Help needed with large 45 bullets

[DragoonDrake]

I throw myself at your mercy once more. I have already read many of the forums/posts here.

First I am casting a Lee 2-cav 500gr .459dia spire point. I have smoked the mold with a butane lighter. I have warmed this mold up by dipping it in the lead and also letting it sit on top. I have bottom poured out of my lee 20lb pot, as well as ladle poured. I have tried cool alloy, hot mold; hot alloy, hot mold; and most places in between. I have tried 50/50 lino/lead; I have tried 20-1 lead/tin. Nothing seems to work with this mold. I get pour band fillout and a layered look to the bullets as well. I have tried the alloys with my smaller 45 molds and 357 molds and have had no problem.

Is there anything I am missing; just time and perserverence; any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance

Adam

[Marlin Junky]

What kind of results are you getting when the melt is stabilized at 800F and you are ladle pouring from an RCBS ladle?

MJ

[missionary5155]

Here in Peru up in the mountains (I live at 8000+) when this occurs some people call in the local (loco) Shamin who does his rituals with smoke and feathers....
Never give up.. Measure the SPRUE hole... I bet-cha it is to small for that abundant cavity. I am coming to the conclusion that the old SAECO molds cast so well because of great machining and HUGE SPRUE holes.
Try all the above... if no success.. get out the drill and add 50% to that sprue hole. Remember to leave the NEW hole with that nice bevel... Be sure to clean off the underside of the plate after drilling...
Then there are vent lines... but start with the simpler stuff...

[James C. Snodgrass]

I use that mold a good bit . I can't recall any problems filling out . You may have to increase the venting some . I do water quench mine if I don't they tend to slump . As far as venting goes I've used a single cut file laid on it's side it gave me about 20-25 lines per in. I put the mold in a vise and drew the file on edge ever so gently across the face of the block . I know that a bunch of guys will flip at the idea of a file to a mold but if it won't fill out it's not a mold to me just a $20.00 paper weight, And if you get it right it will be a good mold that works . James[smilie=1:

[GabbyM]

First have you boiled the blocks in detergent water? To get the oils leached from the metal.

I've only a few Lee Aluminium moulds but they were all a pain to get cleaned up to cast a smooth bullet. After a good cleaning expect to cast poor bullets for an hour just for fun.

Keep the spur plate fairly loose to help avoid gauling.

[mooman76]

Do you have a ladle big enough that you are pouring in one trip to the melt? If not you need to get one. You may have to clean the mould real good and try again.

[sundog]

Lee-ment the mold. Remove the sprue plate, drill and tap a set screw to hold the sprue plate screw. Open the sprue holes to 5/32, hand chamfer and smooth finish, hone the under side of the sprue and all the edges that cross the block tops. Be sure there are no burrs around the sprue holes. Wash everything with coleman camp fuel, brakes parts cleaner, whatever. My best boolits from Lee molds usually are with a light smoke of wood stick match. Chamfer block top edges with a fine stone, including very lightly on the top mating edges to make a new vent line - easy, it doesn't take much. Check all alignment pins, bars, and valleys, and deburr/smooth as necessary. Lube lightly (and the sprue plate screw). I like to color the sprue plate (both sides) and block tops with a carpenter pencil, but Bull Plate works purdy darn good, too. Opening the sprue plate with a gloved hand is a lot easier on aluminium molds than beating with a stick. While casting, make sure you close the blocks slowly to assure correct alignment. I usually lay the blocks on my tapping stick (used only on the handle hinge pin to get sometimes sticky boolits to release), and close the handles while the blocks slide across the stick to assure even closure. Lee molds are not as durable as mehanite type molds, but with proper care they will last a lifetime.

edit to add: in some instances the blocks do not ride freely on the handles, usually due to burrs. Sometimes a tool such as a dental pick can be used to remove an offending burr. In the most extreme instances the block(s) must be dismounted to fix. This means removing the crimp holding the pin and then figuring out how to crimp it back in again. The worst I have ever had required drilling a very small hole from the top of the block to drive the pin out. Once the handle and block slot was cleaned up and reassembled it worked fine, even with the hole running down through the mold. Point is, do everything you can to make the mold work. If you mess it up, they are not all that expensive. btw, you won't mess it up if you go slowly, and if you have to replace it, the next one might work better. Gotta love (or hate) those Lee molds!

