Boolit rejection criteria

[Duckhunter]

I have been away form casting for several years and don't remember a lot about what's acceptable in cast boolits. I tried today and most formed well but I have a few that looked like they had cracks or seams in the lead. Just to try and reacquaint myself with the process I also weighed most of my effort; nearly all were within + or - 1/2 grain or the others. However, there were a few that weighed much less than the desired weight.

What guidelines should I use to reject cast boolits aside from the obvious ill formed boolits? I was using the Accurate 312170J (dropping 171 grain) mold and an A.C.E. 312466 (dropping 159 grain).

[Bazoo]

Any that weighed significantly less would have air bubbles. I don't normally weigh my bullets. I cull anything with inclusions or rounded driving bands. I also cull any with wrinkles, but I haven't always. Pistol bullets won't notice wrinkles or a rounded base like a rifle will. I cull very rounded bases, but very slightly rounded and perfectly sharp both get the nod.

[kevin c]

I would say it depends on the intended use.

For accuracy at distance the most blemish free boolits of consistent weight are wanted, along with that carefully sorted/sized/trimmed brass, specially primed and filled with those hand trickled charges of that very expensive powder, to be loaded into that scoped long gun one by one because the state rifle championship is riding on the next shot. On the other hand, for plinking tin cans with a pistol at short range something far less than perfect will do.

My casting mentor says I like perfect boolits too much for our action pistol sport, which shoots big targets at close range at speed. Still, there's satisfaction in producing a fine boolit.

If you're getting wrinkles you may have oil in the mold or perhaps you're not running hot enough (the mold, not the alloy, though the latter can effect the former). With a clean mold and the right mold/alloy temp and right casting cadence, you should hopefully get boolits that are well filled out, of consistent and smooth finish and of consistent weight (assuming the cavities are all uniform). For me, getting in the groove gets me almost all keepers with every pour, which saves a lot of the effort of culling. I think the occasional small surface flaw can be accepted for ammo where accuracy is not critical. I like my boolit bases clean and sharp on all my keepers, though, so I still inspect for that (after cutting the sprue but before opening the mold).

[bmortell]

think your referring to wrinkles when you say seams or cracks, wrinkles should basically stop once your up to temp and pace unless your seeping oil into the cavity or maybe intermittent flow into cavity. I don't keep anything during the wrinkle phase I just consider them mold warming devices and put them back into the pot. actual cracks would mean you opening when its still very hot and weak lead which is of course not good. from there once at pace usually rounded edges are the only problem and If for practice or plinking I just once over them for major rounding and keep all. if serious target shooting or hunting I more carefully check for rounding on the meplat base and bands and if there was something else it would get seen, then weight sort.

actually id recommend taking some of the ones that are bad but safe to shoot and shoot a group with them to compare. and just actually see whats bad by the results, I need to do that too instead of being worried just see what actually happens because im getting pretty picky

[Winger Ed.]

I put ones back in the pot that don't have crisp bands & bases or gaps/wrinkles/hollow spots.
When I start, the first few pours are almost all 'ugly children', and I can spot them as soon as I open the mold.

I catch them with a big heavy welding glove & ease them back into the pot along with the sprue puddle.
But after I get my temp. right, the lead is clean, and a good rhythm going,
it's hardly any that don't look good for as long as I stay with the session.

[JBinMN]

Any that weighed significantly less would have air bubbles. I don't normally weigh my bullets. I cull anything with inclusions or rounded driving bands. I also cull any with wrinkles, but I haven't always. Pistol bullets won't notice wrinkles or a rounded base like a rifle will. I cull very rounded bases, but very slightly rounded and perfectly sharp both get the nod.


I put ones back in the pot that don't have crisp bands & bases or gaps/wrinkles/hollow spots.
When I start, the first few pours are almost all 'ugly children', and I can spot them as soon as I open the mold.

I catch them with a big heavy welding glove & ease them back into the pot along with the sprue puddle.
But after I get my temp. right, the lead is clean, and a good rhythm going,
it's hardly any that don't look good for as long as I stay with the session.

