Hornady Progressive vs. Dilon

[DanWalker]

Which would you get, and why?
I'm currently loading on a LEE classic turret, but the ever increasing demands of my job are keeping me away from home for more and more periods of time, with less and less time at home.
I'm looking for a good progressive press to speed up the reloading process.
I currently load the following calibers:
.38
.380acp
.45acp
.45LC
.223
7mm08
30/30
45/70

[Lloyd Smale]

this is one of those things that causes some heated posts. Bottom line is there both good machines. Me id get a dillon but only because that is what im used to running.

[missionary5155]

I have had a Dillon since 1988... Loaded thousands of pistol..rifle.. My powder measure broke about 10 years ago . I called Dillion to get Just the slide where the pin was and they sent me a NEW powder maesure. When I visited their factory 5 years ago they gave me a "Repair" kit in case I ever needed to fix anything to save me (well, and them) postage. They still honor their "No Quetions Asked Garentee".
Hornady probably makes an good machine... Anybody have one ???

[wiljen]

The Hornady LNL AP is a Mercedes level reloader at a Mercedes level price, the dillon is in the same league if you are comparing the 550 with all of its possible adornments. The one thing I really like about the Hornady over the Dillon is not having to buy a powder measure for every toolhead in order to maintain the quick swap and the ability to leave all your dies set. Since Hornady lets you trade a die at a time, you can leave the powder measure in place and just change bushings. If you change cartridges alot, the hornady is cheaper in the long run as die collars are about the same per set as toolheads but you dont need a new powder measure on each. The one thing I would warn about the hornady is if you have a large collection of Lee Factory crimp dies, they tend to interfere with the ejection wire and have to be machined for clearance - that might tempt me to buy the Dillon if I had a sizable investment in dies already.

[missionary5155]

With the Dillion It may take me a whole 1 minute to remove the powder measure and attach it to the shell plate... I have 2 powder measures... one with the pistol capacity measure attached and the other with the rifle capacity measure attached. May take 3 minutes to get it adjusted. No need to have numerous powder bars.
It would be interesting to run a real life time investigation between two experienced opperators. I have a 550B and load for many calibers.

[Shiloh]

I only have one progressive and it's the Dillon 550B. It started out as a 550 and Dillon helped me upgrade it. That was years ago. Since then there have been tens of thousands of trouble free hand gun rounds loaded with it as well as .223. The rest of the rifle ammo is loaded on an old RCBS press. My bias runs to Dillon. Trouble free operation speaks volumes.

Dillon has always been there for me. The no B.S. guarantee should be and industry standard.
After breaking parts in a move and explaining that it was my fault, and I purchased it second hand, replacement parts were sent at NO CHARGE. Customer service can't be beat.

Changing from small primers to large takes a few minutes. Changing a powder measure and adjusting it also takes a few minutes. Provided it is cleaned from primer residue, all your spare primer pick-up tubes are full, your station is organized, 500 or more trouble free perfect rounds in an hour is easily obtainable. 500 rounds per session is something I don't normally do. I spread it out over a number of hours while doing other things.

Shiloh

[Heavy lead]

FWIW,
It's like asking whether you like blondes, or redheads better. I have used 3 different Dillions, but never owned one, so I'm familiar with them. I bought the Hornady LNL, and probably will by another this fall yet. The trump card for me was the free 1000 bullets. I have mine set up for 45 acp and love it. I crank the ammo out on it like nothing and had a very quick learning curve to it. I however would gladley use and buy the Dillion too.
Both great machines IMO.

[Russel Nash]

My recommendation is to buy the Dillon.

At the IDPA Nationals, there is a survey that all of the shooters fill out. Usually there are about 300 shooters at that match. In that survey, it asks if they reload, and if they reload which press do they use.

80 to 90 percent of them respond back with a Dillon.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you can now outfit a 550 with a casefeeder.

And if the KISS bullet feeder guys are still in business (??) you can buy a bullet feeder for your Dillon 650 or 1050.

And supposedly Ponz-Warrens (spelling???) are making an automation kit to go on one of the Dillons.

