they tend to get very interested in what's in your freezer.

[Petrol & Powder]

Not true. Game wardens routinely check freezers when they believe there is abuse. They also use DNA to determine the number of animals in possession. The key is abuse. When they suspect abuse they tend to get very interested in what's in your freezer.

You must live in a very draconian state.

[M-Tecs]

You must live in a very draconian state.

North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming and Minnesota all use DNA testing and freezer checks when abuse is suspected. Frankly I would be surprised if all states don't. While is it true that Game wardens currently have more power than most LE that power was limited in the late 80's or 90's. If I remember correctly that was by the SCOTUS. In the past game wardens would be used to enter homes to do a game checks than if drugs were observed the game warden would hold the evidence and people until a warrant for the regular LE was issued.

[Duckiller]

And don't keep venison in your freezer for 10 years. A long time ago when I was growing up Michigan had a law that you had to consume your deer entirely within 60 days of the end of the season. This was in the late 50's. I am suspicious that they have not repealed that law. Also suspicious that other states have similar laws. Venison in the freezer in July may have been poached.

[rl69]

To me processed would be in a state ready to be cooked ?

[Tom W.]

It used to be here that you could have two does or a buck and a doe daily from the start of bow season to the end of January. And there were people that abused that. From October 15 to January 31 is a lot of days, and should you be able to get the daily limit I'd suspect that you would need a commercial walk in freezer.
I'd generally get two deer early during gun season and wait for a big one for the rest of the season. Sometimes it was good, sometimes not.....

[Petrol & Powder]

Not true. Game wardens routinely check freezers when they believe there is abuse. They also use DNA to determine the number of animals in possession. The key is abuse. When they suspect abuse they tend to get very interested in what's in your freezer.

Define "routinely".

[M-Tecs]

Define "routinely".

As I CLEARLY stated when they suspect abuse. Check out any of the news reports when people are caught with large amounts over the daily limit. When that happens they tend to do a home freezer inspection.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm confused again. What do you mean by processed? If I've dressed them, cut them up, and frozen them in neat little packages, is that Ok? It's not like I have intact birds, feathers and all.

Petrol & Powder, not to be a wiseguy, but I can definitely see a need for more than 4 pheasants. That's like 2 meals. 27 deer is something else altogether.

Just because you "see a need" for more than 4 pheasants doesn't mean you get to make your own laws.
I can "see a need" to pay less income tax but that doesn't mean I'm special.

What is your total limit for the season?
4 Pheasants total per hunter for the entire season OR 4 whole, unprocessed Pheasants at some location other than the ultimate destination?

If the daily limit is 2 birds per person and 4 in your possession before you process them, then each hunter can take 4 birds before they must take them home and process them. I don't know the NY limit, if that 4 bird limit only applies to unprocessed birds, then you can clean those birds, put them in your house and go back hunting again. If that 4 bird limit is the total limit for the season - you get your 4 birds and you are DONE for the season. If you don't like that limit, lobby your legislature or move to a state with limits you like.

You don't get to legally take more birds just because you disagree with the law.

[lefty o]

the thing about not having huge possession limits, it ideally helps to deter people from going out shooting their limit, going home and putting them in the freezer, then going out and shooting another limit, etc, etc. most that get caught with possession limits are those that get caught grossly exceeding bag limits, or they had bragged to people about how many they have in the freezer and were reported. really two choices here, obey limits so that there remains good huntable and fishable populations of animals in the future, or care only about yourself and be a poacher.

[Petrol & Powder]

As I CLEARLY stated when they suspect abuse. Check out any of the news reports when people are caught with large amounts over the daily limit. When that happens they tend to do a home freezer inspection.

In my area I can recall 3 cases in the last 40 years in which search warrants were executed for potential game violations.
One was a criminal group involved in a multitude of felonies and one of the schemes was poaching bear and selling the gall bladders to Asian buyers
One was a company systematically killing protected birds of prey
and one was a restaurant serving uninspected wild game (that was more of a health code violation than a game violation)
NONE of the cases involved search warrants because Billy Bob had too many deer in his freezer.

I can't speak for Minnesota but game violations in Virginia are about on par with parking violations and overdue library books. Search warrants for game violations are not "routine".

[M-Tecs]

The definition of possession varies from state to state and even within the state depending on species.

I will use North Dakota as an example since they recently changed the law to not include game at home in the freezer except for waterfowl.

https://gf.nd.gov/fishing/regulations-guide
The daily creel limit is defined as the maximum number of legally taken fish (by species) that may be harvested from midnight to midnight. No individual may harvest or possess more than North Dakota’s daily limit of fish while on the water, ice, or actively engaged in any manner of fishing.

The possession limit is defined as the maximum number of legally taken fish (by species) that an individual may have in their actual possession during any phase of any single fishing trip of more than one day. At no time may an individual transport more than a possession limit without written approval of the Game and Fish director.

The storage limit at one’s residence is unlimited.

https://gf.nd.gov/regulations/small-combined#upland

“Daily Bag Limit” (Daily Limit) is the maximum number of a particular game that one hunter, legally licensed by this state, may take or kill during a single hunting day, within the boundaries of this state.