Even though I have not been casting boolits as long as some others here, I feel I do a pretty damn good job at it, & since it looks as though this is just an "opinion" thing the way it was asked about, & not telling someone what to do, I reckon I will weigh in on this topic.
I do have an opinion on this though, so here goes...
Haha... :)

Those two descriptions above in the quotes are the ones most similar to my own method that has been working for me since I started casting boolits. (Similar to casting fishing jigs/sinkers, which I have been doing for about 30 years or more, where one needs good fill out, but can allow some slight flaws as long as they will work for the purpose desired. Fishing. ;) Although obviously fishing does not have too much accuracy involved in it as far as I am concerned. Ha ha ):)

For me, if the drive bands are good & the edges of the base are sharp & not rounded, then I will use them.

One caveat though > At least for handguns, since I mostly just use them for plinking, and messing around type target shooting. If they have some/a few wrinkles on the noses, I still shoot them, but I try to keep them without flaws.
For testing accuracy on handguns, I only use good ones without any flaws I can see on them.

For rifle, I am very picky & no flaws that I can see, are allowed. Rejects go back into the pot. Reason being is that I am using more powder than in the smaller handgun rounds & I do not want to waste my time & the powder assembling the rounds if they are compromised, and because I am shooting at longer distances where those flaws would likely contribute to more issues with accuracy than I would desire.
When testing "ladders", I do weigh the boolits as well.

So, no flaws I can see for testing, both handguns & long guns & even more scrutiny such as weighing when testing..

That is "my opinion". Hope it helps you decide what is best for you, so G'Luck! on whatever you decide is best for your needs.
:)

[upnorthwis]

When my pot and mold are just starting to get up to temp, and the bullets aren't yet perfect, I'll start keeping them for foulers and chrono use. It pains me too much to shoot good bullets just to warm up the barrel or shooting in to a berm just to check velocity. I also save the "scrap" for fire forming.

[dverna]

For rifle bullets. If the max weight of the bullet is 171 gr, I would reject any below 170.5 gr.

Only weigh bullets that look perfect.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

my Rifle boolits need to look perfect for my reloading purposes.

Pistol boolits:
I generally don't keep any wrinkly boolits, but if I do, I will also inspect them as I am lubesizing (afterward), if any wrinkles remain "on the bands" after they went through the lubsizer, they will get rejected.
Also, the boolit base HAS to be fully filled out, if not, I reject it.

[mdi]

A lot depends on how I feel too. If everything is going smoothly and I'm getting 90%-95% keepers, I may relax my standards a bit. But I want sharp corners, good flat bases with sharp corners, and mostly wrinkle free. For me casting is one part of my overall hobby, I do it because I like to. I shot mostly handguns and even though my advancing age is taking a toll on my marksmanship, I still like to do the best I can with my booits and handloads. Besides, I can claim 99.5% keepers as my fails go right back in the pot (many times if I see a wrinkle or rounded edge when a bullet it goes right back into the pot or sprue box, so when I'm looking at my pile when I'm done, most are "perfect" [smilie=1:)...

[Duckhunter]

Thanks for the info. This advise and opinions are greatly appreciated. One question that was answered and that had me wondering how this could happen is the very few that showed up that was considerably underweight. The air bubble comment explained how this could happen. My bottom pour pot has some problems in that it would "drip" at times rather than pour and I see how air bubbles could form but the boolit looked decent on the outside. Like most of you, this is a hobby and I like to do it. I want to make the best boolit I can make.

[Winger Ed.]

Keep a stiff wire or straightened out paper clip handy.
Wiggle it around up in the pour spout hole to clear the dribble effect.
Raise the temp. up just a tiny bit will help that if it still does it after the spout is cleaned.
Also wiggle and firmly seat the needle valve thingy that stops the flow and usually floats off any dirt on/under it.

Sometimes you'll get a shrinkage hole in the boolit base where the sprue is cut off.
Small ones I don't worry about. Tinker with your temp. and casting rate & it'll go away.

[robg]

If the bases are good I'm good to go within reason .

[Bazoo]

Whether bottom pour or ladle, if there is any dribble hanging from the spout I wipe it against the sprue plate immediately before pouring.

[JSH]

I reject all that are not a mirror image of the mold, period.

Would one be happy if he opened a box of bullets and they were full of wrinkles and inclusions, or jacketed that were wrinkled? I believe that is what are referred to as seconds.
Don’t take this wrong I have shot thousands of Sierra and Hornady seconds over the years. However I came to accept an occasional flyer, sometimes more.

