In .45 Colt--which do you prefer the Lyman 452190 or 452424 and why?

[Wally]

I have tried both....I find that I like the 452424 better because it has a crimping groove. I have never been happy with the crimp on the 454190---and I have used two different seater dies with it. I also have found that the 452424 is more accurate, although not by much. In my Ruger BHK, with the same powder charge, the 454190 always shoots at a higher velocity.

[Outpost75]

#452424 is a good bullet and I'd always pick the more accurate choice. No brainer.

[Wally]

I have discussed this with others...most have told me they prefer the 454190....... as it just looks better.

[cwlongshot]

Good bullets!! I prefer the 454424 myself. Its slightly swuater with a bit more meplat.

But must confess not having used the 454190.

CW

[rintinglen]

I like crimp grooves: ergo, make mine the 452-424. But if you are a traditionalist, then the 120+ year old 454-190 should get your vote.

[jonp]

454190

[Wally]

The 454190 requires cases to be the same length. Almost all my .45 Colyt cases are shorter than 1.295" as it is. Remington's always seem to be much shorter. When you crimp some seem to crimp more than others. Then there is brass spring back.... Crimp too deep and you crinkle the case necks---which invariably shortens their life, ie. neck splits. No problem when using the 452424.

[higgins]

I haven't tried the 424, but had better accuracy with the 454190 than with other SWCs I tried. I'm a traditionalist too, so that's a factor. I use a taper crimp die and haven't found case length to be a critical factor for my use.

[bedbugbilly]

It's up to what you like best and what works for you.

Personally, I prefer the 452/454-190 traditional RNFP in my 45 LC Uberti Cattleman. I shoots very accurately over BP, Red Dot, Green Dot, Unique and Bulls Eye out of my revolver - to me, I view the 45 Colt (and the 45 Schofield) as "historical cartridges" so like the traditional look better. I've never had any crimping issues with it. I seat and crimp in separate operations - use either the standard dies/press or hand had with my steel 31- tong and dies. But . . everyone has their preferences and it's all about what you like best and what you find more accurate out of your individaual guns.

[Love Life]

454190 with a lee collet crimp.

[Larry Gibson]

If hunting deer, pigs, etc. I prefer the 454424 because its terminal effect is better given the SWC and larger meplat shape. However, I mostly just plink so the Lee 454-205-RF is what I mostly use. Other than for testing "traditional" 45 Colt loads I never really had much use for the 454190.

[Wally]

Larry...music to my ears. I had a Lee 205-RF, but it was not very accurate and I got lousy Std Deviations with it. I really wanted it to work for me. Many love the RCBS 270 SAA bullet, probably because it is heavy and works well with any powder/load.


If hunting deer, pigs, etc. I prefer the 454424 because its terminal effect is better given the SWC and larger meplat shape. However, I mostly just plink so the Lee 454-205-RF is what I mostly use. Other than for testing "traditional" 45 Colt loads I never really had much use for the 454190.

[Wally]

I tried a TC die that I use with a .45 ACP....it does work better than a roll crimp on that bullet. I will also "admit" that the 454190 is quite accurate. Sadly I don't have a .454" sizer die, so I have to size down to .452"....I have resisted buying the .454" sizer die. However I have pan lubed with it; which worked out quite well. I even have a TP and seating stem for the 454190! I thought it'd be nice to have an open discussion on this topic.


I haven't tried the 424, but had better accuracy with the 454190 than with other SWCs I tried. I'm a traditionalist too, so that's a factor. I use a taper crimp die and haven't found case length to be a critical factor for my use.

[Char-Gar]

The old Keith (452424) gets the nod from me. The idea is to hit something, either paper or flesh, with the bullet and for that use the Keith is better. Who cares what it looks like?

[Wally]

I agree, but I have shooting buddies that just like the looks of the profile on the 454190....something to do with it being traditional. However they seem not to like a RN bullet in the .38 Special---I believe that is traditional?



The old Keith (452424) gets the nod from me. The idea is to it something, either paper or flesh, with the bullet and for that use the Keith is better. Who cares what it looks like?

[Outpost75]

+1 on what Larry said.

Unless you are loading BP in compressed charges which provide base support for the bullet it is absolutely necessary to have a substantial crimp groove. Keith nailed the essential design elements, in having a crimp groove, plus a full-diameter driving band north of the crimp groove to align the cartridge in the chamber throat and also a large meplat 0.6 to 0.7 of bullet diameter to ensure adequate shocking power. Keith also favored bullet weight over velocity and was firm in his opinion that over 1000 fps was unnecessary, but that soft alloys not harder than 1:16 tin-lead were desired.

In his later years when I met with him personally while working at Ruger, he said that looking back, if he were to do it again he would have favored a heavier bullet of 270-280 grains.

247670

[smithnframe]

Elmer's bullet of course!

[Follow Me]

Greetings
I had a neighbor that cast the 452424 boolit for me. I remember that he talked about the crimp groove and it’s impact on firing in my Ruger Black Hawk. We liked to shoot at fireplace logs. Knocked those logs ever which way.
He was a fine friend and a WW2 “Cannon Cocker”. He died while I was in Nam in 61. His wife gave me the mold which I still have.
Just an old man rambling on.
Follow Me

[cwlongshot]

Well it depends upon the version

My 452424 has round grooves. Elmers where square like my 454424. But a both good SWC designs for sure!


Elmer's bullet of course!