“Possession Limit” is the maximum number of a particular game species that a hunter, legally licensed by this state, may have in his/her actual possession during any phase of any single hunting trip, venture, or expedition of more than one day. No more than one daily limit may be taken on any one day. The possession limit at one’s personal permanent residence, except for waterfowl and migratory game birds, is not limited.

“Possession Limit for Waterfowl and Migratory Game Birds” is the maximum number of migratory game birds of a single species or a combination of species permitted to be possessed by any one person when lawfully taken in the United States in any one specified geographic area (typically a state, Indian reservation or a hunting unit or zone within a state) for which a possession limit is prescribed.

[M-Tecs]

In my area I can recall 3 cases in the last 40 years in which search warrants were executed for potential game violations.
One was a criminal group involved in a multitude of felonies and one of the schemes was poaching bear and selling the gall bladders to Asian buyers
One was a company systematically killing protected birds of prey
and one was a restaurant serving uninspected wild game (that was more of a health code violation than a game violation)
NONE of the cases involved search warrants because Billy Bob had too many deer in his freezer.

I can't speak for Minnesota but game violations in Virginia are about on par with parking violations and overdue library books. Search warrants for game violations are not "routine".

Game wardens don't need a warrant to do a freezer inspection in some states.


this is both political, and legal... so I am posting on the same topic in both places.

Be aware that you have no rights of privacy in the world of Conservation Officers.

It varies from state to state, and I am compiling a complete list of states in which Game Wardens can:

"34. Examine, without a warrant as provided by law, any vehicle, creel, land or water conveyance, fish box, cooler, game bag or any other place where evidence of a crime may be hidden or transported whenever there is reason to believe that a violation of state law has been committed."


They have the "right" to be on your private property, without warrant on suspicion of ANY crime. They have the right to inspect ANY container, regardless of it's location (for instance a freezer in your basement, whether or not that freezer exists).

This is not conspiracy theory. This is fact.

"Search with or without Warrant

The laws in many U.S. states allow game wardens to conduct certain types of searches with or without search warrants. The law in Louisiana for instance states in part "...any commissioned wildlife agent may visit, inspect, and examine, with or without [a] search warrant, records, any cold storage plant, warehouse, boat, store, car, conveyance, automobile or other vehicle, airplane or other aircraft, basket or other receptacle, or any place of deposit for wild birds, wild quadrupeds, fish or other aquatic life or any parts thereof whenever there is probable cause to believe that a violation has occurred. Commissioned wildlife agents are authorized to visit or inspect at frequent intervals without the need of search warrants, records, cold storage plants, bait stands, warehouses, public restaurants, public and private markets, stores, and places where wild birds, game quadrupeds, fish, or other aquatic life or any parts therof may be kept and offered for sale, for the purpose of ascertaining whether any laws or regulations under the jurisdiction of the department have been violated...."[4] The laws in other states may grant more or less search and seizure authority. These exceptions granted to game wardens are still considered to fall within the constitutional limits of search and seizure as outlined in the U.S. Constitution."

[Petrol & Powder]

Well in my state game wardens have SOME LIMITED authority to make warrantless searches BUT that authority doesn't extend to residences:

Virginia code § 29.1-208. Searches and seizures.


All conservation police officers are vested with the authority to search any person arrested as provided in § 29.1-205 together with any box, can, package, barrel or other container, hunting bag, coat, suit, trunk, grip, satchel or fish basket carried by, in the possession of, or belonging to such person. Conservation police officers shall also have the authority, immediately subsequent to such arrest, to enter and search any refrigerator, building, vehicle, or other place in which the officer making the search has reasonable ground to believe that the person arrested has concealed or placed any wild bird, wild animal or fish, which will furnish evidence of a violation of the hunting, trapping and inland fish laws. Such a search may be made without a warrant, except that a dwelling may not be searched without a warrant. Should any container as described in this section reveal any wild bird, wild animal or fish, or any part thereof, which has been illegally taken, possessed, sold, purchased or transported, the conservation police officer shall seize and hold as evidence the container, together with such wild bird, wild animal or fish, and any unlawful gun, net, or other device of any kind for taking wild birds, wild animals or fish which he may find.


SO, if that freezer is in your home, they NEED A WARRANT.
AND- the exceptions to the warrant requirement are contingent on an arrest.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title29.1/chapter2/section29.1-208/

[megasupermagnum]

It must be a Minnesota thing, because our game wardens are blatant here. I can't think of a single hunter who HASN'T had an officer walk into their house and check the freezer. It's a lot better now, they at least have to wear orange during deer season. Before they would wear their brown coats and watch from a tree stand. The old "kill site" transportation law got more than a few poor hunters. I haven't had it happen to myself yet, but as a kid we had a warden show up out of the blue. He searched the house, found nothing, and went on his way.