I find my time more valuable than I use too. If it have a huge pile of culls, so be it. Why load and go shoot only to have issues, along with wasted time,powder and primer.

CB’s are just to easy to recycle. Why settle for second best?

[Land Owner]

What your eyes can see will tell you a lot. If it LOOKS like junk (wrinkled, frosted, rounded edges, not like the mold, etc.), your brain is going to treat it like junk and you will be laxidasical while shooting them. So, why go through all the trouble to lube, size, and load those? Just melt and repour. Simple.

Weighing is a way to distinguish what the eye can't see. Realize too, that your alloy may not cast to the mold's designated weight. My alloy drops lower than anticipated from a 380 ACP mold (95 gr. boolits vs. 100 gr. designated mold) and a 223 Bator mold (49.5 to 52.5 gr. boolits [3-grain spread!] vs. 55 gr. designated mold). Since I am casting THOUSANDS of them anyway, I simply recast the lower and upper 1/3 (+/-) of those boolits.

Ordinarily, low boolit weights are indicative of both air pockets and incomplete fill out of the mold lines. The eye may not see either. Eccentricities in boolit shape and content do not escape either the scale or rotational dynamics between the barrel and bullseye at the target. Eliminate the junk from your keepers and simply recast them.

[kmw1954]

Being brand new to casting my criteria is also still developing. While I am casting and the pot is still hot anything that is badly wrinkled or heavily frosted is going right back into the pot. If there is a wrinkle or blemish in the area of the bearing surface it goes back in the pot. If the base isn't flat back it goes. Once finished and cooled I am weigh checking for my own pacification. These Lee 356-102 are dropping at 104.5gr or there about so I have then sorted into 5 groups; 104.3 to 104.7 which is the biggest group. 104.7+ to 105 which is the second largest group. 104.3- to 104 which is the 3rd largest. Then I have heavier and lighter than those 3 groups and so far those have been going back into the pot. I am finding that this weight criteria falls well within what I have found with both Berry's and Xtreme plated bullets. So I must be doing something almost right!

[JSH]

kmw, when do you cull?
I mean are you doing it as you cast?
If you are, this will cause nothing but grief. It lets your mold cool down. Get into a good rythem and stay with it. If your going to do it right away, wait till you have to refill the pot.
FYI I have gotten to the point I only go to about a half a pot before I refill it and let it come back up to temp.
Or are you casting a pile then culling?

I got a new 41 mold a while back. I cast up a bunch, several K. Sat down a week or so later to cull. More than half were culls. One half of the mold was dropping perfect, the other half dropped with rounded edges :-(.

[lightman]

My friends say that I'm too picky. I cull any bullets that have wrinkles, voids, inclusions or that have rounded bases or driving bands. My bullets often rival the weight variances seen with good jacketed bullets.

I have done limited experiments with selected culls and honestly see very little difference with accuracy when shooting handguns free hand or off of a rest. I may be too picky!

My thinking is that its pretty easy to get good bullets when you have good alloy and when your mold and alloy temperatures are where they need to be. And its pretty easy to just drop them back into the pot to recycle the rejects.

When to cull? I don't inspect my bullets as a separate step. I just cull the obvious rejects when I handle them. IE, as they are cast, as I size them and as I load them. This seems to catch most of them.

[kmw1954]

JSH, Guess it is that I always have an eye open. As I am casting I watch what is dropping out of my little 2 cavity mold so it is pretty easy to see what is going on. As I am ladle dipping I open the sprue over the pot and it drops back into the pot. When I drop the bullets I have time to give them a quick visual look otherwise this mold starts to get too hot and starts dropping very frosted bullets. So anything that is very obvious and sticks out with a glance is picked out and put back into the pot. Otherwise it is done while weigh checking. So far it's working for me.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

JSH, Guess it is that I always have an eye open. As I am casting I watch what is dropping out of my little 2 cavity mold so it is pretty easy to see what is going on. As I am ladle dipping I open the sprue over the pot and it drops back into the pot. When I drop the bullets I have time to give them a quick visual look otherwise this mold starts to get too hot and starts dropping very frosted bullets. So anything that is very obvious and sticks out with a glance is picked out and put back into the pot. Otherwise it is done while weigh checking. So far it's working for me.