If you do get a Dillon, order it through Brian Enos here:

http://brianenos.com/store/home.html

He has these "as it should be" deals when he sells the Dillon presses.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

My recommendation is to buy the Dillon. I owned the Dillon 550, didn't like it, sold it and bought the Hornady. The Hornady smoked it. My buddy owns a 650 and we each load with the other's machine regularly. He's the one that complains, due to the much higher prices he spends for "accessories."

At the IDPA Nationals, there is a survey that all of the shooters fill out. Usually there are about 300 shooters at that match. In that survey, it asks if they reload, and if they reload which press do they use.

80 to 90 percent of them respond back with a Dillon.

That's less true than it was 5 years ago and wouldn't be true at all if the Hornady LnL had been around back when Dillon was building up their customer base. Ten years ago, the Dillons made up probably 98%, but have been losing ground to the Hornady LnL.


Another thing to keep in mind is that you can now outfit a 550 with a casefeeder.

Which, according to Brian Enos, only gains you a measly 25% improvement in production over the stock unit, while the Hornady with a casefeeder is as fast as the Dillon 650 with a casefeeder.

And if the KISS bullet feeder guys are still in business (??) you can buy a bullet feeder for your Dillon 650 or 1050.

They are and you can buy a KISS bullet feeder for the Hornady LnL as well. Production figures match the 650.

And supposedly Ponz-Warrens (spelling???) are making an automation kit to go on one of the Dillons.

If they make one for the Dillons, they'll make one for the Hornady.

If you do get a Dillon, order it through Brian Enos here:

http://brianenos.com/store/home.html

He has these "as it should be" deals when he sells the Dillon presses.

And you could buy the base Hornady LnL, a much faster press, for the price of the 550. BTW, the base model press is more than fast enough for all but the most active competitive shooters. Of course, that applies to any progressive. One cannot buy enough components to keep them supplied without spending a lot of money



All that said and done, both brands are great presses. The Hornady LnL just enjoys a price and engineering advantage due to the fact it's a more modern design by about ten to twenty years, depending on how you calculate it.

Regards,

Dave

[DLCTEX]

A friend of mine Bought the Hornady with partial credit going to the free 1000 bullts offer. He figured that made the Hornady almost free. DALE

[Joni Lynn]

I don't have a LnL, I have the older Projector and it's never worked right. Before that I had a 550 which I didn't keep. I recently got the new RCBS progressive, it's a nice machine.
If I were buying something else it would be a 650.

[Russel Nash]

well, Dave, maybe in 10 years if IDPA is still around and can still hold a National's match, we'll see if the Hornady has chipped away at any more of that Dillon market share.

I initially said 80 or 90% because I didn't know for sure.

I know it's high.

I suppose I could find the last quarter 2007 issue of the Tactical Journal and scan in the survey results and post the pic of it here.

I also suppose I could call IDPA HQ and bug them about survey results from like 5 years ago.

About those 1,000 bullets Hornady is giving away...

which kind are we talking about here?

Getting back to the presses, here is a thread on the Brian Enos forums:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=58616&st=0

[Firebird]

I still like my RCBS Pro 2000 better than either. [smilie=s:

[dromia]

Just because the Dillon is fashionable in certain circles doesn't mean that the L-n-L isn't as good or better.

Dillon certainly seems to attract a certain type of fanatical user that doesn't like to have their chosen brand challenged.

However in the real world there are many good products, most of which are no bettter or worse than each other, they are just diffrerent.

My progressives are an RCBS Ammomaster and a Hornady L-n-L. I tried to buy Dillon once but I found the arrogance and rudeness of Dillons sales staff enough to decide never to put money there way.

I have used Dillons and they are fine machines and do as advertised. The Hornady L-N-L is also a fine machine that does as advertised. The main difference between the Hornady L-n-L and the Dillon 650, which are the comparable machines is price. The Hornady is a good bit cheaper so really its a no brainer why pay extra just for a blue paint job.

I'm sure that the Dillon warranty is very good we keep getting told how good it is. Hornady's warranty I cannot comment on as I've never needed to use it, I've only had my L-n-L three years and only loaded 30,000 rnds on it. However when I have phoned Hornady they have always been prompt and helpful which is more than I can say for the Dillon staff I've dealt with.

Dillon certainly has excellent competition with the L-n-L which is good for us as customers. Hornady certainly cannot compete on hype and PR but they have at least equaled on quality of product and won hands down on price,value for money.

BTW when I was looking for a second progressive I would have bought another RCBS Ammomaster progressive which is another fine press that I've had now for nearly 14 years with well over 100,000 rnds through it and its never missed a beat, shame it was discontinued.

Dillon is certainly not the only game in town, but it is the loudest.

At the end of the day its and individuals choice but, never let the Dillon proaganda blind you to the excellent alternatives before you make your choice.

[unclebill]

wow
you really hate dillons huh?:p

[Bret4207]

FWIW- A few years back Mr. Dillion screwed a whole lot of wholesalers over when he started selling direct. That was a big deal back then, seems time has healed the wounds. Just a bit of history I thought I'd dredge up. I have niether press, but am leaning towrds the Hornady due to the bullet offer and non-specialized items needed.

[dromia]

wow
you really hate dillons huh?:p


No I don't actually, if I was offered one for free I'd happily pay shipping on it, as I said they are good enough presses. What I wouldn't want to do is give Dillon my hard earned £s.

What I do find offensive is the Dillon arrogance as a company from my direct experience and the insulting dogma of some Dillon owners who refuse to accept that the Dillon is a good machine amongst others. Refusing to accept that many other people use other manufactureres preses with as much success as they do, including Lee. Not my choice but I know people that swear by Lee's and rattle out fine ammunition on them

The "don't think about it buy Dillon" attitude from some Dillon owners is condesecending and rude and that is something I don't like.

Being in the UK the free bullet offer wasn't available to me when I bought my L-n-L but even without that it was still a lot cheaper than the comparable specification Dillon, the 650.

[dromia]

BTW who is Brian Enos?

[mike in co]

BTW who is Brian Enos?


well it would put a little damper on your opion of all things gun if you do not know one of the top two pistol shooters in the world.......ok maybe top three if you count that wheel gun guy....

oppsssss.

each to thier own , we are all entitled to opinions......

dillon owners are like that because the machines work, are woth the money and are backed by some of the best support and warrantee in the world.

maybe you should take your own advice and keep an open mind about us dilon owners and our opinions.

i own lee, lyman and dillon presses.....they all work they all have limitations. but i'm not using the lee's not the lyman to do the 6000 plus 223's i just started.

[Bret4207]

Mike, IMO celebrity endorsements are worth only so much. Paul Harvey, who I respect greatly, hawks Eden Pure heaters- all they are is a $350.00 fan and light bulb set up. I kind of doubt Glenn Beck is really all that excited about the wiper blades and engine restorer he endorses and I really doubt Rush has any intention of driving the Volt is it ever gets produced. I'm sure Enos got a buncha bucks and if Hornady offered him or anyone else enough money they'd endorse them too.

Dillon is great and it appears Hornady is too. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[dromia]

well it would put a little damper on your opion of all things gun if you do not know one of the top two pistol shooters in the world.......ok maybe top three if you count that wheel gun guy....

oppsssss.

each to thier own , we are all entitled to opinions......

dillon owners are like that because the machines work, are woth the money and are backed by some of the best support and warrantee in the world.

maybe you should take your own advice and keep an open mind about us dilon owners and our opinions.

i own lee, lyman and dillon presses.....they all work they all have limitations. but i'm not using the lee's not the lyman to do the 6000 plus 223's i just started.


I rest my case. :-D

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

well it would put a little damper on your opion of all things gun if you do not know one of the top two pistol shooters in the world.......ok maybe top three if you count that wheel gun guy....

Actually, if you look at the entire population of reload press owners, the vast majority are Lee owners. Basing a purchase decision on an emotional perspective like "this or that celebrity uses this, so it must be good" is generally a bad idea. Of course, Chevy and Ford have sold a lot of "win on sunday, sell on Monday" cars over the years. Didn't mean the quality was there though or they were the best value.

oppsssss.

each to thier own , we are all entitled to opinions......

dillon owners are like that because the machines work, are woth the money and are backed by some of the best support and warrantee in the world.

The Hornady LnL works better, has less runout, is worth more money than it sells for and the support and warranty in my personal opinion is better than Dillons. I did recently use it, when I called about buying a spring. They sent me two for free and two new primer seaters I didn't need, because "You've had the press for several years and the springs on the primer seaters may be getting worn as well, you might as well have a couple spares."

Dillon can match that kinda warranty service, but they can't beat it. Frankly, when I had my 550, they didn't match it and never could get it working right. (Apparently, mine had a defect, as the guy I sold it too eventually ended up getting a new press from Dillon.) But they never resolved the issue with me.

maybe you should take your own advice and keep an open mind about us dilon owners and our opinions.

Having been a Dillon owner and watched on the forums for years and having owned the Hornady now for ten years and having loaded on my buddy's Dillon 650 for the same period of time, I feel comfortable in saying that while Dillons as good presses, they are NOT what many owners portray them to be.

i own lee, lyman and dillon presses.....they all work they all have limitations. but i'm not using the lee's not the lyman to do the 6000 plus 223's i just started.

Just loaded up 3K myself and compared runout to my buddy's 650. Mine were a little better. We both used the same brand of dies (Lee).



Having a large customer base because you were the best out there for a while (and they were) is nice, but frankly, Dillon has been resting on their laurels for quite a long time now. Kinda like General Motors, Chrysler and Ford did. There are other presses made by other companies that have caught up and passed them in design and in value.

BTW, I've owned Dillon, RCBS, Lyman, own Lee and Hornady and am willing to buy any brand out there, as long as it offers genuine value and the design works well.

The Hornady LnL just fit the bill when I bought it and has been doing a great job for me for many years now (over 7, less than 10).

Here's a link to a fella that compared all three:

http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

Regards,

Dave

[69daytona]

Ive had both and still have my Dillion, ease of use and adjustments and easy to change calibers and speed are why I keep my Dillion and I wont give it up. Ive loaded everything from 32 S&W- 30-06 and 45-70 and it never fails. I had good luck with the LEE but had a lot of primer jams in thier old 1000 series. either one would be good but with the LEE I would hand prime all my cases.

[Shiloh]

No I don't actually, if I was offered one for free I'd happily pay shipping on it, as I said they are good enough presses. What I wouldn't want to do is give Dillon my hard earned £s.

What I do find offensive is the Dillon arrogance as a company from my direct experience and the insulting dogma of some Dillon owners who refuse to accept that the Dillon is a good machine amongst others. Refusing to accept that many other people use other manufactureres preses with as much success as they do, including Lee. Not my choice but I know people that swear by Lee's and rattle out fine ammunition on them

The "don't think about it buy Dillon" attitude from some Dillon owners is condesecending and rude and that is something I don't like.

Being in the UK the free bullet offer wasn't available to me when I bought my L-n-L but even without that it was still a lot cheaper than the comparable specification Dillon, the 650.

In the years that I have used Dillon machine as well as their customer service and part department, I have yet to experience anything that could even remotely be construed as rude or arrogant. So I am completely unable to relate to this.

When I purchased my Dillon used in the early 90's, it was the first progressive press commercially available at an affordable price. And yes they did heavy marketing. My Dillon works as well now as the day I purchased it, therefore the need to look at different manufacturers product does not exist. As stated, there are other quality presses available. When they have the achieved the same track record and decades of trouble-free longevity they will have passed the test.

My bias runs toward Dillon, the only progressive I've had or needed. I have openly and proudly stated this on this and other forums. Quality is it's own endorsement. If it isn't broke there is no need to fix it or replace it. There are a LOT of older Dillon Machines out there working just fine and that's where the fierce loyalty comes from, decades of trouble free operation creating millions of rounds.

Shiloh :castmine:

[be603]

The plural of anecdote is not data.

I visit here often but only post occasionally. I appreciate the mature, neighborly tone here and feel right at home.

Then the topic turns to blue vs red ... /heh

...and I wonder if we ever left Jr High...

Just sayin'...

Fanboy-ism is a curious thing. I reckon it's in most of us to one degree or another, on one issue or another.

[Russel Nash]

I might be wrong on this, but I have heard that G. David Tubb reloads on a Dillon too.

Here's his website:

http://www.davidtubb.com/t2k.html

The Arizona state junior rifle team is using two Dillons (a 550 and a 650) to reload all the ammo the team needs for their practice and AR matches.

