Alloy Temperature for Casting, and Keeping Molds Hot

[OTShooter]

Sorry for the length of this post, but here goes...

Today I cast my first bullets. I cast a LOT. And almost all of them were bad. I made over 350 bullets, and I got 22 that were not totally awful.

Most were wrinkled and layered-looking, primarily at the nose, but some looked like I'd poured alloy in two different tries. I've seen the term "sharpei" bullets, and many of mine looked that wrinkled, but to varying degrees, especially the ones that looked like I'd poured twice.

I have a Lee 4-20 bottom pour casting pot connected to a PID controller, and I was running at 750F.

It was really obvious when my molds weren't hot - the alloy would start cooling on contact and only a little went into the mold. But after a while, I got good filling and nice, sharp bases. The bases were the only things that were nice though. :( I got a few instances of "sprue smearing" so I waited a little longer before cutting sprues and dumping the bullets. The only thing I didn't have happen was bullets deforming for being dropped too soon.

So I dug into Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition and a couple other sources, and it looks like what I had going on was that the alloy and/or the molds were too cool.

Is there a rule of thumb for how hot the alloy (wheel weight in this case) should be for a given size and weight of bullet? I was using two Lee molds; their 452-200-RF flat point and their 452-228-1R RN mold; the flat point is a 6-cavity mold, and the RN is a two cavity mold. Is the amount of alloy in the pot

Second, I have read a lot about "cadence," but nowhere has anyone quantified cadence. How quickly should I pour into a 2-cavity or 6-cavity mold, how long should I give the sprue to harden, and how quickly should I work to cut the sprue and dump the bullets? Obviously it should be pretty quick, and the soft landing zone for those new bullets should be very close to where I'm pouring, but just how quickly is "pretty quick"? I'm sure it's no hard-and-fast time that fits every mold, but there's got to be some sort of starting point. Some numbers would be very helpful.

Lastly, I've read that it's useful to rest molds on the edge of the casting pot to keep them hot, and some people use a hot plate for this purpose. The idea seems to be related to using two molds in the same casting session, and/or keeping the mold(s) hot while adding alloy and bringing the pot back up to temperature - please correct me if I am not properly understanding. Well I had a very tough time getting either the 6- or 2- cavity mold to balance on the top of the pot at all because the handles seemed to be heavier than the molds and the mold blocks kept tipping off the pot. That makes me wonder how they'll sit on a hot plate... Do folks use a support for the handles?

Any guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.

[Valornor]

Cadence is hard to quantify. It’s kind of like a blacksmith banging on his anvil. Every blacksmith is going to be a little bit different, and if they all get the same results is any of their cadences really wrong?

When I cast I like to cast with two molds. Typically I’ll try and cast two different bullets molds. Really doesn’t make if they are the same caliber or not. I find that keeps me constantly moving.

I fill one mold set it aside on a brick, pick up the second mold, cut the sprues, drop the bullets and fill the mold. Set it aside on a brick. Pick up the first mold. My cycle time is probably 30-45 seconds...it’s not something I have timed...

I find this cadence prevents me from over heating the mold. But giving things time to cool. I’m never in a rush, I do every action deliberately, and try and be consistent with my motions.

The real trick can be when I need to refill the pot. If let the level drop too far then I am waiting for awhile before the pot gets back up to temperature, and I have to try and keep my molds hot. Either way I end up throwing away the first few bullets cast. I’ll either drop them aside or sort them out when I QC them later on.

The wrinkled bullets don’t bother me if I’m just casting range fodder.

700-750 is what I like to run my pot at but I’m not fancy enough to have a PID. Yeah it can be a bit tricky to get the molds to set on a pot to heat them. I’ll dip the front of the mold in the lead to heat it up until the lead won’t stick to it. Then I start casting with it. Pouring the lead into the mold and using it is the best way that I have found to get it up to temp and start casting good bullets.


If I have to add more lead and it will be a minute before I can use the mold, I’ll leave the bullets in the mold to try and keep the heat in the mold. How fast a mold warms up and cools is dependent on the material it is made of. Aluminum molds will heat up and cool much faster then a Brass or Iron Mold.



Check out my website www.theballisticassistant.com

[OTShooter]

I’ll dip the front of the mold in the lead to heat it up until the lead won’t stick to it.
That's something I've never heard of. I'll have to try it next time I can get out and cast.

I understand what you're saying about cadence being hard to quantify, but you've provided more detail than I've ever found in other posts. Does the brick you rest the molds on help them cool, or keep them hot? And I assume you go directly from the first mold to the second, without a pause; am I right?

[Valornor]

Usually I am just trying not to burn anything.

A brick doesn’t draw away heat as quickly as metal. Ideally a refractory brick will help insulate the bottom of the mold and keep a little heat in the mold, but I just use any brick that is clean, and readily available.

I don’t pause, but I’m not in a rush either.

A good indicator that the mold had cooled is the condition of the sprue. It should be solid, and it is dimpled. Lead shrinks as it cools and this manifests itself as a dimple over each of the holes.

If I am moving too fast and the molds start to get too hot, I have had instances where the sprue hasn’t hardened all the way. When this happens it won’t cut cleanly, instead smearing on the top of the mold. This is the mold saying “Hey you, slow down!”

I’ll set the mold on a nearby cool lead ingot. Let the ingot absorb some of the heat. Slowly work the other mold, and then reintroduce the cooled mold into the cycle.

No ones process is the same, you’ll sit down and develop your own unique rhythm. It’ll take a few casting sessions but it’ll come to you.




Check out my website www.theballisticassistant.com

[reddog81]

Until my mold gets warmed up and making perfect bullets i just go as fast as possible. The cadence is dependent upon how fast the bullets fall out of the mold. The temperature of the sprue plate has an effect on fill out of the base and I try to get it warmed up with a couple large pours covering as much of the sprue plate as possible right away.

The first casting session generally seems to be as much of a learning experience as it is about making bullets. Run the pot a little hotter and go a little faster next time and things will start to click.

I’ve cast 10,000+ bullets and have tried to run 2 molds at a time and for me it’s more of a pain switching back and forth than any benefit I can see. You’ve got to walk before you can run. If your mold gets too hot take a 30 second break and inspect some of your bullets.

[44Blam]

It sounds like you might have some machine oil still on the mold. Might take a brush and some dish soap and really clean it under warm water.

I do this for each new mold. Then I put my mold on a hot plate right at or just under medium. I like to cast at around 675 or so.

The cadence is going to change based on the mold temp/alloy temp and boolit size. I find that I have to cast larger boolits slower as they tend to heat up the mold a bit more. Then with small boolits you have to cast faster just to keep the mold warm enough.

What I do is heat my mold and alloy at the same time. Then my first 2-3 casts I plan on just throwing them back in the pot and I start out quickly to get everything warm. Then I slow down a little and try to keep the mold at the same temp. Also, I pour each cavity and hold the mold tightly closed. Then when the lead on the sprue plate frosts over, I give it another second or so before opening the sprue plate and mold and drop out the boolits on a towel. Then I inspect them and throw the bad ones back. I find that once a mold is working, you will get very few bad boolits and they tend to be where I've messed up the pour...

A mold from cool to hot will do the following:
Too cool and you'll get wrinkly boolits and poor fill out. A mold that is warmer will start to fill out properly but will have very shiny boolits. When your mold is warm the boolits will start to get frosty in places. I tend to try to stay just under frosty because frosty boolits tend to be just ever so slightly bigger and in some shapes I find that I can get chambering issues. When your mold is too hot - it will start to stick together and not want to open. Also, the warmer the mold is, the longer it will take for the lead on the sprue to frost over.

Hope this is helpful.

[Valornor]

I should clarify. If I am running two molds, it is typically two, two cavity molds, or two six cavity molds. I don’t usually run one two cavity mold and one six cavity mold at once.

Intermixing molds with different numbers of cavities Getz kind of messy. You always end up over heating a mold, and you never get into a steady rhythm. At least I don’t.


Check out my website www.theballisticassistant.com

[Outpost75]

ANother method which works well is to use an electric hot plate, placing a piece of ceramic tile over the coil to spread the heat uniformly. Start with the "medium" setting on the hot plate and pre-heat your mold on it. Experiment with the setting until you get good bullets almost immediately. I cast outdoors in a screened porch to be assured of good ventilation, so the hotplate setting needs to be adjusted seasonally, as you need more in winter when wearing the snowmobile suit than in summer in a T-shirt. I use a 450-degree F. Tempilstik crayon to mark the mold blocks and calibrate the hotplate setting.

[Slugster]

OTShooter:
A short list of things to consider:

Add a little tin to your alloy for better fill out.

Smoke the molds with a butane lighter or wooden kitchen match.

Have a stand to hold the handles of your molds when placing the mold on the edge of the lead pot. I use a coffee can filled with
sand setting on a piece of 2x8 board to get the proper height. You may have to adjust for your setup.

Check the calibration on your PID controller.

Always clean molds before using. I use an old toothbrush, hot water, and Dawn dish soap.

If none of the above suggestions works for you, thoroughly reclean the mold and swab the cavities with Kano Kroil on a Q-tip.
Read about the Kroil tip on this forum and it definantly works.

Don't let small setbacks discourage you, keep casting and you will begin making quality boolits.

Hope this helps, Richard.

[kevin c]

I use 8 cavity aluminum molds with a bottom pour (old RCBS ProMelt) at around 720 degrees. Usually it's one mold only, with a pour every 20 to 25 seconds (out door casting in the evening in a wind sheltered area, ambient temps 60's to 70's). At that pace, I can inspect and cull the last pour as the next cools in the mold. If I use two molds, it's the same cadence for each mold as for one, only I'm producing twice the boolits in the same time by interpolating the actions needed for one mold with the same actions for the other. I like my bullets with a very light matte frost; they're the most consistent that way with my alloy and casting technique. Heavy frost means I'm going too fast, which mainly happens with one mold (too many things to juggle with two molds for me to outrun them). No time to inspect and cull while casting with two molds, though.

