Best Way to load a flint lock for accuracy

[GregLaROCHE]

I have a French flint lock model 1777 produced in 1815. I cleaned it up a little before test firing it maybe twenty times. Everything seemed to hold together, so I have completely disassembled it and put it back in the best working condition possible.

I now want to start shooting it and get the best accuracy possible from it. What are your opinions on how to load it? It’s .69 cal. I’m not so interested in how much powder as much as patching and size of round balls to use.

Some people talk about putting in cream of wheat after the powder. Some say just spit on the patch while others say grease it. How thick should patches be? Can I make them myself, or is it best to buy them ? What is cutting off the patch at the muzzle ? How hard should I have to force the ball down the barrel.

Please give me all your ideas. I’m looking for the best accuracy I can get. Not just bringing home meat.

Thanks

[Adam Helmer]

Greg,

There are many savvy muzzleloaders on this site. Just to be clear: You have a smoothbore .69 caliber shooting Balls (bought, or home cast?). What is the range of your powder charge and what patch are you using?

I have a .50 smoothbore Hawken flinter that holds the bullseye at 100 yards with my accuracy powder charge and .010" lubed patch.

I suggest you spend a fun day at the bench with various powder charges, different patch thicknesses and one or two balls to see what serves you best. Keep good notes of both the Good and Bad loads to prevent reinventing the wheel in the future. I have found both 25 and 50 yards adequate distances for initial range testing. Does your old French musket even have a rear sight?

Adam

[CraigWilcox]

Greg, I know of no one who uses cream of wheat mixed with their black powder. I use FFg powder for everything I shoot, .45, .50, and .54.
Patches are FUN! You are right, some spit! Actually many guys just keep the patch in their mouth and let the saliva moisten the patch. Most use some sort of lubricating material - I use beef or buffalo lard mixed with a little bear oil. Others use so many different things that you wouldn't believe me. Go to American Longrifles Forum, and put "patch lube" in the search block!
I use heavy linen for patches, as I happen to have a lot of it, and it works for me. It measures .014, and holds up well. I cut a strip about 1.5" wide off the bolt of linen, roll it loosely, then dip it into the warm patch material. Squeeze as much as you can out of the roll of linen, then let it cool. In use, put the end of the roll over the muzzle, push the ball (usually ,005 under bore diameter) down just below the muzzle, and cut off the end of the roll. ALWAYS remember to put powder in first. You will not be the first or the last to "dry ball"! Seat it on the powder firmly, remove the ramrod, prime the pan, and you are good to go!
Take several types of patch materials with you, along with some different lubes, and go spend a day at the range. You will thoroughly enjoy yourself, and learn more about your firearm.
Craig

[mazo kid]

What Craig said. Lots of us use pillow ticking which is available in differing thicknesses. Use any tightly woven material, linen, ticking, denim. And don't go overboard on your powder load. Heavy charges don't often end up being the most accurate. I would start at 70 grains and then work up in 5 grain increments. You will find the load your gun likes.

[GregLaROCHE]

What I’m not sure of is how to calculate the size of the ball and the thickness of the patch. If the bore is .69 and I use a patch, the ball needs to be a smaller diameter, doesn’t it? How hard should I need to push to start the ball and patch and push it down to the bottom of the barrel?

I plan to buy a mold and need to figure out what size to get. Is there any way to size a round ball? Can you slug a barrel and pull out the slug with a ball extractor? Does it help if I trim off the sprue?

Also, what about lubing the patch? Boolit lube, spit or what?

Thanks

[rancher1913]

if after starting the ball down the barrel you have to beat your ramrod to get the ball to the bottom, you've got to big a ball. you should be able to feel some resistance as you push the ball down but you should not have to use brute force. some swear that placing the spru up gives the best performance but I think as long as you do it the same way each time you should get repeatable accuracy.

[arcticap]

Track of the Wolf sells many different diameter round balls.--->>> https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Search.aspx/4?search=round%20balls

You need to try the best that you can to measure your bore at the muzzle with calipers.
Then realizing the thickness of the patches that are available, the patch thickness gets doubled when loaded and added to the ball diameter. [see examples below]

When the patch has lube added to it, it can expand slightly.
When the patch is loaded with a short starter and then rammed it will compress slightly.

