Lets talk BROWNING 71 LEVER ACTION 348 WIN

[DUKE NUKEM]

This looks like a smokin hot cartridge. Also looks to be cast bullet compatible.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/model71_images/compare_cart1.jpg

top - .30-30 Winchester
bottom - .348 Winchester

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/model71_images/71browning.jpg

Lyman #350482 255 gr.
IMR 3031 35 gr.
1798

.
IMR 3031 46 gr.
2217

.
IMR 4198 27 gr.
1661

.
IMR 4198 38 gr.
2096

*******************************


Lyman #350447 187 gr.
IMR 3031 35 gr.
1818

.
IMR 3031 47 gr.
2338

.
IMR 4198 25 gr.
1672

.
IMR 4198 35 gr.
2150

[DUKE NUKEM]

jacketed bullet - 200 gr. Winchester JSP - OAL 2.78"

powder & charge
velocity

IMR 4198 34.5 gr.
2100

IMR 3031 43 gr.
2200

IMR 4320 52 gr.
2470

IMR 4064 53.6 gr.
2535

The 2500 fps sounds very enticing.

[Naphtali]

Big "A":

As you are aware, I have my High Grade Browning M71 with components at sale. Since it hasn't yet sold, and the rifle I'm having made will not be ready this elk season, I'm using the Browning with cast bullets. My load is:

Hoch 215-grain FNGS (.349-inch diameter)

40 grains IMR 3031

CCI 200 primer

Winchester 348 case (2.245 inches)

OAL 2.735 inches

Chronograhed MV between 1867 and 1885 fps.

[DUKE NUKEM]

Yes that is an awesome rifle Naph but she way to pretty a gal for me to dance with.
I'm sending you a PM for a jingle anyway though.

[DUKE NUKEM]

Here is the link.
I would require the longer barrel though.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=34856

[870TC]

I shoot the RCBS 200 Grain flat nose gas check in my Browning-71, used 60 gr. of 4831 for 2050 fps. last time I loaded.

OR

The 200 grain Hornady, with 60 grains IMR 4350=2400fps, or 58 grains =2260fps.

[Nazgul]

I like my Browning M71. Found 300 250 gr jacketed from several sources so haven't pursued the cast bullets yet. I have a .348" mold on order from a group buy. Hope it is not too much longer.

Lots of fun.

Blooded it one day at the farm when a ground hog wandered across the range as we were talking. One shot, One kill. So to speak.

Don

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Duke, I've been using the Lyman #350482 in my Winchester 71 Deluxe since I originally purchased it new, in 1956. I don't know who's making .348 gas checks, but try to get Hornady-type crimp-ons. The long bullet extends back into the case, and I was having trouble with Ideal (Lyman) GC's falling off (I could hear them rattling around in the case).
If you can't get any, I'll be glad to send you some Ideals to try. I wonder if .35 cal checks could be swaged on?
Morgan

[DUKE NUKEM]

Duke, I've been using the Lyman #350482 in my Winchester 71 Deluxe since I originally purchased it new, in 1956. I don't know who's making .348 gas checks, but try to get Hornady-type crimp-ons. The long bullet extends back into the case, and I was having trouble with Ideal (Lyman) GC's falling off (I could hear them rattling around in the case).
If you can't get any, I'll be glad to send you some Ideals to try. I wonder if .35 cal checks could be swaged on?
Morgan

Thanks so much for the offer sir. I don't have one as of now but looking for somewhere in between a used Scratch and dent and a beater.
Naph has a really nice one but to nice to take into the woods at least for me. His would just hang on the wall with all it's beauty and splendor. lol

[Bullshop]

We have a nice selection of designs for the 348 Win. If you would rather just purchase them we have them.
If you are going to make your own I would suggest while your looking for checks get a custom sizer die made. Of the several win and browning rifles we have tested here boolits of .350" to .351" diameter are by far the best.
BIC/BS

[Scrounger]

I could well be wrong but I've always been of the opinion that somebody at Winchester goofed when they designed the .270 Winchester, that they were trying to come up with a 7MM but got their bore and groove dimensions mixed up and ended up with the .270. Do you suppose the same thing happened with the .348 Winchester, that it was supposed to be a more standard .35 caliber using .358 bullets? Or maybe it was for the purpose of using tooling left over from the 1907 rifle in .351 Winchester? Makes you wonder...

[square butte]

Wonder if anyone ever considered or did a custom, .348 Win necked up to .358?

[pdawg_shooter]

better yet a 348/358 AI !