One story my dad still tells to this day was ice fishing in a shack. Me and my brother were very young, maybe 4 and 6. We could have 2 lines down, so there were 6 down total. Nothing was happening, so my brother and I ran out the door to go play. Sitting on his snowmobile was the game warden, who quickly ran in the door without knocking. At the time an "attended" line was in direct visual sight, tip ups were not even legal. My dad got cited for 4 extra lines down that day.

Long story short, game wardens can be jerks, are allowed to go far beyond law enforcement, and unfortunately most in MN are jerks. This is a huge contradiction to law enforcement which are mostly good, and do follow laws as intended.

As for possession limit, it could vary by state. Here, it's just the maximum number you can have. You can eat them, but you can't process (turn into steaks, sausage, brats, etc.) them and continue to hunt. I don't know what Petrol & Powder is going on about. There is no season limit on birds (with a few exception like turkey and swan). Pheasants, ducks, geese, grouse, etc. only have a daily and possession limits. A possession limit is NOT a yearly limit.

Edit: A quick search has not turned up any recent change. As far as I'm aware, a MNDNR officer may enter a residence without a warrant, and they certainly have used that excuse plenty.

[Patrick L]

Petrol and Powder, I don't like your tone.

I started this thread to ask a simple question. I expressed an opinion that I thought the possession limit seemed small give what a daily bag limit was, considering the length of the season. Just because I expressed that opinion, I am NOT implying that I feel I have the right to exceed any limits set by law. Quite the contrary, I was looking for clarification of something I was confused about so that I would NOT be in violation of the law.

Thanks for the lecture.

[Petrol & Powder]

While many states give game wardens a board amount of discretion to conduct warrantless searches, I know of NO states in which that discretion to violate the 4th amendment extends to a dwelling.

I've heard the myths about the "all powerful game warden" my entire life. The stories all revolve around the misconception that game wardens are somehow above the 4th amendment by virtue of their status as game wardens.

By the nature of their work, game wardens often must operate in remote locations and deal with highly mobile suspects. To answer those issues, most states give wardens greater leeway in search and seizure powers IN THE FIELD.
No state gives them carte blanche to enter HOMES without a search warrant.

Stories about, "I heard about a guy who's house was searched by game wardens without a warrant" are about as credible as the current forth party hearsay being submitted in the impeachment hearings.

Cue REO Speedwagon's, " heard it from a friend who.....heard it from a friend who.....heard it from another......"

[Petrol & Powder]

Petrol and Powder, I don't like your tone.

I started this thread to ask a simple question. I expressed an opinion that I thought the possession limit seemed small give what a daily bag limit was, considering the length of the season. Just because I expressed that opinion, I am NOT implying that I feel I have the right to exceed any limits set by law. Quite the contrary, I was looking for clarification of something I was confused about so that I would NOT be in violation of the law.

Thanks for the lecture.


You're the one that said you took 10 pheasants:

".....It just seems like the possession limits are pretty small, to be considered reasonable. We have a possession limit of 4 pheasants. Between my son and I, we have taken 10 pheasants this fall, never exceeding the daily limit of 2.

Then you said "......I can see a need for more than 4 pheasants......"

Did I miss something?

You said you violated the law and then justified that violation by saying you could see a need.

"Seeing a need" isn't much of a legal defense.

[Patrick L]

Megasupermagnum,

Thank you for your reply.


Massachusetts (where I often pheasant hunt) has a daily bag limit (2), a possession limit (4), and a total season limit (6). So my confusion is, if I reach my season limit, without ever exceeding the daily bag limit, but I haven't eaten any yet, just butchered and froze them, am I in trouble?? It seems like I have exceeded my possession limit.

It may be a moot point, since I live in NY. I looked quick, and I don't see any possession OR season limits (except for a few WMUs right down near NYC, they do have a season limit of 30) in the syllabus, only a daily bag limit (same as Mass, 2.) So I think I may be OK.

[Patrick L]

I did not take 10. You misunderstood that. Between the two of us. Neither one of us has exceeded the season limit of 6.

[lefty o]

While many states give game wardens a board amount of discretion to conduct warrantless searches, I know of NO states in which that discretion to violate the 4th amendment extends to a dwelling.

I've heard the myths about the "all powerful game warden" my entire life. The stories all revolve around the misconception that game wardens are somehow above the 4th amendment by virtue of their status as game wardens.

By the nature of their work, game wardens often must operate in remote locations and deal with highly mobile suspects. To answer those issues, most states give wardens greater leeway in search and seizure powers IN THE FIELD.
No state gives them carte blanche to enter HOMES without a search warrant.

Stories about, "I heard about a guy who's house was searched by game wardens without a warrant" are about as credible as the current forth party hearsay being submitted in the impeachment hearings.

Cue REO Speedwagon's, " heard it from a friend who.....heard it from a friend who.....heard it from another......"

game wardens do not need a warrant to enter a dwelling in the state of MN.

[M-Tecs]

While many states give game wardens a board amount of discretion to conduct warrantless searches, I know of NO states in which that discretion to violate the 4th amendment extends to a dwelling.