I pre warm and keep the molds hot while reloading the pot using a 1100 watt coil hot plate. I was a bit leery at first but I ended up using close to the max setting with the blocks set directly on the red hot element. Done just for a few minutes (hot plate turned on and mold in place just during the final fluxing of the fully melted alloy, and while refilling the casting pot from the feeder pot directly over it) I haven't had any mold damage. Maybe not suprising since I put a temp probe on the coil at maximum and couldn't get a reading over 800 degrees). Preheated, I usually only have to discard a couple pours, most commonly for heavy frosting, before I get keepers.

Yup, Miha's eight bangers with the three handles won't balance just on the blocks. I use a piece of 2x4 on edge to prop the end of the handles; just right for my hot plate.

ETA: to second a suggestion made above - if the molds are new, they may not have been cleaned enough prior to use. Gotta get any and all lubricating/cutting/rust preventive oils completely removed from the cavities.

[kmw1954]

I too have just started and am proceeding a bit more difficult than you. I am using a hot plate and a SS sauce pan as my alloy melting/working pot that doesn't have a lot of temperature control to it other than giving it time to reach full temp and watching the fill level. Then the mold I am using is a Lee Aluminum 2 cavity casting .356" X 102gr RN. From what I have learned so far is that these small bullets need to be run faster in order to heat the mold properly.

My second session I was getting wrinkled bullets and finally gave up for the day. My last session I increases the tempo so that I wasn't waiting as long to cut the sprue and empty the mold. Before long I actually started to get frosted bullets so I slowed the timing between cutting the sprue and dropping the bullets but not slowing too much between dropping and pouring and the frosting faded.

I too used the method of placing the mold into the melted alloy and with my pot if it was too cold the lead would start to freeze around the mold so I would leave it until it would come out clean, then it would be about the right temp. So once I got to the point that I was seeing frosted bullets I know the temp was good and I needed a longer interval between pours so as to not over heat the mold.

Now with this mold an alloy I was waiting for the sprue puddle to freeze over to the point that I could knock the sprue plate open with my gloved hand. The session before I was waiting what I believe was too long and had to really hit the sprue with the mallet to get it to open. Last thought I am also pouring with a Lyman ladle.

[popper]

Cold mould, cold Sprue plate. Try smoking with bic, may be venting problem. Happened to me on last mould.

[OTShooter]

I did clean my molds, but I didn't scrub them with a toothbrush; I'll take care of that before the next session.

I'll also "smoke" them. It's a cheap strategy, and it can't hurt.

As to adding tin to my wheel weight alloy, are we talking about adding an ounce per pound, or what?

I'm shopping for a hot plate right now. Depending on which one I get, I'll buy a ceramic tile of the appropriate size so I won't have to worry about exactly where I place the mold(s). I have a couple of ideas for rests to support mold handles - Lee 6-cavity mold handles will need a different support than their 2-cavity handles.

Almost all of the bullets I cast today are pretty darn shiny, which is enough to tell me that the molds were just too cool. I obviously need to speed up my movements, and that means rethinking how I have everything organized. My back yard work space is kind of limited, but that just helps push me toward getting everything closer together, which should speed up each mold cycle.

Thanks for the inputs so far! I'm learning a lot about technique that no YouTube video or (even very well written) book can teach.

[DiverJay]

My experience, (which in no way compares the expertise of others posting on this thread), is the aluminum molds like the Lees are more difficult to get up to and maintain a good working temperature. Often times, I will sit there and cast a big pile of rejects before I start getting acceptable results with the aluminum molds. About then, I have to watch it because that's about the point the mold is getting too hot. Personally, I like the steel molds like RCBS or Lyman better. With those, I'm getting great results within the second or third pour and the temperature stays much more consistent throughout the process. They cost more but in my opinion, they are worth it.

[Dusty Bannister]

I believe you have already found a few suggestions that might improve your product. First, make sure that the temperature probe for the PID is located at least 1/2 inch from the side and from the bottom of the casting pot. Otherwise you are reading the pot temperature and not the alloy temp. Next, open the valve to allow free flowing stream to enter the center of the sprue hole. Slow flow gives off too much heat. If you are casting in a breeze or strong cross ventilation, be sure that this does not draw heat from the lead stream before it enters the sprue hole. Have about 1/4 or 3/8 inch of drop from the nozzle to the sprue plate. Cold weather casting will exacerbate this type of heat loss. Use only one mold. The first problem with the 6 cavity mold is allowing the sprue to cool too long, it will get hard, and you will break the sprue cutting handle. Watch the sprue puddle as it cools. It should be fluid right after pouring, then haze over and then become solid. Usually 3 to 5 seconds. Cut the sprue a few seconds after it becomes solid and see if that leaves a wet looking bullet base. If so, let it cool just a bit longer. You should be casting quite rapidly to keep the mold temp up. If you have sticking bullets that slow you down, you will need to fix that before you will enjoy success. Do a site search with the search feature in the upper right corner of the page for your topic words. Be sure to lubricate the sprue plate hold down screw and the alignment pins. Just a light touch, not so much that it migrates into the cavities. I find no need to smoke a mold and once you get things figured out, you will probably abandon that as well.

