A Lyman devastator mushroom to share...

[Tripplebeards]

I did some water testing with a few different types of alloys the summer before last with the Lyman devastator. I have them listed on my home page if anyone’s interested along with groups and load data. Well I quickly learned water is WAY harder then WI whitetail as my perfect 15.4 BH water mushroomed alloy never expanded in whitetails leaving boolit sized diameter exit holes in the hides of all three deer I harvested last year with two that made it 100 and 120 yards before expiring with perfect behind the shoulder, broadside lung shots. This left very little to no blood to trail. This year I’m switching to my softer alloy mix that will hopefully cause tons of trauma and shock to knock them off their feet...we all know it’s not possible all the time(and I’m going to hear it several times on this post)but I definitely want to give this 16:1 pewter/lead floor alloy a try. I do not care about “eating all the way up to the hole” as well. I would rather see an animal literally get knocked off its feet and expire humanly right there on the spot...and that’s without a head, spine or neck shot to paralyze it. I’m hoping my alloy will act more like a 243 70 grain ballistic tip on a coyote. The hammer of THOR! Lol...well I can always dream. I hunt 75 yards off my property line so I want try and find an alloy the anchors my deer where they stand. I passed up using this 7.5 BH alloy being it looked like a wide flattened penny and not passing through alot of water jugs when I did my water test the summer before last. Well I figured I’m going to try it this year. The boolit below started as a .430” Lyman devastator, smoke’s clear PC, and GC’d. My load chronies at 1600 FPS out of my Ruger 77/44. This boolit was recovered at 25 yards in a dirt backstop. It weighed a 154 grains and when I added the sheared off piece I found right next to it when added to my scale totaled 180 grains. Yes, it’s a far cry from 265 grains...and some would say it failed, but not me. I want a boolit that rapidly expands causing TONS of trauma and hopefully dropping the animal in its tracks. If my deer do not drop with this alloy I would sure think it will make a lot bigger exit hole for an actual blood trail. Last year two of three deer did not leave a blood trail with a boolit diameter exit for me until about about 50 to 75 yards with just a few drops here and there. Finger crossed! Stay tuned!!!

The boolit expanded to almost twice it’s diameter.

https://i.imgur.com/yaDmlG6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/9FZ2hCA.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/0oV8SVp.jpg

[megasupermagnum]

Not failed, that's fantastic. The chunk probably broke off because it hit a rock. That is the beauty of the lead/tin alloy, the stuff is tough as nails even though it is soft. A failed bullet would be the same thing but cast of clip on wheel weights. They just explode into shrapnel. What you have there is going to leave a big hole, and your rifle velocity should give you plenty of penetration.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Looking forward to the results!

[Tripplebeards]

Here’s another pic. Kind of blurry but at another angle.

https://i.imgur.com/TjEt0qO.jpg

[35remington]

To some extent you need to temper expectations of what animals do when shot. I’ve shot whitetail deer with rounds that so thoroughly destroyed lung tissue that nothing was recognizable as an organ. Just blood soup with chunks in it.

They still ran 40 plus yards.

The idea of bang flops being attainable most of the time are the belief of those who haven’t shot many deer. Without something to stop them from moving like a spine hit it still takes a little while for them to realize they are dead. A 30-40 yard death run with a shot that hits and severely destroys vital tissue other than spine or brain is the normal condition.

Motionless kills are not the standard occurrence. You can do better than a 120 yard death run most likely, but you won’t achieve electric death.

[Tripplebeards]

I agree. But I can tell you I’ve had dozens upon dozens of bang flops using a 30-06 and a 180 grain core locts...with shoulder shots. I have been taking broadside,behind the shoulder, heart lung shots the last 20 years 99.9% of the time so yes they either drop on the spot or go at max 40 yards. I would have been happy with 40 yards with both the above deer...that should have gone 40 yards or less with the shot placement I made. I have photos of them with the holes posted here on this forum for a reference. I’ve shot several dozen HUGE bucks with arrows that have traveled less then 40 yards and dropped dead within seconds so I would expect a cast boolit with WAY more energy at least do the same.

[8mmFan]

Please post your results later this fall. I am sure that many here would be interested in the results, myself included.