[georgerkahn]

I'm kind of a new-be re the .45 Colt, a quite-used Vaquero in that caliber shouting "buy me!" a few months ago. Hence, I cast two, and loaded/shot three bullets: Interestingly, both the Lyman's you wrote about, as well as a wad-cutter (which I love -- 'nother story ;) ).
Frankly, bear in mind I have not shot thousands of either -- However, in my very short test period -- perhaps 150 or so of the '424, and 100 of the '190, I give the 452424 the "edge" as my favourite. I concur that, for me, it is a tad more accurate, albeit the greatest amount of my shooting (thus far) has been from a Hebard Pistol Perch rest at ~ 62 feet. I might add, I think they're BOTH good bullets! I have not, as yet, shot over the chrony with either.
geo

[greenjoytj]

I don’t like the SWC design because I find the wad cutter ring always snags the chamber mouth on loading therefore requiring a little wiggling to get the cartridge to chamber.
For paper target scoring the wad cutter ring does cut nice clean holes.

It was wasn’t on the OP list of choices but I prefer the Lyman 452664 non SWC design because it chambers smoothly and has a wide meplat that makes big holes in paper targets.
The bevel base is a non issue I consider it a bonus. In my Redding lubri-sizer I routinely wipe the base just to be sure even when lubing sizing flat base bullets.
My new Ruger NV’s don’t require the .454” dia. bullets like old Colts.
I just wish the #1 cavity on my 4 cavity 452664 mold would drop 20:1 alloy a thou bigger dia.

[oldhenry]

I have both (454424 Lyman & RCBS 250-250FN (452190 clone). I like both because I can size to larger size if wanted (both can produce .455 which is perfect for my DougGuy altered RBH conv. cylinders). I shoot mostly 454424 because of the crimp groove & I like that wide meplat. As far as accuracy: they both shoot better than I can hold.
Henry

[Beagle333]

452424. Crimp groove, meplat, shoots very well for me.

[Wally]

Yes, I'd imagine you'd not like it if chamber w/difficulty. No problem in my Ruger BHK.


I don’t like the SWC design because I find the wad cutter ring always snags the chamber mouth on loading therefore requiring a little wiggling to get the cartridge to chamber.
For paper target scoring the wad cutter ring does cut nice clean holes.

It was wasn’t on the OP list of choices but I prefer the Lyman 452664 non SWC design because it chambers smoothly and has a wide meplat that makes big holes in paper targets.
The bevel base is a non issue I consider it a bonus. In my Redding lubri-sizer I routinely wipe the base just to be sure even when lubing sizing flat base bullets.
My new Ruger NV’s don’t require the .454” dia. bullets like old Colts.
I just wish the #1 cavity on my 4 cavity 452664 mold would drop 20:1 alloy a thou bigger dia.

[nvbirdman]

I like the 190 for standard loads and the 424 for Ruger only loads. Makes it real easy to tell what I'm putting in my gun.

[MT Gianni]

I have seen a picture of eleven different bullets Lyman put the 454424 stamp on. Not large differences but nose length, middle band widths and meplate slight differences. I have two DC molds that appear to cast the same version. I prefer it to the 190.

[alamogunr]

I don't have a 454424 mold or 452190 so I can't pick one. I do have 45-270-SAA in both RCBS and MP molds. Not having anything to compare with I have to say that both these molds cast beautiful boolits. I've gotten too old to worry about differences in accuracy. Someone else would have to shoot them in my guns to find out what was more accurate. My loads satisfy me.

I wonder what Elmer would have said about the 45-270-SAA.

[one-eyed fat man]

454190 - You don't need a crimp groove if you fill the case with 3F.

[LenH]

I have never owned the 454190 therefor I cannot comment on it. I do have 2 454-424 molds. One a very old Lyman and one from NOE. Both shoot
great out of an old Black hawk and a RedHawk.

[Wally]

Why do you prefer the 454424 to the 454190?





I have seen a picture of eleven different bullets Lyman put the 454424 stamp on. Not large differences but nose length, middle band widths and meplate slight differences. I have two DC molds that appear to cast the same version. I prefer it to the 190.

[Char-Gar]

I wonder what Elmer would have said about the 45-270-SAA.

I think he would have said, "Yea, that is what I had in mind."

[DougGuy]

I wonder what Elmer would have said about the 45-270-SAA.

If Elmer had started with the 45-270-SAA in 45 Schofield brass, he would have turned a 45 Special into the 45 Magnum. IF only they had a gun chambered in 45 Schofield back in his day that would have withstood 45ACP+P pressures. Getting a 250gr boolit to 1200fps at the muzzle comes VERY easy in Schofield brass and remains under 23,000psi while doing it.

I use the 454190 sized .456" with SPG lube in my avatar pistol, it has .4565" throats and shoots the old round nosed boolit quite accurately. In fact it is the only gun I load the 454190 for, so I can rest assured to only shoot this in the Uberti, no chance of getting over pressure loads mixed in.

[fatelk]

I know this question is a bit off the specific topic for this thread, but anyone here use the Lee 452-255-RF? I already have a 454190 and was thinking about trying something different. I can’t really justify buying a Lyman mold, but could pick up a cheap Lee mold. The design looks decent, crimp groove, wide flat nose.

[Love Life]

I shot the Lee bullet a lot in the 454 casull. It was a good boolit.

[Good Cheer]

Got a soft spot for the old nose style with big lube grooves.
http://i.imgur.com/7wUK9VK.jpg (https://imgur.com/7wUK9VK)

[Good Cheer]

I need to try the hollow base plug in the Walker and Dragoon.