Firearms Industry Statement: Results of CDC Blood Lead Levels in Hunters Study

[Dutchman]

If this is a duplicate post just delete.

(this was the original link)
http://www.nssf.org/news/PR_idx.cfm?PRloc=share/PR/&PR=110608.cfm&CFID=2848691&CFTOKEN=3eda15c33a91a8f7-789F8CF6-0152-4255-3E51B0DAA55C7062&jsessionid=f030aa942f3ed93006b61c20676532535366

National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF)website.

"NSSF was critical of the ND Department of Health when earlier this year
the Department overreacted to a non-peer reviewed study by a
dermatologist who claimed to have collected packages of venison from
food banks that contained lead fragments. North Dakota health officials
did not conduct their own study, but merely accepted the
lead-contaminated meat samples from the dermatologist. The ND Department
of Health then ordered all food banks to discard their venison. Serious
questions were raised in a subsequent investigative journalism piece
published this summer about the scientific validity of the testing of
venison samples from the ND food pantries, including concerns regarding
the non-random selection of the samples."

"It has since come to light that the dermatologist's efforts were not
the independent actions of a concerned hunter, as he claimed. It was an
orchestrated strategy by the Peregrine Fund -- an organization dedicated
to eliminating the use of lead ammunition for hunting. The dermatologist
serves on the Fund's Board of Directors."

************************************************** *********

My comment: Those of us living in states where this lead issue is coming around need to have some facts and pointed questions when this topic comes up.

Hysterical rhetoric is a standard leftist tactic when lamenting the state of dear mother earth and all her precious creatures. The best way to shut their mouths (other than a knuckle sammich) is lament back to them the truism that some people will loudly lie when facts don't represent their cause.

I'd bet somewhere within the lead mining industry are reports, at the least, or academic studies on ground water levels of lead contamination near or within lead mining districts. We need to do the research before its replaced with *correct* information that shows the world is nearing apocalyptic implosion from the sheer atomic weight of lead molecules orbiting the nucleus of hydrogen atoms clogging the free passage of oxygen thereby choking all the children of the world in a gruesome death caused by rightwing gun nuts, which is further evidence of why we need microstamping of bullets to identify who fired them into mother earth's heart.

In the far north of Californy the greatest contaminate of ground water is mercury that was used 100+ years ago in gold mining. Rates of birth defects in areas where mercury was so utilized are troubling, to say the least. Discussions that change the focus from lead contamination to --- anything else will leave the leftist's mouth agape not knowing what to say. This is one of the very few times that I'd agree to the use of the very potent weapon ---- ridicule, finger pointing and laughing :twisted:.

Dutch

[GrizzLeeBear]

Link doesn't work.

Also, would be nice to have a link to the CDC survey, if anyone knows it, rather than just the NSSF article.

[randyrat]

See if this link works


http://www.nssf.org/BP2/SpecialBP.htm

[Bret4207]

Well that figures! Why do any independent research when you can grab a headline so easily. The man and the ND Dept of Health should be sued. Where's a slimy ambulance chasing attorney when you need one?

[randyrat]

Yes it is funny i've been eating lead shot game of all kinds my whole life. I remember many times eating Grouse/ duck/pheasent and bit down on lead shot, my mother telling me to just spit it out in the garbage and finish my meal. My old house i grew up in had lead paint everywhere. Chances are, all my toys i had when a youngster were painted with lead paint. Never any elevated levels and i get blood work done every two years for work. My job requires extensive testing. Someone is pulling our leg.......They need to get their stories straight. We need to start putting pressure on these people NOW.

[mold maker]

This past Summer I smelted way over a ton of range lead and WWs. I had my blood tested in Sept. and its lead level was a low normal. Like said above I grew up eating game that was full of shot. Everything around me was painted with lead paint. I played with mercury and never had a helmet while I wore out 3 bikes.
I wouldn't advise sucking on old lead that had turned white with oxide, but I bet you'd have to suck it a long time to get sick from it.
Did you ever notice how some people think up a problem in order to get famous telling everyone else how to get rid of it?
And I didn't even mention, AL Gore, did I?