8mmFan

[megasupermagnum]

My experience has been the same. A good double lung or heart shot with a good load, the deer very rarely goes more than 40-50 yards. Some guys are willing to put up with deer that run 100+ yards, those guys probably hunt open country where deer have nowhere to hide.There's always going to be that freak incident, which is what I think happened to you Tripplebeards.

[John McCorkle]

Not failed, that's fantastic. The chunk probably broke off because it hit a rock. That is the beauty of the lead/tin alloy, the stuff is tough as nails even though it is soft. A failed bullet would be the same thing but cast of clip on wheel weights. They just explode into shrapnel. What you have there is going to leave a big hole, and your rifle velocity should give you plenty of penetration.What is it in the alloy of coww that will make them brittle?

I'm planning an alloy for a mihec hp mold I got for 300 blk use...prob going to be around 2000fps or so...was going to sweeten coww with a bit of pure (70/30 or so) but your post has me second guessing that...



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[Markopolo]

hey tripp!!! where is e before pic of your boolit??

i too must as much as humanly possible anchor a deer where hit.. around here if a deer runs after hit, there is a highly likelyhood of a lost deer. unless you have a wonder dog like mine.. he he. but my dog has been untested this year so far... i am hoping she is semi retired of sniffin out lost deer...

[Tripplebeards]

I had to dig...

https://i.imgur.com/ajbVCfP.jpg

I like that clear PC!

You can see scratches and dents from me tumble coating them but the imperfections are all filled in by the clear PC and are as smooooth as glass.

[tomme boy]

Good luck! I have shot deer at 10yds with a 12ga 3" 1oz slug and they still ran 200 yds. I have also shot deer with a 50 cal muzzleloader with a round ball at 25 yds and they fell over.

Each deer is going to act different than another. If you truly want to anchor them right where they stand then choose a accurate enough load and brain box them. Or a high neck shot.

[Larry Gibson]

What is it in the alloy of coww that will make them brittle?

I'm planning an alloy for a mihec hp mold I got for 300 blk use...prob going to be around 2000fps or so...was going to sweeten coww with a bit of pure (70/30 or so) but your post has me second guessing that...



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It is the antimony, when it is in greater percentage than the tin, that makes them "brittle". Balancing the antimony with tin makes them "harder" but more malleable. Antimony at 5 % with an equal 5 % tin will form a sub-metal SbSn and will stay in solution in the lead during casting and when solidifying. That is Lyman #2 alloy (90/5/5). Any antimony that is not mixed with tine (SbSn) will solidify before the alloy does causing the "brittleness".

If you take todays COWWs and smelt them correctly you end up with something close to 97/2.5/.5 of lead/antimony/tin. Adding 2% tin to the alloy to the COWW alloy will then balance the antimony with the tin and give a stronger (harder BHN) which is more malleable. Then you can add more pure lead to decrease the percentage of SbSn making the alloy softer yet still malleable. I prefer a mix of 50/50 with hunting bullets pushing 2000+ fps. However, it still has antimony in it and as a ternary alloy will not be as malleable as a binary alloy of lead/tin. Otherwise I prefer a binary alloy (16-1, lead/tin) alloy for upwards of 1800 fps with a GC'd bullet. You'll have to experiment to see which alloy will hold up during acceleration in the bullet/load combination you use in your rifle at 2000 fps.

[Tripplebeards]

Larry, this is the alloy you suggested for bear hunting over bait when I was messing with different mixes. My shooter never saw a bear to connect with so my 7.5 BH alloy wasn’t ever tested on game.

[Larry Gibson]

Like you, I don't care about a little "wasted meat" and prefer the animal to be DRT as close as possible. Having lost a couple deer that were hit well I gave up the "double lung shot" many years ago. Yes it is lethal but many times not before the deer traveled a long distance. In rainy forests with many red multicolored leaves on the ground tracking can be impossible. I advocate aiming to put the bullet through the heart regardless of the angle.

Anyways I think you find the 16-1 alloy will be best. You may or may not have to adjust the velocity down a bit to maintain accuracy as I've had good accuracy with the Devastator cast of it up through 1650 fps. Haven't pushed that bullet above that though. I go to the ternary bullet when velocity is pushed at 20000+ fps.

