Cracked brass

[fatelk]

I loaded up some .223 ammo last year, and have been shooting them a couple times, in a couple different rifles. Now, when I look at the empties I'm noticing that most of them have small neck cracks. It's like the brass is brittle or something, but it's just normal brass from my bucket of range pickups, never had a problem before.

It's cheap FMJ bullets and surplus AA2200 powder, a full power load. As I recall, I think I SS tumbled the brass. I'm wondering what I did wrong here.

They shoot fine. I don't care about the brass since 5.56 brass is plentiful and free off the ground at the range. Besides, I just chop the necks off the cracked ones and make .300BO out of them.

250497

[rancher1913]

you will get that unless you anneal the necks.

[BK7saum]

You didn't do anything wrong. That happens as brass becomes work hardened. Seen in many times in brass fired multiple times.

[Valornor]

In addition to multiple load/fire cycles work gardening the brass, sometimes really old brass will crack like that at the neck. The danger with range pick ups is you don’t know the history.

The guy before you might have left them as he knew they were on the 10th reload and were probably no good. Or he could have loaded them really hot, or he found them in his grandpa’s attic and they’d been stored for 75 years.



Check out my website www.theballisticassistant.com

[fatelk]

I've very familiar with annealing, and have had cracked brass before. The difference here is that this brass is the same type I've loaded for many years, and I've never before had them all cracking like this. I've been trying to think of what I may have done different with this batch. The only difference off the top of my head is the powder, and the fact that I inadvertently used a hotter charge than originally intended. Not dangerous hot, but towards the upper end of 5.56 specs.

I remember at one point I picked out all the obviously more than once fired brass from a bucket of 5.56 brass, because I wouldn't need to bother with swaging the primer pockets for plinking/blasting ammo. Perhaps that combined with a near-max load... I've loaded a lot of range brass, and a lot of well used brass, and never had a 90+% cracked neck result like this. It just seems odd to me.

EDIT: on further pondering, the more-than-1x brass combined with a top load idea really makes sense. I guess I pushed the limits a little and learned something. It's still good blasting ammo for the old Mini-14.

[gnostic]

In addition to multiple load/fire cycles work gardening the brass, sometimes really old brass will crack like that at the neck. The danger with range pick ups is you don’t know the history.

The guy before you might have left them as he knew they were on the 10th reload and were probably no good. Or he could have loaded them really hot, or he found them in his grandpa’s attic and they’d been stored for 75 years.



Check out my website www.theballisticassistant.com

If they don't have a factory primer, I let them lay where they are. Many of my homemade 221 Fireball cases made from 5.56 sometimes crack the first time I fire them, i'm trying annealing. I've seen brass crack like that when Braso or the like was used in the tumbler...

[facetious]

" I've seen brass crack like that when Braso or the like was used in the tumbler..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season_cracking

I heard of this years a go and started washing cases in vinegar or citric acid.

[StuBach]

" I've seen brass crack like that when Braso or the like was used in the tumbler..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season_cracking

I heard of this years a go and started washing cases in vinegar or citric acid.

And this is why it pays to read random topics. About a year ago I discovered a large batch of 7.62x39 with a large number of fractured case necks which was causing cycling problems in my AK. Now I know how/why it likely happened.

Thank you

[Bazoo]

Thanks facetious, that's a good thing to file away in the ol memory banks.

[Hickory]

It looks like, from the picture, that it has been exposed to ammonia.

[trapper9260]

I have had some factory rounds that had cracked after I fire them. Other then that for what was stated for how it happeneds.

[Bookworm]

you will get that unless you anneal the necks.

I agree with this. It may not be cost effective with 223 brass being ubiquitous, but there was a time not too long ago where ANY brass was dear.

I had the cracking problem on some 7.62x54r brass, too hard to find, or too expensive, to just let go. I started annealing, and now have brass that I've reloaded 15 times or more.

[hermans]

" I've seen brass crack like that when Braso or the like was used in the tumbler..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season_cracking

I heard of this years a go and started washing cases in vinegar or citric acid.

I just want to say here that I dry tumble my pistol brass, 45acp and 9mm for years and years using Brasso as a polish, and I never have any problems with cracked cases.
To get to the OP's problems with the neck cracks in the 556/223 brass......that is very interesting since I have experienced the same type of neck cracks in my 223 brass which I use in my AR15.
My AR15 brass were all new brass which never saw any Brasso, since they are being wet tumbled with SS pins, so they never have been exposed to any form of ammonia, but what I have noticed is that it is mainly one make of brass that does this, so maybe I should also try annealing?