[Old Ironsights]

Like any Facts matter when the EPA creates a new Regulation.

This has nothing to do with science. It is the Anti Gun/ARF One Party State's means to "bankrupt" the Shooting Sports Industry & shooters.

[johnho]

Dutchman, I have spent many years in the lead-zinc mining industry and do not think we want to make any comparison there to our shooting sports. the processing of lead from ore to finished metal has no relationship to this. I have been involved with mine discharges and tailings pond disposal of milling wastes, we don't want to touch this subject. Please understand this is not a flame in any way.

If you want more research Google Bunker Hill Smelter with reference to it being an EPA superfund site. Bunker Hill mined, milled and smelted lead and zinc ores for those metals and silver in Idaho since the early 1900's. There is another site in Leadville, CO where I did work for 7 years that is now a superfund site from the old gold, silver, lead and zinc mines that for over 140 years drained eventually into the Arkansas River.

Nope, don't bring that up. :)

John

[FN in MT]

Someone needs to sue the Dermatologist with the anti lead agenda. Someone like the NSSF.

FN in MT

[Dutchman]

Dutchman, I have spent many years in the lead-zinc mining industry and do not think we want to make any comparison there to our shooting sports. the processing of lead from ore to finished metal has no relationship to this. I have been involved with mine discharges and tailings pond disposal of milling wastes, we don't want to touch this subject. Please understand this is not a flame in any way.

If you want more research Google Bunker Hill Smelter with reference to it being an EPA superfund site. Bunker Hill mined, milled and smelted lead and zinc ores for those metals and silver in Idaho since the early 1900's. There is another site in Leadville, CO where I did work for 7 years that is now a superfund site from the old gold, silver, lead and zinc mines that for over 140 years drained eventually into the Arkansas River.

Nope, don't bring that up. :)

John

I spent several hours today on google to see what's out there on the subject as background. I wasn't suggesting that mining discharge was the same, just that there was something to learn from the mining industry in that the studies relating to lead mobility aren't politically motivated and controlled by anti-gun types, hopefully. However, you can bet the anti-gun types will use that same information if it suits their purpose so its better to be familiar with it beforehand. Many of the medical studies relating to lead exposure involve children. We need to be prepared for those types of arguments as well. When I sweep the net for information I try and get into all the corners to see what's there from all perspectives.

U.S. EPA Region 10: The Pacific Northwest
Bunker Hill Mining and Metallurgical
http://yosemite.epa.gov/R10/CLEANUP.NSF/7d19cd587dff1eee8825685f007d56b7/1a829ac00e6d429e882566290004a644?OpenDocument

DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
Testimony Tom Sinks, Ph.D., Director
Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry
Provided to the Subcommittee on Interior, Environment, and Related Agencies
Committee on Appropriations, United States Senate, Washington, DC
May 5, 2005
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/testimony/testimony-2005-05-25.html

Idaho Department of Environmental Quality
Mine Waste Management in Idaho:
Coeur d'Alene Basin Remediation
http://www.deq.state.id.us/waste/prog_issues/mining/cda_basin.cfm

North Dakota Dept. of Health - lead in venison
http://www.ndhealth.gov/lead/venison/

Minnesota Dept. of Natural Resources
Lead Information for Hunters
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/hunting/lead/index.html

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: LEAD MOBILITY AT SHOOTING RANGES
http://www.rangeinfo.org/resource_library/facility_mngmnt/environment/executive_summary.htm

American Academy of Pediatrics
PEDIATRICS Vol. 97 No. 1 January 1996, pp. 84-90
Lead Poisoning Risk Determination in a Rural Setting
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/97/1/84

Neurological and Behavioral Consequences of Childhood Lead Exposure
May 27, 2008
http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0050115&ct=1

Get the lead hysteria out
By Steven Milloy
March 16, 2001, FoxNews.com
http://www.junkscience.com/foxnews/fn031601.html

Environment -- December 1995
An Element of Doubt
Disinterested research casts doubt on claims that lead poisoning from paint is widespread among American children. Ironically, lead-paint removal can be a cause of poisoning by Ellen Ruppel Shell
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/95dec/lead/lead.htm