[Tripplebeards]

I shot a .8” group with the above 1600 FPS load combo at 100 yards the first time I ladder tested it so I’m good to go. The faster I run the groups gradually open up closer to 2 MOA.

[John McCorkle]

It is the antimony, when it is in greater percentage than the tin, that makes them "brittle". Balancing the antimony with tin makes them "harder" but more malleable. Antimony at 5 % with an equal 5 % tin will form a sub-metal SbSn and will stay in solution in the lead during casting and when solidifying. That is Lyman #2 alloy (90/5/5). Any antimony that is not mixed with tine (SbSn) will solidify before the alloy does causing the "brittleness".

If you take todays COWWs and smelt them correctly you end up with something close to 97/2.5/.5 of lead/antimony/tin. Adding 2% tin to the alloy to the COWW alloy will then balance the antimony with the tin and give a stronger (harder BHN) which is more malleable. Then you can add more pure lead to decrease the percentage of SbSn making the alloy softer yet still malleable. I prefer a mix of 50/50 with hunting bullets pushing 2000+ fps. However, it still has antimony in it and as a ternary alloy will not be as malleable as a binary alloy of lead/tin. Otherwise I prefer a binary alloy (16-1, lead/tin) alloy for upwards of 1800 fps with a GC'd bullet. You'll have to experiment to see which alloy will hold up during acceleration in the bullet/load combination you use in your rifle at 2000 fps.Is there a linear correlation between amount on antimony and brittleness?

Ie what if I took a 16:1 pb/sn and added a bit of wheel weight to the mix? If I find 16:1 doesn't get me accuracy would a touch of antimony help (of course nothing is for sure but just testing the waters to see if anyone else has tried this)

If I can get a hp to mushroom at 1900-2000 fps I'm happy. I'll be powder coating and gas checking so hopefully I get a bit more leeway out of the tolerance to leading and accuracy.

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[Tripplebeards]

John, when I was water testing my 50/50 alloy(pure lead from flooring which I tested at 5 BH and clip on wheel weights that I tested around 13.4 BH if I remember correctly) with 2% pewter added looked about the same in my water test but penetrated about twice the water jugs before looking like a flattened penny. I air cooled my 50/50 alloy boolits as I didn’t want the COWW’s BH to harden. The 50/50 alloy held together very similar to the above boolit and kept peeling back before braking off. It tested round 10.4 BH if I remember. So imo the 50/50 is going to be tougher and penetrate more. Think the 50/50 went through 5/6 water jugs VS 3 with my 16:1 mix. I have pics of the water tested mushrooms on my home page. Once again I’m trying kill deer and not water jugs so I would assume the 50/50 mix will not leave as big as an exit hole as the softer 16:1 pewter lead mix.

[tomme boy]

Factory bullet cores and shotgun slugs are around 5% antimony. It allows the lead to flow and swage better than pure. But tin helps to hold the lead together for a more (tougher) or resilient alloy. The tin will help the bullet to grab the rifling and not strip it. With just antimony it will strip the rifling a lot more easily. In a bullet core or a shotgun slug you do not need to have it grip the rifling.

Whatever you do do not water drop the bullets if you have both tin and antimony in the mix. Let them air cool.

[WheelgunConvert]

That has been my sabot projectile for several years now in a 1:28 inline cast with pure lead. I’m using an original Lyman mould and it has to be really hot to work with the pure lead. No GC needed for that use

[Tripplebeards]

John, I Found my posts on water testing different alloys.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?362842-More-testing-with-the-Lyman-devistator-and-my-ruger-77-44


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?365538-More-testing-with-my-ruger-77-44-and-the-Lyman-devastator


And trying the 15.4 BH alloy devastator on deer for the first time. It obviously didn’t expand on game like it did in water as you can see in the photos of my boolit diameter exit holes. The deer that dropped where it stood had its ribs shattered and the bone fragments were found everywhere inside. It looked like a grenade went off inside of it. I Took out both lungs and the boolit sailed though it heart. The deer still kicked around for a good half a minute to a minute moving a good 15 yards on the ground before passing. I realize all deer pass differently and some have more of a will to live with an adrenaline rush to there system before the shot was taken. But, Imo ALOT softer alloy would have helped for a quicker dispatch since I do not aim for the head, neck, and shoulders trying to brake down the animal or paralyze it. I take archery heart and lung shots with my rifles. Guess I’ll find out.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?373867-First-deer(s)-with-cast-boolits!-Used-my-devastators

