New to me P-17, or is that M1917 Enfield?

[Buckshot]

.............You might recall from the old board of my thread on the "Springfield Garage Sporter", that one of the guys at work had come across some barreled action odds and ends? So he broght'em in to work so I could identify them. He gave me a Springfield barreled action, serial 977***. This became the Garage Sporter.

So he had left: Complete 1917 less triggerguard and wood (Remington), Stripped 1917 bbl'd action (Remington), Springfield MkI barreled stripped action (#1119568), and a loose stripped Springfield action (low number) with milled triggerguard. In additon a 1903A3 triggerguard, Arisaka triggerguard and wrist iron, plus a couple Enfield magazine boxes (not SMLE or P-14 but 1917's).

I had come into a whole bunch of BPML stuff including a 54 cal rifle and 12ga double ML shotgun for not much money. He likes guns but doesn't have the burn, illness, malaise ........... whatever :lol:. I figured I could swap him this BP stuff for the mostly complete 1917. It's REAL nice and clean. Like new bore and fully complete Parkerizing.

He agreed to the deal and in the course of the conversation finally said, "Ah heck, you can have all that stuff as I'll prolly never do anything with it." Well great, that works for me :D Bring it on!

So the next weekend he hands me the 1917. Feeling a bit awkward I said if he'd changed his mind about the rest of the stuff that was okay. He said no he hadn't but he was kind of ashamed about it. You know what he did? As in the other post I related how he'd found them in a long metal box amongst a bunch of junk out on his desert property.

After cleaning them up externally with rags he put them back in the box and filled it with Diesel fuel. That's okay but the gomer put them BACK OUTSIDE :twisted: !! The box had gone through the monsoons we had and filled up with water, which floated all the Diesel out so all this unprotected iron just remained submerged for months. I told him he oughta have his ass whupped! Well, with a strained smile on my face I said it.

The next weekend he brings in these bright ORANGE pieces of wet metal in this wet metal box. I was sick, sick, sick. I got what I wanted in the first place in that nice 1917, but to treat such things like that is so alien to me as to be unbelieveable. I have to assume he just totally forgot about them.

As soon as I got them home, before going to bed I sprayed them all down with penetrating oil. I couldn't go to bed not knowing so I pushed a patch down the 2 rifle barrels and some gloppy greasy brownish goo came out. I then went to 4/0 steel wool on a 30 cal brush with carb cleaner and scrubbed away. A patch through both came out brown, but looking through them showed them to be shiny. The only exception was right at the muzzle the barrel surfaces looked stained, but no corrosive pitting or lost metal.

The chambers still have the oil deadened orange color, and I hope they come as clean as the barrels did. If so I think I'm safe as the external rust was just that soft dusty type and not scaly or thick. I still think he needs his butt kicked, but I believe they'll turn out okay.

On the 1917 Remington (not Eddystone) GPC was out of their stock and metal assemblies so I had to order all I needed seperately, which came to $130 inc shipping. All the stuff was pretty nice. The stock has never been assembled to a rifle and was a nice piece of black walnut. Dry and light after 85 years, but solid. It sucked up the BLO. The upper front handguard was Birch or Beech but the rear hanguard was walnut.

The buttplate is brand new! I don't think it's a repro as it's stamped 'R' and I can't really see them making repros? Guard screws looked new. The follower, floorplate, triggerguard, and mag box is a mixture of Remington and Eddystone parts. If it wasn't for some wear on the bolt's Parkerizing the thing would look almost unissued 8)!

Please don't take this as knocking the P14 and 17 Enfields, as they are proven battle rifles and I'm VERY glad to have this one. I have handled and shot them before, but having my 1903A1 Springfield and this P17 Enfield together and handling them both immediately together, the Springfield is definately a much more 'sportier' feeling and handleing rifle to be sure. I have no problem with cock on closing, so that isn't an issue. The P17 just seems a bit more awkward, or clubby?

I'll try to get some photo's up next week when I'm off.

...................Buckshot

[JDL]

Buckshot,
Glad to hear all wasn't ruined with the water bath. Some people are unremarkable for planning ahead! Yeah, those old 1917s were chunky feeling, but hellforstout! Sounds like you came out way ahead, good on ya :D .-JDL

[45nut]

Always a P-14 and The Model of 1917 BTW.
My Favorite Bolt Rifle action for the projects that I am fond of,large and larger.
I have somewhere near a Baker's Dozen of the old beauties in various and sundry phases, Bare actions number 5 for future ambitions.
If ya want a pure delight build that into Dep Al's fav. the 9.3 or my close cousin pick, the 35 Whelen. Ample power in either with ease of transition from the -06 case the 1917 was originally. My 35 is a hoot with 200gr CB's.
If ya want something to knock your teeth loose,well you can build that on that action as well,my 500A2,458Lott,416Rem,et all are built on the Big Enfields.
Not giving up on any other toys,but these Enfields will always be near and dear.

[BruceB]

Back around 1965 or thereabouts, I was privileged to be the temporary custodian of a nice custom rifle based on a P-14. (The Brit rifle is the Pattern 14, and the US rifle is the Model 1917, btw.)