Bullet Fragments in Deer Remains: Implications for Lead
Exposure in Avian Scavengers.
http://www.peregrinefund.org/pdfs/ResearchLibrary/Hunt%20et%20al%202006.pdf

Do Lead Bullets Continue To Be A Hazard After They Land?
ScienceDaily (Nov. 5, 2004)
There were 20 million metric tons of lead bullets fired in the
United States in the 20th century. Is that lead having an environmental
impact? Not at or near the U.S. Forest Service firing range near
Blacksburg, according to research by Virginia Tech geological
scientists. Donald Rimstidt, a professor in the Department of
Geosciences, College of Science at Virginia Tech, will report
the conclusions of a five-year study at the 116th national meeting
of the Geological Sciences of America in Denver Nov. 7-10.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041104005801.htm

(cited in the above article)
LEAD BEHAVIOR AT NATIONAL FOREST SHOOTING RANGES
http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2004AM/finalprogram/abstract_77263.htm
We need to find this whole article instead of just this abstract. I couldn't find it online.

Lead Bullets And Shot Corrode, But The Lead Stays Put, Virginia Tech Study Shows
ScienceDaily (Nov. 30, 2000)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/11/001129074745.htm

Virginia Tech Professors Study Effects On Environment Of Lead From Bullets
ScienceDaily (Mar. 28, 2000)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/03/000328085443.htm

DISSOLUTION, TRANSPORT, AND FATE OF LEAD ON SHOOTING RANGES
Master's Thesis
http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-02252004-092216/unrestricted/CalebDScheetzThesis.pdf

Master's Thesis
Contaminants at a Shooting Range: Toxicological and
Nutritional Significance to Birds and Mammals
http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-08192003-104520/

CDC Chatter
A Blog to Discuss Issues at CDC
Is CDC acting before reading the literature?
http://www.cdcchatter.net/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=629&theme=Printer


Dutch

[looseprojectile]

economy is bad. When Doctors have to get their food from the food banks.
This whole thing smells like the government had something to do with it.
Life was good:castmine:

[pps]

Would the EPA like for us to re-combine lead with sulfur to form galena to eventually re-deposit it into mother earth from where it came? This whole trumped up lead hysteria isn't about public safety, but rather a back door way at attacking the 2a.

[dwtim]

Dutchman, I have spent many years in the lead-zinc mining industry and do not think we want to make any comparison there to our shooting sports... Nope, don't bring that up. :)

John,

I think it's a good idea to bring it up. I personally don't believe that "banning" is dealing with the subject. (You mentioned Super-fund sites, some of which aren't being cleaned up because of manufactured hysteria about lesser disasters.) I see that you mentioned a lot of other metals in your post. So one may come to the conclusion that mining lead replacements still creates the same risks, and we therefore still have to deal with the consequences?

[AZ-Stew]

Excellent research, Dutchman. Thank you very much for posting it.

Regards,

Stew

[Geraldo]

I'll bet Barnes likes this study: use those X Bullets and be safe :-D

Seriously, the links to the ND DOH site don't show the data from the study. Without the study itself, there is no way to tell how well controlled it was, how adjustments were made for other lead exposure, or whether data was from a one time blood draw or several over a period of time.

I don't think there is any standing for anyone to sue over bad science, it happens daily. A better plan is to publicly question those who use it, such as the ND DOH.

Meanwhile, add more Lino to your boolits. A high BHN and an exit wound and you should be good to go. :Fire:

[dakotashooter2]

There are always those out there that will jump on the latest cause. There are some that feel we should be able to live our lives with zero risk even though that is impossible. Lead and mold are the big 2 right now. Mention either of those to people and they think they are going to drop dead instantly.

I have not talked to a single hunter here in ND that has had any concern about it and a survey of local sporting goods stores showed no increase in demand for non-lead amunition. Keeping in mind, as a rural and conservative state we are for the most part level headed and the public has taken this issue with a grain of salt.

As a matter of fact the "study" was more a testament to poor meat processing techniques than danger from lead as only ground meat was tested. In most cases ground venison is the scrap and damaged meat from around the impact area.