[John McCorkle]

John, I Found my posts on water testing different alloys.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?362842-More-testing-with-the-Lyman-devistator-and-my-ruger-77-44


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?365538-More-testing-with-my-ruger-77-44-and-the-Lyman-devastator


And trying the 15.4 BH alloy devastator on deer for the first time. It obviously didn’t expand on game like it did in water as you can see in the photos of my boolit diameter exit holes. The deer that dropped where it stood had its ribs shattered and the bone fragments were found everywhere inside. It looked like a grenade went off inside of it. I Took out both lungs and the boolit sailed though it heart. The deer still kicked around for a good half a minute to a minute moving a good 15 yards on the ground before passing. I realize all deer pass differently and some have more of a will to live with an adrenaline rush to there system before the shot was taken. But, Imo ALOT softer alloy would have helped for a quicker dispatch since I do not aim for the head, neck, and shoulders trying to brake down the animal or paralyze it. I take archery heart and lung shots with my rifles. Guess I’ll find out.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?373867-First-deer(s)-with-cast-boolits!-Used-my-devastatorsI have alot of reading up and testing to do. Man thanks for the good info here...alot more than I can take in just one evening but I'll chew through it tomorrow and this week....set up a test plan (sort out which factors I want to test, how, and in which order)

I have two boolits I really want to get right ...that mihec hp (135 grain for 300 blk supersonic) and a recently acquired ranchdog 165 for the 06 (300 light mag)

One a hp the other a wfn...heard two camps of thought but alot of guys seem to gravitate towards the wfn.... hopeful to put enough meat on the table in the next few years to say which ones worked best for me

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[Mr_Sheesh]

I've seen a lot of running Coyotes hit solidly, double lung shots with an 87 Grain BTSPHP J-word bullet in .243.

They change direction (that's how you know they were hit solidly) but keep running for some time; They're TOUGH animals.

Deer vary, some bang flop and some are tougher and keep moving.

The boolit kills 'em but they're not flopped - YET.

[Tripplebeards]

I've seen a lot of running Coyotes hit solidly, double lung shots with an 87 Grain BTSPHP J-word bullet in .243.

They change direction (that's how you know they were hit solidly) but keep running for some time; They're TOUGH animals.





For coyotes you need to change bullets and your velocity then...because your definitely using the wrong bullet. I shoot 70 grain nosler ballistic tips out of a 26” barrel at 3650 FPS....a little hot. Close counts! It slams coyotes to the ground even with a bad shot as far as you can see them. I’ve literally almost cut several of them in half with a bullet hitting them broadside just by connecting with a rib on the way in! I have some gruesome photos to prove it but imo They are not appropriate to post on the net. I stopped counting after nine dozen I shot myself with this combo and can tell you I only had one spinner. It was a 30 yard shot that blew a hole through its guts you could put a large Folgers coffee can through. All the other ones bang flopped like the hammer of Thor. My calling partners use the same bullet with the same results. Runners are non existent. I even shot one up the tail pipe at 292 yards on a dead run going away from me. It exited out the top of the middle of the back. Extremely poor shot But it still dropped it. I did had to walk up and finish it. You can clap your hands in some of the holes I’ve put through them. Bullet choice plays a huge roll. I rarely use my 243 for yotes anymore because it’s sooo destructive and switched over to a shotgun. It wasn’t uncommon to see 7 or more coyotes out of 10 with fist size entry and exit holes after an average day of calling using a 243 with 70 nosler ballistic tips. It’s a Horrible bullet choice if your trying to save pelts but if you don’t care and want rid them and want to see a coyote slam to the ground it’s a winner. I shot 8 coyotes with my 5.56 last time out trying to save some pelts. I used a 60 grain vmax out fo POF P415 with a 14.5” barrel. I loaded them slow using 25 grains of benchmark with a velocity of 2850 FPS. All bang flops. Instant death. No signs of an entry hole on any of them and a fifty cent sized exit hole on most. One didn’t exit on a frontal shot. IMO a fast fragmenting bullet equals instant death 99.999% of the time as Ive seen with my own eyes.