Generally, I do the same as kmw, BUT a few of my molds are troublesome, especially when casting small boolits, like the 22 cal 37gr, from a NOE three cavity mold, OR a NOE 22-055 five cavity mold...then there just isn't enough time to glance at them and push a cull to the side, LOL.

[Bazoo]

I normally give the bullets a quick glance for very obvious rejects when they drop. Then I inspect each later before I store them by rolling them on a cloth. If I'm casting a large mould that needs a little time to cool between casts, I will inspect as I cast, rolling each bullet with a stick. Sometimes I cast in tandem instead. Just depends on the notion I'm in. I like to mix it up a little.

I store some bullets lubed and ready to load. Some I store in the nude. Lubed ones are stores in clear Tupperware. Nude in coffee or formula cans with a label. Anything stored has been inspected.

[bmortell]

just makes a big difference what your shooting, if its rapid fire snub nose at 7 yds theres not much point, if its really bad enough to matter youd see it when you grab it to seat. if your tyring to shoot your 2kfps 30-06 load at 100yds it should be more to the standard of purchased rounds like someone else said.

[Petander]

Anything stored has been inspected.

Same here. I used to have boxes marked "Class B" ... but I found out that I never loaded them. I may still have some of those boxes from ten years back. Back to the pot they go.

So nowadays I only keep,load and shoot good bullets. What is good? Some molds make more uniform bullets than others. I cast a 20 lbs pot today and will cull these Lees tomorrow before coating. Not +/- 05 grain... but reject rate is maybe 10% if I remember correctly.

https://i.postimg.cc/3wngXNGw/IMG-20191027-181718.jpg

[Froogal]

I don't get too excited over slight wrinkles or inclusions, but I am very particular about the driving band. If that doesn't look right, the bullet goes back into the pot.

[kevin c]

kmw, when do you cull?
I mean are you doing it as you cast?
If you are, this will cause nothing but grief. It lets your mold cool down. Get into a good rythem and stay with it. If your going to do it right away, wait till you have to refill the pot.
FYI I have gotten to the point I only go to about a half a pot before I refill it and let it come back up to temp.
Or are you casting a pile then culling?

I got a new 41 mold a while back. I cast up a bunch, several K. Sat down a week or so later to cull. More than half were culls. One half of the mold was dropping perfect, the other half dropped with rounded edges :-(.Maybe it depends on the mold?

My cadence is two pours every sixty seconds with an eight cavity aluminum mold dropping 148 grain 9mm boolits. The mold gets hot fast. I need the time between pours to keep it from overheating, so the pause that refreshes gives me ample time to inspect and cull. And once I settle in I get just about all keepers so the inspection/culling is easy with a yield around a thousand casts in an hour's time, provided I start with full feeder and casting pots and have ingots handy to feed them.

[Frosty Boolit]

What your eyes can see will tell you a lot. If it LOOKS like junk (wrinkled, frosted, rounded edges, not like the mold, etc.), your brain is going to treat it like junk and you will be laxidasical while shooting them. So, why go through all the trouble to lube, size, and load those? Just melt and repour. Simple.

Weighing is a way to distinguish what the eye can't see. Realize too, that your alloy may not cast to the mold's designated weight. My alloy drops lower than anticipated from a 380 ACP mold (95 gr. boolits vs. 100 gr. designated mold) and a 223 Bator mold (49.5 to 52.5 gr. boolits [3-grain spread!] vs. 55 gr. designated mold). Since I am casting THOUSANDS of them anyway, I simply recast the lower and upper 1/3 (+/-) of those boolits.

Ordinarily, low boolit weights are indicative of both air pockets and incomplete fill out of the mold lines. The eye may not see either. Eccentricities in boolit shape and content do not escape either the scale or rotational dynamics between the barrel and bullseye at the target. Eliminate the junk from your keepers and simply recast them.

I'm here to say that frosty boolits shoot.... Just fine!

[Peregrine]

Getting nice square bases has been my issue. I clued into the fact that my sprue plates needed to be much loose and that helped a bit but it hasn't fully elminated some of the roundness i'm getting. Playing with the temperature and tin content hasn't done the trick either, and while i've improved my pour technique i'm still getting rounded bases. Urgh.