[lightman]

I had this problem about 10 years ago with new unfired Winchester brass in 223. I would get neck splits on a high percentage of new cases when fired for the first time. It pushed me to finally buy an annealing machine.

[hermans]

I had this problem about 10 years ago with new unfired Winchester brass in 223. I would get neck splits on a high percentage of new cases when fired for the first time. It pushed me to finally buy any annealing machine.

Very interesting....one would assume that new brass would always be properly annealed, but it seems as if it is not always the case, therefor annealing before you start even with new brass can be advantageous?

[Kraschenbirn]

Only time I've ever encountered cracking like that in factory ammo was in some 1944-vintage 8x57 AP...split necks, flattened primers, lots of muzzle blast, etc. Fired a stripper or two of the stuff and pulled the rest down for the projectiles.

Bill

[Moleman-]

Another thing to watch out for if they were fired in an ar15, is if the locking lugs are sharp they can score the brass badly enough that it'll split in a firing or two. I generally try to remember to dehorn the inside front corner of the two lugs that make up the extractor slot before making the barrel or at least before it goes on an upper. Doesn't take much and does not effect head space. You're just taking off enough so those lug corners that the case is going to be pushed against on the way out aren't sharp enough to cut.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Another thing to watch out for if they were fired in an ar15, is if the locking lugs are sharp they can score the brass badly enough that it'll split in a firing or two. I generally try to remember to dehorn the inside front corner of the two lugs that make up the extractor slot before making the barrel or at least before it goes on an upper. Doesn't take much and does not effect head space. You're just taking off enough so those lug corners that the case is going to be pushed against on the way out aren't sharp enough to cut.

THIS ^^^
I picked up a grocery bag of brass after a LE Qual shoot.
All the 223/556 brass had "scores" on the neck.
After a couple loadings, I got the exact same cracks in the neck as shown in the OP's photo.

[fatelk]

Interesting. I never noticed any scored brass, but didn’t look real close either.

For curiosity I think I’ll do a little experiment. I’ll pull down a handful of them, anneal the necks, and load them back up with the same components. Then I’ll shoot them and see how they look.

[Fireball 57]

Gentlemen: Since 5.56mm cases are the go-bang caliber of choice at most ranges, recycle the split cases and move on. Why risk using them in another rifle, if they are compromised? Have a good day. Fireball 57

[fatelk]

They’re not compromised until after I fire them, then I recycle them. None of them are split until after I pull the trigger.

5.56 brass is so cheap and plentiful that they get scrapped out if they’re not shiny enough.

[sigep1764]

I hate processing brass so I anneal the brass every time I shoot it. I trim maybe every 6 times I load it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Interesting. I never noticed any scored brass, but didn’t look real close either.

For curiosity I think I’ll do a little experiment. I’ll pull down a handful of them, anneal the necks, and load them back up with the same components. Then I’ll shoot them and see how they look.

If the necks were scored, while the scores get somewhat ironed out during FL sizing, there will still likely be some evidence of the scores on your loaded ammo.

[fredj338]

I get 8-10 reloads in most 223 cases before neck splits start to show. As noted, only annealing prevents this.

[M-Tecs]

It looks like, from the picture, that it has been exposed to ammonia.

That was my first thought also.


http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2019/11/tech-tip-dont-store-brass-and-ammo-near-ammonia-solvents/?fbclid=IwAR3ddKOCSy0_INvfhfZRrDNcIeCHawXvIdZBiMTG VbxAXlUw-WBczOllf1k

[Gtek]

And maybe just for fun facts measure neck OD post fire from each weapon, might be surprised.

[fatelk]

I'm fairly certain that none of my ammo or brass has been exposed to ammonia at all, while in my possession. I can only assume it was questionable brass to begin with. I might think the chamber could be a factor, but it's the same in both an AR and a Rem 700 that's been fired very little. Fired case necks on both measure .255".

[Rick Hodges]

Many many years ago I bought a '95 Mauser surplus rifle in a barrel, and a couple of boxes of mil. surplus fmj ammo. 4 or 5 rounds out of each box of ammo had neck splits that looked exactly like that. They didn't go to the end of the case just below and to the shoulder. Seeing as I paid $18.00 for the rifle and ammo (told you it was many years ago) I wasn't too worried and gave it to another with a warning to have it checked out. He ended up using the action for a project. I can only say the ammo was very old corrosive and seemed to shoot fine. I have no clue as to the cause.