[Bullshop]

Well its rather complicated when you think about it. You cant just rebore a 348 barrel to 358" because your not taking out enough to clean up all the origonal rifling. The only alternative is to rebarrel. Many smiths or barrel makers will no install barrels on lever guns because of all the fitting the needs to be done. There are multiple dove tailes for sights and hanging hardware for forend and mag tube. There is also some milling to be done for the mag tube to fit the underside of the barrel. Then you have to match the origonal taper so all hardware fits the new barrel.
At first that conversion seems simple and logicle but when looked into the greater cose is what will stop mpst conversions. Most people that are going to spend the $ will go to something far differant in performance than the origonal cartridge.
When you consider that the 358 win cartridge will outperform the 348 win by a long shot and in a much smaller lighter package most will loose interest in a 348/358 wildcat and just buy a browning blr in 358.
In other words the only gain to that conversion is cost. Will you save enough by going to the more common 358 gas checks to cover the cost of the conversion? That will take a lot of shooting.
BIC/BS

[Jon K]

All this talk of a wildcat............just make it a 45-75.

Jon

[square butte]

Well, it was fun thinkin about it for 10 or 15 minutes.

[DUKE NUKEM]

Well its rather complicated when you think about it. You cant just rebore a 348 barrel to 358" because your not taking out enough to clean up all the origonal rifling. The only alternative is to rebarrel. Many smiths or barrel makers will no install barrels on lever guns because of all the fitting the needs to be done. There are multiple dove tailes for sights and hanging hardware for forend and mag tube. There is also some milling to be done for the mag tube to fit the underside of the barrel. Then you have to match the origonal taper so all hardware fits the new barrel.
At first that conversion seems simple and logicle but when looked into the greater cose is what will stop mpst conversions. Most people that are going to spend the $ will go to something far differant in performance than the origonal cartridge.
When you consider that the 358 win cartridge will outperform the 348 win by a long shot and in a much smaller lighter package most will loose interest in a 348/358 wildcat and just buy a browning blr in 358.
In other words the only gain to that conversion is cost. Will you save enough by going to the more common 358 gas checks to cover the cost of the conversion? That will take a lot of shooting.
BIC/BS


So you have one for sale?

[Morgan Astorbilt]

The .348 Win. wasn't a mistake, it's an improved version of the .33 Win. used in their 1886, the Mod. 71 being an improved '86. I had a second, standard '71 that I re barreled to .450 Alaskan. Sold it off to buy a Remington 40XB, but kept the .348., which I bought as a teen ager, and was my first deer rifle. If memory serves, it cost all of $135, but that was back when a 94 cost about $65. It was a choice between the .348, and the just brought out .358Win. Savage 99.

I was making $40/wk., and paid it off $10 a week every payday. The gun store owner used to let me handle it a while, and put it back in the rack. It was a hell of a long six months, let me tell you. Builds character, I guess.
Morgan

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I have a M71 in .348 and have been loading for it for many years. I've been using Lyman mold #350482, a 250 grain round nose in front of 40 grains of IMR 3031. It gives something between 1800 and 1900 fps and kicks a bit more than a 30-06. It is pretty accurate for a .348 and shoots 3.5 inch groups at 100 yards. There's plenty of muzzle energy for hunting; a 250 grainer moving at around 2000fps will give that. Jacketed bullets in the 200 grain bracket can be driven a lot faster if you need that. As stated the M71 was the improved version of the 1886 with the 33 Win, and the .348 was an improved version of the 33. There have been a number of conversions used/done on the .348, including the .30-.348 with the case being necked to .30 cal; there was also a 35-.348 which was the most efficient of all the conversions; a .40-.348 and a .450-.348. These were all based on the Ackly Improved .348. If you are looking for "something that really smokes" the last number....the .450-.348 is pretty close to the .458 Win Mag and it was known for tearing the magazine tube off of the rifle unless a special brace/fixture was set up to keep the magazine in place. There was also the .450-.348 which was not built on the Ackley design and had slightly reduced ballistics. Finally a .50 Alaskan was developed...based on the .348 case blown out to straight walled shape. This version is very popular. You can rest assured that it is more than adequate for dangerous game and that it recoilwise it would make a flincher out of the Statue of Liberty. In sum, it is well built powerful rifle that handles cast as well as jacketed bullets and is a classic in its own right. LLS

[missionary5155]

Someone must have made a .375-348 along the way.. that would be my choice.

[Beau Cassidy]

I love the .348 shooting cast bullets. I whacked my first elk with a 350477 at about 75 yards. DRT using 50/50 ww/Pb a few years ago. I don't have the load right in front of me but it was probably with Varget. My proudest moment because the guide told me not to bring it because I wouldn't get a shot with it. Why would you want to neck it up? It is a heck of a round as is.

[Bullshop]

I once had a 375/348 imp on a 71 but didnt like it. There were no existing molds that were a good fit, that is having the crimp groove located correctly to feed and not have the gas check seated below the neck. It was built by Dale Storey and a nice rifle but it went byby after a short time.
By far my preferance over that in a 375 wildcat was on a siamese mauser chamberd for a 375 Kraig imp. You wouldnt believe how close that one came to reaching factory H&H performance.
BIC/BS

[Morgan Astorbilt]

When you consider that the 358 win cartridge will outperform the 348 win by a long shot and in a much smaller lighter package most will loose interest in a 348/358 wildcat and just buy a browning blr in 358.

BIC/BS

I hate to disagree, but if you are talking jacketed bullets, here are the published Winchester factory ballistics for both cartridges, taken from a 1965 Shooter's Bible.