[USSR]

Agree with a lot that has been said here. I will add that selection for rejection can also depend upon cast diameter .vs sizing die being used. When dealing with a mould that casts them large, there are instances where the sizing die will clean things up a bit. Just MHO.

Don

[Bazoo]

Getting nice square bases has been my issue. I clued into the fact that my sprue plates needed to be much loose and that helped a bit but it hasn't fully elminated some of the roundness i'm getting. Playing with the temperature and tin content hasn't done the trick either, and while i've improved my pour technique i'm still getting rounded bases. Urgh.

Instead of having a sprue puddle when the cavity is full, try continuing to pour lead over the sprue hole a few seconds. On a two cavity mould I pour half the ladle into and then over the first hole and then empty the ladle over the second. I angle the mould slightly so the excess sprue doesn't run into the other cavity. Basically a type of pressure casting.

[Peregrine]

Instead of having a sprue puddle when the cavity is full, try continuing to pour lead over the sprue hole a few seconds. On a two cavity mould I pour half the ladle into and then over the first hole and then empty the ladle over the second. I angle the mould slightly so the excess sprue doesn't run into the other cavity. Basically a type of pressure casting.

Great advice.

I indeed do try and cast that way, i'm using four cavity molds for the large part, so sometimes i'm so generous with the pouring I have to go back for a second scoop of alloy.

Such technique has indeed reduced my reject rate for rounded bases but it's still around 20%.

[charlie b]

Reject rate for me depends on what I am casting.

Plinking loads are pretty loose standards. Good square base fill and good drive bands. Just about anything else is ok. I do not weigh them at all. These are usually culled when casting. If the base fills out well in the mold it is almost always good enough to be a plinker.

For my long range loads I am more picky. No wrinkles. Perfect base and drive bands. Slightly frosty. Sized, gas checked and weight matched to +/- 0.3gn (FWIW, that is the normal spread that I see with Sierra Match King bullets). I also check gas check seating and runout after sizing. Rejects at this point go into the plinker can.

My reject rate can be as high as 50% depending on how good a day I am having. It can also be as low as 10%. Most of my rejects come from a bad pour. A little off center, mold tilted too much, lead from one pour runs into next cavity, etc, etc. I use a bottom pour pot and it is less forgiving than a ladle.

[popper]

I don't weigh any, the dia. difference variable more then covers up any 'void' problems. Can there be voids? Yes. Can you find them by weighing them, maybe if dia. is exactly the same. Show me targets for pistol or rifle where weight diff. only causes a problem.
that is the normal spread that I see with Sierra Match King bullets) xactly!!

[kevin c]

Popper, I want to understand: are you talking about multi cavity molds dropping boolits of different diameters (and therefore different weights) because of dimensional variances versus single cavity molds where the one cavity gives uniform diameter (and weight, save for potential voids and other flaws causing differences) to all the casts that go through it?

[fredj338]

I only weigh my hunting bullets. In pistols, I just look for visual flaws, particularly in the base. Long range for me with cast bullets is about 150y. Small weight variations wont matter but I weigh to catch internal voids.

[Walks]

When shooting for accuracy, I will use a 1cav mold. Usually 4 at a time. I cast in a rythem so as to maintain as much consistency as possible.
Perfect bases are my 1st criteria. If the base isn't perfect, it goes into the reject pile. From there, I take the bullets and check for inclusions and rounded driving bands. From there the bullet has to Look perfect. The rejects go into a coffee can with any sprues that escaped during clean up. Great start alloy for melting a different alloy in an empty pot.

For Plinking/Cowboy loads; sharp bases are a must. Slightly rounded driving bands are OK, Small inclusions are OK too.

Some of the casters in my old Cowboy club shot stuff I'd drop into the Pot without a 2nd glance.

Just depends on what your criteria are.

[fredj338]

Getting nice square bases has been my issue. I clued into the fact that my sprue plates needed to be much loose and that helped a bit but it hasn't fully elminated some of the roundness i'm getting. Playing with the temperature and tin content hasn't done the trick either, and while i've improved my pour technique i'm still getting rounded bases. Urgh.

Try breaking the top edge of the mold halves with a fine file. It will allow a bit more air to flow under a tighter spru plate.

[44Blam]

For me, it must look perfect to keep. I notice that once everything is warm the boolits start casting nicely if I do it right. Often times I can tell when I screwed up pouring.