I would suggest you work with the two cav mold as that will go a lot faster and with the 6 hole you might tend to let it get too hard by the time you fill the cavities and put yourself out of production while waiting for a broken part.

If the mold is too hot, the castings will be showing a "galvanized" appearance. It is just excessive frosting of the surface. Minor frosting is harmless and many prefer that to a shiny and undersized casting. If you have not run that mold for 20-30 minutes, you are not getting any kind of a consistent tempo going. You can speed up or slow down depending upon how the castings look as they drop from the mold. If it is a new mold it might just take some heat cycling to form a patina and start working really well. Stay with it. You will get it figured out.

[kungfustyle]

Just cast with one mold. Get it up to temp (your alloy temp is great) aka no wrinkles and start casting. Pour out the lead, watch it frost over, count 1, 2, 3, cut the sprue. (that's cadence). Once you get a few pots emptied then try with two molds. Sometimes less is more. Once you are up to speed and its the middle of July you can run two molds. However, aluminum molds cool down very quickly, so for now try just one mold and enjoy what you are doing.

[garandsrus]

A couple suggestions:

I normally cast WW about 675. The 75 degree difference (from your 750) makes a lot of difference with mold temp.

Always preheat your mold! This is one of the biggest lessons I have learned. I use a cheap hot plate. The first few casts may not be perfect, but they will be within just a few mold cycles. If the spruce plate isn’t hot enough to cut the bullets easily, use a propane torch to heat the spruce more before the next cast.

Return the sprue to the pot as they are cut. They are still plenty hot and don’t affect the alloy temp when added back right after they are cut. That will give you 10 lbs of bullets from 10 lbs of alloy instead of 5 lbs of each. If you start with a full pot, you will probably be ready to quit casting for the day before you need to add lead.

Cut the sprue as soon as it solidifies and changes color. You will see the sprue puddle go from bright silver to a more dull color. At that point, you can cut it with your gloved hand. I drop it from the mold back into the pot. No big deal. I hate beating on molds to open the sprue plate. It’s just not necessary.

The speed of casting is pretty much determined by how easily bullets drop from the mold. If they drop really easily, a 2 cavity mold cycle is probably 10 seconds from filling to filling again. A 6 cavity is only 5 or so seconds longer, which is the time to fill the other 4 cavities. The lower alloy temp helps keep the mold from overheating. Once I open the spout on the bottom pout pot, I don’t close it until the mold is full. Just slide the mold to the next cavity.

Casting 500 bullets per hour with a 2 cavity mold is only 250 cycles in 3600 seconds, so an average of 14-15 seconds per cycle will get you there. That’s a comfortable pace after you have some experience under your belt.

If the mold gets too hot, cool it by putting it on a wet sponge for 4 or 5 seconds. Search for “speed casting” for more detail.

Good luck...

[Winger Ed.]

Just cast with one mold. Get it up to temp (your alloy temp is great) aka no wrinkles and start casting. Pour out the lead, watch it frost over, count 1, 2, 3, cut the sprue. (that's cadence).

That is how I do it, and have great results.
I've used a few Lee molds, but keep coming back to my Lyman and RCBS one or 2 cavity ones

Also-
I wear heavy welding gloves.
I cut the sprue by hand, catch it, set it back in the pot, then open the mold & water drop.
I never timed it, but I think doing 2-3 mold drops a minute is fairly realistic for my production rate.

[Shopdog]

Coming from,not as far out in left field as it's gonna sound.....

When you aren't casting,and you're hungry..... start using old cast iron skillets in the kitchen. It should bolster,or reinforce your understanding of how heat,patience,and practice all go together to making perfect fired eggs that when you jiggle the pan,they slide from side to side in as perfect of non stick as it gets.

It's not that big of a stretch to understand the time period of days gone by.... cast iron skillets for meals,provided by bullets cast over a fire. They sort of go together. I'd have to rank patience right up near the top of priorities on both,casting and cooking. "Time and temperature" is one of the foundational basics in chef school...... about the same for casting. Good luck with your project.

[OTShooter]

I was indeed letting the molds cool too long before cutting the sprue. It struck me that my first couple of casts "smeared" the sprue plate, so I slowed down. Maybe that wasn't smearing, just "marking."

Knowing I should count "1, 2, 3" or so before cutting the sprue, rather than sort of admiring the sprues makes a big difference.

I'm running around today, and I'll be looking at hot plates, among other things. Thanks for all the advice!

[kmw1954]

I happened to find and old bike chain sprocket in the shed left over from the kids. It fits perfectly across the hot plate and I lay the mold and ladle on it to heat up and this way I don't have to worry about hot spots from being in direct contact with the heating element.