Then there needs to be a small allowance made for when the bore gets dirty with powder residue after a few shots unless you're swabbing in between shots.
And every powder brand and amount of the charge loaded produces a different amount of fouling, and which can also affect the loading difficulty depending on the amount
and type of patch lube.

You fired 20 times but you haven't mentioned what size ball and patch that you started with, or the type of patch lube, powder charge or brand of powder.
Or the level of difficulty that you had when both starting and ramming the balls.

For example, you can choose between a .662, .672, .675 or .678 round ball.
Knowing that a .015 patch is the most popular for a reason, you would double that figure and add that to the size of the patched round ball.

Those would produce a choice between loading a .662 + .030 = .692
A .672 + .030 = 0.702
A .675 + .030 = 0.705
A .678 + .030 = 0.708

These can be adjusted by switching to either a .010 patch or an .018 patch since these are commercially available sizes.
The patch will compress, the patch should be lubed, Bore Butter is probably the most popular.
A .010 patch has more possibility of burning through or tearing when rammed through powder fouling, depending on the powder charge amount.
But both of them could still work.
It's a matter of trial and error to see which works better in your bore and suits your expectations of loading difficulty.

So what PRB combination have you loaded so far?
Notice that the balls in the examples are all smaller than your stated bore diameter and lubed patches can compress.
An old bore from 1815 may be even more worn and larger, so a slightly thicker patch and larger ball may be more desired to help contain the gases when fired.
But that's purely a guess.
Also, if the muzzle is more worn than the rest of the bore [or vice versa.] it may not provide the correct bore dimension when measured.
I hope that this helps and please provide some feedback about the questions I've asked so others can also help explain the possible options to you.

For comparison, a modern TC .56 Renegade smooth bore would typically be loaded with a .550 ball and .015 patch.
It's a tight load but very accurate and shoots as well as nearly any rifle at 50 yards.
But you would need to know how to use both a short and a long starter before ramming with your ramrod.
And some may even choose to use a little plastic or wood mallet to tap the ball in with to get it started down the first 4 - 8 inches of the bore before ramming.

[bedbugbilly]

Your first job is to measure your bore. While it is supposed to be a 69 smoothbore - is it? On a rifle, you could slug it but for a quick check, use a pair of digital calipers and get as deep in to the bore as possible as the bore may have muzzle wear from use - especially with a iron ramrod.

Good advice already given . . .

As an example - I have a .62 smoothbore flint Fusil-de-Chasse. (same as a 20 gauge). It's a smoothbore so don't expect the same accuracy as you would get with a rifle but with the right combination of load, ball, lube and patch - you can get good accuracy at reasonable distances. On my .62, I use pillow ticking as already mentioned and my own mixture of lube I've used for years. I have two molds for my .62 - a .610 and a .600 round ball. Why two? Because I use the .610 and spit patch between shots to remove as much fouling as possible between shots when I'm target shooting. I bought the .600 most to use when I used to hunt with the old girl. Some situations don't always allow for a spit patch between shots and with the .600 ball and the same pillow ticking patch, the smoothbore loads easily in spite of fouling.

You will probably be limited to what mods are available but .69 was a common military caliber. You also have to remember that your musket was designed for military service - Napoleonic tactics - i.e.. fairly close range, quick reloads and firing in to the ranks of the enemy - therefore - the ball sized used was smaller to be used with the paper wrapping of the cartridge - the smaller ball allowed for repeated loadings and firings even with fouling build-up as it was a whole different situation that taking single shots with a tighter fitting ball and linen patch/cotton patch you'd use for "civilian" use. That does not mean, however, that you can't use a correctly sized ball/patch for a tighter tolerance fit to the bore for what you want to do just as you would with any "civilian" smoothbore. Shop around to see what is available in a round ball mold as there should be some out there that will work well with your musket. You might want to purchase some balls - Track of the Wolf usually has a good selection or there are others as well - and try them in your particular smoothbore to see how they work - once you find the right size you can then purchase a mold.

Best of luck to you - sounds like a fun adventure!

[MrWolf]

That was some great advise folks. I am just starting down this road and the advise helps.