.348Win.

............... Velocity..........ME
.348Win.
150gr.........2890fps....... 2780
200gr.........2530fps....... 2840
250gr.........2350fps....... 3060

.358Win.
200gr.........2530fps........ 2840
250gr.........2250fps........ 2810

The .348 250gr. blows away the .358. Too bad Winchester dropped everything but the 200gr., But Barnes took up the slack with their own 250gr. FN bullets. A bit pricey, but I've had good results with them. This case does very well with heavier bullets, that's why the popularity of the .450 Alaskan, and other large caliber .348 based wildcats.

Morgan

[Steve]

Yes I like the model 71 Winchesters, and I am looking forward to recieving my 348 group buy mold. Here are some pictures that compair a 200 gr. Hornady and a 411 Strieby (Ron Strieby) and a 185 gr. cast from Herters 348190 for me by another member of this forum (Hornet) who shoots at our club. Anyone who has a mold for a 348 that they would be willing to part with, pm me.

http://i36.tinypic.com/126ah68.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/2zdwqqu.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/yfn5u.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/25z0c3n.jpg

[SLAUGHTER 96]

I noticed you folks were talking about the Win. .348, and that someone mentioned the Lyman 350447 mold, and I thought that someone might have a mold for that bullet, or know where I might find one. I'm not loading for the .348, it's just that that's the closest thing I can find that will fit an old Schuetzen rifle I have. I'm trying to determine if the bore is good enough to shoot straight, so I don't want to get into custom molds just yet.

What I'm looking for is a bullet about .349 or .350, at 25 or 30 to 1 alloy, and less than 185 grains. Is there any help? Is there even some one who does custom casting that would have that mold available?

Slaughter 96

[Naphtali]

I noticed you folks were talking about the Win. .348, and that someone mentioned the Lyman 350447 mold, and I thought that someone might have a mold for that bullet, or know where I might find one. I'm not loading for the .348, it's just that that's the closest thing I can find that will fit an old Schuetzen rifle I have. I'm trying to determine if the bore is good enough to shoot straight, so I don't want to get into custom molds just yet.

What I'm looking for is a bullet about .349 or .350, at 25 or 30 to 1 alloy, and less than 185 grains. Is there any help? Is there even some one who does custom casting that would have that mold available?

Slaughter 96Rather than obtain a mold that's almost what you seek, go to Mountain Molds web site http://www.mountainmolds.com/. Here you have online software to create your own mold. Some things you should be aware of:

1. Neither software nor the owner-mold maker will allow you to create an unacceptable mold.

2. You can have the mold drop your bullet at precisely the diameter you want, sizing being minimal or none.

3. My shooting partner has a bazillion molds -- LBT, RCBS, Hoch, and obscure top-flight black powder molds for his 1000-yard rifle. He has bought nine Mountain Molds products in the last four months. According to him, these are the most precise molds he owns, with lowest run out. And he has three more molds on order.

[Bullshop]

Slaughter96
Yes Sir there is a custom service based right here at castboolits, its The Bull Shop at the bottom of this page.
We have that mold and can do any alloy you want. Not sure if we have a .349" die we might but I am sure we have a .350" and a .351".
PM me if you still need help.
BIC/BS

[JFE]

The 348 is a bit of an oddball size but once you tool up for the calibre you can do pretty much everything with cast. Its accurate and powerful.

I originally bought mine in the early 90's as project rifle and never ended up using it. I bought something else instead and was in the throes of trading it out but decided to give the calibre a real go. I'm glad I did and it really shines with cast.

There are a couple of things I dont like about the rifle. I think the lever loop is a little too abruptly curved and the point of the comb is too far forward for me. The comb position of the early long tang Winchester M-71's was better. It could also do without the tapered locking lugs - I much prefer the parallel sided lugs of the 1886. The tapered lugs tend to pop open at the slightest hint of pressure but this may be a good thing. The Brownings are very solidly built and are a quality reproduction. It is probably the most accurate levergun I have. You wont be disappointed if you buy one.

Joe

[KSCowboy]

Hey where can I get a .350 sizing die for my Lyman sizer?

[JFE]

I bought a 0.349 sizer from RCBS that turned out to be 0.350. IIRC Buffalo Arms lists one.

[johnly]

I noticed you folks were talking about the Win. .348, and that someone mentioned the Lyman 350447 mold, and I thought that someone might have a mold for that bullet, or know where I might find one. I'm not loading for the .348, it's just that that's the closest thing I can find that will fit an old Schuetzen rifle I have. I'm trying to determine if the bore is good enough to shoot straight, so I don't want to get into custom molds just yet.

What I'm looking for is a bullet about .349 or .350, at 25 or 30 to 1 alloy, and less than 185 grains. Is there any help? Is there even some one who does custom casting that would have that mold available?

Slaughter 96

There's a .350 Lyman 450 die for sale on ebay right now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/LYMAN-RELOADING-SIZING-DIE-350-CAL_W0QQitemZ270316584830

John