I’ve also tried 90 grain ballistic tips in my 243 with the same anchoring result but they are just as destructive as the 70’s if you hit a rib bone on the way in or out.


You know, I can remember one runner with 70 grain ballistic tips...completely my fault. Second time in AZ. I shot at coyote that was about 75 yards farther away than I thought it was. It was a broadside shot and I aimed center mass. The bullet dropped and hit low. It looked like I unzipped it’s jacket. The yote ran with its intestines hanging out and crawled into some sage brush. It’s intestines got caught on a branch and the coyote literally gutted itself. So runners do happen but can be eliminated with a proper shot placement and bullet choice when it comes to yotes.



If you have a runner with a nolser ballistic tip you missed.lol

[white eagle]

I have been hunting deer a long time 50 years or so
and to say I can predict what a deer will
do when shot is still a mystery to me so my hats off to
you fellas that can
from what I have seen deer have a strong desire to flee
when trouble is brewing and when shot they don't always act
the same fashion

[Wayne Smith]

Like you, I don't care about a little "wasted meat" and prefer the animal to be DRT as close as possible. Having lost a couple deer that were hit well I gave up the "double lung shot" many years ago. Yes it is lethal but many times not before the deer traveled a long distance. In rainy forests with many red multicolored leaves on the ground tracking can be impossible. I advocate aiming to put the bullet through the heart regardless of the angle.

Anyways I think you find the 16-1 alloy will be best. You may or may not have to adjust the velocity down a bit to maintain accuracy as I've had good accuracy with the Devastator cast of it up through 1650 fps. Haven't pushed that bullet above that though. I go to the ternary bullet when velocity is pushed at 20000+ fps.

My Dad agreed with you, Larry. Then he shot a doe with his 30-30 and the autopsy proved that he hit the heart and it was in two pieces. That doe jumped an eight foot fence and ran over 50 yards before she knew she was dead! She had 0 ejection fraction through that whole run.

[Tripplebeards]

My Dad agreed with you, Larry. Then he shot a doe with his 30-30 and the autopsy proved that he hit the heart and it was in two pieces. That doe jumped an eight foot fence and ran over 50 yards before she knew she was dead! She had 0 ejection fraction through that whole run.


Out of the group of three deer I shot with seconds apart last year this was the heart of the only one that dropped to the ground after the shot. The other two were double lung shots that ran after the shot. One was confirmed when dressing as the heart was intact and no lungs left, just bloody jelly. The other I couldn’t confirm with an autopsy but it was the exact same shot placement because the local coyotes got to it before I did. Pics are posted of the deer in the above link BTY.

https://i.imgur.com/y39jeSs.jpg


I have had heart shot deer run many times to be fair. I shot one with a seirra 150 grain game king out of my 30-06. I hit a doe perfectly in the in the heart missing both lungs. The bullet stopped on the leg shoulder area on the opposite side , never broke the leg it stopped in and never exited. It was a pinhole going in. No blood and the deer ran a good 60 to 75 yards before dropping. ZERO blood trail. Never have or will use those bullets again accept for plinking. I apologized to my 180 grain Remington core locts and never turned back. Never had a 180 grain core loct stay in an animal after hundreds of deer harvested even when shooting them end to end. It that deer was shot with a core loct instead of a seirra the opposite leg would have been broke and to would have flopped to the ground.

[Larry Gibson]

My Dad agreed with you, Larry. Then he shot a doe with his 30-30 and the autopsy proved that he hit the heart and it was in two pieces. That doe jumped an eight foot fence and ran over 50 yards before she knew she was dead! She had 0 ejection fraction through that whole run.