From what I have seen the danger from contaminated commercially processed meats that have supposedly been inspected is far more a danger than traces of lead in wld game.

[johnho]

The other metals mentioned are not lead replacements. Lead is rarely found as just plain lead which is in the form of lead sulfide (PbS) or galena as previously mentioned. It is usually and most commonly found with zinc in the form of zinc sulfide or sphalerite. within the galena is found the silver and gold if it is there at all. These are called sulfide ore bodies and contain other sulfides which also can pollute.

I do agree that any effort by the crazies will be made to "hype" the whold discussion of lead used in shooting and hunting. The affect of lead, from any source be it shooting, mining or smelting, is the same on the body. I will say however that we were never checked for lead in our blood when mining. But, in the smelters there were considerable cases of heavy metals poisoning from many metals, not just lead.

In the "good old days" these were not controlled and the government did do a good job eventually, if that can be said, of regulating what workers were exposed to and the limits. Even now there is not a concensus of what constitutes over exposure to lead but at least there is now some controls, maybe overkill, but that is what we do anymore isn't it?

Let us remember that many people are really interested in controlling exposure to metals and that they do have good intentions and concerns for all of us. Some however have alterior motives and use others to their own advantage to set a political agenda. Those are the SOB's that need to be shot, with frangible bullets of course, and that is a joke please. :killingpc

John

[TAWILDCATT]

back in the 70s in Mass.there was considerable concern about lead in children and there were blood center set up to test people.I was one who got tested.and I had a elivated level 45 parts per.no one knew any thing about getting it down.
later I had tests and I was 9 parts.one person from my club had lead poisioning.65/70 parts..now I am about under 9 parts.HOW DO YOU CLEAR YOUR BLOOD??????? I have not heard yet cept it is painful.but have taken supliments zinc and iron.
that S_O_ B should have been charged with fraud.its all a scam.and if parents stopped their children from eating paint of the walls there would not be this problem.:coffee:[smilie=1::Fire:

[Bigjohn]

If this is a duplicate post just delete.

(this was the original link)
http://www.nssf.org/news/PR_idx.cfm?PRloc=share/PR/&PR=110608.cfm&CFID=2848691&CFTOKEN=3eda15c33a91a8f7-789F8CF6-0152-4255-3E51B0DAA55C7062&jsessionid=f030aa942f3ed93006b61c20676532535366

National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF)website.

"NSSF was critical of the ND Department of Health when earlier this year
the Department overreacted to a non-peer reviewed study by a
dermatologist who claimed to have collected packages of venison from
food banks that contained lead fragments. North Dakota health officials
did not conduct their own study, but merely accepted the
lead-contaminated meat samples from the dermatologist. The ND Department
of Health then ordered all food banks to discard their venison. Serious
questions were raised in a subsequent investigative journalism piece
published this summer about the scientific validity of the testing of
venison samples from the ND food pantries, including concerns regarding
the non-random selection of the samples."

"It has since come to light that the dermatologist's efforts were not
the independent actions of a concerned hunter, as he claimed. It was an
orchestrated strategy by the Peregrine Fund -- an organization dedicated
to eliminating the use of lead ammunition for hunting. The dermatologist
serves on the Fund's Board of Directors."

************************************************** *********

Dutch

Now, all of you can chew me out if I get this wrong but from what I have read it seems like a case of making the study fit the ideology.
If so, howcome he still has his licence; he nolonger has any credibility.

Very simular to what the Anti's were doing on Opening Day of Duck Season here downunder. They 'planted' frozen dead Protected Species of Ducks in the tents of Hunters, some of which it was shown had died of natural causes.

John

[wills]

What? Do you mean to suggest research can be manipulated to reach a perdetermined conclusion? Gasp! Shock! Horror!

[Baron von Trollwhack]

All these people are cut from the eco-terrorism bolt of cloth. It is a matter of degree.

Lying, cheating, and stealing are just the lesser aspects of their efforts.

Think of the one condor that had any sort of lead content, that caused probably a hundred million dollars in losses to shooters and recreation, then think of the people that want mankind eliminated to preserve gaia.

BvT