[lightman]

A friend gets split necks from one of his rifles. Its a CZ in 6.5 X 55 and it has a very large neck area in the chamber. His cracks look different than those pictured. Only one crack and it runs the whole length of the neck. The cracks pictured above look more like stress cracks form work hardening.

[nannyhammer]

If all the cracks look the same and are of the same dimension I would look for sharp edges on the feed ramp.

[243winxb]

Cheap factory ammo gets 1 or 2 less annealing when manufactured. Becomes brittle.

Factory brass has a donut. Standard fl dies over work the brass. Get a bushing die. Or outside neck turn the brass.

Chemicals can damage brass. Ammonia & Vinegar, others. Annealing will not correct the damage done. 1. First photo Federal -first reload. 2nd photo LC. - Vinegar was used. Old NRA mix. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/223-lc-brass.479/fullhttps://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/223-brass-avoid-vinegar-and-ammonia-products.480/full

Had some PMC ammo neck splits on the first reload, like the OP photo. Only 7 out of 100 did not split.

DONUT. - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/223-donut.2569/full https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/223-donut.2568/full

Brass is thicker at the neck shoulder junction. This makes a donut. At times , the expander may be almost impossible to pull back thru the lubed necks, using standard dies.

[243winxb]

Like OP photo. The case neck area -Cracks/splits can develope or be created when the fired case is being extracted and contacts the locking lugs on the barrel extension in AR rifles.

Some need to be deburred.

[fatelk]

I had an idea this morning. It seems like an unlikely long-shot, but I did pick up a bunch of range brass a time or two, out of a trash bucket at the range. There was also a bunch of used cleaning patches mixed in. I'm not a chemist by any means, but do have a fair understanding of such things. Supposing the patches contained residue of an ammonia based bore cleaning solution, and sat in the bucket with the brass for a day or two. I wonder if the very weak fumes from the small amount of residue, in an open bucket, could weaken the brass. That's all assuming that this was that brass (maybe, maybe not), and that the patches were ammonia-based ( I don't remember smelling any).

It's all academic, really. Like I said, I don't care about the brass. It's just funny because I've reloaded and fired thousand of round over the decades, of range pickup 5.56 brass of all flavors and conditions, and never saw anything quite like this before. At first I was concerned that it could be my rifle, until it happened in another rifle also.

[243winxb]

I have been trying to figure out why for years. It can be 1 thing or a combination of a few.

Ammonia vapor can damage cartridge brass. Cat pans produce ammonia.

In nature, decomposition of grass & plants can produce ammonia. If brass was laying outdoor for a while, damage may be possible.

Google vinegar "dezincification" and ammonia" stress corrosion cracking of brass"


Ethanol (also called ethyl alcohol, grain alcohol, drinking alcohol, or simply alcohol may attack copper alloys . This includes vapor.

Dawn has up to 5% Ethanol.


Over working the brass makes it brittle. Annealing can't hurt, if done correctly. But annealing is almost impossible to do correctly. IMO.

[243winxb]

Savage Axis brass.
Started with 29 brass. 20 left. Black Hills Match brass was given to me after being fired in an AR.

Neck and shoulder cleaned with fine steel wool between loadings. Loaded with RCBS standard dies. Necks outside turned.

Started getting split necks. I annealed using a modified candle method after the 17th loading.

My old/sold M16 would be harder on brass. But lots of brass availible. So no problem as said.

Brass still looks good.

[Bwana John]

I had similar neck cracks in a batch of nickel 7mm Mauser brass after ~2 reloads

It was never exposed to ammonia after I bought it new.

No other brass did it, nothing scratching the brass as it chambered or during reloading.

The rifle did have a " generous" chamber, brass was neck sized only.

Nickle coated brass is known to be brittle.

If it only happens with one batch of brass I would put it down to work hardening during manufacture, pull it from the hoard and move on.

[fatelk]

Well, I did my experiment. I pulled down 10 rounds, annealed the necks, and reloaded them with the same components. I took ten un-annealed ones from the same box, and ten more from a full ammo can that I had loaded with the same components. I even fired them in a different rifle with a Wylde chamber.