Yeah, I guess you could go ahead and call me a "fanboy" then.

;-)

But, if you go back and re-read my posts, you'll notice that I did NOT "diss" the other press manufacturers.

Why?

Because I have not used them for starters, with the exception of the RCBS single stage Rock Chucker press, that I "cut my teeth" on.

If I ever did hear a disparaging word about another press, (I have heard plenty) I just thanked my lucky stars that I bought a Dillon.

Technically, what I had heard would be considered hearsay, so if this were a court of law, wouldn't be admissable.

Even then, it would just be anecdotal, anyways.

So what's up next for discussion, fellas?

1911's vs. Glocks?

.45 ACP vs. 9mm?

Semi's vs. revolvers?

AK vs. AR?

Double taps vs. controlled pairs?

Tastes great vs. Less filling?

Boxers vs. briefs?


:kidding:

:D

[be603]

Don't forget "Lee FCD or not." ;-)

[shotman]

You have several rifle cal and several pistol listed The dillon 650 is a good unit [I have one] BUT is VERY expensive to change cal.{unless you are an afro engineer guy like me} Hornady I dont know about first hand but they seem to be more cost friendly to switch. Look at the cal change cost FIRST . I didnt and found that if i had not found a way around that on Dillon I would have had $2500 in cal changes. As it is i only have $250 in around 20 cal. rick

[DanWalker]

Guys,
I sincerely apologize. I never meant for this to turn into something ugly.
I come to this site(with almost compulsive frequency) to partake in the free exchange of ideas and experiences.
I honestly was just asking for opinions.
Now that you've freely given them, I thank you.
Wife is going to the gun shop next week to put a hornady LNL progressive on layaway.
If it isn't any good, you can be damned sure I'll be on here letting you all know about it.
Thanks again for all your help.

[unclebill]

danwalker,
im sure it's a great press.
i have never used one but to tell the truth i have never seen a modern press make crappy ammo.
ive got a
LEE
LYMAN
DILLON





p.s.
if anyone wants to tell me any of them stink.
save your breath because you wont convince me otherwise.
:D

[Heavy lead]

Dan Walker,
Don't apoligize, and FWIW, I think you made the right call, but they are all good. I for one don't care who uses what, I liked Dale Earnhardt, but wouldn't have a Chevy in the garage. I am not a competitive shooter and the thing I like about the LNL is the relatively inexpensive and simple changeover, I am not a Dillon basher, I have used a friends machine and they are very nice (550 and 650), but I really like my LNL, I think you will too.
BTW, I also like my Lee Turret's too for and use them both a lot. For rifle cartridges I'm old school, they all get loaded on single stage presses and fully weight powder charges with the RCBS loadmaster scale.

[Bret4207]

It's the indian, not the arrow! I have a friend back home who could screw up ANYTHING. Wouldn't matter if you gave him a Dillon, Hornady, RCBS, Star or a Rwvjklytmszski Modle QRS7856 Zambolini Automatic Reloader from Lower East Bungholestan- he'd barf it up. BEauty is in the eye of the beholder and celebrity endorsements aside I imagine all can be made to work and give good service.

[jmorris]

I have a LNL and a bunch of Dillon’s, this one is my favorite http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/?action=view&current=1050.flv

The LNL is certainly capable of making good ammo at a reasonable rate. My LNL has been more finicky than most of my Dillon’s but also cost less.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I must be getting too old. I can`t really fathom tthe need to change dies at the speed of light! I have an original Pro 7 upgraded to Pro jector Hornady press. When I got it back from Hornady for a timing problem that they fixed for free and upgraded it to Pro jector at no cost. They swaped all of my shell plates (6) and sent all back postage paid. The first upgrade I made to it was to remove the priming assembly and the case kicker assembly, didn`t like or trust either one. So I hand set dies, prime off press (Lee hand prime tool) drop powder manualy and remove loaded rounds by hand. I still load pistol rounds in the thousands quite nicely thank you the way I do. I`ve only used a friends Dillion once to try it and load 2oo rounds, didn`t want to use it again. Kind of makes you wonder how Dillion can afford all those airplanes and all those machine guns if he makes such a reasonable priced press?:Fire:

[standles]

Simple and to the point.

