Unimpressed with my cap and ball revolver skills

[Stopsign32v]

Well I loaded 15gr of ffg in the chambers, a cereal box over powder wad, inconsistent amounts of grits, a lube wad, and finally my shiny balls. As you can see the seating consistency is pathetic. Not sure how to measure and know the right amount of filler (grits).

Oh and name that revolver

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48360268872_5c550d14eb_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2gFr26b)

[Winger Ed.]

Practice, and concentrate on what you're doing.

It's like riding a dirt bike or flying a airplane-- the more ya do it, the better you'll get.

[Beagle333]

I agree. Just keep practicing. You'll develop your technique. Is that a G&G?

[fatelk]

Personally I never use any kind of filler, just a lubed felt wad. Works fine for me.

Many years ago I bought a roll of inexpensive wool felt. I picked up a set of cheap punches at Harbor Freight, and punched out hundreds of .44 and .36 felt wads. I found a recipe online for some lube made of bee's wax and a couple other things (I forget), melted it down and soaked it into the wads. I've been using them ever since.

All I use is powder, felt wad, and lead ball: no filler or grease at all. I've had a couple people tell me I'm doing it all wrong, that I have to use filler and sticky, nasty grease. One day I had a long talk with an old-timer at a gun show, who had been collecting, shooting, and competing with cap and ball revolvers for longer than I've been alive. He told me that the way I was doing it was just fine, perfectly acceptable.

[FerricOxide]

I never use filler. Full load of powder and a lubed conical or a round ball over a felt wad.

[RED BEAR]

If it works for you who cares what anyone says. I actually might try your way most of my bp revolvers reside in back of the safe. I hate dealing with the grease.

[BlackPowderLove]

I have just been using powder with a ball overtop. If shooting a lot etc., I may rub in a beewax and beargrease lube over top. Lately I have been rolling paper cartridges and love that. Eventually, I want to get a mold for some Dow and Johnston boolits and roll them.
245684

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I've never used filler or wads. Just lots of grease (or crisco) over the top of the balls.

[Stopsign32v]

I have just been using powder with a ball overtop. If shooting a lot etc., I may rub in a beewax and beargrease lube over top. Lately I have been rolling paper cartridges and love that. Eventually, I want to get a mold for some Dow and Johnston boolits and roll them.
245684

This is my next plan, paper cartridges. My wife watched me load a cap and ball (I'm new to them) and she said "You're going to do THAT at the range? Takes a long time"

I had to explain to her that to me the process of it all is almost as fun as shooting.

[gwpercle]

You don't need grits for cap and ball shooting , save them for breakfast.
Omit the cereal box wads too ...unnecessary . Instead of a lube wad under the ball use Crisco , or fancy lube of your choice, on top of the ball .
Load enough black powder so that when a ball is fully seated it is 1/8th inch below the chamber mouth, fill the chamber mouth with lube .
You are trying to put too much "stuff" below the ball...none of which is necessary .
1.) A measure of powder
2.) The Ball
3.) lube ( Crisco or whatever)
4) cap and shoot

Brass framed reproduction 1851 Navy Colt from what I can see...probably Italian ??

Gary

[Stopsign32v]

From everything I've read the brass framed revolvers can take around 15gr black and the steel can take 20gr.

[fatelk]

That seems very conservative to me, for a .44 cal. I’ve always considered 20gr to be a light enough load for brass frame guns, and 30 to be perfectly fine for a steel frame gun. I’m far from being any kind of expert though.

[Tom W.]

Don't use KY jelly as a lube. I tried that once a looooong time ago. It's too thin....one shot and all of it blows out of the chambers.

If they are still in business Blue & Gray products makes spit ball and spit patch that works just fine.

[Stopsign32v]

That seems very conservative to me, for a .44 cal. I’ve always considered 20gr to be a light enough load for brass frame guns, and 30 to be perfectly fine for a steel frame gun. I’m far from being any kind of expert though.

Well this isn't a .44 cal...So there's that. :p:-D

[Stopsign32v]

Is that a G&G?

And YES Beagle, you got it.

[Green Frog]

For the literally thousands of rounds fired at the North-South Skirmishes, wads of cardboard and or felt are avoided. The general formula goes something like “start with a moderate charge of black powder (I go with 18 grain my Rem 44) then almost fill the chamber with Cream of Wheat, leaving just enough room to start the bullet. Set a bullet in place and press down flush or just below, then cap with Crisco or slightly stiffer lube, add caps, fire, repeat.”

I find it better to use a separate seating tool rather than trying to use the seating lever on the gun, but that’s not required. Pre-measuring the powder and C of W is a good idea, and lately I’ve shot in warm enough conditions I find that pure Crisco is way too thin... I need to cap the charge with a stiffer lube containing beeswax.

The balls you use should be a tight fit in the chamber... some people actually like to cut a thin ring of lead as they seat the ball. Also, the lead should be dead soft to catch the rifling in the barrel.