They nearly all split, even the annealed ones. The few that didn't split I noticed were commercial brass, PMC, RP, Hornady. I'm thinking that's probably because they came from a different source. The split brass was mostly military, LC and a few others. It sure seems likely that this brass was exposed to something, somewhere along the line. I think it was the first batch of 223/5.56 brass I wet tumbled, but I've never heard of Lemishine and Dawn weakening brass?

It's all pretty weird. I've got hundreds of rounds loaded that are likely all like this. I hate to tear them all down again.

[243winxb]

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?58344-Dezincification-of-Brass-Liquid-cleaners

As you can see from the date at the link, i been trying to find the answer for a while.

I have 243 win brass batches , loaded with a Redding fl bushing die that has 18 & 21 firings. Cleaned with steel wool. No annealing.

If its not bad brass from the factory causing splits. Then its from over working it when sizing.

My best guess.

[fatelk]

I'm pretty sure there's something else going on here. I started pulling down some more from that same batch, and found several that are cracked before firing. I'm going to go ahead and pull down the whole can, and scrap the whole lot of brass.

I'm using the same dies and components, other than the powder. I was a little concerned about the powder because it's some older Data 2200 I bought very cheap at a show. The jugs were sealed, looked and smelled fine. I carefully worked up a load, using a chronograph as well as carefully measuring for case head expansion with new brass. I then loaded up a thousand or so. That was a year ago, and now they are all cracking. I've loaded a lot of ammo like this in the past and never had this kind of problem before.

[fatelk]

I pulled down 100 rounds. Over half were cracked clean through the neck into the shoulders. I could pull the bullets out of many by hand. The cracks were clean and bright, no sign of any corrosion or tarnish on brass or bullets. The powder still looks and smells fine. I chronographed some and the velocity was 100fps higher than the load I originally worked up, but I didn't have a lot of confidence in the chronograph I was using, occasionally got odd readings. I relied more on other signs when working up the load.

[243winxb]

I no longer stock pile ammo.

I had to pull about 250 rounds years ago. Most was LC brass.

The Dillon RL-450 shell plate pushed the shoulder back on fl sizing a different amount at each station.

The worst station was .014" This caused case head separations. Every 4th round was bad.

This and with the necks coming off, i was afraid to shoot the M16A1 carbine, when it became a high priced collectors item. Sold it.

Hope you get it figured out. Wheres all the metallurgist when we need one. :grin:

[243winxb]

This is why i would never buy LC once fired brass. Its sold as scrap.


The approximate shelf life of the ammunition is also tested here. "We place the ammunition in a chemical solution. This process allows for the brass imperfections to be easily identified" said Ojeda. "Any potential defects in the brass will become more apparent due to the reaction of the solution. Theoretically, the test makes it possible to identify flaws in the brass that under normal conditions, could only be noticed after a lengthy period of time." https://www.army.mil/article/11859/ammunition_manufacturing_quality_control_crucial_t o_success

[fatelk]

Yeah, this is frustrating. I checked a batch of a couple hundred rounds loaded with soft point bullets and Remington brass- all bad. Most of them I can pull with my fingers. At this point the only difference I can think of compared to thousands of rounds I've loaded in years past is: 1. the powder, and 2. wet tumbled brass. I'm thinking it's not the powder, since there's absolutely no sign of any degradation in the powder or corrosion on the brass. Has anyone else ever noticed brass troubles after wet tumbling?

[Bookworm]

Oh wow. If this is traced back to wet tumbling (which is sheer speculation on my part) there will be many, many angry people out there.

[fatelk]

The cracks look exactly like a couple different batches of ammo I've seen before, both old reloads I had loaded long ago, that sat for decades. One batch was some 30-06 I loaded in the late '80s. A decade or so ago I dug them out to find that a number of them had cracked. In the early '90s I loaded a hundred rounds of .222 Remington for a friend. He bought the components but never picked them up. They sat for 20 years, and when I looked at them most has cracked right at the neck, exactly like what I'm dealing with now. So, nowadays when I load rounds likely to sit for a while, I anneal the brass.

This ammo has only sat for a year, but the brass is brittle. I was only able to find one reference online of someone complaining about wet tumbling making their brass brittle. If it was a common thing I'd think there would be plenty of discussion about it. I found plenty of people saying that wet tumbling absolutely does not embrittle brass.

At this point I don't know. I do know I'm going to pull down maybe 1500 rounds, scrap the brass, and start over. It's a project for a rainy day (or several) when I have time.