This is the first one that popped up on google. While I have never have had my home inspected by a game warden I have been stopped on the interstate for game checks (once in ND and once in Montana). Same for DUI check points (4 times in MN, twice in ND, twice in Ohio and once in Hawaii). They are both clearly against the 4th but it happens all the time. Same for all the state laws that violate the 2nd. Back to home inspections personally know of three individual in two different states that had no warrant home entry. One spend over $30,000 fighting the no warrant entry and he still lost.

https://www.uslawshield.com/game-wardens-texas-immense-police-power/

Texas Game Wardens: What You Need to Know
Posted on September 4, 2017
Hi, I’m Richard Hayes, newest Independent Program Attorney with Texas LawShield®. As a former felony prosecutor, I worked closely with several game wardens and the Texas Department of Parks & Wildlife. After speaking with them and other folks, I saw there were some common re-occurring misconceptions that you need to know about. [Transcript below video.]


Game Wardens Are Police
First, game wardens are police. That means that they’re licensed peace officers in the State of Texas, and, arguably, they are some of the most powerful police in the state. They can inspect, search, seize, and arrest just like a regular police officer. And while most of the time they’re enforcing the Texas Parks & Wildlife Code, they have the full authority to enforce all other Texas criminal laws, including the penal code.
So, remember, when you’re dealing with a Texas game warden, you’re dealing with the police.
Game Wardens Have Broad Search Powers
Next, Texas game wardens have broad search powers.

We’re all aware of our Fourth Amendment, Constitutionally-guaranteed right against unreasonable search and seizure. But what does the Fourth Amendment mean when [you are] confronted by a Texas game warden? When can they search you or your property?
If a Texas game warden reasonably believes that you or someone else is engaged in a regulated activity, they can inspect any device used to hunt or collect a wildlife resource. Also, they can search any container or receptacle that is capable of concealing a wildlife resource or those devices. This includes vehicles, boats, game bags, freezers, coolers, or even something as small as an Altoids box that could contain a lure.
Game Wardens’ Jurisdictions?
But what about a Texas game warden’s jurisdiction? Well, just as wildlife go between city and county lines, so does the jurisdiction of a Texas game warden. Texas game wardens’ jurisdiction is statewide.
Also, they can go on to not only public, but also private, property to enforce game and wildlife laws. Texas game wardens are also one of the primary law-enforcement officers for enforcing boating laws in Texas. That means that they can board your vessel to make sure that your water-safety equipment is in compliance.
It doesn’t matter whether or not you’re engaged in hunting or fishing. What it comes down to is the wildlife code is complicated, and it can feel arbitrary at times. What that means is well-intentioned hunters and anglers sometimes find themselves on the wrong side of the law, as the saying goes.
The eyes of Texas are upon you, and Texas game wardens will go to great lengths to catch hunters and anglers who are hunting and fishing unlawfully.

Hunter Shield Protects Hunters and Anglers
Did you know that more than 16,000 violations are recorded by Texas game wardens every year? Mistakes in the woods and on water happen, and while unintentional, you could still be breaking the law.
If you have questions about year-round bird hunting regulations, Texas LawShield is here to help. Members of Texas LawShield’s HunterShield program have access to attorneys to get the answers they need concerning not only year-round game, but hunting and fishing laws in general. In addition, members are granted discounted entry to Sportsman Law Seminars. Seminars include access to former game wardens and attorneys who are also seasoned hunters. Add HunterShield to your existing Texas LawShield membership for only $2.95 per month.
Not a member of Texas LawShield? Join today to expand your education as a sportsman and ensure your hunting and fishing questions are answered by trustworthy sources who know the law.

[megasupermagnum]

While many states give game wardens a board amount of discretion to conduct warrantless searches, I know of NO states in which that discretion to violate the 4th amendment extends to a dwelling.

I've heard the myths about the "all powerful game warden" my entire life. The stories all revolve around the misconception that game wardens are somehow above the 4th amendment by virtue of their status as game wardens.

By the nature of their work, game wardens often must operate in remote locations and deal with highly mobile suspects. To answer those issues, most states give wardens greater leeway in search and seizure powers IN THE FIELD.
No state gives them carte blanche to enter HOMES without a search warrant.

Stories about, "I heard about a guy who's house was searched by game wardens without a warrant" are about as credible as the current forth party hearsay being submitted in the impeachment hearings.

Cue REO Speedwagon's, " heard it from a friend who.....heard it from a friend who.....heard it from another......"

I, first hand, witnessed a game warden enter our property, the garage to be exact, without a warrant and without knocking. I was just a kid at the time, and dad worked nights. I don't remember the exact circumstances, but mom let him into the house to check the freezers. So unless the attached garage doesn't count, it happened to us.

This was just a year or two after the ice fishing incident, likely the same guy. MN game wardens have left a sour taste in my mouth for most of my life.

@Patrick L, this is the first I've ever heard of a season limit on Pheasant. Likely what possession limit means in that case is for transportation. Meaning you cant hunt multiple days and drive home with more than 4 in the cooler. And of course you know that once you hit 6, you are done for the year, even if you eat them. I doubt party hunting counts in a place like that.