I have owned both and loaded on them side by side.

I GAVE AWAY the Hornandy and now own 3 Dillons.


Steven

[briankk]

I have had a Dillon since 1988... Loaded thousands of pistol..rifle.. My powder measure broke about 10 years ago . I called Dillion to get Just the slide where the pin was and they sent me a NEW powder maesure. When I visited their factory 5 years ago they gave me a "Repair" kit in case I ever needed to fix anything to save me (well, and them) postage. They still honor their "No Quetions Asked Garentee".
Hornady probably makes an good machine... Anybody have one ???

I too have had a 550B since 1988. Got it for re-loading for Military High Power, used to runn off .30-'06 in batches of 500..

Last year, my powder measure broke just as you describe, Dillon gave me a new one too. Indeed their word is their bond.

I have zero experience with the Hornaday press, I'd rather keep Timo Glock in F1 than Ron Hornady in NASCAR;-)

I have used the Lee universal, and FWIW, for loading fewer than, say, 50 rounds, I prefer the Lee which I can set up and tear down a lot faster than I can get the Dillon going. Of course, if your Dillon is permantly set up, thats another matter..

[Lloyd Smale]

Its just as easy on the dillon. Just buy a few charge bars and leave them set for the loads you use most and you can swap them out in less then a minute. The Hornady LNL AP is a Mercedes level reloader at a Mercedes level price, the dillon is in the same league if you are comparing the 550 with all of its possible adornments. The one thing I really like about the Hornady over the Dillon is not having to buy a powder measure for every toolhead in order to maintain the quick swap and the ability to leave all your dies set. Since Hornady lets you trade a die at a time, you can leave the powder measure in place and just change bushings. If you change cartridges alot, the hornady is cheaper in the long run as die collars are about the same per set as toolheads but you dont need a new powder measure on each. The one thing I would warn about the hornady is if you have a large collection of Lee Factory crimp dies, they tend to interfere with the ejection wire and have to be machined for clearance - that might tempt me to buy the Dillon if I had a sizable investment in dies already.

[Lloyd Smale]

its to bad lee doesnt take the time to reengineer there progressives. The biggest flaw in both of them is the primer feed. It sure would be cool to buy a progressive that actually worked for 200 bucks or less new. It wouldnt take much especially with the pro master to make it into a good working design. I like my dillons but even they have there flaws and could stand to be reengineered. The 550 and square deals have been around for decades and have never changed. At least never in a major way. They could use work in the primer dept too as could the 650. The only true trouble free dillon is the 1050. there built like tanks and the primer feed actually works. Problem with them is there more complicated and expensive to swap calibers on. Dillon has a great customer service dept but i would think that if they reengineered a few systems on there presses they wouldnt have to be giving away so many parts!! Anyone that tells you that a dillon doesnt break is either a lier or doesnt reload much. I have 5 square deals and a 550 and one of them is down because im robbing parts off of it for another or down because i dont have parts about all the time. The 550 does a little better but then thats probably because i dont use it near as much. Dont get me wrong i love the square deals. Theres nothing short of a 1050 that is faster when you get in a rhythm and there running properly. Some of my presses have well over a million rounds but then about every part on the including the frames on two of them have been replaced at one time or the other through the years. What would i like to see from dillon? A sqare deal made from steel with bearings instead of bushings and a good primer feed system. Eliminate the 650 and make the 550 a true progressive with a way to switch it to a manual when needed. It would make it alot cheaper to swap calibers. Then design a bullet feed that WORKED for the newly designed 550 and the 1050. Then make a case feeder for the newly beefed up square deal. A square deal with a case feeder would outload a 1050. If dillon would make these upgrades they would dominate the market for another 20 years.

[xpshooter]

I have a Dillon 550 and I like it very much.

I have not used a Hornandy L-N-L so I won't bash it.

I would like to point out that the 550 is cheaper to set up for a new caliber compaired to the 650.
So if you are going to set up for a bunch of different rounds you should take a look at the cost of the caliber conversion price.

[vonfatman]

I'm very happy with my 650. I can't think of a thing I'd have done differently. 50k pulls later and it's as good as new.

Bob