The rifle had been de-eared (?), polished and blued, and a nice custom stock added, and also it was rebarreled to a true classic....the .300 H&H. There was a considerable fad for using P-14s for H&H calibers because the .303 bolt didn't need (much) work on its extractor and boltface to accomodate the larger case. An early K4 filled-out the ensemble.

I had the rifle in camp in the Barrens one spring, and we noticed that every few days a big white wolf on his regular trapline would cross the face of a drumlin (big glacier-deposited gravel ridge) about 400 yards from camp. After seeing this for several weeks, I took a target out there and zeroed the rifle for the distance....400 or whatever. The next time Mr. Wolf came along, my partner fired a shot from a 9mm to get his attention. He stopped to look, and the .300 ended his career right there. Sneaky....

I'm sorry to report that an issue P-14/M1917 is only barely beaten-out in the ugly market by the French service rifles. Great rifles they surely are, but beside a 1903 Springfield (or even a #4) they are definitely the mud-fence sister of the family. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and there's no accounting for tastes...right, Ken? "Ugly girls need love, too" and, "The Girls All Git Purtier At Closin' Time"....heh heh. I'd need a few drinks before warming up to one of them these days.

There...THAT might stir some responses!

[45nut]

:D I sure can't argue with you on that point Bruce. Since I won't be winning any modeling contracts myself these rifles suit me just fine :lol:
The Svelte Rifles like the 1903 are welcome here as well BTW. As well as the ugly duckling's of the levergun camp,my 99 Savage 308's. And the SMLE 303's have hit a few branches of the ugly tree when they fell.
None of that detracts from the pure spirit of the role they play in our hobby,and in the case of the Battle Rifles,they are intended for duty where glory is given by deeds. These rifles have that covered. :wink:

[BruceB]

Dang...beauty really DOES depend on who's looking! I always thought Savage 99s were very cool-looking rifles. I've never had the good fortune (or good sense) to own one (so far) but they certainly do appeal to me. Was it the 99EG with the longer forend and schnabble tip?? That was one sexy rifle, just about as neat as a Model 64 Winchester, which I also have neglected to own. Something about that half-magazine.....

One of the very few things wrong with the 99 is just the safety on the earlier models. The little lever beside the BIG lever was on the wrong side for us lefties, and very difficult to use. The tang safeties are much easier, of course, but the guns aren't quite as pretty as the earlier ones.

Oh yeah...the '14/'17s sure earned their laurels where it counts! My 'Melican Grandpa went overseas in '17 with a Springfield (he transferred from the U.S. Cavalry to get an infantry berth and a trip to France, i.e. VOLUNTEERED) but he said that he made a point of getting a '17 as quickly as he could due mostly to the vastly-better sights. I seem to recall that it took some months before the '17s made it to the front. He was very much a rifleman long before his Army service days. My Canuck Grandpa arrived in France in 1915 with a Ross, which he and all the rest of the unit replaced ASAP with #1 Mk III Enfields.

Sitting here now, I feel damned fortunate that both these gents had good rifles and won through to the end. Otherwise, I wouldn't BE sitting here now! My Grandpa Anderson of the US Army was actually on the front lines when the Armistice came into effect, 11:11, 11 November 1918, and he told me many times of hearing the unearthly silence fall after years of warfare.

Grandpa Anderson's Father-in-Law was my Great-Grandfather Stoddard, whom I also remember well. He was a boy during the Great Unpleasantness of 1861-65. He vividly remembered the Houghton Company of Upper Michigan marching off to join its parent Michigan regiment at the outset of war in '61. I often played as a boy in the shadow of the statue of the Civil War soldier in Houghton which commemorates that unit. I hope it's still there. Our history is not all that long, when folks like me recall talking to people involved in earthshaking events over two-thirds of our country's lifespan.

I have no question in my mind about why military rifles fascinate me. They are truly a physical connection with our history and the momentous events which have shaped our world right ot the present day.

[StarMetal]

Bruce

If you like the looks of the Savage 99 I hope that you get an opportunity to look at and hold an early one with the tapered octagon barrel with German silver blade front sight. My friend traded into one and it's in one of the earlier calibers of 303 Savage. Beautiful rifle.

Yes our history is indeed short if you yourself have talked to veterans from the Civil War. When I was a small child the neighbor across the street was a WWI Vet, but if he talked any about it I was too small to remember. I do remember the folks saying he unfortunately got gassed during the war and that he, as they would say, wasn't right...poor old chap. I myself found him quite loving, humorous, and just plain fun to be around. His last name was Williams so I reckon that would make him English or there-abouts.

My Dad's first rifle that I can remember he hunted deer with was a SMLE #4, one of the ones made by Savage. I got to look at it and handle it some each deer season. That was a big deal for me and I guess it left a lasting impression as I just love the old military rifles till this day. You know, we know what their real intended purpose were, but now to own one they are instruments of wonderful joy to have and to shoot. An enjoyment far from their battle days.

Joe