[Petrol & Powder]

I, first hand, witnessed a game warden enter our property, the garage to be exact, without a warrant and without knocking. I was just a kid at the time, and dad worked nights. I don't remember the exact circumstances, but mom let him into the house to check the freezers. So unless the attached garage doesn't count, it happened to us.

This was just a year or two after the ice fishing incident, likely the same guy. MN game wardens have left a sour taste in my mouth for most of my life.

@Patrick L, this is the first I've ever heard of a season limit on Pheasant. Likely what possession limit means in that case is for transportation. Meaning you cant hunt multiple days and drive home with more than 4 in the cooler. And of course you know that once you hit 6, you are done for the year, even if you eat them. I doubt party hunting counts in a place like that.

"....mom let him into the house to check the freezers..."
Sounds Like CONSENT to me. No search warrant needed and no 4th amendment violation.

Tell you what, I'm always open to learn something.

Find a published case where a game warden searched a dwelling without a search warrant, seized evidence of a game violation and that evidence was found to be admissible and I'll admit I'm wrong.

Has to be a published case, with named defendants, jurisdiction and date. Has to be a home: not just a truck, cooler, jacket, creel, etc.

In the meantime, I've been listening to this lore about game wardens being above the Constitution my entire life and I've yet to see a shred of evidence that supports that myth.

[rl69]

Megasupermagnum,

Thank you for your reply.


Massachusetts (where I often pheasant hunt) has a daily bag limit (2), a possession limit (4), and a total season limit (6). So my confusion is, if I reach my season limit, without ever exceeding the daily bag limit, but I haven't eaten any yet, just butchered and froze them, am I in trouble?? It seems like I have exceeded my possession limit.

It may be a moot point, since I live in NY. I looked quick, and I don't see any possession OR season limits (except for a few WMUs right down near NYC, they do have a season limit of 30) in the syllabus, only a daily bag limit (same as Mass, 2.) So I think I may be OK.


In Texas once the game has reached your home and has been butchered it no longer consederd game. I'm alowed 5 deer in Texas if I still have meat in the freezer from last year it dosent matter I can still take 5 deer this year

[M-Tecs]

While many states give game wardens a board amount of discretion to conduct warrantless searches, I know of NO states in which that discretion to violate the 4th amendment extends to a dwelling.

I've heard the myths about the "all powerful game warden" my entire life. The stories all revolve around the misconception that game wardens are somehow above the 4th amendment by virtue of their status as game wardens.

By the nature of their work, game wardens often must operate in remote locations and deal with highly mobile suspects. To answer those issues, most states give wardens greater leeway in search and seizure powers IN THE FIELD.
No state gives them carte blanche to enter HOMES without a search warrant.

Stories about, "I heard about a guy who's house was searched by game wardens without a warrant" are about as credible as the current forth party hearsay being submitted in the impeachment hearings.

Cue REO Speedwagon's, " heard it from a friend who.....heard it from a friend who.....heard it from another......"

Per Virginia code a dwelling needs a warrant. This is not true in a lot of other states. In Virginia anything other than a dwelling has zero 4th protection.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title29.1/chapter2/section29.1-208/

Code of Virginia
Table of Contents » Title 29.1. Game, Inland Fisheries and Boating » Chapter 2. Conservation Police Officers » § 29.1-208. Searches and seizures
Section
Print PDF email

§ 29.1-208. Searches and seizures.
All conservation police officers are vested with the authority to search any person arrested as provided in § 29.1-205 together with any box, can, package, barrel or other container, hunting bag, coat, suit, trunk, grip, satchel or fish basket carried by, in the possession of, or belonging to such person. Conservation police officers shall also have the authority, immediately subsequent to such arrest, to enter and search any refrigerator, building, vehicle, or other place in which the officer making the search has reasonable ground to believe that the person arrested has concealed or placed any wild bird, wild animal or fish, which will furnish evidence of a violation of the hunting, trapping and inland fish laws. Such a search may be made without a warrant, except that a dwelling may not be searched without a warrant. Should any container as described in this section reveal any wild bird, wild animal or fish, or any part thereof, which has been illegally taken, possessed, sold, purchased or transported, the conservation police officer shall seize and hold as evidence the container, together with such wild bird, wild animal or fish, and any unlawful gun, net, or other device of any kind for taking wild birds, wild animals or fish which he may find.
Code 1950, § 29-33; 1987, c. 488; 2007, c. 87.

[wills]

https://law.justia.com/cases/texas/court-of-criminal-appeals/1986/605-83-4.html

[megasupermagnum]

"....mom let him into the house to check the freezers..."
Sounds Like CONSENT to me. No search warrant needed and no 4th amendment violation.

Tell you what, I'm always open to learn something.

Find a published case where a game warden searched a dwelling without a search warrant, seized evidence of a game violation and that evidence was found to be admissible and I'll admit I'm wrong.

Has to be a published case, with named defendants, jurisdiction and date. Has to be a home: not just a truck, cooler, jacket, creel, etc.

In the meantime, I've been listening to this lore about game wardens being above the Constitution my entire life and I've yet to see a shred of evidence that supports that myth.