[Bass Ackward]

Corky gave you a nice detail. Good chance your pot is the problem. Lead flow is too slow. But 400 grains and up is my cut off to begin ladling. Helps to open the hole in the ladle too.


The other thing I might add is cheat.

Before you do all that stuff, heat rises. So pour the cavities and then rotate the mold upside down after the sprue hardens and hold it there for awhile. Allow the heat to travel down in the blocks.

Can negate the need to do all that other stuff sometimes.

[30yrcaster]

I cast large 45's but not from that mold. 2 things I found must do with large molds.

Bottom pour - must put the mold/sprue plate up against the pot spout otherwise the lead will cool and wrinkle as it fills the mold. Hold it there a few seconds til the lead wants to come out then pour a sprue.

Ladle - Must use the RCBS or Lyman type by making contact with the mold. Tilt the mold sideways, put the ladle up against the sprue plate then tilt up so the lead runs into the mold. I then hold it there for a count of 5 then pour a sprue. The ladles that you pour into the sprue also cool as it's pouring in. Also, if I tilt slowly like I see in many directions, I get swirls. I tip it up immediatly after making contact.

These are 2 things I found which may be different from others but unless I do it this way I have the exact problems you're describing. I just casted postells for 1hr 45min this morning with a ladle just as I described and did a total of 223 with only 3 bad ones. Didn't weigh them but inspected each one.

[DragoonDrake]

Bass Ackwards, I did try that.
Mooman I have a 3 oz ladle from rotometals.
Gabby I did not boil the blocks, that will be next; but I have other smaller lee molds that throw perfect bullets on the get.

Since i don't have a full tool shop at hand right now, it will be a little harder to lee-ment the block sundog, but next time I go to work; if the problem is still insisting on existing, then the block will go with me.

Thank you all very much for your advise and help

Adam

[runfiverun]

clearing the mold out usually just involves pouring a boolit putting a screw into the base
adding some polish [toothpaste] and rotating the boolit in the closed mold slowly.
this just cleans up the high spots in it.
but with the wrinkles you describe ,i would clean it thoroughly,check your top venting.
get your lead and mold hotter, and fill it faster.
all stuff you can do right at home.

[DragoonDrake]

thank you all
I opened the sprue hole, heated the alloy a little, and cleaned the mold again.

I am getting perfect bullets in shape and filling, just a little frosted; but I am okay with that at this conjecture in time, that i can fix later.

Thank you all again

Adam

[leftiye]

Nothin to fix! that's where you get the best boolits, just a little hotter than shiny. Good on ya! (I was gonna second them suggestions about cleaning, Lee uses some muy stoopid oil on their finished blocks, and It's a big porblem until it's gone)

[mooman76]

Frosting just helps the lube stick better!

[DragoonDrake]

I have not loaded cast bullets for the 45-70 gov yet, can I tumble lube them or should I use the lubriszier? I have yet to actually use that machine, all of my other casts come out perfect for the 45colt and ruger blackhawk, so i tumble lube or pan lube.

Thanks again

P.S. I spent about 2.5 hrs casting this afternoon and got 270 good (great) boolits. I can not wait to shoot these.

Adam

[mooman76]

You can lube either way. Good deal, it's always good when a plan comes together!

[TAWILDCATT]

Am I lucky ordo I do something right,I have 15 Lee molds some single some double and some 6 cavity and not one has given me trouble.I have used a number of brands,so may be 60 ys experiance has helped.:coffee:[smilie=1: