Cast bullets in 45-90

[Fotis]

Hi guys. I have been trying to work on a load for my new Winchester 1886 45-90 rifle. I am using AA5744 and Oregon trail cast 405. At 38 gr I was getting 1700 fps and abysmal accuracy at 100 yards. Today I went out and tried 35 grains and again I was getting bad accuracy and 1595 fps. Am I pushing them too fast? Clean up was not fun with the 38 grain load. Is there somebody else who makes cast bullets specifically in 405 grain that will withstand that kind of velocity? I am only interested in about 1500 fps. Would a coated bullet work better????

[DonH]

If I am not mistaken the .45-90 was originally an "express" type cartridge meaning big charge of powder with light-for-caliber bullet like 290-300 grains. You may want to check the twist rate of your barrel. BPCR shooters get excellent accuracy with 540 grain bullets fired from the .45-90 case but with twist usually faster than 1/20".

[swamp]

How about bore and groove diameter? Also boolet diameter?
swamp

[17nut]

Is it an original old Winnie?
Then it has a 1:32" twist and wont stabilize bullets longer than 1" or slightly under if slower.
The Lyman 457122 shoots fine in mine as does a modified Lee 459-405-HB that i snipped @.1" of the front.

[Fotis]

If I am not mistaken the .45-90 was originally an "express" type cartridge meaning big charge of powder with light-for-caliber bullet like 290-300 grains. You may want to check the twist rate of your barrel. BPCR shooters get excellent accuracy with 540 grain bullets fired from the .45-90 case but with twist usually faster than 1/20".

It is a new Miroku 1886 1:20 twist

[cwtebay]

I have used the Oregon Trail 405 in my original 1886 with BP or trail boss. Same bullet with 36 grains 5744 in a miruko with decent results. Far better results with lighter bullets though. Best from the miruko has been a Lyman 330 hollow point (mould number escapes me).
As an aside - does anyone else find it odd that Winchester didn't produce any ammunition for their 45-90 1886?

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[Larry Gibson]

Am I pushing them too fast?

Short answer is yes.....obviously......

You might switch powders and load them down to 1300 - 1400 fps. However, if you want to use commercial cast at those velocities you might look for a vender that sells suitable GC'd bullets.

[17nut]

I have used the Oregon Trail 405 in my original 1886 with BP or trail boss. Same bullet with 36 grains 5744 in a miruko with decent results. Far better results with lighter bullets though. Best from the miruko has been a Lyman 330 hollow point (mould number escapes me).
As an aside - does anyone else find it odd that Winchester didn't produce any ammunition for their 45-90 1886?

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You mean like this:
246901
246902
246903
246904

Why on earth do you think they invented a caliber for themselves and then not supply ammo for it?

[cwtebay]

You mean like this:
246901
246902
246903
246904

Why on earth do you think they invented a caliber for themselves and then not supply ammo for it?Oh my! Meant the Miruko. I have the same box.......

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[Fotis]

Ordered some 420 gr cast performance with gas check

[country gent]

I have a C SHarps Hepburn in 45-90 with 1 - 18 twist barrel. It does very good with 550 grn bullets cast of 1-20 lead tin. I am loading over black powder to around 1150-1200 fps. My load is starline brass enough Olde Ensfode 1 f to have .090 compression a .060 napa rubber fiber wad 2 tracing paper wads and the bullet hand seated onto this. Rings rams at 500 yds all day long. I would look at the 500 grn lyman govt or its 405 grn version with your twist rate. Also look for a powder that leaves as little airspace in the case as possible. These big cases with smokeless can have a lot of airspace left for powder to shift around in.

The plus to black powder is no airspace charges are compressed. 2 with the card wad and right load bullets are supported meaning lighter neck tension and crimps can be used. Usually with the compressed charge and wad velocity drops in right were it should be.
I had leading problems with a 45-70 and hard purchased bullets, I believe 1) fit was poor and 2) bullet didn't swell to fill bore throat like the softer alloys do. In reality while a big case its a lower pressure round and hard bullets and lube may not seal work as well.
Try some test bullets from Montana Vintage Arms they have 20-1 and spg lubed. these may help. Trac of the wolf also has softer versions available.
A lot shoot Paper Patched bore riders from 20-1 or even pure lead no grease grooves these are wrapped in a thin paper to just fit bore and loaded long ( only 1/8" - 3/16" in the case the rest is in the bore. On firing the bullet swells paper engages the rifling and accuracy can be very good.
A hard bullet in a lower pressure round may not seal the bore

[Bird]

Hi guys. I have been trying to work on a load for my new Winchester 1886 45-90 rifle. I am using AA5744 and Oregon trail cast 405. At 38 gr I was getting 1700 fps and abysmal accuracy at 100 yards. Today I went out and tried 35 grains and again I was getting bad accuracy and 1595 fps. Am I pushing them too fast? Clean up was not fun with the 38 grain load. Is there somebody else who makes cast bullets specifically in 405 grain that will withstand that kind of velocity? I am only interested in about 1500 fps. Would a coated bullet work better????
With those bullets, drop the velocity down to 1450fps using IMR4198. Your leading should go away.

[smithnframe]

Try 80-90 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 blackpowder! Or if you don't like blackpowder try 5744!

[NSB]

Oregon Trail bullets are available in both .458" and .459".....which one are you shooting? Also, as mentioned above, lower the velocity or use gas checked bullets. I've gotten "decent" accuracy from Oregon Trail bullets, but at much lower velocities.

[Fotis]

Oregon Trail bullets are available in both .458" and .459".....which one are you shooting? Also, as mentioned above, lower the velocity or use gas checked bullets. I've gotten "decent" accuracy from Oregon Trail bullets, but at much lower velocities.

459 diameter

[Fotis]

Try 80-90 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 blackpowder! Or if you don't like blackpowder try 5744!I am using 5744

[fredj338]

0.459" would be a minimum size. IMO, Oregon Trail are too hard. A softer bullet running 1500fps should improve accuracy.

[Fotis]

Thank you!

[Rick B]

Montana Bullet Works has a good selection of 300-330 grain gas check bullets. Also offers oversized bullets. With a gas check and the proper diameter, your rifle should come around.
Rick