I think you missed the part where he opened our garage and started rummaging through our stuff. Us kids were told to stay put, we didn't know who it was. He didn't just drive up and knock, he parked somewhere else, and snuck into our garage.

[Patrick L]

Thanks for all the genuine, polite replies. Megasupermagnum, I would think that your interpretation is correct, but I think what I need to do is flat out ask a conservation officer. If I encounter one I will.

I apologize that this thread has turned into a shouting match of sorts. It was never my intent. I really did have what I thought was a simple question. And I NEVER intended my questioning of the rationale of a law to be ANY sort of justification for violating it.

[Petrol & Powder]

Per Virginia code a dwelling needs a warrant. This is not true in a lot of other states. In Virginia anything other than a dwelling has zero 4th protection.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title29.1/chapter2/section29.1-208/

Code of Virginia
Table of Contents » Title 29.1. Game, Inland Fisheries and Boating » Chapter 2. Conservation Police Officers » § 29.1-208. Searches and seizures
Section
Print PDF email

§ 29.1-208. Searches and seizures.
All conservation police officers are vested with the authority to search any person arrested as provided in § 29.1-205 together with any box, can, package, barrel or other container, hunting bag, coat, suit, trunk, grip, satchel or fish basket carried by, in the possession of, or belonging to such person. Conservation police officers shall also have the authority, immediately subsequent to such arrest, to enter and search any refrigerator, building, vehicle, or other place in which the officer making the search has reasonable ground to believe that the person arrested has concealed or placed any wild bird, wild animal or fish, which will furnish evidence of a violation of the hunting, trapping and inland fish laws. Such a search may be made without a warrant, except that a dwelling may not be searched without a warrant. Should any container as described in this section reveal any wild bird, wild animal or fish, or any part thereof, which has been illegally taken, possessed, sold, purchased or transported, the conservation police officer shall seize and hold as evidence the container, together with such wild bird, wild animal or fish, and any unlawful gun, net, or other device of any kind for taking wild birds, wild animals or fish which he may find.
Code 1950, § 29-33; 1987, c. 488; 2007, c. 87.

Apparently you missed the part about those searches must be predicated on an ARREST, supported by probable cause. So the 4th Amendment is alive and well.

§ 29.1-208. Searches and seizures.
All conservation police officers are vested with the authority to search any person arrested as provided in § 29.1-205 together with any box, can, package, barrel or other container, hunting bag, coat, suit, trunk, grip, satchel or fish basket carried by, in the possession of, or belonging to such person. Conservation police officers shall also have the authority, immediately subsequent to such arrest, to enter and search any refrigerator, building, vehicle, or other place in which the officer making the search has reasonable ground to believe that the person arrested has concealed or placed any wild bird, wild animal or fish, which will furnish evidence of a violation of the hunting, trapping and inland fish laws. Such a search may be made without a warrant, except that a dwelling may not be searched without a warrant. Should any container as described in this section reveal any wild bird, wild animal or fish, or any part thereof, which has been illegally taken, possessed, sold, purchased or transported, the conservation police officer shall seize and hold as evidence the container, together with such wild bird, wild animal or fish, and any unlawful gun, net, or other device of any kind for taking wild birds, wild animals or fish which he may find.
Code 1950, § 29-33; 1987, c. 488; 2007, c. 87.

[BrutalAB]

Back to the original question....

I would assume that it varies by state, but ky has done a pretty good job answering/explainin this on their website.

"How is the daily creel limit different than a possession limit?
The daily creel limit is the number of particular sport fish species you may keep in one day’s fishing. A possession limit is the maximum number of sport fish a person may hold in the field after two or more days of fishing."

I know this thread is more about game animals rather than fish, but to my knowledge ky doesnt have a posssession limit on deer.

I wondered about this question as a kid, but we never had anywhere near the possession limit of crappie it was like 60 or something, so it never was something i 'needed' to know the exact answer. But glad my state actually clairifies what possession is. Hope all of them do.

Source: https://fw.ky.gov/More/Pages/FAQ.aspx

[MT Gianni]

People in MT have been arrested for violating a possesion limit who were canning fish in a camp trailer then transporting. I have heard of warrants being issued to check game in a freezer to verify dna samples all showed from the same animals. This type of warrant would not be handed out easily, IMO.
In MT & ID possession limits mean what you possess in person. Canned were generally exempt if they were in your home or place of residence, but it would be a bad idea to have a cabin on a lake with 20 dozen jars of canned fish all having this years date if the possession limit was twice daily limit.

[Petrol & Powder]

Thank You MT Gianni for including the key word "Warrant" in your post.

Because the duty of a game warden requires operation in remote areas and they deal with very mobile people and very mobile evidence, the courts and various legislatures have granted game wardens a lot of leeway in conducting warrantless searches in the field, but one place the courts have NOT granted that warrantless search authority is within a person's home.

My entire adult life I've heard people falsely claim that game wardens have some superman like power to jump over the 4th amendment in a single bound. Despite the frequency in which that myth is repeated, it is not accurate.

