Bottom pour vs ladle

[idahoron]

I have been using a Lee production pot for some time. I decided to pour some today but I wanted to try my RCBS ladle. The Mould I have been using is a Lee C-501-440-RF. This mould has been throwing 456 grains with soft lead. I used the ladle and got mostly 460 grains. Is this normal? I want them to weigh 456 gr but man the 460 gr bullets have sharper edges and look great. My rifle sights are set for 456 gr I wonder how much the extra weight will affect the point of impact?
Ron

[44man]

None at all but accuracy will be better with better boolits. Bottom pouring those large boolits is not filling the mold right. You have layers and voids plus unfilled edges. A 4 gr difference means the bottom poured boolits are bad.
When you tip the mold and ladle up together, hold the ladle for a count so the boolit pulls all the molten lead it needs from the ladle, NOT the sprue.

[Yance]

Ron;

I've found that the only way I can get really "good" BIG booilits (500+gr) is ladle casting. Weights are much more consistant, finish is MUCH better, and as you've noticed bases come out much better.

"Contact pouring" with the ladle spout resting in the sprue hole keeps the same consistent "head pressure" to push out the air in the cavity, plus you have a huge amount of ally from which to draw down as the boolit starts to cool.

Bottom pour pots are great for multi cavity mould for smaller rifle and pistol booilts. Just make sure your ingots are as clean as you can make them. I have a Lee Pro IV, two SAECO 24(?)'s and a Lyman 61, each with different alloys, and all can be used for "dipping" when I choose.

If I had to start all over I'd probably go with Lee's Pro 20. Besides being a flow adjustable bottom pour it's large enough to ladle from easily.

My 2¢

[shotman]

I will put my 2$ in if you have a smaller bottom pour that dont have a good clearence then you need to ladel pour in the larger boolits. I had an old Lyman till it died. I got a Lee pro20 it has a 4in clearence. I can set the big 6 cav 300gr 44 on bottom and run a silver stream direct in the holes. Very good casts and very little sprut. It also makes a very good HP. shotman

[SCIBUL]

I'm a fan of the ladle technic ! I noticed (a long time ago) that I get better bullets with the use of the ladle. I thing that when you take the molden metal with it it must oppose the thermal stream in the pot. This plus the fact that the filling of the mold is complete gives a better finish of the boolit and more consistent weights.

[Naphtali]

You have identified ladle casting as superior to bottom pour for large bullets. When ladle casting these "large bullets," does it make a significant difference in quality/uniformity were the die a high-grade aluminum OR iron?

[pdawg_shooter]

I have plugged the spout on all my pots. I always get better bullets with a ladle.

[montana_charlie]

Well!
I am glad to see that this long-standing bone of contention has finally been put to rest.

The forum manager could probably free up a ton of storage space if he found and deleted all of those old arguments...err...discussions.
CM

[idahoron]

I am pouring these pure lead 500 S&W bullets for my son's TC Renegade. I paper patch them, and they have been shooting great. All I can say is I went back and looked at bullets I made with the bottom pour, and I compaired them to the bullets I just made with the ladle. The ladle poured bullets have better edges on the grease rings. I am sure that is where I am getting the extra weight.
Like I said the lighter bullets were shooting great. I hope the heavier bullets shoot as good. Most of all I hope it doesn't change the point of impact much for his sights. My son's deer hunt opens in a couple weeks. Ron

[runfiverun]

hell i can't tell the difference between 200 and 230's in my 45 acp.
if he can tell the diff in 4grs weight, he can shoot for a living.

[John Boy]

My rifle sights are set for 456 gr I wonder how much the extra weight will affect the point of impact?
Ron, 456gr sight setting at what range?
Under 500yds, a 4 grain difference usually makes no difference unless you are a bullseye shooter and the difference will be small.
With the same powder column, shooting 500 to 1000yds will only change the MOA by an inch or two.

To prove the difference, run a trajectory table using 456 and 460gr's out to 1000yds. You will see the ballistics coefficient, fps and MOA change some but the MOA change will not be feet

If you are really concerned - increase the powder charge for the 460gr bullets

[crowbeaner]

The reason your ladle poured boolits are heavier is that there are no voids. The diameter of the hole in the ladle is about 3x the diameter of the pour spout; with the Lee maybe 2x. The rush of lead into the cavity pushes out the air. I always pour my big boolits and slugs with the ladle. I can sling 3 per minute with a Lee 1 oz. key drive mould and a good rythym. I also pour my round balls with the dipper. That 4 grain difference won't matter as long as the alloy is the same.

[idahoron]

Ron, 456gr sight setting at what range?
Under 500yds, a 4 grain difference usually makes no difference unless you are a bullseye shooter and the difference will be small.
With the same powder column, shooting 500 to 1000yds will only change the MOA by an inch or two.

To prove the difference, run a trajectory table using 456 and 460gr's out to 1000yds. You will see the ballistics coefficient, fps and MOA change some but the MOA change will not be feet

If you are really concerned - increase the powder charge for the 460gr bullets

Thanks to all. John this rifle has a lyman 57 SML peep. It is sighted in in 50 yard increments out to 200 yards. I didn't want to redo all of the sighting in.
I did run the numbers and it says it is the same. 4 grains it looks like should not change anything at least by the ballisitcs program. Again thanks guys. Ron

[Bret4207]

I prefer a ladle and frosty boolits. Always get nice sharp edges and no wrinkles with HOT alloy and a ladle.

[idahoron]

I got the chance to test the difference 4 grains make. I was surprised at what happened. The gun was sighted in for 456 gr bullets. I shot at 150 yards and it hit about 3" high. I shot at 200 and it was about 4" high. Do you think the tighter fit would have caused the pressure to build a little more makeing it hit higher?
One thing I do think is the 460 gr bullets are more accurate. We started to shoot milk jugs after I shot the target and we were hitting the milk jugs easly out to 200 yards.
Ron

[mto7464]

I now ladle all the boolits I want to shoot well at ranges. The plinkers and pistol boolits I still bottom pour. Much better boolits with the laddle, less rejects so time wise it is aobut the same.

[longbow]

I'm with the ladle guys!

I've been casting 40 years and for a short period had an electric bottom pour furnace. I found it more trouble than is was worth.

I went back to and am still using a 25 lbs. plumber's pot and a ladle that holds about a lb. of molten lead ~ not a Lee ladle or Lyman dipper, I like the big open ladle.

Different strokes but that's what works for me.

Longbow