Froggie

[Thumbcocker]

I prefer to use a grease was made of beeswax, tallow, and paraffin (gatfalo? lube) under the ball. You can also load the cookies in paper cartridges under the ball. Grease on top of the ball is blown off in a shot or two.

[Stopsign32v]

I do not plan to wipe grease over each ball. Way too messy and I'd be willing to bet it isn't fun after a couple cylinders of black powder is shot in the summer heat.

[mdi]

I haven't done any black powder revolver shooting in many years, but I remember how I did it. Since the loads didn't stay in the gun for more than a few minutes, I just dumped powder, added a ball, a snug fit against the powder, and smeared grease around the cylinder mouth. I used store bought swaged balls, appropriate black powder, and white grease (probably lithium grease). Never any problems and as long as the components and charges were the same, they all loaded the same.

[fatelk]

Well this isn't a .44 cal...So there's that. :p:-D

That's what I get for assuming. Sorry.

As to lube wad vs. grease/crisco, I've seen this discussion before. I'm really an amateur when it comes to black powder, but my understanding is that purists and traditionalists really don't like felt lube wads, and stick with what worked best back in the day. I can respect that.

For me though, I just don't like the sticky, greasy, crisco. The felt wads are so much easier and cleaner. As an occasional, recreational black powder shooter, the lube wads work well for me so they are what I use. I always felt a little bad about it until I talked to the black powder guy at the gun show. If I was at a range or gathering like the "North-South Skirmishes", I would certainly follow their rules, but otherwise I'll just continue to do what works best for me.

[Stopsign32v]

but my understanding is that purists and traditionalists really don't like felt lube wads, and stick with what worked best back in the day. I can respect that.


I haven't seen a historical photo with grease over the chambers. I have however seen photos with exposed balls or bullets, such as the George Maddox photo.

[Conditor22]

I make my own wads
http://www.durofelt.com/image_26.html
Gatafeo's LUBE 2 parts paraffin, 2 parts lard/lanolin/crisco 1 part beeswax) melt in double boiler pour-over felt wipe/drain off excess
HF DRILL MASTER Hollow Punch Set 6 Pc https://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece-hollow-punch-set-67030.html
I use a Dremel tool to sharpen/enlarge the inside of the punches to fit the bores
store in an airtight container zipper bag

I load the powder then cap with a lubed wad, then seat the ball. cereal is for breakfast :)

[fatelk]

Conditor, that's exactly how I do it, even the lube recipe I think. It's been many years, but I think I got my felt from the same place too.

[mdi]

Regarding grease in the chambers over the balls, it helps prevent a "chain fire" and keeps the BP fouling soft and easier to remove. It did it's job for me quite well...
https://www.wikihow.com/Load-a-Black-Powder-Revolver Go to step 8
https://www.wideopenspaces.com/load-black-powder-revolver-video/ This guy uses Crisco

There are several "how to load a black powder revolver" youtube videos and many apply something to the cylinders on top of the bullet, mostly Crisco...

[Outpost75]

Elmer Keith's book Sixguns has a great chapter on management of the cap & ball sixgun.

I learned as a kid shooting an original 1851 Navy Colt. We cut wads using a 3/8" Osbourne punch cutting them from an old felt hat which we had greased with lard. The original flask measured 16 grains of 3Fg and with two thicknesses of greased felt hat wad the powder charge was compressed and you could feel some resistance at the end of the rammer stroke. We cast both round balls and conicals from the original mold, but the round balls were more accurate and had better killing power on barnyard rats, pigeons, etc.

Cylinders in the Italian repro brass framed guns are usually bottle-necked in the chambers so as to limit the amount of powder they will hold. In a .36 cal. brass frame if your cylinder will not hold the full 16 grains, do not overly compress the powder trying to cram more in, because the heavier load will loosen up the brass-framed gun in a few hundred rounds. For a mild target load in a .36 with round ball 12 grains is enough, as long as your wad and grease cookie compresses the tiny powder charge and you can feel slight resistance at the end of the rammer stroke. If you feel no compression, accuracy will be poor.

[Bigslug]

I haven't seen a historical photo with grease over the chambers. I have however seen photos with exposed balls or bullets, such as the George Maddox photo.

Just getting started on this C&B thing (looking for a cylinder on a gun that came with a cartridge conversion unit only), but this is pretty much exactly my question. I'm pretty sure the guys who were betting their lives on these guns and dragging them through the weeds were NOT covering the front of their cylinders with a wad of debris-collecting pig fat. An underwad makes sense as chain fire insurance and as a gas check. Only other sensible approach I can come up with would be to drop the ball diameter so that it can be wrapped in a patch flintlock rifle style - though I don't know if forcing cone transitions create a problem with that concept. :?:

[fatelk]

I was told that you need something to seal the chamber and prevent chain-fire, whether that's grease over the ball, or a lubed wad under it. The problem with the lubed wad under the ball is that the greasy lube would eventually contaminate the powder (so I was told). Since I typically shoot within minutes of loading, that's not a worry for me. Apparently grease over the ball is pretty foolproof, and more traditional. To each their own.