If game wardens could arbitrarily search a home without a warrant, other police officers wouldn't bother to obtain search warrants for drugs, stolen property or other evidence,......... they would simply bring a game warden with them. ;-)

The mere status of being a game warden doesn't grant special authority outside of the Constitutional limits.
The law applies to everyone: you, me, the President, even...... game wardens.

For decades the courts have repeatedly held that a person's home receives the strongest protection under the 4th amendment. Even the almighty game wardens are bound by the Constitution, despite all the lore to the contrary.

[Hickory]

You must live in a very draconian state.

You should live in Ohio and have to deal with game wardens.
I feel like a Jew in 1939 Germany.
No exaggeration, true story.

[dangitgriff]

I did not take 10. You misunderstood that. Between the two of us. Neither one of us has exceeded the season limit of 6.

Florida clearly states in their WMA regulations brochures what the season limits for any particular game animal are. The daily bag/possession limit up to the season limit seems easy to understand.
I believe the only way around any of the limits is to eat it faster than you kill it [emoji1783]

[dangitgriff]

You should live in Ohio and have to deal with game wardens.
I feel like a Jew in 1939 Germany.
No exaggeration, true story.

One day while they were on the family property in Glouster, Ohio, my uncle’s red-headed girlfriend pulled out his Colt Match Target pistol and stuck it in a game warden’s face and told him to get off their property and never return...he left. Gotta love the ‘70’s. [emoji16]

[429421Cowboy]

Montana's laws regarding possession limits have been laid out well by MT Gianni, and I can tell you that people do get busted here for being over possession limits. These was a gentleman recently that got dinged for having piles of trout in his freezer from Canyon Ferry, and continuing to fish every day and bring limits home. I agree with the law for that reason, if you have a freezer full of fish at home, why not catch and release until you've eaten a few? He had more than a year's supply already even if that's all he ate (yuck) and he can't even be saving up for hard times or the end of the world because in that case the freezer would be out!
My question I need to ask a warden is on certain water bodies there are high daily limits and no possession limits at all. So if I have my possession limit of xx of perch from Pishkun in the freezer, but have hundreds of perch fillets from Holter where there was no possession limit until this year, how can anyone know? An imperfect law to be sure.
Another question would be the interpretation of "daily limit" among folks (not wardens). I interpret it as just that, how many I can catch/kill in a day, but I have known people who think that means you can catch a limit of fish in the morning or geese on the early flight, take them home then head out for the evening bite/flight and bag another limit.

[Lloyd Smale]

in Michigan possession is how many you have be it at the camp at your truck or in your freezer at home. Where ever a game warden checks you. I asked my dnr buddy yesterday about this. He said they do cut people slack. He said if he walks up to a camp site and a guy has more birds in possession then the daily limit it easy for an experienced officer to tell if they were just shot or shot yesterday. What he told me is he can about tell by the way people act and the expression on there face if there doing wrong or not. told me the ones he really likes busting are the bird hunters and fisherman who catch or kill there limit run home dump them off and go back for another limit.

[snowwolfe]

The general rule is:

"Possession limit" means the maximum limit in number or amount of wildlife which may be lawfully in the possession of any person. "Possession limit" shall apply to wildlife being in possession while in the field or being transported to final place of consumption or storage.

[mjwcaster]

Thanks for all the genuine, polite replies. Megasupermagnum, I would think that your interpretation is correct, but I think what I need to do is flat out ask a conservation officer. If I encounter one I will.

it.

The problem with asking a CO is you will only get their interpretation, not necessarily the actual law.
Same as asking any cop for legal advice, most do not know the laws.
But then again in my state, some of the states attorneys do not know the laws either.
And that is the real issue, the states attorneys should be in charge of ‘teaching’ the law, who else can a police officer turn to?

CO related- Illinois used to have a wonderful double standard on how to transport a firearm.
Criminal law- unloaded and in a case, glove box, console or other container, with container being undefined.

So you are driving, get stopped by the state police, have an unloaded gun in your glove box, back pack, whatever, and are legal to possess it you are fine, you get to go on your way.

Pull into the state park(DNR) get stopped by a conservation officer, same gun, same backpack and get arrested.
Why, because wildlife code required transport in a case or container specifically designed to transport firearms and fully closed.

This was changed a number of years ago.

8-10 months after the change I did a hunters Ed class and the state sends a CO out to give a talk about the law.
He states the wildlife code case interpretation and that they can/will still arrest for it.

I know better than to fight a losing battle, so I kept my mouth shut and just made a phone call Monday morning to the main office letting them know their officers do not know the law, please fix the issue.

I have had other personal experiences with cops not knowing the law, even had cops warn about officers not knowing the laws, especially if they have changed since they were first trained.

My favorite was a discussion about body armor legality, Officer was convinced body armor was illegal in this state because they had arrested and charged someone for it.
He wouldn’t listen, nor look up the actual law.
Body armor is legal, except for a prohibited person or during the commission of a crime.

The suspect he arrested was a prohibited person illegally in possession of a firearm.
He met either criteria for body armor being illegal, prohibited person and in commission of another crime.