Never said they were always DRT or drop right there.......said I wanted them as close to DRT as possible". Most often they are down within yards just staggering till they fall. I've had lots of deer travel upwards of 40-50 yards before they drop when heart shot, especially if one of both of the legs isn't severely damaged. Shooting for the heart usually will take out/damage one leg. That means they also leave a lot more sign if they get out of sight making it much easier to track in damp, bushy and oft times wet terrain where I used to hunt. Also if they don't go down very quickly I will shoot them again if I can.....I don't just watch them run off......

No, you can't predict that any game animal will "bang/flop right there when hit. You can lesson the odds they will travel a long ways by using a heart area shot instead of the double lung shot. Lessoning the probable distance they can travel which increases the odds of finding the down animal considerable in some terrain is the point.

With double lung shots I have seen too many deer go 100 - 200+ yards before going down. Seen too many hunters (myself included) searching and searching and searching to no avail trying to find such hit deer.......not my cup of tea......

[Tripplebeards]

I agree with Larry.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Tripplebeards - this was mainly back in the late 60s to mid 70s, when I was seriously varminting; J-Word bullets have changed a bit since then, "perhaps" :) Do note tho that, at 500 yards, you have about what, 1/2 the velocity and 1/3 the energy as at 100 yards, with 70 or 87 gr. bullets? That changes things, possibly.

We were shooting running 'Yotes at longer ranges (In the area we were in, you'd come around a corner and be presented with a long range running shot - As soon as they figured you were there, they'd be "shuffling off to Buffalo" about as fast as they could! Coyotes aren't stupid.) Lots of practice at bailing out of the car quick and doing long range offhand shots, in my Teens I found this great fun and a good challenge.

At 400+ yards with a running shot, you get different behavior on bullet impact than with a called Coyote; They're running with lots of adrenaline, instead of just curious. They didn't get very far after being hit, 70-200 yards or so tops, you just aren't guaranteed instant bang flops - Because the bullet has far less velocity & energy, than at, say, 40 yards distance.

We'd collect them so we knew how long they'd run after being hit, and that these were NOT misses. (If we were going for less holes in the pelts we'd probably have used lighter bullets and called them in, the main thrust of going there, though, was to clear about 85% of the rockchucks off our friends' property so he didn't have to paralytic poison the entire huge property, so these were not our main goal during these trips.) They liked coyotes NOT pestering their newborn colts, though, and we were amenable to helping :)

Feel free to do it your way, of course! My guess is that a close in, called coyote, shot with a 70 grain bullet won't have the same results as hitting them as they run at 500+ yard distances, with the same bullet, at lower energy / velocity, necessarily. That's not the shooters' fault, it's just PHYSICS. Until we can get "hand phasers" or "a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range" that's pretty much how things are going to be.

I do plan to try calling Coyotes soon, should get nice bang-flops with any bullets at short ranges; My knees won't let me collect them now, so until that's changed I'll stay with what works well for me.

[fredj338]

I have two pins for my 44 Dev mold. The std pin is deep & wide, bullet comes in about 250gr. The other is a shorter cup point. The bullet comes in @ 270gr. I cast both to 25-1, run @ 1250fps. Only taken two deer with the 270gr. Both broadside, both exits with good size exit hole. I am thinking the lighter 250gr would be a bit better for deer & broadside shots.

[Tripplebeards]

Tripplebeards - this was mainly back in the late 60s to mid 70s, when I was seriously varminting; J-Word bullets have changed a bit since then, "perhaps" :) Do note tho that, at 500 yards, you have about what, 1/2 the velocity and 1/3 the energy as at 100 yards, with 70 or 87 gr. bullets? That changes things, possibly.

We were shooting running 'Yotes at longer ranges (In the area we were in, you'd come around a corner and be presented with a long range running shot - As soon as they figured you were there, they'd be "shuffling off to Buffalo" about as fast as they could! Coyotes aren't stupid.) Lots of practice at bailing out of the car quick and doing long range offhand shots, in my Teens I found this great fun and a good challenge.

At 400+ yards with a running shot, you get different behavior on bullet impact than with a called Coyote; They're running with lots of adrenaline, instead of just curious. They didn't get very far after being hit, 70-200 yards or so tops, you just aren't guaranteed instant bang flops - Because the bullet has far less velocity & energy, than at, say, 40 yards distance.