Ron

[Longknife]

Ron, I began shooting smoothbores with round balls back in the "80's. Here is what I found out: Historically, in a smooth bore, balls were not patched but wadding was used below and above the ball to hold it in place. You are better off shooting a .020 to .030 UNDERESIZED ball in a smoothbore. Lyman makes a .662 mold, perfect for your .690 bore! I shot a lot with the guys at Fort De Chartre who used this ball in their Charleville .690 muskets. I would start with 70 grains of FF. You can patch the ball, shoot bare ball, use wadding, or paper cartridges, what ever works out best for you! AND you CAN use Wheel weights to cast you balls! The most fun I ever had was winning the Fall woods walk at the Fort in about '85! My 4 man team were all armed with smoothbores and we rocked those targets with a barrage of round balls , loaded in paper cartridges. I did learn that if you dipped the ball end or a paper cart. into a stiff, melted BP bullet lube you could literally shoot all day! .....Good Luck!,,,,LK

[mazo kid]

Not all 20 gauge smooth bores are created equally; you will have to measure your bore or try to find different size round balls. My 20 gauge Trade Gun has a tight bore and patched .600" balls are too tight for anything but the first shot. On woods walks, I don't patch, just push the bare ball down the bore over a wad. As for accuracy, you will have a learning curve as to sighting, load, etc. I have a friend who is deadly with his 20 gauge Trade gun; routinely hitting gallon milk jugs at 100 yards off hand. I only wish I could do that!

[oconeedan]

A very large part of your accuracy, is getting the fastest ignition. I use 4F powder for the flash pan, and only fill it half full (try to have the level of powder at the flash hole, not covering it). Work a few grains into the flash hole with a sharp vent pick. If you don't mind modifying your old rifle, I "coned" the flash hole with a tiny ball bit in a dremel tool, the idea to get as much fire to the hole as possible.
Dan

[Bad Ass Wallace]

For ignition in my flinter I use 2.5gns of Wano 7A flashpowder. This powder is much finer than 4F and ignition time is as fast as a percussion cap!

[varsity07840]

I use a .662 ball and a .022 patch in my original flint 1816.

[scattershot]

Best accuracy for me was the tightest ball/patch combination you can get down the bore, with an overpowder wad of some type. WonderWads work well, if you can find them. Unfortunately, each barrel is different, particularly with something that old, so trial and error are the name of the game.

[GregLaROCHE]

The muzzle measures 0.696 . I bought this gun because it looked in good shape and was manufactured after Napoleon’s major campaigns. I’ve seen others that have been through wars and a lot look really bad. Many have barrels worn thin at the muzzle from loading lots of rounds with the steel ramrod.

The shots I fired were with .69cal. bare round balls. What was originally used. I was using FF and FFF to prime. I started with 40 grains, worked up to 70 and a few with a bit more at the end. It didn’t seem to recoil that much. I shoot 70 grains of BP with a 500 grain boolit in my .45-70 Marlin and I think it kicks a lot more. Maybe if I get a better seal with a patch, that might make a difference.

I didn’t shoot any paper targets, just an old post at ten and twenty yards. No problem going right through ten inches of pine.

A friend gave me a few smaller balls and patches he uses in his Pedersoli replica. The old flint in mine worked great for the twenty shots and then gave out. I’m waiting for another friend to bring me some flints back from a shoot he is going to this weekend. He told me to wait, so he could hand pick some for me, instead of just ordering of the internet.

It’s going to be interesting to see how it works. I hope to shoot some paper next week if all goes well.

Thanks for all this good information and please keep it coming.

Greg

[arcticap]

No one can decide how much loading difficulty that you want to deal with.

The example of the .56 Renegade smooth bore mention above - a .550 ball + .030 [for a .015 patch] = .580 - shows that a lubed patch can be
compressed by up to 2/3's of its original thickness in a clean smooth bore with considerable effort.
Which could also mean cleaning between each shot.
That's .020 of patch compression for a very tight load using a patch that totals .030 thick.

Theoretically, your gun should be able to fit any of the balls from Track of the Wolf into your bore with a .015 patch.

Only the amount of loading difficulty and bore wear along with experimentation will indicate with any certainty which balls that you should buy.