‘Nope, I arrested and he was charged, body armor is illegal.’

And this from a decent, intelligent, very 2nd amendment supporting officer who retired as deputy chief.

I advise never taking legal advice from an officer, who knows what the next one thinks and what is actually legal, I have seen to many other cases of this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lloyd Smale]

theres a reason for those vague laws. If your not guilty of anything else a officer might let you slide. If you are suspected of shining deer or illegal hunting and they get a search warrant and search your home there going to nail you for everything they can. Shoot a deer at 10am legally and get caught shinning deer with it still in your truck and see what happens. its the same with these stupid gun laws. Get pulled over with a loaded gun in your truck and the officer might tell you to get it cased. Get caught shooting a deer out the window and your getting a ticket for an uncased gun in the car, a loaded gun in the car, to big of a magazine if it applys and any thing else they can drum up. There attitude is let the judge weed it out. Bottom line is if you think what your doing even might be illegal or is pressing the limit of the law just don't do it. If you get caught with your freezer chuck full of ducks on the 10 day of season and the search warrant came because the dnr suspected you of breaking the law then you deserve what you got. I love my ar15s. I have ar15 pistols that are legal for me to carry loaded and uncased in my jeep during deer season. Now why would I even consider pushing the envelope and doing that. I sure cant say im worried about a perp shooting me on a dirt road in deer season. So I put it in the case instead of trying to beat heads with the dnr when I get pulled over for a routine check. Its guys that press the envelope with crap like this that leads to new more restrictive laws.

[BrassMagnet]

Possession limit includes freshly killed, recently killed and in possession, and all preserved in any fashion in your possession.
In Colorado, as in many states, expect them to search you, your vehicle, your camp including your RV/travel trailer, and your home. They will search for fresh, refrigerated, frozen, canned, freeze dried, dehydrated, etc! They all count toward bag limit!
For big game, they will even DNA test every package and use the results to charge you with over the possession limit. Colorado fines use geometric progression and go up real fast. Consider deer one at $1000, deer two at $2000, deer three at $4000, etc and then add in your vehicles, guns, and house to the penalty plus jail time. Pretty punitive, isn’t it?
Hunting out of state? Expect game check stations on every Interstate Highway with wardens from many states and a single citation for any game offense can lead to a warrant to search your home.
Do you cut and wrap your big game animals as a family? Any chance a package or two of your brother’s deer could end up in your pile? It just might be a problem!
Colorado just raised all the fees again this year.
I did not apply for any licenses this year. The last few years I saw hardly any animals and none that matched my license. This year, I only hunted for a new home in another state and I have been skunked at that so far. At least house hunting is year round with no bag or possession limit. Of course, as a “poor” house hunter I will limit myself to just one!

[BrutalAB]

Since we are in the realm of dna testing possibilities....
The average hunter pays someone to process his deer correct?
We also generally assume such a guy doesnt get his exact deer back.
Couldnt we also assume that he gets a mix of different deer back.

How does the law handle ghat situation, where a single hunter only takes one deer, but has many more deer's dna in his freezer thanks to his butcher?
Also how does possession limits work on game harvested outside of state brought home?

[rl69]

In Texas it's a none isue once the game is processed it no longer consederd game

[firefly1957]

There was a recent poacher of fish in this area of Michigan that made the news he fished day and night on the same day as he returned to his lakeside home he was stopped and had his limit so that was used to get a warrant to search his freezer . The story in the news said multiple lake residents had made complaints putting the man on the radar of our DNR officers .
Daily limits are obvious and if traveling with the game possession limit is easy to figure BUT I have been told many things by our DNR officer from a person can not have more then "possession limit" in there home to once it is processed and canned or frozen it does no longer count two officers at the same table disagreed with each other on this even!
I am sure each state varies on this best bet is to call your state attorney general and ask for it in writing.

There are other confusing and outright stupid rules too! For instance one year on my own property the north 500 feet was not open to doe hunting but the rest was? On the south half if a doe run onto state land to die even though shot legally some officers claimed it must be left for coyotes! Fishing here is even worse you can be ticked for just parking next to water closed to fishing if you have fishing gear!

One Issue with many game laws and how they are enforced is that they were originally purely civil (low fines and NO jail) in nature and that under our constitution has a lower standard then a criminal case. Michigan can now put a person in prison for game violations and fines can exceed $10,000 our game officer should now be stuck with all the same rules as any officer because of the changes .

[BrutalAB]

One Issue with many game laws and how they are enforced is that they were originally purely civil (low fines and NO jail) in nature and that under our constitution has a lower standard then a criminal case. Michigan can now put a person in prison for game violations and fines can exceed $10,000 our game officer should now be stuck with all the same rules as any officer because of the changes .

This explains a lot actually, did not know this.

Dont know the truth of this, but as a kid i was taught that getting caught violating basically any game law put any and all property related to the activity at risk of confiscation, fishing pole, boat, truck to pull the boat.....

[firefly1957]

BrutalAB It depends on what state you are in here in Michigan they can try to go after it all the courts rarely agree .