We'd collect them so we knew how long they'd run after being hit, and that these were NOT misses. (If we were going for less holes in the pelts we'd probably have used lighter bullets and called them in, the main thrust of going there, though, was to clear about 85% of the rockchucks off our friends' property so he didn't have to paralytic poison the entire huge property, so these were not our main goal during these trips.) They liked coyotes NOT pestering their newborn colts, though, and we were amenable to helping :)

Feel free to do it your way, of course! My guess is that a close in, called coyote, shot with a 70 grain bullet won't have the same results as hitting them as they run at 500+ yard distances, with the same bullet, at lower energy / velocity, necessarily. That's not the shooters' fault, it's just PHYSICS. Until we can get "hand phasers" or "a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range" that's pretty much how things are going to be.

I do plan to try calling Coyotes soon, should get nice bang-flops with any bullets at short ranges; My knees won't let me collect them now, so until that's changed I'll stay with what works well for me.


I’ve had band flops out to 400 yards with 70 gr Nosler ballistic tips and my 243...never shot at one any further to find out. My buddy has dropped several where they stand at 500 to 600 yards with his 22-250 and nosler ballistic tips. Same thing as you use to do...we all drove around so he had a audience to watch him along with a designated spotter to use an electronic range finder to range them. IMO I believe the newer ballistic tips VS your lead jacketed bullets do a way better job with instant death. I’m sure once you get past the 700 yard range it gets iffy. Heck I shot a pronghorn at 1200 yards back in 00’ with a 125 grain nosler ballistic tip loaded at 3950 FPS out of my 300 rum. I hit it broadside in the lungs. It tilted and ran 40 yards in a circle and tipped over dead. The fragile bullet never expanded and poked a bullet sized hole in and out of it.


But your right my average farthest shot on a yote is 250 yards so I’m much closer. The average yote i shoot is 20 yards(that’s why I use a shotgun now with BB shot 99.9% of the time). The closest has been within arms reach. I called in one once that ran into me as I was sitting on a trail.lol My first bobcat I called in came crawling out of the brush five feet from my leg...I waited till it was about 15 to 20 feet in front of me before I shot it. All I saw was a blur in my optic when I pulled the trigger. The Tom stood up and curled it back growling at my whirling woodpecker decoy and I almost missed it. I caught the last 1/4” of belly skin right in back of it’s front shoulder. Never blew it apart since I only hit its heart and poked a bullet sized hole in and out thank god! Shot one the next day I called one in the next morning at the exact same spot and it came within 25 yards before I pulled the trigger. I blew that cat almost in half...that’s the day I switched to a shotgun. I kicked myself last year being I called in two cats that hung up at 200 yards back to back so I’m taking both rifle and shotgun with when I call for now on.

[Tatume]

I agree. But I can tell you I’ve had dozens upon dozens of bang flops using a 30-06 and a 180 grain core locts...with shoulder shots.

The 30-caliber Remington Core-Lokt bullet has been a favorite of mine for 50 years. It is accurate, and performs extremely well on game. It is not considered a "premium" bullet, and that's too bad. It is one of the best game bullets ever made.

[Hanzy4200]

Nice looking bullets! I've yet to venture into HP's.

[Goofy]

Somebody said mushrooms?

Here's your mushroom:
https://i.imgur.com/RENinxM.jpg

Started out like this:
https://i.imgur.com/a2DR8es.jpg

Shoots like this:
https://i.imgur.com/tT1tiIN.jpg

Pure lead can be your buddy. To date, 100% bang-flops. 300 gr, MV ~1600 fps. Retained weight on the bullet above is ballpark 294 gr. Broke both forelegs, 5 ribs and cut the deer's heart in half.

[Burnt Fingers]

Mushrooms are just a natural reaction to humidity around the plant itself. I wouldn't worry much about it.

***?


#1. This post is two years old.

#2. We're not talking about fungi here.

[dondiego]

***?


#1. This post is two years old.

#2. We're not talking about fungi here.

..........but I'll bet that he is a fun guy.

[444ttd]

..........but I'll bet that he is a fun guy.


[smilie=l:[smilie=l:[smilie=l:

[white eagle]

these prey animal were designed to flee
thats their main objective
unless a cns is hit a bit of tracking is in order