Now you all have me wanting to take my cap-and-ball revolvers out and shoot them! I have four of them, but they don't get out of the safe very often since they're so slow to load and slow to clean. I was shooting one (an 1858 Remington) a while back with a friend, and he remarked that he thought an advantage to shooting one would be cost, cheaper to shoot. I said no, not really. I can shoot most any of my centerfire handguns cheaper, mostly because of the volume of gunpowder. A cap-and-ball revolver burns 15 to 30 grains per shot, whereas most of my other handguns use 4 to 8 grains (except magnums).

He also had this idea that they were more powerful than they really are. After all, it's a .44 caliber revolver that burns that much powder?! He was disappointed when I told him it's really only about as powerful as a modern .38 Special.

[country gent]

A loading stand can be made to hold the revolver upright (Muzzle up) and supported when loading. This makes it easier to load. Its a simple T shaped stand base has a block to rest base of grip frame against and a vee at the top. With the pistol rested in this simple stand. Powder is dumped, a wad seated if used, and bullets rammed down. Caps are seated when this is done. The stand allows both hands to be used. I don't have one anymore, I let it go with my last cap and ball revolver. Made from some nice hardwood they look good and make a very nice addition. I lined the vee, base and block with felt. It was made from walnut and oil finished.

[Walks]

Only 4 ?
I've got 7 or 8, and I haven't shot any of them in 15yrs. But I always used felt wads. Never used a filler.
Shot My 1860's for My 1st 2yrs of Cowboy Shooting. Modified Hammers so the Caps don't fall back into the action.
Grease on the 1st Cylinder only, then 20-50 shots a day. Dry-Lubed Wads made all the difference. I used 24grs by Volume of 3F, Wad, Ball. Filed down a 30gr spout until it gave me the combination of Powder, Wad and Ball, to just past the level of the Cylinder.

Worked great for Me. And I started my "Casting Life" by casting RB for My Dad's Original .36 Navy, 8yrs old.

[Thumbcocker]

I run .457 pure lead balls in my Old Army and Uberti 1858. I think a larger ball helps with the sealing of the chambers.

[Gtek]

Knowing the actual cylinder bore size is a really good first step. A VERY light chamfer installed on cylinder bore entry will help in a couple of ways if mod is desired. It makes for a little easier loading with same and should create a reduction or elimination of shear ring, also potential of going to slightly larger ball increasing sealing area with little to no loading force change.

[John Van Gelder]

Shooting "cap and ball" revolvers is a "discipline" unto itself. There is a learning curve,but once mastered there are some significant rewards. The front end loaders can be as accurate as cartridge revolvers, you do not have to be troubled with those pesky cartridge cases, and the smell of burned 3F in the morning is it's own reward. Having the correct size ball is crucial, lube is next, avoid anything petroleum based. Lubes made with bees wax and natural oils, like peanut oil. or olive oil are the best. Over powder wads can be made from almost any fibrous material, I have made them from leather saturated in lube.

Round balls are easy, conicals require a bit more effort, Lee makes some very nice rebated base bullets for percussion revolvers that work very well.

This is a discipline unto itself,but a lot of fun.. Here is a link to a video, some good tips to be found from this guys offerings..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiJ8GkTWQxw

[Stopsign32v]

15gr of black powder behind a 36cal ball reminds me of old cap guns when I was little. Wow, talk about no recoil. At first I was worried if the balls cleared the barrel.

[WheelgunConvert]

Don't use KY jelly as a lube. I tried that once a looooong time ago. It's too thin....one shot and all of it blows out of the chambers.

If they are still in business Blue & Gray products makes spit ball and spit patch that works just fine.

Isn’t that the intended purpose of that particular product?

[Stopsign32v]

Isn’t that the intended purpose of that particular product?

When I use KY it usually blows out my chambers after one shot. [smilie=w:

[fredj338]

Stop using fillers. Powder, over powder wad, grease, ball, shoot. No reason to use filler in a cap & ball. Just make sure whatever powder charge you have, the ball is seated firmly on top.

[jimb16]

I use 20 grains and no patch or wad. Just fill the rest of the cylinder with crisco. Doesn't matter if its a brass or steel .36 or .44. Load the same. But got the Walker .44 I go up to 35 gr with crisco. After all, it is a much bigger/heavier revolver. I get decent accuracy and soft fouling (but a greasy mess!).

[gwpercle]

Loading and shooting cap & ball revolvers is like skinning cats.... more than one way .
I narrowed my loading down to : powder / ball / grease over ball .... for simplicity . The powder flask had a measure / spout built in , balls carried in a belt pouch along with a tube of grease , another pouch carried caps . I tried to condense the amount of things I needed to carry around and loading steps to their absolute bare minimum . This is what works for me .
Gary

[LabGuy]

A set of Lee powder scoops is an easy way to figure out how much CoW to put over your given powder load. Once you figure out what your gun likes, you can modify a black powder flask/measure to the correct volume.