Also, regarding patches, a person needs to decide if they want to buy pre-lubed patches or dry patches which they can then lube themself.
The patches are sold dry, oiled or pre-lubed with Wonderlube.--->>> https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Search.aspx/1?search=patches
I buy dry patches and a tube of original TC Bore Butter [the equivalent of Wonderlube] and lube my own patches by hand and store them in zip lock sandwich bags.
That's my personal choice because I like Bore Butter.
It's compatible with black powder, and helps to keep fouling soft enough to push it back down into the breech while ramming the next shot.

When I lube my own patches I know that there is fresh lube on the patch and I can control the amount.
I also like that it has a higher viscosity to help keep patches from burning and it lubricates well to help with ramming.

I would try at least 2 different balls and 2-3 different patch thicknesses, .010, .015 and .018 pillow ticking.
Two .010 patches can always be doubled over to make a .020 patch.
A .010 patch and a .015 patch can be combined to make a .025 patch.

If Track of the Wolf sells .005 patches I would recommend to buy those too for combining with other patch thicknesses but I don't see any offered.
I prefer the pre-cut patches rather than to cut my own so I know how many shots that I have patches ready for.

A lot of folks like medium loading difficulty and obtain reasonably good accuracy at moderate distances.
There's no magic distance that a person needs to shoot targets at especially with a smooth bore without modern sights.
Whether it's 25, 35 or 45 yards should only be a matter of the shooter's preference as is everything else that I've described.
The rest is up to what you decide to buy and try.

If you have friends who are buying flints and giving you balls to use, are they also helping you out with advice?
Are you going to load with Goex, Old Eynsford, Swiss or another black powder?

[rfd]

to achieve maximum consistent accuracy for a specific muzzleloader means you will need to spend some time, effort and money on the ammunition, and pay careful attention to fouling control. for the most part, the serious muzzy target folks are loading tight, really *tight*. good luck, enjoy the ride.

[Hanshi]

Good advice on these posts. I'll just repeat and add a few things to think about. Being a smoothbore your gun has no rifling for the patch material to squeeze into. The ball should probably be about .020" smaller than bore diameter; some do well with larger and smaller, however. A smoothbore doesn't always need a tight prb fit for best accuracy. My gun is a .62 and I shoot a .600" lead ball with a .010" to .015" patch. The .015" patch is just "snug". Stick to 2F or even 1F powder; it's pressure doesn't peak quickly like 3F does. Avoid rifle-tight loads and put a patch under the prb if you get burned patches. If you can keep at least 3 shots on a paper plate at 40 yards, that's reasonable accuracy for a military smoothbore.

[GregLaROCHE]

What are people’s opinions on Swiss BP? Is it worth the extra cost. The members of my shooting club, that shoot muzzle loaders and are into serious competition, swear by it.

[rfd]

What are people’s opinions on Swiss BP? Is it worth the extra cost. The members of my shooting club, that shoot muzzle loaders and are into serious competition, swear by it.

only if you want the most consistent commercial black powder.

[northmn]

I built a 20 gauge "smooth rifle" which is a smooth bore with sights and a smaller rifle type lock. Lots of advice was good. Too heavy of patching damages the ball and makes them shoot inaccurately. I measured ball thrown by one mold and got another as the one was a few thousands off round. When I loaded I marked the ball such that I could load it the same way every time. Parting line from the casting up with the same side up. With the sights I could get about a 3" group a 70-75 yards. Weighed ball. Not a legal match gun but a fun knock around type gun. Used shot in it a bit also.
242865

[taco650]

Watch this, might have some good ideas for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhTgf2OjOrs&list=PLHljRs6NHyZkRHwj1K13YY_JCMEP5ebLs&index=28&t=0s

[taco650]

What are people’s opinions on Swiss BP? Is it worth the extra cost. The members of my shooting club, that shoot muzzle loaders and are into serious competition, swear by it.

Never tried it because my budget isn't flexible enough to afford it. I just got 5lbs of Grafs house brand 3f and its working just fine for my two .50 cal rifles and my 1860 Army .44. I also saved about $5 a pound by getting Grafs. Duelist1954 on youtube did a vide recently on his switching to Swiss from Goex, might be worth a watch...