[mdi]

Lot's of hints and I can only tell you what works for me. Most of my molds are Lee aluminum molds and I am rarely in a hurry so I only use one mold at a time. First, with a new mold I make sure every trace of machine oil is removed from the mold. Often start with Dawn and hot water, but also have used clean solvent (mineral spirits). I run the mold through a few "heat cycles" for a "break in" (I use a hot plate and heat the mold on high, allowing it to get as hot as it will, and then allow it to cool). Before each session I will more often than not spray the mold cavities with non chlorinated brake clean. I only use a plain dial thermometer and run my alloy between 690-725 degrees (for many years I didn't use a thermometer I just adjusted the temp by the appearance of the bullets;shiny, poor fill out, raise the heat. Frosty bullets lower the heat.). Iuse a hot plate on medium/high and don't hurry the pot or the mold. I use nothing in my molds, no smoke, pencil marks, nor commercial mold release. If I don't start getting keepers after four or five pours, I'll find out why and correct it. All the talk about cadence, mold temps and alloy temps is just about getting the right temperature balance of mold temp,alloy temp and cadence is just maintaining that balance...

The hardest bullet I've had to cast was a 1 oz. 12 ga hollow base slug. But getting the right balance, they soon started dropping with no wrinkles, no voids and a decent finish...

[popper]

I normally cast 725ish with the Lee pot. Watch the sprue, when it 'turns' frosty it should have a dimple unless you pour a huge puddle. Count from the pour to frosty, cut the sprue and see how it does. Pimple - pulling metal from the sprue. Divit - pulling metal from the bullet. Smear on the base - not waiting for the sprue to cool. For gang (4x or more) moulds, pour nearest the pivit bolt first - cools the quickest and more leverage on the sprue plate. Cast with ONE mould till you get it right. Hot mould AND sprue plate is a must. Last mould I got, vent lines were off (I think) smoking the blocks fixed the problem. Air has to come out of the mould or it expands and makes wrinkles. Got slight fining but that is not a problem. I've now changed to using a pencil to coat the sprue plate surface, just a drop of lube on the handle and pivit bolt. Pencil even removes lead smears from the plate.

[fredj338]

I run a Lee 20# with pid. I heat the mold on top of the pot or a hot plate if I use two molds. Set the pid for 700 & cast when everything is hot. I have no issue with 4 or 6cav molds. When they start getting too hot & bullets are really frosty, its about time to add back my spurs & add another 2-4# of ingots. I do like to warm the ingots on the hot plate as well.

[fcvan]

I started casting with Dad's SAECO pot and molds in the 1970s. When I was on my own I bought Lee molds and the 10lb bottom pour. I generally cast with 2 molds at a time, except with smaller molds. I didn't have a temp thermometer until I found one for cheap. Even then, I always looked at the sprue to test my temp. When casting just one mold and going for pace, I would blow on the sprue and then knock the plate open. Still, for years I cast only 2 molds, Lee 356-125 RN and Lee 452-230 RN. I would cast 100 of each (5lbs) and refill the pot. I would then lube/size 100 boolits and load them.

By the time I was done loading, the pot was up to temp and so were the molds as I set them on top of the pot to keep warm. Oh, and I cut a tin can lid to cover the pot to aid in heating up the lead and give me a space to rest the molds. Back then, I was shooting 1250 rounds a week. In later years, I began casting a Lee 401-180 TC and the 356-125 RN, the latter of which has cast more than 500k since 1985. I've had to rebuild it twice. I have many more molds, probably more in 452 than anything, and those are cast when supplies are depleted.

The Lee 356-102 has seen much more use of late as I bought it for shooting .380 ACP, but have recently been using it for 9mm through an AR15 in 9mm. Less lead, shoots very fast through the 16" bbl, and tin cans don't care how heavy the boolit is, they only know they've been hit. The Lee 356-95 RF sees probably more 38 SP loads than .380, but is a great training boolit for young shooters with a revolver.

The greatest advice I ever read was an article from 30 years ago about a guy in Idaho who hand poured from a 40lb propane plumber's pot. The larger volume kept temp more constant, the cadence was based upon the sprue frosting over, and patience. The writer said he had placed a barreled action of a 30-06 through a trash can filled with concrete, you can't get more stable than that. 5 shot groups, 1 ragged hole, can't get more consistent than that. I wish I had that article today, maybe it's on the net, but that inspired my casting, and later to cast for 30-06 and .308 Win.

Of late, I cast a lot of .225-62-RNPB from a 3 hole NOE mold, designed by a member here. Powder coated I'm getting 2250 from a Mini 14 and 2450 from a 24" single shot. The AR15 not so much, my alloy needs a little more hardness. Still, it's a fun shooter and cheap to cast for. I might be able to make the AR shoot better with a pistol length gas port and a 20" bbl. We shall see. Still, that NOE mold has to be cast like an old Hensley and Gibbs 10 holer, by pouring all holes continuously with one big sprue and watching it frost before opening. That mold cast perfect boolits right out of the box.

[Joe S]

I had problems keeping the mold temp up, especially with alum molds, and bought a hot plate. I put a 1/8" steel plate over the coils and set it at a medium setting. Setting the mold on the plate while you work the other mold greatly helps in keeping the mold temp up, especially when you have a cool breeze blowing.
I get best results at lead temp over 800 degrees, but others have good luck with lesser lead temp.
I hope this helps,
Joe S

[OTShooter]

I cast some bullets today, employing lots of advice and tips from here and elesewhere. It worked out well.

I ran my pot a lot hotter, I super cleaned the mold and smoked both cavities, and I sped up my pace a lot.

I cranked the temperature up to 850 once I got the old, not-quite bullets melted down. That helped a lot. It took only a few pours before I started getting well-filled, matte-looking bullets.

I wound up turning it down to 800 after a while, and still got good bullets.

I worked on my pace, and was actually able to open the sprue plate with just finger pressure (ok, very firm finger pressure) most of the time. I still had some cases of the bullets not wanting to release from the mold, but that wasn’t too big a deal.

I also found out that I needed to pay attention to the tension on the sprue plate screw, because I had a couple of pours where the plate was obviously too loose. And once I rushed and didn’t make sure the plate was closed before I started the pour... Yeah, that was messy, but I got it taken care of.

I need to work on getting the mold lined up perfectly under the spout. And I need to research the “Lee bottom pour drip fix,” because my pot started dripping a lot. It’s pretty clear that it’s because something got into the spout from the inside, and I’ll have to completely empty it and clean the spout.

But success!!!!. :D

[Walks]

Everything here is good advice. I'll only add a few things.

1) I cast from matching size molds. That way the height of the spout from the sprue plate is the same. Accurate & N.O.E. 4cav blocks are the same height. Lyman 4cav & RCBS 2cav are the same height, or too close to matter.

2) I use a small 4" fan I bought at a Beauty supply store to blow air across my molds to cool the sprues when I Cast from 2 molds.
I sometimes cast from 3-4 molds at a time. No fan is needed that way.

3) I too drop the sprues back into the pot after every cycle of 2,3,4 mold pours.
4) I cover the top 3/4 of my pot with an ingot mold.

[kmw1954]

I am casting with a Lyman ladle out of a 5.5" sauce pan on a hot plate turned all the way up. I have no idea of the temp as I don't yet have a thermometer. I do preheat both the mold and the ladle on the plate and then drop the Ladle into the lead to finish heating. I then also drop the end of the mold into the molten lead until it also comes out clean. Once at that point I start casting. I then try to control mold temp by my tempo. If wrinkled I speed up and one frosted I slow the pace down between pours.

[Conditor22]

800° ---- WOW I only go that high when casting pure. Like previously mentioned I do most of my casting between 690 and 710°

Add 2% tin (pewter) to COWW. preheat the mold (s) to 400 - 450 °

watch the sprue, when it changes color it's cool enough to cut.

with a bottom pour pot I "pressure cast" my first few mold fulls (hold he mold snug aginst the pot spout and fill the cavities, make sure you end up with a fair puddle on top to assure proper fill out.

Don't OVER SMOKE your molds

I smelt then cast my pewter into 1/2 oz boolits and if everything is working right but I still don't get good fill out I toss one in the pot and mix it in.

[OTShooter]

I used the short kitchen matches, and only got enough burn time to see a little soot deposited on the molds. I was worried that I wasn't getting enough soot, but it apparently worked OK.

I kinda don't have a way to measure the mold temperature. Do those "non-contact infrared thermometers" work with aluminum molds? They're available and not too terribly expensive.

[megasupermagnum]

I cast some bullets today, employing lots of advice and tips from here and elesewhere. It worked out well.

I ran my pot a lot hotter, I super cleaned the mold and smoked both cavities, and I sped up my pace a lot.

I cranked the temperature up to 850 once I got the old, not-quite bullets melted down. That helped a lot. It took only a few pours before I started getting well-filled, matte-looking bullets.

I wound up turning it down to 800 after a while, and still got good bullets.

I worked on my pace, and was actually able to open the sprue plate with just finger pressure (ok, very firm finger pressure) most of the time. I still had some cases of the bullets not wanting to release from the mold, but that wasn’t too big a deal.

I also found out that I needed to pay attention to the tension on the sprue plate screw, because I had a couple of pours where the plate was obviously too loose. And once I rushed and didn’t make sure the plate was closed before I started the pour... Yeah, that was messy, but I got it taken care of.

I need to work on getting the mold lined up perfectly under the spout. And I need to research the “Lee bottom pour drip fix,” because my pot started dripping a lot. It’s pretty clear that it’s because something got into the spout from the inside, and I’ll have to completely empty it and clean the spout.

But success!!!!. :D

The high temperatures always result in oxidation for me, in the form of yellow powder. Lead is mostly inert, but that lead oxide is extremely toxic, don't touch it. It's not the end of the world, but likely the cause of the dripping pot. I've got three Lee pots, and must have got lucky, because all three seal up good unless something like dirt or lead oxidation gets in there. All I do in that case is take a screw driver, and while pushing down slightly, twist the valve in and out a couple times. this is usually all it takes. If not, an allen wrench short end up the spout will clear it out. Use gloves when you do this.

[Rich/WIS]

I preheat on a solid top hot late set just below medium and cast at about 700 to 725 with range scrap and a Lee six cavity 452-200 SWC mold. Usually get good bullets by second pour. While waiting the the sprue to harden I add the previous sprue back into the pot. I set the mold guide for about a 1/2 inch drop. You will have to fiddle with things a bit to find the sweet spot on pour temp and hot plate. Usually fill, cut sprue when solid and refill. If mold is getting too hot will let it sit open for five or ten seconds and/or slightly lower pot temp. The issues you are having are all part of the learning process and we've all been there.

[Walks]

I've used an inverted ingot mold to cover my electric pot ever since I got an electric pot. Leave only enough room for the thermometer to fit down. Have a long shafted one and a jig for it so it doesn't come in contact with the bottom or sides of the pot.
Every 2nd cycle of the 3-4 molds I'm using I drop the sprues back in the pot. The temp. Only goes down about 10degrees. The small bit of cold alloy seems to keep the pot temp from climbing as the alloy level goes down. And it extends casting time.

[OTShooter]

I've had problems logging on to the forums since last weekend, but it's fixed now.

Here's a picture of the bullets I cast Sunday:
249968

I seem to have got the temperature right, maybe even a little too hot. I wound up casting for about 90 minutes and got over 120 bullets cast (not counting the culled not-quite-perfect ones). These are from Lee's 452-228-1R 2-cavity mold.

I had a couple of glitches, like once not closing the sprue plate before I stuck the mold under the pour spout... Not fun but fixable. And I got some small bit of lead stuck on the mold between the halves, which gave me some flash on a couple of bullets before I figured it out and cleared the stuff off.

My only real problem was that, as I went along casting, my Lee casting pot dripped more and more. It's like something got caught inside the spout, keeping the valve from closing. I have to get it hot and completely drain it, then take apart the pour valve to clean it, but that will wait for another - cooler! - day.

[kmw1954]

OTShooter, nice post and thanks for the PIX. Seems many people have been having problems logging on. Myself I haven't had any of that.

Bullets look nice from the picture. I too am thinking of getting that mold and after seeing yours it has reinforced that notion.

[Mitch]

Looks like you are in there!The bullets look good.You will now notice a few thing in the next casting sessions down the road.You will hit the prue hole every time lol.As you get everything going better things will chnage a bit.for one you mold will break in and cast better as you go.When your speed and temp it right you will notice the bullets drop out great and there will be very few bad ones.Likely as things come together you will get some frosty bullets.This means you are getting faster..all said and done evein when you get better at casting the casting gods will not be nice on some days or with a new mold.It is realy good that lead is able to be remelted.Oh Yea the frosty bullets are good much easyer problem to fix

[NYBushBro]

ANother method which works well is to use an electric hot plate, placing a piece of ceramic tile over the coil to spread the heat uniformly. Start with the "medium" setting on the hot plate and pre-heat your mold on it. Experiment with the setting until you get good bullets almost immediately. I cast outdoors in a screened porch to be assured of good ventilation, so the hotplate setting needs to be adjusted seasonally, as you need more in winter when wearing the snowmobile suit than in summer in a T-shirt. I use a 450-degree F. Tempilstik crayon to mark the mold blocks and calibrate the hotplate setting.

I like the Tempilstik idea... Give my regards to Ed.

[NYBushBro]

I am casting with a Lyman ladle out of a 5.5" sauce pan on a hot plate turned all the way up. I have no idea of the temp as I don't yet have a thermometer. I do preheat both the mold and the ladle on the plate and then drop the Ladle into the lead to finish heating. I then also drop the end of the mold into the molten lead until it also comes out clean. Once at that point I start casting. I then try to control mold temp by my tempo. If wrinkled I speed up and one frosted I slow the pace down between pours.

This fellow is casting "Patriot-style". KUDOS... a skill set which many casters may be prudent to pay attention to (ie: EMP blackout stuff).

PS: I would have called it 'hillbilly' - but this guy is from WI! Catskill Mtn. (NY) families are cut from the same cloth...

[kens]

I looked for a reference to the type of lead alloy you were casting, I didnt find any, in reference to frosty bullets.
If dead soft lead, it doesn't get frosted look until you are really really hot both mold and alloy pot.
If you casting antimony lead such as wheelweights, it will look frosty very easily, and my own expereince, it cannot be avoided.
Casting WW and frosty, I dont bother to worry about frosty, it doesnt matter to me.
Adding tin does help, even as little as .5% or 1% by weight helps mold fill out, and shiny prettyness

[kmw1954]

Again, my observation has been that the temp is right when I can take the ladle and mold and stick it into the molten lead and it doesn't freeze over the pot and that after a few minutes in the molten lead the mold will come out clean with no lead stuck to it. Then as described if the bullets are dropping wrinkled I speed up the pour rate it increase the mold temp. Fill and dump quickly. Once I see them starting to get frosty I slow the pace between the drop and the fill and the mold will cool. So far that is working for me with COWW's as the alloy.

[OTShooter]

I'm still working on managing the mold. I've tried dipping the mold into the melt, but between dodging the hardware on top of my casting pot (a Lee 4-20 with both the standard pour valve hardware and a thermocouple for the PID) and just learning how to move and maneuver these molds, I haven't gotten the knack yet.

[kmw1954]

Patience and practice, it will come together. Just pay attention and think about what you are doing and what is happening when you do it.

[vtech26]

I hear a lot of people talking about PIDs for controlling temp. I just might need to break down and order one.

To keep my moulds up to temp, I recently got a heating element with a circular saw blade on top. After 10 min on that thr bullets are pretty much good after the first fill.

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[PBaholic]

My only real problem was that, as I went along casting, my Lee casting pot dripped more and more. It's like something got caught inside the spout, keeping the valve from closing. I have to get it hot and completely drain it, then take apart the pour valve to clean it, but that will wait for another - cooler! - day.

Keep a flat bladed screwdriver handy. The dripping can be because of 2 reasons:

1. The heat from the pot expands the steel just a little, and you are no longer bottomed out in the valve. Adjust the screw when you are at temperature. I do this by looking at the distance between the bracket and the pot, and adjust it to 1/16" above bottom. This adjustment is critical, as you want to maximize the amount of lead you are getting out the bottom with 228 grain boolits. You need that extra amount of force from the volume of the lead, so that you are filling each mold fast enough. I used to open up the holes of my 230 grain 6 hole molds 1 drill size to give myself a little extra help in this manner.

2. The valve just drips. To fix this, take your screwdriver, and apply some downward force, and rotate the screw back and forth a little. This will clean out the dirt in the seat. You may have to do this 1 or 2 times during a session, but it should not be occurring constantly.

[popper]

Get a cheap tap handle, pull the adjusting screw out and attach the tap handle on the top of the pintle shaft (adjust position for max flow - don't let the pintle come out of the valve hole!). Adds weight and just rotate to clear junk in the valve. I do a pour, rotate with other hand while sprue is cooling, reduces drip - doesn't always stop it. No screw driver needed.

[trixter]

250404

This is where it starts I turn it on and up to where the 'medium' setting ends towards the 'high' setting, then set my mold on it.

then I plug in my lead pot, (no switch) and wait about 50 to 60 minutes, then everything is up to temp.

250405



I have found if I slow down the amount of lead that comes out of the spout, and let it run down the angled part of the sprue plate opening, I get perfect boolits every time and they fall out of the mold. I operate the pot at 760°. I cast quickly as it helps the mold stay up to temperature: fill all cavities count: 1001-1002-1003, cut sprue. Count 1001-1005 open mold and VOILA boolits.

Repeat.

[Hairy Dawg]

A couple of the best things I've done for my casting is to use a PID for my pot, and install thermocouples in my molds, which connect to a digital grill thermometer (bought thermometer from NOE, and extra thermocouples online). Once I find my sweet spot for a particular mold, I write the temp. on the mold box. That way I can begin casting perfect bullets from the very start, and it tells me when I need to pick up the pace, or slow down. I have NOE drill the molds I buy from them, and I've drilled all of my other molds myself. I don't have to fiddle fart around with guessing when things are the correct temp anymore.

[OS OK]

I hear a lot of people talking about PIDs for controlling temp. I just might need to break down and order one.

To keep my moulds up to temp, I recently got a heating element with a circular saw blade on top. After 10 min on that thr bullets are pretty much good after the first fill.

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Someone here mentioned using a tin can for an enclosure over the saw blade on the hot plate...making a sort of an 'oven'. I gave it a try...

https://i.imgur.com/X936R7j.jpg?1

Here an old Ideal single cavity mould with the pin is preheating as I watch the temp. of the oven with this cheap $6 BBQ thermometer...works great when I want to take a break when I have refilled the casting pot and am waiting on it to come back up to temp.

[Rapidrob]

An interesting device.
I did the PID conversion to my pots and will never look back.

[OTShooter]

On examining the sprue plate on the double cavity mold I have most recently used, the openings are anything but round. That looks like an area to address, at least to start.

I got a hot plate with a solid surface, and except for the fact that the mold handles tend to make the mold fall off of it, it's worked well for me. I need to come up with some sort of support for the handles, but I'm not sure if I need to make something that's heat resistant to put on the body of the hot plate (not the hot part, but the body of the device), or something that will sit off to the side of the hot plate. This is at least as challenging as getting a mold to sit on top of the casting pot...

[trixter]

For those of you that cast .224 boolits with Lee 6 cavity mold; what temperature of the lead works best for you?

[OS OK]

On examining the sprue plate on the double cavity mold I have most recently used, the openings are anything but round. That looks like an area to address, at least to start.

I got a hot plate with a solid surface, and except for the fact that the mold handles tend to make the mold fall off of it, it's worked well for me. I need to come up with some sort of support for the handles, but I'm not sure if I need to make something that's heat resistant to put on the body of the hot plate (not the hot part, but the body of the device), or something that will sit off to the side of the hot plate. This is at least as challenging as getting a mold to sit on top of the casting pot...

I took the lazy and quick solution to my handle heavy problem....here I have a block of 1" thick outside decking supporting them, this material is very dense and heavy so it'll sit there without moving around much. A block of wood would do the same thing...

https://i.imgur.com/iS7OqX0.jpg

[vtech26]

I took the lazy and quick solution to my handle heavy problem....here I have a block of 1" thick outside decking supporting them, this material is very dense and heavy so it'll sit there without moving around much. A block of wood would do the same thing...

https://i.imgur.com/iS7OqX0.jpgFantastic idea regarding the metal "housing" and handle support!

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